Are Any Physical Tests Required to Ge...

Are Any Physical Tests Required to Get A Sex Change?

Posted in the Transgender Forum

CommonSense

East Lansing, MI

#1 Sep 18, 2012
If it has a physiological basis then physical tests should be required, no?

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#2 Sep 18, 2012
Physical test to determine what? The only physical "test" is whether you're in good enough shape to survive the operation.
Regards, Terri
CommonSense

East Lansing, MI

#3 Sep 18, 2012
TerryE wrote:
Physical test to determine what? The only physical "test" is whether you're in good enough shape to survive the operation.
Regards, Terri
What if you make a mistake?

I once heard of a guy who thought he was supposed to be a girl, got a sex change operation, and then realized he made a mistake. They could remove his breast implants, and they could start him on male hormones to replace the ones lost from his castration but he was stuck with a vagina.

Since scientists can see differences in brain scans why not require that as part of testing? If the person has a cissexual brain scan than chances are they are just confused and should not have surgery they will regret later.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#4 Sep 18, 2012
A few slip through! It happens! However, there's an overall success rate of at least 98%. No one goes to the surgeon and says "schedule me for next week!" No surgeon in the US will do it without at least two letters of recommendation, from two psycho therapists, specially trained in Gender issues. In Thailand it only requires one letter if you're a Thai citizen, two if you're a foreignor. Have some slipped through? Yes it's inevitable. But the numbers are very small. Every TS knows the wisdom of the old saying, "If you're not a TS before the operation, You will be after!". Gregory Hemingway,(Google) the son of the writer Ernest Hemingway was just such a case IMO. However. The Hemingway bloodlines were plagued with a lot of problems before Gregory was born. There was a lot of suicides and depression. Ernest displayed typical TS behavior by trying to be as super macho as possible. Yet, In the novel "The sun also rises" (At least I think it was that one) Jake has his genitals shot off in WW1 ans his other Character, Lady Brett Ashley is a strong female persona. Another source would be Lynnconway.com She tackles this problem in her site. Hope this helps!
Regards, Terri
CommonSense wrote:
<quoted text>
What if you make a mistake?
I once heard of a guy who thought he was supposed to be a girl, got a sex change operation, and then realized he made a mistake. They could remove his breast implants, and they could start him on male hormones to replace the ones lost from his castration but he was stuck with a vagina.
Since scientists can see differences in brain scans why not require that as part of testing? If the person has a cissexual brain scan than chances are they are just confused and should not have surgery they will regret later.
CommonSense

East Lansing, MI

#5 Sep 19, 2012
Seriously though if these things are physical and biological then it follows they be treated like such and physical tests used to establish diagnosis.

Same goes for other psychological issues that have a neurological basis. There is way too much overprescription of ADD meds. A brain scan should be required before someone can get pills in order to prevent fraud by tweakers, and to stop doctors from taking advantage of naive patients.
CommonSense

East Lansing, MI

#6 Sep 19, 2012
What about that inmate where the judge just ruled the state had to give him a sex change operation?

What if someone faked it just so they could be transported to a woman's prison in order to either 1. Avoid prison rape(note: I'm not saying I'm pro-prison rape I'm just saying it's one plausible reason a person might fake transsexuality) OR 2. Have the opportunity for romantic and sexual relationships with women.(The reverse a woman requesting a sex change to get into a men's prison for that reason could also happen)

Now that that ruling has been made state legislatures should pass a law saying "fine, we'll pay for it, BUT inmates require a positive brain scan in order to approve it."

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#7 Sep 20, 2012
Your reply reminds me of the old story of a committee to design an elephant. Almost every answer, to every question is wrong. The judge made his ruling based on the old princible that if an inmate has a medical issue, we take care of it. The AMA, After years of research into this, has ruled it's a legitimate medical issue. Ergo, we take care of it! The number of men who would fake a condition like this just to be transported to a women's prison is so small as to be nonexistant. And for what purpose? Certainly not sex! Perhaps they really are Transexuals who identify with women much better than men. You can't imagine how it is to live as a woman among men, but having a male body. Every word, look, gesture, movement can give you away. And that's when the trouble starts and there's a good chance you may wind up dead at the end.
My advice as a Pre op Transexual is to stay out of this. I'm not being nasty, it's just that the life experiences of a cisgendered person don't qualify them to understand what life is for us. Common sense does not apply. Common sense does not even recognise our existance. Yet, we're here aren't we?
Regards, Terri
CommonSense wrote:
What about that inmate where the judge just ruled the state had to give him a sex change operation?
What if someone faked it just so they could be transported to a woman's prison in order to either 1. Avoid prison rape(note: I'm not saying I'm pro-prison rape I'm just saying it's one plausible reason a person might fake transsexuality) OR 2. Have the opportunity for romantic and sexual relationships with women.(The reverse a woman requesting a sex change to get into a men's prison for that reason could also happen)
Now that that ruling has been made state legislatures should pass a law saying "fine, we'll pay for it, BUT inmates require a positive brain scan in order to approve it."
CommonSense

East Lansing, MI

#8 Sep 26, 2012
The court erred in not asking the question "why is medical treatment considered a right in the first place?"

It's not to make the inmate happy, it's to save the inmate's life or limb or prevent great physical suffering.

If we add in psychological issues, what if an inmate is depressed about his height, can he get lengthening/shortening surgery paid for?
TerryE wrote:
You can't imagine how it is to live as a woman among men, but having a male body. Every word, look, gesture, movement can give you away.
"give you away"? How is anyone going to tell the person is a "transsexual" and not just effeminate?

“Don't steal my happy”

Since: Aug 12

Shelbyville, Ky.

#9 Oct 4, 2012
CommonSense wrote:
The court erred in not asking the question "why is medical treatment considered a right in the first place?"
It's not to make the inmate happy, it's to save the inmate's life or limb or prevent great physical suffering.
If we add in psychological issues, what if an inmate is depressed about his height, can he get lengthening/shortening surgery paid for?
<quoted text>
"give you away"? How is anyone going to tell the person is a "transsexual" and not just effeminate?
I believe the point that Terri is trying to make to you is that if you're not trans there is no amount of explaining that will allow you to understand this issue. Being TS myself, I understand this very well, and it's a point that has been made many times before by many other people, with the same effect. It's not that we're trying to say that this is a trans only thing, keep out. It's just that this is an issue that has to be experienced first hand to be truly understood, and I believe that is why we do, and very much have to, rely so heavily on each other for support.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#11 Oct 5, 2012
The Court did not err! It is an accepted princible that we take care of people who are incarcerated. Our penal system is not supposed to be a final solution to the crime problem except in a few cases where the death penalty is applied. We don't incarcerate someone to give them a lingering death or make one person's time worse than another by withholding proper and appropriate medical treatment. I know it's popular to say things like "Let em' rot", but in reality our prison system does not work that way.
Regards, Terri
CommonSense wrote:
The court erred in not asking the question "why is medical treatment considered a right in the first place?"
It's not to make the inmate happy, it's to save the inmate's life or limb or prevent great physical suffering.
If we add in psychological issues, what if an inmate is depressed about his height, can he get lengthening/shortening surgery paid for?
<quoted text>
"give you away"? How is anyone going to tell the person is a "transsexual" and not just effeminate?
CommonSense

East Lansing, MI

#12 Oct 5, 2012
TerryE wrote:
The Court did not err! It is an accepted princible that we take care of people who are incarcerated. Our penal system is not supposed to be a final solution to the crime problem except in a few cases where the death penalty is applied. We don't incarcerate someone to give them a lingering death or make one person's time worse than another by withholding proper and appropriate medical treatment. I know it's popular to say things like "Let em' rot", but in reality our prison system does not work that way.
Regards, Terri
<quoted text>
I didn't say the court erred in its decision (though I believe that too that wasn't the point).
It erred in not asking the question "why is medical treatment considered a right in the first place?" That's important. "Medical treatment" is a means. If "medical treatment" did not fulfill needs that inmates have a right to then it would not be a right in the first place, making the question of what needs are being addressed and fulfilled and whether those needs ought to be rights an even more fundamental question.

As it is I've since heard that the inmate kept trying to cut off that same inmate's penis and that was resulting in even higher costs than if they had just allowed it in the first place.

But there's an even simpler solution here, let the inmate have the sex change operation but make the inmate pay for it, not upfront but add more mandatory labor(which inmates do get financially compensated for) in order to pay off expenses.

The decision this links back to only determined that inmates have a right to medical care, it never said it had to be free, just that if the inmate can't afford it the inmate must still get treatment. It would be perfectly constitutional to decide that if an inmate has any money of their own they must spend that at first, and then pay back through mandatory work while in prison what ever remains and then if they ever get out(this person is in for life) still required to pay it back with what ever job they get.

That's at least the way it ought to be until we have universal health care. But even then I don't agree with including sex changes as universal health care, so I'd still say make the inmate work for it! I'm open to changing my mind on that, but from what I've read I'm not convinced it should be. Occam's Razor tells me those brain scans are more likely to reflect personality differences than any innate need to alter your body. Come up with a study that includes a measurement(other than self-report) of a person's masculinity and femininity and then compares cissexuals and transsexuals. Also compare non-transitioning (by choice not by inability) transgender people with transitioning transgender people (if there's no practical difference then a "sex change" is elective even if the gender identity is not and instead we should pay for counseling to help a person feel comfortable being a male in a woman's body or vice versa).

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