Russia moves to enact anti-gay law nationwide

There are 20 comments on the Sunherald.com story from Jan 21, 2013, titled Russia moves to enact anti-gay law nationwide. In it, Sunherald.com reports that:

St. Petersburg and a number of other Russian cities already have similar laws on their books.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Sunherald.com.

“Ethically confused ”

Since: Feb 10

Culturally aware

#912 Feb 4, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound like a very good friend.
Freedom is individual, not collective. Many individuals are free. There are groups of individuals who are free. It is not the group that is free.
Do not worship the majority. The purpose of the group is to benefit the freedom of it's individuals. To perpetuate individual freedom. To protect it ... even from the group or part of the group.
To assert that an individual must be sacrificed for the group is the reasoning of Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin.
"The Group" is an idea, a mental construct; not a concrete.
A case can be made for limiting the freedom of one individual because of harm to another individual, but not to "the group" because it has no concrete reality. One must demonstrate harm to the freedom of an individual by another specific individual.
One cannot harm an idea, nor limit the freedom of an abstract.

Freedom is individual, not collective. Many individuals are free. There are groups of individuals who are free. It is not the group that is free.,,, They are free to express their ideas as long as it conforms to establish Cultural Norms. If an individual feels free to commit murder should he or she be allowed just because the individual feels that is so? The answer is of course No,,, Because society has determined that murder is wrong {It established a Cultural Norm} anything else is determined {and rightfully so} to be abnormal and in fact dangerous to a society.

Do not worship the majority. The purpose of the group is to benefit the freedom of it's individuals. To perpetuate individual freedom. To protect it ... even from the group or part of the group. As long as society agrees that it’s a freedom worth protecting. Just because a small but vocal minority screams that something should be accepted does not necessarily mean that it should be. It’s the individual’s responsibility to see that freedom is set. I will not sit back idly while a small group of people like yourself try to change a Cultural Norm just because you think it should be. This is not Slavery nor is it the right to vote, this is a life choice. You are trying to legitimize a choice that most find repulsive and disgusting. No one is stopping any one from a choice,, but forcing everyone to accept as normal is fundamentally wrong.

To assert that an individual must be sacrificed for the group is the reasoning of Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin.

"The Group" is an idea, a mental construct; not a concrete. That did not end very well at all.

A case can be made for limiting the freedom of one individual because of harm to another individual, but not to "the group" because it has no concrete reality. One must demonstrate harm to the freedom of an individual by another specific individual,,, No they do not,, One is considered normal and the other is not.

One cannot harm an idea, nor limit the freedom of an abstract.,,,But one can determine is a path is right or wrong. You speak of the abstract sir like it was a mist or a weightless entity,,, I see Freedom as much more than this,, Freedom is the souls right to breath. How can freedom be established and maintained when so many like your self are undermining its very foundations with poison and lies. Freedom only dies when good men do nothing. Abstract indeed!!!
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#913 Feb 4, 2013
Armoondie wrote:
In Russia, this freedom, of choosing a sexual orientation is being sacrificed to have healthier kids. To reduce a factor which harms the population growth.
Did you 'choose' your sex orientation?
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#914 Feb 4, 2013
Leonid-Rostow wrote:
<quoted text>You are confusing the sins and commandments.
It is a sin to break a commandment

“Ethically confused ”

Since: Feb 10

Culturally aware

#915 Feb 4, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you 'choose' your sex orientation?
Yes of course you do, you may be attracted to another man’s wife but you “Choose” to sleep with her,, You may also be attracted to a 16 year old girl but you “choose” to break the law and have sex with her. You do not do either because it is considered wrong and not normal. You are no different
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#916 Feb 4, 2013
Sticking your neck out wrote:
<quoted text> Yes of course you do, you may be attracted to another man’s wife but you “Choose” to sleep with her,, You may also be attracted to a 16 year old girl but you “choose” to break the law and have sex with her. You do not do either because it is considered wrong and not normal. You are no different
You're talking about sex activity
.
You don't even know what sexual orientation is!
.
This can mean only one thing:
.
You are asexual

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#917 Feb 4, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you 'choose' your sex orientation?
Gays are recruited to theirs by sexual molestation. The Catholic priesthood probably created most of them worldwide.

“Ethically confused ”

Since: Feb 10

Culturally aware

#918 Feb 4, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
You're talking about sex activity
.
You don't even know what sexual orientation is!
.
This can mean only one thing:
.
You are asexual
Is this your argument? Is this the best you can do? Best if you sharpen your pencils and gain some much needed perspective.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#919 Feb 4, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
You're talking about sex activity
.
You don't even know what sexual orientation is!
.
This can mean only one thing:
.
You are asexual
.

What does it take to make an imbecile such as ourself, to see the light, to see the truth, between right and wrong???

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#920 Feb 4, 2013
yourself
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#921 Feb 4, 2013
Joisey Abe wrote:
<quoted text>
Gays are recruited to theirs by sexual molestation. The Catholic priesthood probably created most of them worldwide.
Its funny how clueless homophobes come into Gay Chat Rooms to 'tell' gay people all about being gay
.
We already know all about being gay; we're the experts
.
So ask; don't tell
.
sugar
no one no where

Santa Barbara, CA

#922 Feb 4, 2013
why do people care if a person is gay or not? we should allow people to marry anyone or anything they want.
Happy Anniversary 1913

Pittsfield, MA

#924 Feb 4, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Its funny how clueless homophobes come into Gay Chat Rooms to 'tell' gay people all about being gay
.
We already know all about being gay; we're the experts
.
So ask; don't tell
.
sugar
So........what do you thing about post #923 and our special relationship and literal hijacking of this nation since 1913?
Can you imagine Catholics performing such special circumcisions and the outcry that would be sure to follow? These people, THAT'S RIGHT, THESE PEOPLE have had a significant role in leading this nation into a subversive and decadent toilet for decades.
This nation is in trouble, big big trouble! Fool!
Jay

Sherwood Park, Canada

#926 Feb 4, 2013
Alexey25 wrote:
<quoted text>
For once I agree with you. lol.
That manipulated comment would be a funny hack only if you could spell. It's actually fighting words to call someone a kid diddler, where I come from it would earn you a black eye. In your true style you write defaming comments strictly because your a world away from me. I guarantee you'd be curled up in a ball on the floor begging for a left hook after experiencing the right jab. Lol!

Ps. Good one on creativity, I never seen that coming.
Happy Anniversary 1913

Pittsfield, MA

#927 Feb 4, 2013
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed! Circumcision on babies is bad enough... It is genital multilation on little babies.
When the Jews are giving a Circumcision of genital multilation & then suck the blood out of a babies weiner in metzitzah b’peh .
Then it becomes completely sick disgusting molestation!
Even worse when babies get herpes from metzitzah b’peh .... These Rabbis defend their metzitzah b’peh !
Sick!
....
.....
......
....... Metzitzah b’peh needs to be banned Jews shouldn't have a right to have legal sexual molestation in the U.S!
This isn't a religious right!
Metzitzah b’peh is a criminal act of molestation abuse!
This country has become an absolute nightmare and I am terrified for the future of all of us. Between the fed, the wars, homosexuality being pushed upon us all, and a porous southern border benefitting democrats only, the national security of this country has been greatly jeapordized for decades. Yet if I, being white dare speak up these bastards label me a bigot, a racist, anti-semite, or just plain hateful. The democratic party, the party of subversion and decadence is a disgrace to humanity and to think that so many vote for them is deeply disturbing. Our souls were sold here in 1913 and if someone or something doesn't right this ship very soon we are all in deep trouble.
I admire your tenacity and just concerns especially regarding our special relationship with God's chosen people and the nightmare it has become. These people should be deported and isolated from the rest of the world. I need not have to tell you to keep up the good fight yet I do wish you peace and hopefully somehow someway common sense and the principles of morality will be restored here soon. I just don't see any MAN stepping up here in our country in the near future.
Thank you.
Peace.
Happy Anniversary 1913

South Hadley, MA

#933 Feb 4, 2013
Israel Land of Vampires wrote:
My Polish paternal Grandfather is actually from this area near EastHampton Ma.
My Polish paternal Grandfather was born on a farm in South Deerfield MA.
His Polish paternts came to the U.S in the 1800's!
He came down to Long Island New York... Met my Polish grandmother who was from Tarnobrzeg Poland.
Thus my Polish father & uncle were born!
My ip changes frequently and it is out of my control but yes my Grandfather on my mothers side was full blood Polish. I live in Berkshire County in a small town that has many good polish people that migrated to this area decades ago. As a young boy I went to many Polish picnics and Polka dances. Polish food is wonderful, luv me a good golumpki and or kapusta. Over the years our friends head to the city and bring home kishka as well. Pierogi's are awesome too. Polish people are some of the most dedicated hard working family orientated people I've ever known. There is certainly something to be said for being full blooded anything.
My other bloodlines consist or Irish, Italian, and Cherokee. Quite the mix eh?
Getting late, I'll keep in touch.
Thanks again.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#934 Feb 4, 2013
Armoondie wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you think of TSA? Phone conversations being recorded? Plans of having tight security at malls? That's sacrificing freedom (privacy) for security, which is going on in United States.
In Russia, this freedom, of choosing a sexual orientation is being sacrificed to have healthier kids. To reduce a factor which harms the population growth.
There is a great deal of resistance to the over-reachings of the "Patriot Act", and it is slowly being disassembled. THat you know about them at all is because we are fighting it. It was a reactionary mistake, and all but the most control-obsessed and paranoid object to it strongly. Our main problem with it is that they constitute "illegal search", a violation of the U.S. Constitution done without a specific Court Order and independent oversight.

Gay orientation is often express by erotic behaviors. It is NOT the behaviors themselves. The orientation cannot be taught, nor can it be learned. So it is not "harm" to the youth in general. Each child is born gay, or not. Gay orientation is the inner tropism to pair-bond with your own genotype as opposed to the opposite genotype. That's all. Restricting gay people, as such, has no impact on the general population of youth. Adolescent boys and girls may experiment with some form of erotic play and various partners, but they quickly discover what their true identity is. Thess experimentations are "homosexual" only in that they are engaging in erotic play behaviors with a member of their own sex. Of itself, it says nothing about their current or future orientation. Orientation is internal, emotional and intrinsic to their identity. A person is gay whether or not they engage in any erotic behaviors at all.

Concerning "homesexual" behaviors, name one. We'll examine it and see where that takes us. I think that you'll find that there are no specifically "homosexual" behaviors.

The problem is one of definitions.

I sense in your perspective that there ARE some real concerns for the youth, and for some threats to them.

Could it be alcohol, drugs, prostitution, gangs, etc?

These things do not necessarily have anything to do gay orientation. A person is gay or hetero whether or not a person has an addiction problem, is a prostitute or in a gang. Remove the prostitution, active addiction and gang influence and all you have is a gay or hetero child, one that has as their primary emotional makeup the propensity to pair-bond with their own or the other sex.

Are you not hetero whether or not you are having erotic relations, whether or not you are consuming alcohol, whether or not you are standing, sitting, smoking, working, sleeping, etc.? Your orientation, attraction and affection toward the opposite sex is a part of who you are. The same with gay people.

If you have specific examples of how gay people harm youth, or anyone, please let's discuss it. I want to understand your concerns. I am not interested in vague fearful imaginings, but real, concrete concerns.

Also, do you actually KNOW any gay people? Personally?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#935 Feb 4, 2013
Leonid-Rostow wrote:
<quoted text>You are confusing the sins and commandments.
If you have read Saul of Tarsus, then you know that sin comes from the Law. Is created by it.

(I don't agree with Saul, but that is what he wrote.)

Please, let's not go into this here. You don't have the studies necessary to avoid needless confusion.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#936 Feb 4, 2013
Sticking your neck out wrote:
<quoted text> ... They are free to express their ideas as long as it conforms to establish Cultural Norms. If an individual feels free to commit murder should he or she be allowed just because the individual feels that is so? The answer is of course No,,, Because society has determined that murder is wrong {It established a Cultural Norm} anything else is determined {and rightfully so} to be abnormal and in fact dangerous to a society ... As long as society agrees that it’s a freedom worth protecting. Just because a small but vocal minority screams that something should be accepted does not necessarily mean that it should be. It’s the individual’s responsibility to see that freedom is set. I will not sit back idly while a small group of people like yourself try to change a Cultural Norm just because you think it should be. This is not Slavery nor is it the right to vote, this is a life choice. You are trying to legitimize a choice that most find repulsive and disgusting. No one is stopping any one from a choice,, but forcing everyone to accept as normal is fundamentally wrong ... But one can determine is a path is right or wrong. You speak of the abstract sir like it was a mist or a weightless entity,,, I see Freedom as much more than this,, Freedom is the souls right to breath. How can freedom be established and maintained when so many like your self are undermining its very foundations with poison and lies. Freedom only dies when good men do nothing. Abstract indeed!!!
You have a very incorrect usage of the English word "Freedom". I have given the correct legal definition of the word as it is used in the US when it is discussed. It is tied to a body of history, philosophy and evolved political science, not just colloquial usage. Perhaps you should try a different word, otherwise we are "speaking at cross-purposes". We certainly aren't communicating.

Plato gives us that Socrates was always demanding of his students, "Define your terms". Of course. This is the beginning of logical reasoning, and is essential to it.

Are you acquainted with the terms "Logical Fallacy", "Formal Fallacy", "Informal Fallacy" and "Cognitive Bias"? They are essential to logical discourse and debate, and even scientific research.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#937 Feb 4, 2013
Joisey Abe wrote:
<quoted text>
Gays are recruited to theirs by sexual molestation. The Catholic priesthood probably created most of them worldwide.
That is false. It comes from the fraudulent writings of Paul Cameron. His writings have been rejected as false by the professional associations who oversee research in psychology and sociology. His methodology and analyses were declared to not confform to standard scientific protocols, and that his conclusions did not follow from the material provided. He has explicitly been called a liar by the Federal Court Judge who examined his work and heard expert testimony about it in a landmark case. It is an extremely rare occurrence in our Courts, for a sitting Justice to explicitly call the testimony and evidence of someone, even the person themselves, "a liar". The ONLY people who pay any attention to him in North America are fringe groups composed of religious extremists, some of whom are formally classed as "hate groups", and some as violent. In the U.S., such groups like to give themselves pleasant or positive-sounding names, have pretty websites, and use language that is socially acceptable or even honorable. But behind that mask is what they actually do. Spreading the fraudulent writings of Paul Cameron as truth is the merely the mildest of what they, and their followers do. These groups are on the FBI watchlist, and on the watchlist of The Southern Poverty Law Center which has been studying such groups and individuals for decades.

I have known a great many gay people. NONE of them were molested.

You need another source for your data.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#938 Feb 4, 2013
Sticking your neck out wrote:
<quoted text>Is this your argument? Is this the best you can do? Best if you sharpen your pencils and gain some much needed perspective.
You are engaging in "Conflation", a form of informal fallacy also know as the "Straw Man Fallacy".

You are saying that one thing is the same as another so that you argument will seem to work. We are saying that these things are different and separate cases.

You are also committing a list of other fallacies. Look up "Fallacy". It will change your life. I can provide some decent links to get you started, if you wish.

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