Transgender Fountain 1st grader banne...

Transgender Fountain 1st grader banned from girls bathroom, discrimination claim filed

There are 108 comments on the Daily Camera story from Feb 26, 2013, titled Transgender Fountain 1st grader banned from girls bathroom, discrimination claim filed. In it, Daily Camera reports that:

The parents of a transgender 6-year-old have filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Division because Eagleside Elementary School in Fountain has banned the 1st grader from using the girl's bathroom.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Camera.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#64 Mar 7, 2013
Why do people like you always turn to the most extreme cases to prove your points when they are representative of no one? My favorite is "Yasss, I feel like a chicken (Dog, monkey, elephant etc) to day so I'm gonna wear some feathers!". We don't just feel like we're female at our core of our being, the feeling is every day and it won't go away. We have our "supermacho" phases where we
try to prove to the world and ourselves what rugged He men we are. But it never works, we're just more miserable. Sooner or later we find ourselves gravitating back to our only true happieness, expressing our female side. So a hell of lot of thought, angst, and misery precede any overt actions on our part. Please find a little about it before you write this drivel.
Regards, Terri
Bernard Continelli wrote:
I'm talking about a person's alleged "right" to (1) come to work in drag simply because they "feel" like the other sex or perhaps a mixture of it, or (2) to use the opposite restroom for the same reason. This is a FAR CRY from merely passing anti-discrimination laws against those who are gay or 'drag it up' on their own time.
I remember in Albany (NY) a few years ago there was this total freak-a-zoid high school student who did-up his hair in really long "points" so that his head looked like an early Sputnik satelite, and to make matters WORSE he claimed that "this hairstyle was an integal part of his homosexuality"! If I had been a fellow 'ordinary-acting' gay student in that school I would have been OUTRAGED to be 'placed in the same category' as him.
The trouble with many members of the gay community is that they feel the obligation to emulate the feakiest gay persons in Greenwich Village, West Hollywood,'Frisco, etc. along with 'fellow aliens' like Lady Gaga ... and yet they themselves live in America's "Peorias" and expect to be totally accepted. THIS is what causes backlashes on this particular topic.
You DON'T have to "externalize" every feeling just to be "chic" if it's going to cause trouble, like the lesbian who before coming out appears no more androgynous than, say, Rachel Maddow, but after doing so "feels the obligation" to shave her head, get mega-tattoos, and go the total bull dyke route, and of course the same goes for the gay male who suddenly "transforms" into a lisping, limp-wrist who acts like his first name is "Elspeth" after coming out.
Yes, I feel sorry for genuine hermaphrodites, and perhaps they could be the exception, but numbers-wise they are few-and-far-between.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#65 Mar 8, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
I'm talking about a person's alleged "right" to (1) come to work in drag simply because they "feel" like the other sex or perhaps a mixture of it, or (2) to use the opposite restroom for the same reason. This is a FAR CRY from merely passing anti-discrimination laws against those who are gay or 'drag it up' on their own time.
I remember in Albany (NY) a few years ago there was this total freak-a-zoid high school student who did-up his hair in really long "points" so that his head looked like an early Sputnik satelite, and to make matters WORSE he claimed that "this hairstyle was an integal part of his homosexuality"! If I had been a fellow 'ordinary-acting' gay student in that school I would have been OUTRAGED to be 'placed in the same category' as him.
The trouble with many members of the gay community is that they feel the obligation to emulate the feakiest gay persons in Greenwich Village, West Hollywood,'Frisco, etc. along with 'fellow aliens' like Lady Gaga ... and yet they themselves live in America's "Peorias" and expect to be totally accepted. THIS is what causes backlashes on this particular topic.
You DON'T have to "externalize" every feeling just to be "chic" if it's going to cause trouble, like the lesbian who before coming out appears no more androgynous than, say, Rachel Maddow, but after doing so "feels the obligation" to shave her head, get mega-tattoos, and go the total bull dyke route, and of course the same goes for the gay male who suddenly "transforms" into a lisping, limp-wrist who acts like his first name is "Elspeth" after coming out.
Yes, I feel sorry for genuine hermaphrodites, and perhaps they could be the exception, but numbers-wise they are few-and-far-between.
So you know nothing about biology, psychology, or genetics. Why did you type all these extra words just to say that?
anna

United States

#66 Mar 8, 2013
Sometimes i get courious about posters i might debate a topic with. Bernard Continelli has some interesting comments around such as:
Bernard Continelli wrote:
I remember going to the SUNY Albany "Rathskellar" (i.e.'bar'... THAT long ago!) to get laid way back in the late 70s when I first moved to the general Albany area.
I wasn't lucky, BUT this Black dude had some dynamite weed to sell me that - when mixed with the beer - got me SO F.U. that I didn't care ...
He is consistant as this 2 yo comment proves
Bernard Continelli wrote:
You're not going to believe this, but I can't stand most gays who don't act 'normal' in every other regard, whether it's a head-shaved, tattooed-to-the-max bull dyke or Lamppost Lance a.k.a. Slutbo'-the-Clone.
!
http://m.topix.com/forum/city/glenmont-ny/T5S...

I am courious if.he is gay because so many of his posts mention gays even when not in a glbt topic
siggif

Pittsburgh, PA

#67 Mar 9, 2013
youtube.com/watch... ………He Girls
no boys in the Girls Room
anna

United States

#68 Mar 10, 2013
alexandra franciska wrote:
(ps- sorry i am geza but changed name, because of confusion i had experienced in some other place on the website!!:D )
Hi Geza, thank you for sharing this and i do understand how it works.

The problem for me is that i simply can not agree with it because it is wrong. I am not saying that you do either.

The very idea of transition for a transsexual could not exist if we wrre to confourm to the majority concepts about gender and sexuality.
Trans people simply want the freedom to be themselves, to deny that right to another trans person simply because they are different is denying that person the right to freedom.
If trans people pick and choose what trans eperson can be included in their group based on their views of socian accepted norms, then they themselves are being just as prejduce and bigoted as their own opperssors.
If it is done simply to gain acceptance quicker, that is selfishness which is also wrong.
I myself am outside the current limited accped views as i am a single parent, lesbian, and trans woman. No matter who we are or where we are from, we are all related, we are all family, brothers and sisters. My neighborhood is 80% Latino and i have many beautiful frends who continusally teach me about their various cultures, taught me how to speek spanish and some myian. as a result of this, i am known by some folks around town as the faggot Mexican lover.
Through this i met several Latino trans women who knew little about obtaining help they needed. Ifound a wonderful impowerment group to get them involved with where they are able to get the needen help. That group was perdomantly black trans women who are very acitve in the community. After learning of the wonderful work they do such as training medical professionals hor to work with trans paitenes, on the street HIV testing for street workers, and finding safe housing for trans people in need, i am now a voulenteer with them.

I could add many more to this but here in the south just being myself places me outside the accepted norms. How can i expect to be accepted if i CHOOSE to deny others their right to be themselves. So though i know and understand the concept of the eleite more socially accepted leaving others behind to suffer, i will not be a part of it. There is pleanty of work i can do until all of us achieve our freedom.
Bernard Continelli

New York, NY

#69 Mar 12, 2013
I've been monogamously married to a woman for eight years, and am low on the Kinsey Scale, although not a perfect "zero" ... but that's NOT the point.

The point is that I am a PERMANENT convert to GENERIC "Booker T. Washington-ism" when it comes to the BROAD topic of "fringed persons trying to go mainstream", and feel that in ANY such movements the "N******" are the REAL 'selfish' folks and the (so called) "Uncle Toms" are the real reformers that deserve to represent such movements in the eyes of 'mainstream, bourgeois America' which will only accept so much before it backlashes against EVERYBODY in the group.

If you (re)read Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness" in a more sociological rather than economic light, she was absolutely right!

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#70 Mar 13, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
I've been monogamously married to a woman for eight years, and am low on the Kinsey Scale, although not a perfect "zero" ... but that's NOT the point.
The point is that I am a PERMANENT convert to GENERIC "Booker T. Washington-ism" when it comes to the BROAD topic of "fringed persons trying to go mainstream", and feel that in ANY such movements the "N******" are the REAL 'selfish' folks and the (so called) "Uncle Toms" are the real reformers that deserve to represent such movements in the eyes of 'mainstream, bourgeois America' which will only accept so much before it backlashes against EVERYBODY in the group.
If you (re)read Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness" in a more sociological rather than economic light, she was absolutely right!
Ayn Rand is an idiot.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#71 Mar 13, 2013
Ayn Rand was no idiot! She was the proscribed opposition to Lenin's Communism. She had seen what socialism/communism do to people. The overwhelming brutality of the state, the domination and crushing of the individual and it sickened her. She dedicated her life to writing in opposition to the criminal Soviet empire. I applaud Her!
Regards, Terri
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Ayn Rand is an idiot.
anna

United States

#72 Mar 13, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
I've been monogamously married to a woman for eight years, and am low on the Kinsey Scale, although not a perfect "zero" ... but that's NOT the point.
The point is that I am a PERMANENT convert to GENERIC "Booker T. Washington-ism" when it comes to the BROAD topic of "fringed persons trying to go mainstream", and feel that in ANY such movements the "N******" are the REAL 'selfish' folks and the (so called) "Uncle Toms" are the real reformers that deserve to represent such movements in the eyes of 'mainstream, bourgeois America' which will only accept so much before it backlashes against EVERYBODY in the group.
If you (re)read Ayn Rand's "The Virtue of Selfishness" in a more sociological rather than economic light, she was absolutely right!
Thank you for answering my question as to if you are lgbti. I noticed you state " monogamously" for 8 years. I am sure at your age, that you have a past history of some kind. I was in a monogamous marriage for 11 years before i became a single parent. For the past 7 years i have been dating 1 woman. So if by stating " monogamously", could have somehow implied your relationship is different from lgbt folks, it is no different from my own.

If one were to follow Washington and Rayn, there would have been no civil rights movement or equal rights laws.

We are in a different time now and it is the time fot trans people to follow through with the actions, dreams, and goals of " Du Bois" trans folks that came before us.

I clearly see Washingtonism (change has to come from within the trans community before acceptance), and Rand's (selfishness), concepts within your comments.
Bernard Continelli wrote:
For YEARS I've been saying that BOTH the "bad boy/girl" AND "New Age hippie" (e.g. militant vegan) images were detrimental to mainstreaming the movement and making it acceptable to "bourgeois" (middle class minded) America.
I just want pot legal as fast as possible and have NO interest in making it look like the choice drug of old-style,'nasty' gansta-rappers NOR the opposite extreme: the Jainist / ultra-pacifist mindset.
http://m.topix.com/forum/entertainment/T95DH2...

Sweeping change withih the trans community will come once we gain our freedom and civil rights.
anna

United States

#73 Mar 13, 2013
Interesting is that Rand, an opponant of government hand outs, in her last years, took advantage of government program.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/micha...

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#74 Mar 17, 2013
Ky girl wrote:
<quoted text> he is a boy.
Kitten doesn't believe that a visible penis is evidence of gender, including the one he hides under his Catholic school girl costume.

xD

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#75 Mar 17, 2013
TerryE wrote:
Ayn Rand was no idiot! She was the proscribed opposition to Lenin's Communism. She had seen what socialism/communism do to people. The overwhelming brutality of the state, the domination and crushing of the individual and it sickened her. She dedicated her life to writing in opposition to the criminal Soviet empire. I applaud Her!
Regards, Terri
<quoted text>
Kitten hates all real women.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#76 Mar 17, 2013
geza wrote:
<quoted text>...
when i was born, i was baby girl. so this means, everything went right as fetus. i have XX chromosome, i was born with female body, female brain, and female soul :)
the only difference between me and transwoman, is sadly that the yare transsexual so something went wrong in development. they have female everything, but male body.
but of course, hormone therapy and surgery makes their body female as well. like most females who are intelligent like me and others, the average female, will see transsexual female as simply female as well. i do not care. which is why i think it is dumb that this little girl cannot use bathroom. she is woman - let her use woman bathroom! it is frustrating, that it is mostly men who are always so hateful & rude to people.
Surgery and hormone use will never turn you into the opposite sex. A male will never develop ovaries from surgery or female hormone use and a female will never grow a prostate and produce semen from taking male hormones or surgery. You can mutilate your body with all the surgery you want but it will never change your sex. You should work out why your mind is malfunctioning instead.

Since: Jan 09

Central NJ

#77 Mar 17, 2013
Oh hang it up! Thousands of fully transitioned Transexuals are happy with the changes. Sure they can't have children, but neither can some cisgendered women. Realize this, Transitional surgery (SRS) is theraputic. It's not done on a whim.
Regards, Terri
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Surgery and hormone use will never turn you into the opposite sex. A male will never develop ovaries from surgery or female hormone use and a female will never grow a prostate and produce semen from taking male hormones or surgery. You can mutilate your body with all the surgery you want but it will never change your sex. You should work out why your mind is malfunctioning instead.
anna

United States

#78 Mar 17, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Surgery and hormone use will never turn you into the opposite sex. A male will never develop ovaries from surgery or female hormone use and a female will never grow a prostate and produce semen from taking male hormones or surgery. You can mutilate your body with all the surgery you want but it will never change your sex. You should work out why your mind is malfunctioning instead.
first you need to study a bit more biology
The female prostate gland is
housed in the sponge and their
openings are embedded into the
urethra. This is how fluid from the
prostate gland travels down the
path of the urethra and is ejaculated
from the urethral opening. This
system can be likened to the
prostate in males, which also
surrounds the urethra and
facilitates ejaculation.

Like the G spot, female ejaculation
is controversial and many people
feel uncomfortable discussing or
even imagining that a woman, like a
man, could ejaculate. However, the
concept is not so ridiculous when
we acknowledge that all embryos
appear to be female until about
eight to 10 weeks gestation, when
embryos containing an X and Y
(male) chromosome begin to
produce testosterone, and
subsequently grow male sexual
features.

As a consequence, many aspects of
our anatomy that outwardly appear
quite different do in fact reflect each
other. For example, the clitoral hood
can be likened to the foreskin of a
penis; the internal clitoral legs are
similar to the erectile chambers in
the shaft of the penis; and the head
of the clitoris can be likened to the
head of a penis. The seam down the
middle of a man’s scrotal sack is
where the parts that would become
the labia in a female have joined
together to form the scrotum.
http://www.awakeningwithin.org.au/g-spot--fem...

The female prostate revisited: perineal
ultrasound and biochemical studies of
female ejaculate.
RESULTS: On high-definition perineal
ultrasound images, a structure was identified
consistent with the gland tissue surrounding the
entire length of the female urethra. On
urethroscopy, one midline opening (duct) was
seen just inside the external meatus in the six-o'clock position. Biochemically, the fluid emitted
during orgasm showed all the parameters found
in prostate plasma in contrast to the values
measured in voided urine.

CONCLUSIONS: Data of the two women
presented further underline the concept of the
female prostate both as an organ itself and as
the source of female ejaculation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17634056...
alexandra franciska

Guelph, Canada

#79 Mar 17, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Surgery and hormone use will never turn you into the opposite sex. A male will never develop ovaries from surgery or female hormone use and a female will never grow a prostate and produce semen from taking male hormones or surgery. You can mutilate your body with all the surgery you want but it will never change your sex. You should work out why your mind is malfunctioning instead.
your mind fumbles around in ignorance.(i am learning poetry in english, to add new words to my vocab. and adjectives and verbs. it is helpful :D)

the mind and brain is sufficiently feminized in males or masculinized in males. beyond biological reasons for transsexualism as a medical condition, only transition and surgeries have been succesfull in treating it.

there are also genetic reasons. the way the brain works, and the pathways.

no matter what, a male physically with a female brain will never truly be male. they are more female than anything else. surgery and hormones correct the body to line up with the brain. there is no way to correct the brain to line up with the body, or else it would be a viable treatment option. simply giving more testosterone will not work, because when the brain is developed, that is it. if it develops male or female, is up to your genetics and biology.

also - chromosomes do not matter. chromosomes are simply a switch which determine physical aspects of development. such as triggering the ovaries/undifferentiated gonads into developing as testis. however, if otherwise the brain is in opposition to the body, that is just as set in stone as chromosomes. so a transwoman may never be XY, but outside of 9 months of development, it does not matter. chromosomes are not a determinant in measuring somebodies femaleness or maleness.

also, lots of woman do not have ovaries, or even a womb. lots of men have undifferentiated testis, which function more similar to ovaries. are they not men or women? lots of men are infertile, some men cannot even produce semen. so they are not male in your world? do not be, such a stupid ignorant person.

also, there are XXY, XYY, XXX, XXXX people out there. so what are they? some males develop breasts and even lactate, so they are woman now? they are not male? they have male brain? they think like male? but their body is intersex and develops female aspects. i guess that is normal. they should do nothing to fix it.

ignorants like you make me sad. i have only seen such ignorance and inpoliteness in north amerika and it makes me very very sad.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#80 Mar 17, 2013
alexandra franciska wrote:
<quoted text>
your mind fumbles around in ignorance.(i am learning poetry in english, to add new words to my vocab. and adjectives and verbs. it is helpful :D)
the mind and brain is sufficiently feminized in males or masculinized in males. beyond biological reasons for transsexualism as a medical condition, only transition and surgeries have been succesfull in treating it.
there are also genetic reasons. the way the brain works, and the pathways.
no matter what, a male physically with a female brain will never truly be male. they are more female than anything else. surgery and hormones correct the body to line up with the brain. there is no way to correct the brain to line up with the body, or else it would be a viable treatment option. simply giving more testosterone will not work, because when the brain is developed, that is it. if it develops male or female, is up to your genetics and biology.
also - chromosomes do not matter. chromosomes are simply a switch which determine physical aspects of development. such as triggering the ovaries/undifferentiated gonads into developing as testis. however, if otherwise the brain is in opposition to the body, that is just as set in stone as chromosomes. so a transwoman may never be XY, but outside of 9 months of development, it does not matter. chromosomes are not a determinant in measuring somebodies femaleness or maleness.
also, lots of woman do not have ovaries, or even a womb. lots of men have undifferentiated testis, which function more similar to ovaries. are they not men or women? lots of men are infertile, some men cannot even produce semen. so they are not male in your world? do not be, such a stupid ignorant person.
also, there are XXY, XYY, XXX, XXXX people out there. so what are they? some males develop breasts and even lactate, so they are woman now? they are not male? they have male brain? they think like male? but their body is intersex and develops female aspects. i guess that is normal. they should do nothing to fix it.
ignorants like you make me sad. i have only seen such ignorance and inpoliteness in north amerika and it makes me very very sad.
Lactation does not turn a man into a woman.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...

Idiot.
alexandra franciska

Guelph, Canada

#81 Mar 18, 2013
you were using biological determinism (woman cannot produce semen, so they are not men (in reference to transmen)) as markers of sex and gender, so it was a fair assumption.

also, i see you did not reply to anything in my post, but insulted me. typical ad hominem arguments. is this something to be expected of north amerikans? when i was living home in europe in scientific debates you had to respond to the content of the response, not attack the character of the person speaking it.

like i said. not every woman has eggs. or a womb. or ovaries. or can have children. i guess theyre not women in your world, where being able to produce semen is a sign of true male and having working ovaries is a sign of true female.
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Lactation does not turn a man into a woman.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...
Idiot.
Reagan

Dallas, GA

#82 Mar 18, 2013
Your comments are very cisist. Legally yes, hormones and surgery will turn a trans person body into the opposite sex. Your rants about whether or not someone could not produce offspring are the litmus to whether or not they are the true sex is a flawed theory. If a woman has an ovarian hysterectomy is she not a woman now? If a man has his testicles or prostate removed does those not make him a man? I have a friend that was born with only had one testicle so is he half man? It's nice for you that you never have to worry about these things as a cisgender, but thousands of people are diagnosed and deal with this every year. You suggest that trans people have something wrong with their mind. Actually, most transgender people are among some of the most intelligent people. When you actually think about it, It’s their bodies that are wrong not the persons brain. there is a study that was published in New Science last year that showed actual brain scans if trans gender people and the cisgender counter parts. It’s pretty revealing and the data suggest that trans people have normal working brain of the sex that does not match the biological body. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of ignorance that people CHOOSE to have about this topic considering the amount of published data. Your rant is nothing more than that a rant and a very ignorant rant at best. Yes, people may be born with a body mostly of one sex and a mind or brain of the other gender. I would like you to go find one shred of evidence that shows me where someone could change their gender. You know the mind…. You can’t it’s been tried unsuccessfully for decades before medical research determined that it’s actually the body that needs to change. There will soon come a day when science and medical advancements will allow trans people working sex organs and they will be able to bare children. What then? So take your caveman club of a brain and go back under the rock form which you crawled! No one really cares what you think anyway!
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Surgery and hormone use will never turn you into the opposite sex. A male will never develop ovaries from surgery or female hormone use and a female will never grow a prostate and produce semen from taking male hormones or surgery. You can mutilate your body with all the surgery you want but it will never change your sex. You should work out why your mind is malfunctioning instead.
anna

United States

#83 Mar 18, 2013
alexandra franciska wrote:
you were using biological determinism (woman cannot produce semen, so they are not men (in reference to transmen)) as markers of sex and gender, so it was a fair assumption.
also, i see you did not reply to anything in my post, but insulted me. typical ad hominem arguments. is this something to be expected of north amerikans? when i was living home in europe in scientific debates you had to respond to the content of the response, not attack the character of the person speaking it.
like i said. not every woman has eggs. or a womb. or ovaries. or can have children. i guess theyre not women in your world, where being able to produce semen is a sign of true male and having working ovaries is a sign of true female.
<quoted text>
Total Gender Change within a Decade
By: Valkyrie Ice
Published: November 28, 2010
http://hplusmagazine.com/2010/11/28/total-gen...

The finding is significant because it means that
a baby's sex is not determined solely by X and Y
chromosomes in the sperm.
When the scientists used a genetic trick to
switch off Sox9 in adult female mice, FoxL2
rapidly sprung into action.
The animals' eggs shrivelled up and the cells in
their ovaries turned into those found in the
testicles, including a type the nurse sperm
through their development. Other cells started
to produce testosterone.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-123...

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