Gay concerns at Doncaster school reve...

Gay concerns at Doncaster school revealed

There are 58 comments on the Sheffield Star story from Jul 30, 2014, titled Gay concerns at Doncaster school revealed. In it, Sheffield Star reports that:

Some teachers are not happy talking in Doncaster's schools about gay issues, says a report by the borough's NUT.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Sheffield Star.

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“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#54 Aug 1, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
1. What you say would be true if homosexuality was the only subject available.
2. Anything but. Gay activists want to tell kids what to think, not how to think. There is no value in it and lying to kids was never an answer.
Look at you. When it comes to gay marriage you think that you are winning over the American people. The truth is that federal judges are taking state rights away. That's not the same.
Well, people skilled in jurisprudence are accepting our arguments for their compelling logic. It's people like you who've been taught NOT to think EVER who don't realize that.

And that denial thing of yours... Sad. We're not just winning judges. We're winning everywhere.

Since: Oct 10

San Francisco

#55 Aug 1, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't? As a parent myself it's important to know what kind of gay activist BS you people are trying to pull now. Those unhappy teachers get it.
Not even a nice try, Blundering. Only an idiot like you would pretend posting bigoted commentary somehow furthers your awareness of "gay activist BS." For someone who spends all his time being dishonest, you really should be better at disguising it by now.

Speaking of lies, you already said the kids you claim to have are grown, so the "as a parent" crap clearly doesn't apply. Of course you can reinvent them as young, but then how do you explain neglecting them so you can spend your life in a gay forum?

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#56 Aug 1, 2014
Wondering wrote:
Gay activists want to tell kids what to think, not how to think.
What exactly does this buzz-phrase mean? What kind of difference are you suggesting? You have to be clearer than just accusing people of some vague soundbyte. Explain how gay activists are doing this. Here is how I see the two approaches that you have described...

Teaching kids "what" to think: Human beings should not be villainized, demonized or marginalized for their physiological differences from the mainstream.

Teaching kids "how" to think: Human beings should not be villainized, demonized or marginalized for their physiological differences from the mainstream.

What is the difference? What ideas do YOU have for teaching kids "how" to think, which would NOT include teaching respect for diversity and an end to gay-shaming?

“Peace”

Since: Feb 08

Earth

#57 Aug 1, 2014
Secret Gay Agenda Revealed
&in dex=1&list=RDmTa9DfOnltA
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#58 Aug 1, 2014
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, people skilled in jurisprudence are accepting our arguments for their compelling logic. It's people like you who've been taught NOT to think EVER who don't realize that.
And that denial thing of yours... Sad. We're not just winning judges. We're winning everywhere.
I'm sure you meant whining, not winning.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#59 Aug 1, 2014
GoldenGator wrote:
Speaking of lies, you already said the kids you claim to have are grown, so the "as a parent" crap clearly doesn't apply.
I didn't know there was an age that you stop being a parent? What is it? How about the grand kids? I don't want to be a grandfather past the legal age.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#60 Aug 1, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
1. What exactly does this buzz-phrase mean? What kind of difference are you suggesting? You have to be clearer than just accusing people of some vague soundbyte. Explain how gay activists are doing this. Here is how I see the two approaches that you have described...
2. Human beings should not be villainized, demonized or marginalized for their physiological differences from the mainstream.
3. What ideas do YOU have for teaching kids "how" to think, which would NOT include teaching respect for diversity and an end to gay-shaming?
1. I've posted links to video clips, I've linked newspaper articles. What form of information would be easy for you to understand?
2. Agreed. No one is teaching kids that gays are evil. What to think about homosexuality shouldn't be taught to any kid against a parent's wishes. There should always be an opt out.
3. An anti-bullying program with zero tolerance for abusers is all that is needed. Gays are in the minority when it come to bullying. No kid should ever be afraid to go to school and his/her sexual identity is irrelevant.

Since: Oct 10

San Francisco

#61 Aug 1, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't know there was an age that you stop being a parent? What is it? How about the grand kids? I don't want to be a grandfather past the legal age.
Either you're deliberately changing the context or you're exceptionally stupid. Assuming it's the latter, I have good news for you. You can stop worrying about what the schools are teaching your kids when they're grown up, which is about age 18.

The education of the grandkids is their parents' responsibility, which is a good thing because if they really existed you wouldn't be able to tear yourself away from the gay forum long enough to pay any attention to them.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#62 Aug 1, 2014
Wondering wrote:
1. I've posted links to video clips, I've linked newspaper articles. What form of information would be easy for you to understand?
The form where you indicate that teaching kids not to disparage homosexuals amounts to teaching them "what" to think instead of "how" to think. Teaching kids that sexual orientation is not a valid grounds for ostracizing someone is not some kind of "agenda", it's a recipe for good social behavior.
Wondering wrote:
2. Agreed. No one is teaching kids that gays are evil.
Well, except for people who say things like "I have a big problem with this garbage being assigned reading".

I don't know what conclusion you think kids will reach when you refer to their identities as "garbage". You absolutely are teaching that gays are evil. You're just doing it without using the precise word "evil".
Wondering wrote:
What to think about homosexuality shouldn't be taught to any kid against a parent's wishes. There should always be an opt out.
But you don't think there should be an opt out if they're taught HOW to think about homosexuality? I don't see the difference. If you're teaching that respect can be offered regardless of a person's superficial differences, then that is teaching them BOTH "what" to think AND "how" to think. They're one and the same in this case.
Wondering wrote:
3. An anti-bullying program with zero tolerance for abusers is all that is needed.
It doesn't seem to have worked for you.
Wondering wrote:
Gays are in the minority when it come to bullying.
Sure they are. That's why such a huge percentage of homeless youths are gay.

You seem to think that bullying is only a schoolyard problem, limited to children. But some kids are bullied by adults, parents, teachers, clergy, and other trusted authority figures in society. You can't solve anything by leaving loopholes for the people who want to tell young children that the Creator Of The Entire Universe hates them. You don't paint a very good picture of including gays in your "zero tolerance" program when you quantify awareness of gay people as "garbage".
Wondering wrote:
No kid should ever be afraid to go to school and his/her sexual identity is irrelevant.
No, it's not irrelevant. You say that because your sexual identity allowed you to blend into the mainstream. Somehow you are devoid of empathy for the people who must struggle to fit in, who sometimes find it necessary to LIE about who they are just to keep their HOMES.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#63 Aug 2, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
The form where you indicate that teaching kids not to disparage homosexuals amounts to teaching them "what" to think instead of "how" to think. Teaching kids that sexual orientation is not a valid grounds for ostracizing someone is not some kind of "agenda", it's a recipe for good social behavior.
That is pure BS. You teach them that kids are kids and they all deserve respect. No need to categorize them, they are all kids. You want to take an elementary school classroom that is between 96% and 100% straight and feed them nonsense about homosexuality. You want to see straight families forced to have their kids participate in 'pride' events at school. You don't mess with other people's kids. Fortunately, when my kids were in elementary school I didn't have to deal with this. Homosexuals were never mentioned in school or at home. Totally neutral. If one of them came home with books like "Daddy's Roommate" or " King & King" that neutrality would have ended in a hurry. I would have then been forced to tell them about homosexuals, it wouldn't help your cause any.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#64 Aug 3, 2014
Wondering wrote:
That is pure BS. You teach them that kids are kids and they all deserve respect. No need to categorize them, they are all kids.
Yes, there is a need to categorize them. If students are not given a list of the categories where discrimination is inappropriate, then they will feel free to make their OWN categories of exceptions. We should be as comprehensive and exhaustive as we can about as many categories we can think of, so there can be no confusion about who should be included and excluded.

You seem to think that it will be enough for teachers to say "Bullying is bad! Treat everyone the same! No tolerance!" and kids will then fall into Utopian behavior patterns. You neglect to realize that many students are receiving contradictory information at home, and will happily exclude gays as deserving of respect. This isn't just about bullying, it's also about dehumanizing others. It becomes easy to exclude someone from humane treatment if you're taught that they're not even human.

You are indeed advocating for teaching students "what" to think instead of "how" to think. You would seem to allow the teacher to say "We shouldn't bully black kids, or fat kids, or disabled kids, or bespectacled kids, or Asian kids...." but when the teacher gets to "or homosexual kids", then you would have the thought police charge in to gag any mention of this one group.
Wondering wrote:
You want to take an elementary school classroom that is between 96% and 100% straight and feed them nonsense about homosexuality.
"Nonsense"? And I'm to believe that your educational motivations are unbiased? "Nonsense" like the historical record of treating gay people with violence and ostracization? Nonsense like all the civil and legal oppression against us, from marrying to military service to parenting to just having sex in our own homes?

Is it enough that schools teach against bullying black people, without ever mentioning slavery in history? Slavery was not simply "bullying", and education against bullying would not be enough to teach the wrongs against slavery. Likewise, the history of anti-gay persecution is not mere "bullying" either, but reaches deeply into the social attitude against gay people. To end this practice, it will take more than just saying "don't bully".
Wondering wrote:
You want to see straight families forced to have their kids participate in 'pride' events at school.
Hm, yes. That would be good for their understanding of social diversity. Nothing wrong with that. I would even want to see white families forced to have their kids participate in Black History Month events at school. I suppose you think that white supremacists should be able to opt their children out of such participation.
Wondering wrote:
You don't mess with other people's kids.
If those parents don't want their children "messed with", then they're welcome to home-school. But if they send their kids to PUBLIC schools then they AGREE that their children will be taught behaviors and social programs with an eye toward PUBLIC interaction. Those kids are future adults, and we all have a stake in ensuring their proper education. Parents don't have a right to ask schools to abridge their educational efforts to allow bigotry.
Wondering wrote:
Fortunately, when my kids were in elementary school I didn't have to deal with this. Homosexuals were never mentioned in school or at home. Totally neutral. If one of them came home with books like "Daddy's Roommate" or " King & King" that neutrality would have ended in a hurry. I would have then been forced to tell them about homosexuals, it wouldn't help your cause any.
Yes, I can imagine the kinds of slanderous, uninformed, hateful and xenophobic things you would teach your kids. You apparently would have zero concern for what effects your disparagement would cause gay kids, even if they were your OWN kids.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#65 Aug 4, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Yes, there is a need to categorize them.
2. If students are not given a list of the categories where discrimination is inappropriate,
1. More BS! There is only one category, kids.
2. Dumbest thing I've heard this year. If you disagree, post your list of categories where bullying is appropriate.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#66 Aug 4, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
If those parents don't want their children "messed with", then they're welcome to home-school.
More BS! Why should 96% of the population give in to the 4%? You can teach your kids anything you want to at your home.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#67 Aug 4, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
Yes, I can imagine the kinds of slanderous, uninformed, hateful and xenophobic things you would teach your kids. You apparently would have zero concern for what effects your disparagement would cause gay kids, even if they were your OWN kids.
Don't try to force a bunch of homosexual material on other people's kids and you won't get pushed back. And remember, only give the kids material that portrays LGBT in a positive light. Reality? No, not even close.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#68 Aug 4, 2014
Wondering wrote:
1. More BS! There is only one category, kids.
When kids are receiving conflicting information from home, then it's important that they learn that NO ONE is exempt from these categories. Some parents will encourage excluding gays or other groups.
Wondering wrote:
2. Dumbest thing I've heard this year. If you disagree, post your list of categories where bullying is appropriate.
There are none. But when parents teach their kids that gays aren't even human, then the rule "Don't bully any people" won't seem to apply to gays. It's important to let kids know that each and every individual group, OPENLY LISTED BY NAME, is included, regardless of whatever other side information they may hear.

You don't do a very good job of hiding your desire for a gag order against mentioning homosexuals.
Wondering wrote:
More BS! Why should 96% of the population give in to the 4%?
100% of the population is human, and 100% needs to hear this. You are engaging in exactly the problem I am describing. A minority is not "less deserving" of decent treatment just because they're a small minority.
Wondering wrote:
You can teach your kids anything you want to at your home.
Yes, you can. You can teach that evolution is false, you can teach that the Big Bang is a lie from the pit of hell, you can teach that overpopulation will be solved through delicious recipes of Soylent Green. Teach any destructive falsehoods that you want, at home.

But schools still have a duty to teach truth, and civic responsibility. Parents who choose to teach their children lies and hate will not do so unopposed.
Wondering wrote:
Don't try to force a bunch of homosexual material on other people's kids and you won't get pushed back.
We're winning. This is an empty threat.
Wondering wrote:
And remember, only give the kids material that portrays LGBT in a positive light. Reality? No, not even close.
Feel free to "correct" this reality at home, where you can slander to your heart's content. What "negatives" will you teach which reflect accurately on all LGBT people? I think there were some black people or Jewish people who did some bad things once. Are you sure to teach your kids supplemental material which gives a "negative light" to those groups, based on the bad activities of some individuals? You're just chomping at the bit to broad-brush all gay people, aren't you?

We know there are people like you out there. That's why we'll never abandon our efforts.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#69 Aug 5, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
1. But when parents teach their kids that gays aren't even human, then the rule "Don't bully any people" won't seem to apply to gays.
2. You don't do a very good job of hiding your desire for a gag order against mentioning homosexuals.
3. 100% of the population is human.
4. Parents who choose to teach their children lies and hate will not do so unopposed.
5. Feel free to "correct" this reality at home, where you can slander to your heart's content. What "negatives" will you teach which reflect accurately on all LGBT people?
6. We know there are people like you out there. That's why we'll never abandon our efforts.
1. Much stigma? Maybe you just like making little piles of BS.
2. Mention it, no problem. Teach kids that it's normal, fine and dandy? NFW.
3. I already said that, and every kid is a kid.
4. Those parents don't exist, just in your stigmatized mind.
5. The best way to prevent parents from doing what you imagine they do is not to give them a reason to.
6. It's called mind your own business and 'people like me' will mind ours.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#70 Aug 5, 2014
Wondering wrote:
1. Much stigma? Maybe you just like making little piles of BS.
That's about the level of discussion I was expecting.
Wondering wrote:
2. Mention it, no problem. Teach kids that it's normal, fine and dandy? NFW.
Gee, where do you think all that stigma comes from? Can't imagine.

It's normal, fine and dandy if a person is a homosexual, and there's nothing wrong with teaching that. A lot of people think it's horrible, wicked and worthy of scorn and shame, and they WILL teach that, every chance they get.

Combating this kind of thinking is important. It's important for gay kids who would otherwise think that they are worthless and broken, and it's important for straight kids who might otherwise treat gay kids like they're worthless and broken.

When most kids grow up, they abandon their mistreatment of "4-eyes" and "fatsos" and so on. But a lot of people hold onto their anti-gay animus well into adulthood. It's a very special, enduring kind of hate, which a lot of people believe is ordained by their various gods.
Wondering wrote:
3. I already said that, and every kid is a kid.
No, you said that 96% of the population should not "give in" to the other 4%. You seem to actually be in favor of making one (and only one) group into outsiders who should be viewed as invaders to be resisted. Everything you say reinforces the need for this kind of education.
Wondering wrote:
4. Those parents don't exist, just in your stigmatized mind.
Pretending that the problem doesn't exist is a good way to perpetuate it. Do you want to challenge the statistics which say that 40% of homeless youths are LGBT kids?

Oh yes, those parents exist. If they didn't, there'd be no need for your "opt out".
Wondering wrote:
5. The best way to prevent parents from doing what you imagine they do is not to give them a reason to.
Some people think that we're unforgivable destroyers of society simply for demanding our equal rights. We BREATHE and they think they have a reason to hate us. The most benign approaches to civil equality earn us the most vicious demonizations. There's no satisfying some people (short of all of us just lying down and dying).
Wondering wrote:
6. It's called mind your own business and 'people like me' will mind ours.
Kids who are going to become tomorrow's adults are everybody's business. As long as gay kids are being turned out of their homes by their "loving" parents, someone is not minding their own business. They are making this everyone's problem.

As the world moves toward a better, more equal status for homosexuals, it is not the "opt out" crowd who is doing the improving. If left in their hands, it would get much, much worse for us. You are advocating that we should empower the people who would ACTIVELY make a harder, less-accepting world for gay people.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#71 Aug 5, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
1. That's about the level of discussion I was expecting.
2. Gee, where do you think all that stigma comes from? Can't imagine.
3. It's normal, fine and dandy if a person is a homosexual,
4. and there's nothing wrong with teaching that.
5,. A lot of people think it's horrible, wicked and worthy of scorn and shame, and they WILL teach that, every chance they get.
6. Combating this kind of thinking is important. It's important for gay kids who would otherwise think that they are worthless and broken, and it's important for straight kids who might otherwise treat gay kids like they're worthless and broken.
7. When most kids grow up, they abandon their mistreatment of "4-eyes" and "fatsos" and so on. But a lot of people hold onto their anti-gay animus well into adulthood. It's a very special, enduring kind of hate, which a lot of people believe is ordained by their various gods.
8. No, you said that 96% of the population should not "give in" to the other 4%. You seem to actually be in favor of making one (and only one) group into outsiders who should be viewed as invaders to be resisted.
9. Everything you say reinforces the need for this kind of education.
10. Pretending that the problem doesn't exist is a good way to perpetuate it. Do you want to challenge the statistics which say that 40% of homeless youths are LGBT kids?
11. Oh yes, those parents exist. If they didn't, there'd be no need for your "opt out".
12. Some people think that we're unforgivable destroyers of society simply for demanding our equal rights. We BREATHE and they think they have a reason to hate us. The most benign approaches to civil equality earn us the most vicious demonizations. There's no satisfying some people (short of all of us just lying down and dying).
13. Kids who are going to become tomorrow's adults are everybody's business. As long as gay kids are being turned out of their homes by their "loving" parents, someone is not minding their own business. They are making this everyone's problem.
14. As the world moves toward a better, more equal status for homosexuals, it is not the "opt out" crowd who is doing the improving. If left in their hands, it would get much, much worse for us. You are advocating that we should empower the people who would ACTIVELY make a harder, less-accepting world for gay people.
1. You get back what you put in.
2. Me either. Your head is the only logical answer.
3. 98.4% of the population, according to the CDC, isn't homosexual.
4. There's plenty wrong with teaching that.
5. Only if their kid comes home with a gay story book. Then only because they will be forced to.
6. Teaching little kids about gay penguins is not important at all. You only imagine that parents spend time with their kids teaching them to hate. It doesn't happen.
7. You are a different category. Not wanting to associate with gays is not hate, it's a preference.
8. If you don't want to be looked upon as an invader, stop invading.
9. Do it at your house.
10. It's sad that some kids are homeless, it's not my fault.
11. An opt out is essential. Either that or just don't teach it. With only 1.6% of the population gay there is a great chance that most classrooms have no gay kids in them.
12. When it comes to other people's families just minding your own business can go a long way.
13. Blame the parents.
14. What part of you mind your business and we'll mind ours is giving you problems?

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