Transsexuals should cut it out | Julie Burchill

Jan 13, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Guardian

The brilliant writer Suzanne Moore and I go back a long way. I first met her when she was a young single mother living in a council flat; she took me out to interview me about my novel Ambition for dear dead City Limits magazine.

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GayleJane

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#1
Jan 13, 2013
 
Just disgusting....avoid reading....
The response was such that over 2200 comments caused the paper to close the comments in less than 12 hours....as opposed to its usual 3 days...
Utter fanning of the flames of hate....I have reported to the police as on line hate crime...
The subsequent article posted at The Guardian @ 18:00 hrs GMT by Roz was far more measured and nuanced...
That a national and respected newspaper like The Guardian in the UK after April Ashley was awarded an MBE for services for Trans people by the Queen in 2012 published this article cause consternation.- if this was written about ethnic or racial groups then the "author" would find themselves in a legal nightmare.
Appaling.

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#2
Jan 13, 2013
 

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I see it's being inquiried.
The article writer Julie Burchill would have been wiser to have let her old friend Suzanne Moore write the piece or ghost write it. It comes over like a schoolchild writing in defense of her mate rather than a professional. I feel there are one or two worthy points that would justify defending (or rather explaining) Susanne Moore's stance, but they will now be lost in the rubble. What's even sadder is both JB and the paper didn't consider anyone would take offence, or rather didn't consider anyone they considered worthy would take offense. Perhaps they think their readership has no transgenders and has noone else who would see this for what it is - discrimination and insults.

Since: Jan 08

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#3
Jan 13, 2013
 

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I read most of the article. Ms. Burchill,T-women are not "dicks in chicks clothing." T-women are women. Check these facts with your UK Medical Association. I assume you idiots have one? In my opinion,most of these vitriolic remarks on this subject come from other women. This is disgusting. The only reason that I can see why this occurs,is just plain female jealousy.

“Can't help being fabulous”

Since: Dec 10

Sparkle <3

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#4
Jan 14, 2013
 

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She's disgusting, and her article is completely misinformed. She should be ashamed to call herself a "feminist".

Since: Jan 08

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#5
Jan 14, 2013
 
Kesla15 wrote:
She's disgusting, and her article is completely misinformed. She should be ashamed to call herself a "feminist".
"She should be ashamed to call herself a woman."
DrewGirl15

York, UK

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#6
Jan 15, 2013
 
Hey everyone erm I myself am a Transsexual and I just want to say that the trans comunity are only doing what we do to prevent our desires of possible depression, atempted suicide and never being able to enjoy our life.. Unless understood and physically feeling like we are feeling you can get to f**k with writing on your views if you have no idea how we feel inside!!! A large number of people think that because we might be feeling small and restrict what we do in life just see us as 'unpopular'... We have problems on our mind all the time because of little or no comfort of our body build.. If you want more of my views then add my BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) pin 263C1CB2

Since: Jan 08

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#7
Jan 15, 2013
 
DrewGirl15 wrote:
Hey everyone erm I myself am a Transsexual and I just want to say that the trans comunity are only doing what we do to prevent our desires of possible depression, atempted suicide and never being able to enjoy our life.. Unless understood and physically feeling like we are feeling you can get to f**k with writing on your views if you have no idea how we feel inside!!! A large number of people think that because we might be feeling small and restrict what we do in life just see us as 'unpopular'... We have problems on our mind all the time because of little or no comfort of our body build.. If you want more of my views then add my BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) pin 263C1CB2
Drew,all T-women experience at some time what you are experiencing. Times are changing. More men are accepting T-women as women. Women also will come around. We are born with our gender;regardless of our sex.
mary smith

Brooklyn, NY

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#8
Jan 18, 2013
 
i dont see anything wrong with the article. what her point was, and a valid point, is that is pretty messed up for a bunch of men in wigs to tell women how they should feel about being a woman and how they should say sorry when told too.

and the reaction to her saying this? the men in wigs are telling her to shut up and say sorry. rather than going after the people who abuse them and victimize them, these men in wigs turn around and attack women who have been fighting for womens rights since before it was trendy.

this is exactly like when some brats at peta started attacking jane goodall for not being a vegan. you wanna be a woman fine, have it. dont you fucking dare try an tell me what i should and should not do. and no im not sorry.
mary smith

Brooklyn, NY

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#9
Jan 18, 2013
 
trannys are not real women. they can call themselves that when they have their first period, or when they get ovarian cancer at 20 and have to have their ovaries removed. the attacks on this author is just not going change that.

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#10
Jan 18, 2013
 
mary smith wrote:
trannys are not real women. they can call themselves that when they have their first period, or when they get ovarian cancer at 20 and have to have their ovaries removed. the attacks on this author is just not going change that.
Mary,there are bio-women who suffer from a pityful ailment where their ovaries,uterus,vagina are incapable of working;including no-period. Some are even married. I don't know about "trannys" [a disrespectful term];but,T-women ARE real women. Eventually bio-women will accept this medical FACT. Mary,do you know that many T-women "like" all other women very much. What is it about T-Women,that you don't like?

“Can't help being fabulous”

Since: Dec 10

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#11
Jan 19, 2013
 

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mary smith wrote:
i dont see anything wrong with the article. what her point was, and a valid point, is that is pretty messed up for a bunch of men in wigs to tell women how they should feel about being a woman and how they should say sorry when told too.
and the reaction to her saying this? the men in wigs are telling her to shut up and say sorry. rather than going after the people who abuse them and victimize them, these men in wigs turn around and attack women who have been fighting for womens rights since before it was trendy.
this is exactly like when some brats at peta started attacking jane goodall for not being a vegan. you wanna be a woman fine, have it. dont you fucking dare try an tell me what i should and should not do. and no im not sorry.
Considering that you're a troll I don't really know why i'm bothering to respond to this.

Gender is a mental state of mind of how one wishes to been to seen in society, as either a 'man','woman', or other.

Sex is your physical XX or XY chromosome that leads you to having characteristics i.e. male or female genitals, and secondary sex characteristics at puberty.

Most people have a sex and gender that match up. Sadly this isn't the case for everyone, and some WOMEN who may be genetically MALE have to go through several hormonal and surgically corrective surgeries in order to help their physical appearance match their gender. And vice versa for some MEN.

There, that's a bit of life-lesson for you. Anyway:

Birchill doesn't have a valid point, she was attempting to justify insulting the trans-community, she was supporting Moore by saying that she has the right to insult people because she's done good work in other sectors. It's a bit like saying "oh i've supported black people, so now I can insult the disabled, because you know, they're only half a person".... Do you get the point i'm making?

Try not to be a jerk about things hon, it just makes you look backwards. Attempt to put yourself in other peoples shoes and then you will understand where they are coming from.

Plus hatred is an ugly emotion.

“No Quarter!”

Since: Aug 12

Shelbyville, Ky.

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#12
Jan 20, 2013
 
mary smith wrote:
trannys are not real women. they can call themselves that when they have their first period, or when they get ovarian cancer at 20 and have to have their ovaries removed. the attacks on this author is just not going change that.
Granted, you have the right to your opinion, and to voice it out loud if you wish. Well, so do I, and YOU are pathetic and hateful, and most of all, completely disrespectful. Honestly, I feel sorry for you and whatever it is in you life that has caused you to be this hateful. And you can try to be a know-it-all about what trans women actually are when you wake up every day and feel completely wrong in your own skin. Spend decades trying to fill a social role you're never going to be able to, and become suicidally depressed because of it. Be constantly reminded by self-righteous a-holes that no matter how far you take your transition, how much money you spend, or how much you know in your mind, in your heart, and in your very soul that your a woman that in-fact you will NEVER have that first period, or pregnancy or ANY of the BEUTIFUL experiences of a biological female. Only THEN can you speak on what it is to be or not to be trans.
Thanks so much, Alysha

“Right to Bear Puns”

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#13
Jan 26, 2013
 

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STEPHMAR wrote:
<quoted text>Mary,there are bio-women who suffer from a pityful ailment where their ovaries,uterus,vagina are incapable of working;including no-period. Some are even married. I don't know about "trannys" [a disrespectful term];but,T-women ARE real women. Eventually bio-women will accept this medical FACT. Mary,do you know that many T-women "like" all other women very much. What is it about T-Women,that you don't like?
XY is still male. An XY "female" would be totally unacceptable to me for a partner as it is nothing more than a male who feels like he should be a female. Before you start calling me a bigot, I am not against reasonable laws that offer some basic acommodation to transpeople that do not put all the burden on the rest of us.

“No Quarter!”

Since: Aug 12

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#14
Jan 26, 2013
 
good punmanship wrote:
<quoted text>XY is still male. An XY "female" would be totally unacceptable to me for a partner as it is nothing more than a male who feels like he should be a female. Before you start calling me a bigot, I am not against reasonable laws that offer some basic acommodation to transpeople that do not put all the burden on the rest of us.
Firstly, there are biological females in the world with an XY chromosome. I know, biology is weird that way isn't it? It's fascinatingly complex, yet still quite random and unpredictable, being able to be affected and manipulated by the slightest of changes and variables in the environment. So it is therefore impossible to put an absolute label on any facet of it. Secondly, it is of no concern to anyone else on this entire planet what is, or is not, acceptable to you as an individual, and is, in fact, quite narcissistic of you to believe that it is. Lastly, there is no burden placed on you, or anyone else for that matter, nor is that the outcome that is sought by any of us. You are free to distance yourself as far from the issue as you like, you know? Also, whilst there, feel free to get over yourself as well.
Thanks, Alysha

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#15
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Angel Diva wrote:
<quoted text>
Firstly, there are biological females in the world with an XY chromosome. I know, biology is weird that way isn't it? It's fascinatingly complex, yet still quite random and unpredictable, being able to be affected and manipulated by the slightest of changes and variables in the environment. So it is therefore impossible to put an absolute label on any facet of it. Secondly, it is of no concern to anyone else on this entire planet what is, or is not, acceptable to you as an individual, and is, in fact, quite narcissistic of you to believe that it is. Lastly, there is no burden placed on you, or anyone else for that matter, nor is that the outcome that is sought by any of us. You are free to distance yourself as far from the issue as you like, you know? Also, whilst there, feel free to get over yourself as well.
Thanks, Alysha
Let me say that I am open to the government making reasonable accomodations short of allowing male to female pre ops to freely use ladies facilities with absolute impunity. And for your information, a simple XY chromosome makeup is a genetic male and a straight XX is a genetic female (Biology 101). Yes I am aware of variations of this chromosomal make up that differ fron the usual XX or XY.

“No Quarter!”

Since: Aug 12

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#16
Jan 27, 2013
 
good punmanship wrote:
<quoted text>Let me say that I am open to the government making reasonable accomodations short of allowing male to female pre ops to freely use ladies facilities with absolute impunity. And for your information, a simple XY chromosome makeup is a genetic male and a straight XX is a genetic female (Biology 101). Yes I am aware of variations of this chromosomal make up that differ fron the usual XX or XY.
Once again, you, like so many others, assume that you are entitled to a say in what rights we as trans people should have. We are not some lesser species to have our rights decided by those who believe themselves our betters. We are no less human than you, so why should our rights be any different? And for your information I'm pre-op, and I use public women's restrooms freely, with never the first question asked. Because as a woman that's the restroom I should be using, and no one questions it. It'd look rather odd with me venturing into the men's room. And too, none of us walk into a restroom with a sign around our neck announcing the fact that we're pre-op TS's, plus we're only in the restroom to do the things that everyone else does in a restroom. It would be nice if people would take time to consider what it is that's actually going on. When people use only uneducated prejudice to form opinions of others, then you get words like "bigot" thrown out. Education, and people actually willing to be educated, will be the one thing that clears up most of the issues surrounding all TG people.

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#17
Jan 27, 2013
 

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Angel Diva wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, you, like so many others, assume that you are entitled to a say in what rights we as trans people should have. We are not some lesser species to have our rights decided by those who believe themselves our betters. We are no less human than you, so why should our rights be any different? And for your information I'm pre-op, and I use public women's restrooms freely, with never the first question asked. Because as a woman that's the restroom I should be using, and no one questions it. It'd look rather odd with me venturing into the men's room. And too, none of us walk into a restroom with a sign around our neck announcing the fact that we're pre-op TS's, plus we're only in the restroom to do the things that everyone else does in a restroom. It would be nice if people would take time to consider what it is that's actually going on. When people use only uneducated prejudice to form opinions of others, then you get words like "bigot" thrown out. Education, and people actually willing to be educated, will be the one thing that clears up most of the issues surrounding all TG people.
We also have a right to say no when pre op transsexual male to females want to invade dressing rooms with impunity where young girls may be present. If you have male plumbing, it doesn't belong in locker rooms and shower stalls especially where little girls may be.I hyave no problem with laws making reasonable accomosations to trans people, but male plumbing in a locker room or the showers where your plumbing might be exposed is unacceptable and over the top. It sounds like you want the rest of society to kiss a certain part of your anatomy so that women and girls will have to be subject to seeing exposed male plumbing in certain situations being inconvenienced greatly so that you will never suffer even the slightest inconvenience.

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#18
Jan 27, 2013
 

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Angel Diva wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, you, like so many others, assume that you are entitled to a say in what rights we as trans people should have. We are not some lesser species to have our rights decided by those who believe themselves our betters. We are no less human than you, so why should our rights be any different? And for your information I'm pre-op, and I use public women's restrooms freely, with never the first question asked. Because as a woman that's the restroom I should be using, and no one questions it. It'd look rather odd with me venturing into the men's room. And too, none of us walk into a restroom with a sign around our neck announcing the fact that we're pre-op TS's, plus we're only in the restroom to do the things that everyone else does in a restroom. It would be nice if people would take time to consider what it is that's actually going on. When people use only uneducated prejudice to form opinions of others, then you get words like "bigot" thrown out. Education, and people actually willing to be educated, will be the one thing that clears up most of the issues surrounding all TG people.
Let me add that you look feminine enough to pass as a lady, so I would not have any major problems with you using ladies rooms as long as you keep the fact that you have male plumbing concealed.

“No Quarter!”

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#19
Jan 27, 2013
 
good punmanship wrote:
<quoted text>Let me add that you look feminine enough to pass as a lady, so I would not have any major problems with you using ladies rooms as long as you keep the fact that you have male plumbing concealed.
Wow, there you go with the permission thing again. As soon as you can stop thinking of yourself in some elevated position where others require your permission just to perform everyday activities, this will all go a lot smoother. And to address the rest of your statement, well, where do I start? Who in the world runs around in a public restroom with all of their bits and bobs showing? Is that something you do? I'm guessing, probably not. You should probably consider what it is you're actually suggesting. As far as locker rooms and other such places are concerned, I would believe the same would apply. I can only speak from personal feelings, but the fact that I'm "pre-op" suggest that I am seeking reassignment surgery, which would in-turn suggest that I'm not happy with certain parts of my body and would like them to be congruent with who I truly am. So therefore all of that would also suggest that I would not want my current parts on display for the world to see. Personally, even after they're changed I wouldn't want them to be seen by random people, even in a locker room setting. That's just how I was raised and how I feel about it. And I believe anyone else's behavior in a similar situation would suggest the same about them, and not suggest the behavior of an entire group. Just something to consider before forming an opinion about, or suggesting the intentions of an entire group. It's called stereotyping, and I think we all know how dangerous that can be. So please, be considerate, not accusatory.

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#20
Jan 27, 2013
 

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Angel Diva wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, there you go with the permission thing again. As soon as you can stop thinking of yourself in some elevated position where others require your permission just to perform everyday activities, this will all go a lot smoother. And to address the rest of your statement, well, where do I start? Who in the world runs around in a public restroom with all of their bits and bobs showing? Is that something you do? I'm guessing, probably not. You should probably consider what it is you're actually suggesting. As far as locker rooms and other such places are concerned, I would believe the same would apply. I can only speak from personal feelings, but the fact that I'm "pre-op" suggest that I am seeking reassignment surgery, which would in-turn suggest that I'm not happy with certain parts of my body and would like them to be congruent with who I truly am. So therefore all of that would also suggest that I would not want my current parts on display for the world to see. Personally, even after they're changed I wouldn't want them to be seen by random people, even in a locker room setting. That's just how I was raised and how I feel about it. And I believe anyone else's behavior in a similar situation would suggest the same about them, and not suggest the behavior of an entire group. Just something to consider before forming an opinion about, or suggesting the intentions of an entire group. It's called stereotyping, and I think we all know how dangerous that can be. So please, be considerate, not accusatory.
You started out by reading things into my post that were never intended. I have already stated that I can support legislation that would grant reasonable concession to the trans community. Unfortunately, you want to ram your own demands down the throats of others rather than engage in give and take discussions that could result in basic protections for the trans community while also taking into consideration legitimate concerns of the rest of us.

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