No Military Welcome for Transgender A...

No Military Welcome for Transgender Americans

There are 71 comments on the EDGE story from Sep 24, 2012, titled No Military Welcome for Transgender Americans. In it, EDGE reports that:

The repeal of ''Don't Ask, Don't Tell'' ushered in a new era of acceptance in the armed forces for thousands of Americans.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EDGE.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#58 Sep 28, 2012
Aggie wrote:
<quoted text>You have just summed-up the end result of liberalism, Homocrats, and Obama.
Look what it's done for our economy.
You realize the economy was sliding long before Obama was even a glimmer in the democratic nomination's eye. Back when bush was president. That your right Obama has failed this country horribly. Because he was unable to get stubborn republicans to even think about trying to compromise. And he failed to get democrats to give up enough ground to placate the Republicans who refused to do anything unless it was exactly what they wanted.

The problem with this countries political parties is that they are willing to see this country fail if it makes the other group look bad.

Oh and if you ask me if I'm better off today than I was when Obama took office. The answer is Yes I am. Is he the best president we have ever had no. Is he the best president we have had in the last three presidents no actually Clinton was if we go by economics.

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#59 Sep 28, 2012
Lililth_Satans_Wh_ore wrote:
<quoted text>sorry but i nor my children will serve in a countries military if full equallity and civil rights aren't granted
thats your right. But if we refuse to serve because we dont have the rights how will we prove ourselves worthy of even the rights that we do enjoy?

Also I think military service should be your childs choice. My parents didnt want me to serve because we were at war and I still went in.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#60 Sep 29, 2012
Aggie wrote:
<quoted text> Is the inclusion of transsexuals really important to accomplishing military goals, or just political ones?
This garbage is rabid homosexual agenda.
If transgendered are willing and able to serve, there's no reason the military should ban them "just because".

The same thing was said about black serving or women serving or gays serving.

There are likely some brilliant leaders who are being banned from service "just because".
The Mad Man

Long Beach, CA

#61 Sep 29, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
If transgendered are willing and able to serve, there's no reason the military should ban them "just because".
The same thing was said about black serving or women serving or gays serving.
There are likely some brilliant leaders who are being banned from service "just because".
Our military are 'messed up' enough without adding hormone shots and chemicals into their bodies. Can you see a transsexual PTSD victim? That would be the first claim in the trauma of war.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#62 Sep 29, 2012
Here's where you make a common mistake. That we just decided to "Become" a transexual one day. What you don't understand is that were always Transexual, it's just that we stopped trying to hide it. As one Transexual said, "First you're born with this, then you fight it off, then it wins!"
Some Transexuals do hang around Gays, why, I don't understand! Gay's have don't very little for us. The way we made any progress was by doing things for ourselves. Gays generally dislike us and at best only tolerate us. I have found Gays to be feckless cowards for the most part and our "rights" are the first to take off the table. The truth is we have very little in common with gays and with Lesbians it's worse. They think we're conspiring to sneak into their "womanspace" whatever that is. Google "The transexual Empire" by Janice Raymond. She wrote the book in the late 70s so you have a good timeline to judge it from.
Regards, Terri
Aggie wrote:
<quoted text>No one, even yourself, denies that there's some freaky stuff going on with you and others who decide to become similarly situated under the rubric of transsomething.
Nevertheless, some of you weirdos/freaks of a tranny-persuasion are a lot more eloquent and sometimes even likable than the homosexuals you pal around with and speak for you/trannies.
What color stripe are the trannies on a rainbow flag?
It's a legitimate question.
A flag is a political symbol.
The Mad Man

Long Beach, CA

#63 Sep 29, 2012
TerryE wrote:
Here's where you make a common mistake. That we just decided to "Become" a transexual one day. What you don't understand is that were always Transexual, it's just that we stopped trying to hide it. As one Transexual said, "First you're born with this, then you fight it off, then it wins!"
Some Transexuals do hang around Gays, why, I don't understand! Gay's have don't very little for us. The way we made any progress was by doing things for ourselves. Gays generally dislike us and at best only tolerate us. I have found Gays to be feckless cowards for the most part and our "rights" are the first to take off the table. The truth is we have very little in common with gays and with Lesbians it's worse. They think we're conspiring to sneak into their "womanspace" whatever that is. Google "The transexual Empire" by Janice Raymond. She wrote the book in the late 70s so you have a good timeline to judge it from.
Regards, Terri
<quoted text>
So what do you advise, creating a new society for transsexuals? You are either born a male or female. What you do with that choice is up to the individual.
You make a lot of assumptions here...' I have found Gays to be feckless cowards for the most part and our "rights" are the first to take off the table. The truth is we have very little in common with gays and with Lesbians it's worse'.
After reading this post, I question a decision to make a sexual change because you don't seem to fit in anywhere. Are you suggesting joining the military will make a difference? What are you suggesting here?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#64 Sep 29, 2012
The Mad Man wrote:
<quoted text>
So what do you advise, creating a new society for transsexuals? You are either born a male or female. What you do with that choice is up to the individual.
You make a lot of assumptions here...' I have found Gays to be feckless cowards for the most part and our "rights" are the first to take off the table. The truth is we have very little in common with gays and with Lesbians it's worse'.
After reading this post, I question a decision to make a sexual change because you don't seem to fit in anywhere. Are you suggesting joining the military will make a difference? What are you suggesting here?
Actually thousands of people are born each year who are neither male nor female; they're called "intersex" and have a chromosome pairing other than the standard XX (female) or XY (male).
chief rob

Sewell, NJ

#65 Sep 30, 2012
Pattysboi wrote:
fr NoQ:
>It most definitely is a mental disorder. Them freaks don't know what direction they're going, let alone what gender they are. Lock em up & put them is a mental institution, that's where they belong.<
Being GLBT is NOT a "mental disorder". However, being homophobic IS, and there is help available from your local county mental health society. Have mommy call them and and make an appointment for you. They have playrooms for you.
you are a fruit cake hahaha
The Mad Man

Long Beach, CA

#66 Sep 30, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually thousands of people are born each year who are neither male nor female; they're called "intersex" and have a chromosome pairing other than the standard XX (female) or XY (male).
And what do you advise? A society of people who neither fit male or female chromosomes? If this 'intersex' is true, then the parents I am sure are given a choice of what sex they want their child to be by adding something to balance out the equation.That is what science is all about. Later on, the child can change their sex but they still have to pick a male or female category to belong to. How is society supposed to 'adjust' to an 'intersex' category? This is too debatable and would cause too many problems. Our society is too messed up already trying to keep up with the changing times. Now you want to create an 'intersex' society with human rights? The law suits would bungle up the court system for years not to mention what society would do with this category.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#67 Sep 30, 2012
The Mad Man wrote:
<quoted text>
And what do you advise? A society of people who neither fit male or female chromosomes? If this 'intersex' is true, then the parents I am sure are given a choice of what sex they want their child to be by adding something to balance out the equation.That is what science is all about. Later on, the child can change their sex but they still have to pick a male or female category to belong to. How is society supposed to 'adjust' to an 'intersex' category? This is too debatable and would cause too many problems. Our society is too messed up already trying to keep up with the changing times. Now you want to create an 'intersex' society with human rights? The law suits would bungle up the court system for years not to mention what society would do with this category.
Oh yeah, god forbid ALL humans have human rights!

Just what lawsuits do you envision?

What's so difficult about adding a 3rd gender? Why should people have to choose either male or female if they are neither (or both)?

The most you'd have to do is add another bathroom choice. Or better yet, make all bathrooms unisex stalls. Who cares if you're crapping next to a man, woman, or other?

“Even an Ice Princess can melt.”

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#68 Sep 30, 2012
The Mad Man wrote:
<quoted text>
And what do you advise? A society of people who neither fit male or female chromosomes? If this 'intersex' is true, then the parents I am sure are given a choice of what sex they want their child to be by adding something to balance out the equation.That is what science is all about. Later on, the child can change their sex but they still have to pick a male or female category to belong to. How is society supposed to 'adjust' to an 'intersex' category? This is too debatable and would cause too many problems. Our society is too messed up already trying to keep up with the changing times. Now you want to create an 'intersex' society with human rights? The law suits would bungle up the court system for years not to mention what society would do with this category.
We already live in that society. Even if you dont count transsexuals. Chromosomes are not the end all be all to gender. Look it up. There are natural born women who have XY chromosomes. By natural born I mean born with a female physiology and the ability to give birth. And same with men. There are many (and many of these are part of the Transgender community) people out there with XXY or XXY42 or who suffer from a condition called 5 alpha reductase deficiency as well as Androgen insensitivity Syndrome.

Look it up research it you will find that all I say is true.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#69 Oct 1, 2012
"I'm just a Transexual from Transylvania!" LOL Or as Tim what's his/her name sings in the Rocky Horror show. So now we need our own town, state, province, what have you? Oh what a nice place it would be too! Vending machines for hormones! SRS surgeons making house calls. All the stores carry extra large shoes! Yes, a real TS paradise with men in cages and we could take them out when we were in the mood. LOL! Fraid not! We'll never see it. We just have muddle through the world as you and I know it. However, Is that a reason to abuse us? Is that a reason to beat us up and kill us? Is that a reason to deny us basic services? We are what we are and we'd probably be the first to change if it were possible because no one enjoys the ration of Sh*t that we get thrown in our faces from time to time. Stop trying to think of things that should be done to us as "Cures" or punishment. Just leave us the F**K alone!
Regards, Terri
The Mad Man wrote:
<quoted text>
So what do you advise, creating a new society for transsexuals? You are either born a male or female. What you do with that choice is up to the individual.
You make a lot of assumptions here...' I have found Gays to be feckless cowards for the most part and our "rights" are the first to take off the table. The truth is we have very little in common with gays and with Lesbians it's worse'.
After reading this post, I question a decision to make a sexual change because you don't seem to fit in anywhere. Are you suggesting joining the military will make a difference? What are you suggesting here?
The Mad Man

Long Beach, CA

#70 Oct 1, 2012
Roisia wrote:
<quoted text>
We already live in that society. Even if you dont count transsexuals. Chromosomes are not the end all be all to gender. Look it up. There are natural born women who have XY chromosomes. By natural born I mean born with a female physiology and the ability to give birth. And same with men. There are many (and many of these are part of the Transgender community) people out there with XXY or XXY42 or who suffer from a condition called 5 alpha reductase deficiency as well as Androgen insensitivity Syndrome.
Look it up research it you will find that all I say is true.
It appears that you are the one who does not want gender reassignment for what ever the reason. According to what I read, you stated you 'would rather be in the middle' and that concern me. Gender reassignment if for a healthy individual who understands that they want the reassignment. They have the right to choose. There may be a 'mix up' of chromosomes in the world but there is the option of choosing where you want to belong. At least making a choice I can respect although I may not understand it, it doesn't mean I have to understand it, just accept it. That I can respect because it take a lot to make this decision and the life altering changes that happen after. I don't understand an individual who sees this 'mix up' of chromosomes and does not want to do anything about it. That sounds unhealthy to me. It is your life and if you want to live a lie, just don't hurt anyone who does not understand you choices.
The Mad Man

Long Beach, CA

#71 Oct 1, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yeah, god forbid ALL humans have human rights!
Just what lawsuits do you envision?
What's so difficult about adding a 3rd gender? Why should people have to choose either male or female if they are neither (or both)?
The most you'd have to do is add another bathroom choice. Or better yet, make all bathrooms unisex stalls. Who cares if you're crapping next to a man, woman, or other?
I am not sure I understand you choices here. You are in favor of a 3rd gender? Why? Why should people have to choose either to be male or female? Because as a healthy individual with proper counseling, if they believe they were truly born the wrong ex, they get the option to change and correct that mistake. That is what a healthy individual would do and not live a lie to themselves or anyone else. Now that needs some serious counseling.
The Mad Man

Long Beach, CA

#72 Oct 1, 2012
TerryE wrote:
"I'm just a Transexual from Transylvania!" LOL Or as Tim what's his/her name sings in the Rocky Horror show. So now we need our own town, state, province, what have you? Oh what a nice place it would be too! Vending machines for hormones! SRS surgeons making house calls. All the stores carry extra large shoes! Yes, a real TS paradise with men in cages and we could take them out when we were in the mood. LOL! Fraid not! We'll never see it. We just have muddle through the world as you and I know it. However, Is that a reason to abuse us? Is that a reason to beat us up and kill us? Is that a reason to deny us basic services? We are what we are and we'd probably be the first to change if it were possible because no one enjoys the ration of Sh*t that we get thrown in our faces from time to time. Stop trying to think of things that should be done to us as "Cures" or punishment. Just leave us the F**K alone!
Regards, Terri
<quoted text>
This was your response...
It was while I maintained my false male persona. I confess, I was a coward and couldn't get the courage to present as a woman full time.
You are asking for trouble when you live this lie to people who do not understand your choices. How and why do you justify your reasoning to a society who does not understand a choice like this? What would you expect? If you can't respect yourself and make a courageous decision, how would you expect 'us' to respect your choice to live a lie? I wish I could sympathize with your decision but I have issue understanding your choices. I will be glad to leave your 'issues' alone. This is your 'issue' but the topic at hand here is...
No Military Welcome for Transgender Americans... and I hope never to see you in uniform.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#73 Oct 1, 2012
The Mad Man wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not sure I understand you choices here. You are in favor of a 3rd gender? Why? Why should people have to choose either to be male or female? Because as a healthy individual with proper counseling, if they believe they were truly born the wrong ex, they get the option to change and correct that mistake. That is what a healthy individual would do and not live a lie to themselves or anyone else. Now that needs some serious counseling.
Your're talking about strictly transgendered individuals; those who are genetically & biologically one gender, but think they are the other.

I'm talking about intersex individuals who are NEITHER strictly male nor female genetically, or those who exhibit BOTH physical sexual characteristics. Why should they have to choose between just male or female? Why not let them be exactly what they are; a 3rd blended gender.

This comes down to societal gender roles more than anything else.

Why should people be forced to choose only male or female?

I'd propose- Male, Female, Other- but leave it to the individual to decide once they are competant to make such a decision. Most intersex kids are surgically altered in infancy- obviously against their will- by their parents who are limited to choosing between male or female. They often choose wrong.
Truly transgendered people probably should have sex-reassignment surgery if they so choose. But how many intersex individual

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#74 Oct 1, 2012
The Mad Man wrote:
<quoted text>
It appears that you are the one who does not want gender reassignment for what ever the reason. According to what I read, you stated you 'would rather be in the middle' and that concern me. Gender reassignment if for a healthy individual who understands that they want the reassignment. They have the right to choose. There may be a 'mix up' of chromosomes in the world but there is the option of choosing where you want to belong. At least making a choice I can respect although I may not understand it, it doesn't mean I have to understand it, just accept it. That I can respect because it take a lot to make this decision and the life altering changes that happen after. I don't understand an individual who sees this 'mix up' of chromosomes and does not want to do anything about it. That sounds unhealthy to me. It is your life and if you want to live a lie, just don't hurt anyone who does not understand you choices.
How is it "living a lie" if people feel they are NEITHER male nor female because they were born as neither or as both?

Why should they be limited to choosing only male or female?

Why not allowing them to be EXACTLY who they are?

Answer: Societal gender roles which only allow for male or female.

There is no reason there can't be a third or even fourth or fifth gender.

Unhealthy is being forced to choose something you're not.
The Mad Man

Long Beach, CA

#75 Oct 1, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
How is it "living a lie" if people feel they are NEITHER male nor female because they were born as neither or as both?
Why should they be limited to choosing only male or female?
Why not allowing them to be EXACTLY who they are?
Answer: Societal gender roles which only allow for male or female.
There is no reason there can't be a third or even fourth or fifth gender.
Unhealthy is being forced to choose something you're not.
This is just wrong! Our society demands a male or female for REALITY sake. Why should we change that moray? Unhealthy is not identifying who and what you are. If you are born with mixed up chromosomes then this should be identified and changed BECAUSE our society demands it and we don't need to change societies standards because of individuals who cannot choose. We don't need to confuse a society that cannot identify with individuals who cannot choose! There is a mental stability here along with the genes related to these chromosomes and it would make a difference in determining a persons mental stability and this just sounds wrong!
That is my opinion and the reality of society. That much WILL NOT CHANGE!
The Mad Man

Long Beach, CA

#76 Oct 1, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Your're talking about strictly transgendered individuals; those who are genetically & biologically one gender, but think they are the other.
I'm talking about intersex individuals who are NEITHER strictly male nor female genetically, or those who exhibit BOTH physical sexual characteristics. Why should they have to choose between just male or female? Why not let them be exactly what they are; a 3rd blended gender.
This comes down to societal gender roles more than anything else.
Why should people be forced to choose only male or female?
I'd propose- Male, Female, Other- but leave it to the individual to decide once they are competant to make such a decision. Most intersex kids are surgically altered in infancy- obviously against their will- by their parents who are limited to choosing between male or female. They often choose wrong.
Truly transgendered people probably should have sex-reassignment surgery if they so choose. But how many intersex individual
There is no such thing in our sex reality as an 'other' category as yet and I don't see this changing any time soon. There are a lot of factors to consider here. Look at the whole picture and not jut one point of view. Our society is having enough of a hard time accepting the changing roles of gay, lesbian and transsexuals and their choices. There are just too many factors to consider here and there is no justification for this role in our present society.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#77 Oct 1, 2012
The Mad Man wrote:
<quoted text>
This is just wrong! Our society demands a male or female for REALITY sake. Why should we change that moray? Unhealthy is not identifying who and what you are. If you are born with mixed up chromosomes then this should be identified and changed BECAUSE our society demands it and we don't need to change societies standards because of individuals who cannot choose. We don't need to confuse a society that cannot identify with individuals who cannot choose! There is a mental stability here along with the genes related to these chromosomes and it would make a difference in determining a persons mental stability and this just sounds wrong!
That is my opinion and the reality of society. That much WILL NOT CHANGE!
I agree it is unlikely society will change from the 2 gender classification any time soon. But that doesn't change the fact that the ONLY reason a person currently has to choose between male or female is SOLELY due to society.

You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.

There is no rational reason society couldn't change to accept 3 or more gender classifications, and eventually will as transgendered & intersex individuals are better understood.

Just as society once viewed homoseuality as an abberation, but now is accepted as a normal- albeit minority- part of human sexuality.

Just as society once viewed left-handed people as abnormal, but now accepts us a normal- albeit minority- part of society.

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