Transgender Fountain 1st grader banne...

Transgender Fountain 1st grader banned from girls bathroom, discrimination claim filed

There are 108 comments on the Daily Camera story from Feb 26, 2013, titled Transgender Fountain 1st grader banned from girls bathroom, discrimination claim filed. In it, Daily Camera reports that:

The parents of a transgender 6-year-old have filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Division because Eagleside Elementary School in Fountain has banned the 1st grader from using the girl's bathroom.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Camera.

geza

Toronto, Canada

#43 Mar 2, 2013
anna wrote:
<quoted text> Hi Geza, your english is probably better then mine..
You said female soul and brain, would you mind explaining more about transsexuals and female soul?
Thank you.
I delivr being transsexual is more then phsyical differance and are part of.natural life design.
Transsexuals are part of life for a reason.
thank you :D

so many compliments! it is nice to know i have mastered one more language. you do not speak good english as well as me? if you speak hungarian or finnish we can have a more full conversation :)

i will do my best, to explain my thought to you in english!

i say female soul, because i think it is different than brain. your body is pure physical. your body is not what dictates, as i think, if you are male or female. your brain is also physical, but it is also psychological (can't tell if thats right word - o well :D).

but where does your 'thought' come from? science cannot explain this. your brain is like computer - like a computer hard drive, your brain is all cells. of this, is your neuron. it is also like computer, because neuron will talk to second neuron, through electrical impulse.

when you are scared... physically, your neuron talks. it shoots norepenephrine, which is brain chemical :D which gives you a fight-or-flight response to it. but your thought? your manifestation of fear, where does it come from?

when you are physical with someone, your neurones talk too :D they shoot oxytocin, and dopamine, which make you feel good.

but where does the love come from? where are your thoughts to that person that you are in love with? that you care for? we cannot track this in science.

i use the word soul, because in english i cannot think of better word. but i dont mean it in strict sense, like it is a invisible thingy from god. i mean, it is a manifestation of YOU. who you are. your thoughts, and feelings. this is what i mean when i say soul.

so. to go over what i have said:

body - physical
brain - psyiological (physical, and psychologica)
soul - pure psychological. it is you, and all your thoughts. it is who are are, as person.

so how doesthis relate to transsexual? i will explain for transsexual woman:

as a fetus, the switch is flicked on by chromosome. XY. so the physical body develops, as male. however, something goes wrong. testosterone should flood the baby, but it does not. estrogen does. so the brain, is female.

they are born. and with their female brain, all their thoughts and who they are, is female. they know they are not male. they wish to transition (i belief the word is male to female transsexual, or MtF as english slang word) MtF. their soul is truly female.

this is what i mean. and this is why i think it is dumb, so dumb, that people do not understand. they are female. they are no less female, than someone with XX chromosome.

when i was born, i was baby girl. so this means, everything went right as fetus. i have XX chromosome, i was born with female body, female brain, and female soul :)

the only difference between me and transwoman, is sadly that the yare transsexual so something went wrong in development. they have female everything, but male body.

but of course, hormone therapy and surgery makes their body female as well. like most females who are intelligent like me and others, the average female, will see transsexual female as simply female as well. i do not care. which is why i think it is dumb that this little girl cannot use bathroom. she is woman - let her use woman bathroom! it is frustrating, that it is mostly men who are always so hateful & rude to people.

does this make sense to you, and every one else? i am sorry, when it comes to '"philosophical" discussion, sometimes it is hard to say. like, in english their is no word for "who you are". and "love" is just one word. in language i have learned, hungarian and finnish (and german but i can not speak it :D) there are many words and ways to describe things like this... words like love

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#44 Mar 2, 2013
geza wrote:
<quoted text>
thank you :D
so many compliments! it is nice to know i have mastered one more language. you do not speak good english as well as me? if you speak hungarian or finnish we can have a more full conversation :)
i will do my best, to explain my thought to you in english!
....
You do utilize English much better than most USians, well better than most Americans as a whole actually. You are also very learned, though I don't buy the whole "soul" thing, everything you have stated based on genetics has been pretty accurate.
geza

Toronto, Canada

#45 Mar 2, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You do utilize English much better than most USians, well better than most Americans as a whole actually. You are also very learned, though I don't buy the whole "soul" thing, everything you have stated based on genetics has been pretty accurate.
haha koszi! thank you KittenKoder

and yes i think it is because my knowledge of medical condition such as transsexual is based, of course, in science. however my talk about the soul is just a theory i have :D it does not make it true of course!

although i may have said it incorrect. i did not mean soul as in the soul that the christian, or jew, or moslim believe. i just mean it as, who you are as a person, your thoughts and feelings. science cannot explain what is called "your inner being". they can explain your brain, brain patterns, neurons, and parts of brain which control aspects of you, and your motor function. but your thoughts? what makes you, as you are? that is what i mean

it is not literal soul of course :D maybe when i learn more i can explain it better :D
geza

Toronto, Canada

#46 Mar 2, 2013
and i did not even have to go into what is called intersex conditions! although im sure if more people are posting rude or bigot posts i will have to also explain intersex to them, if they think it is so rigid they have to define male or female in a certain way.

if you can be born XXY, or XXX, or XYY or anything, what can you be? if you have hermaphroditic condition? or undifferentiated genitalia? people do not understand sexual dimorphism. if we accept that nature can mess a persons physical sex up, then i do not see why people do not understand that nature can also mess a persons brain sex up as well :D

there is only one difference. intersex can be physical, and transsexual is in the brain. but transgender - phobic people will only see the body, or accept intersex condition because 'that is way they are born'. it is so stupid, because they turn around and then reject transsexual and all the science behind it as well.

people, as they say, will find any reason to be hateful i think. no matter what fact, or logic, or rational they have to ignore to support their hate :D

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#47 Mar 2, 2013
geza wrote:
and i did not even have to go into what is called intersex conditions! although im sure if more people are posting rude or bigot posts i will have to also explain intersex to them, if they think it is so rigid they have to define male or female in a certain way.
if you can be born XXY, or XXX, or XYY or anything, what can you be? if you have hermaphroditic condition? or undifferentiated genitalia? people do not understand sexual dimorphism. if we accept that nature can mess a persons physical sex up, then i do not see why people do not understand that nature can also mess a persons brain sex up as well :D
there is only one difference. intersex can be physical, and transsexual is in the brain. but transgender - phobic people will only see the body, or accept intersex condition because 'that is way they are born'. it is so stupid, because they turn around and then reject transsexual and all the science behind it as well.
people, as they say, will find any reason to be hateful i think. no matter what fact, or logic, or rational they have to ignore to support their hate :D
No matter how many actual facts you explain to the bigots, they'll keep hating, because they want to hate. That's what makes bigotry so vile, it's not that they can't help it, it's that they don't want to be better people. However, posting the positive stuff to counter their hatred does help those out there who are worried about being themselves, it lets those people who are in such situations know that most of humanity is evolving and progressing.

Also, standing up to bigots just feels good in your heart.

“Don't steal my happy”

Since: Aug 12

Shelbyville, Ky.

#48 Mar 3, 2013
geza wrote:
and i did not even have to go into what is called intersex conditions! although im sure if more people are posting rude or bigot posts i will have to also explain intersex to them, if they think it is so rigid they have to define male or female in a certain way.
if you can be born XXY, or XXX, or XYY or anything, what can you be? if you have hermaphroditic condition? or undifferentiated genitalia? people do not understand sexual dimorphism. if we accept that nature can mess a persons physical sex up, then i do not see why people do not understand that nature can also mess a persons brain sex up as well :D
there is only one difference. intersex can be physical, and transsexual is in the brain. but transgender - phobic people will only see the body, or accept intersex condition because 'that is way they are born'. it is so stupid, because they turn around and then reject transsexual and all the science behind it as well.
people, as they say, will find any reason to be hateful i think. no matter what fact, or logic, or rational they have to ignore to support their hate :D
I think your articulation of the English language has been well above sufficient enough to covey your message. A message that is beautiful, to the point, well informed and educated, and most importantly, very much appreciated!! And Kitten is right, haters will always find a way to hate. All we can do is just let them hate and get on with our lives, a point emphasized by American stand-up comedian, Katt Williams. http://www.youtube.com/watch...
anna

United States

#49 Mar 4, 2013
geza wrote:
<quoted text>
thank you :D
so many compliments! it is nice to know i have mastered one more language. you do not speak good english as well as me? if you speak hungarian or finnish we can have a more full conversation :)
i will do my best, to explain my thought to you in english!
i say female soul, because i think it is different than brain. your body is pure physical. your body is not what dictates, as i think, if you are male or female. your brain is also physical, but it is also psychological (can't tell if thats right word - o well :D).
but where does your 'thought' come from? science cannot explain this. your brain is like computer - like a computer hard drive, your brain is all cells. of this, is your neuron. it is also like computer, because neuron will talk to second neuron, through electrical impulse.
when you are scared... physically, your neuron talks. it shoots norepenephrine, which is brain chemical :D which gives you a fight-or-flight response to it. but your thought? your manifestation of fear, where does it come from?
when you are physical with someone, your neurones talk too :D they shoot oxytocin, and dopamine, which make you feel good.
but where does the love come from? where are your thoughts to that person that you are in love with? that you care for? we cannot track this in science.
i use the word soul, because in english i cannot think of better word. but i dont mean it in strict sense, like it is a invisible thingy from god. i mean, it is a manifestation of YOU. who you are. your thoughts, and feelings. this is what i mean when i say soul.
Köszönöm. For sharing your knowledge and thoughts.
I like to use the term "Natural nature" to describe some of those thoughts you describe. To me, this naturan nature comes from the soul. I do not believe the common taught christian view of soul either. Believe we are here to learn and grow and once we leave this live, we will have greater knowledge and understanding.
People all over the world suffer in various forms and for many various reasons often as a result of the cuture they life in so the end results vary.

Transsexuals in this culture learn much about oppression, rejection, and acceptance just to name a few. I think acceptance is one of the most important ones, but true acceptance comes from withen ones self. Sadly many trans people never gain this accptance.

For myself it came about in great part through studying adout why there is so much opression and suffering in the world and throughout history.
It is sad that so many of us cant see that we are alljust a part of the human family, each with our own special gifts and tallents to offer. We can offer our best when we are allowed to be oueselves, who we are. Perhaps when we our express rfrom within our soul.

I agree with the hphsyical and biological differances in trans people and believe it is just a normal part of our human diversity
anna

United States

#50 Mar 4, 2013
Sorry about all the errors in the text. I am useing mobile right now and despise this little screen and keyboard!!!
Viszontlátásra.

And yes i lookend that up!
I only speek english, fair spanish and a little of my native Tsalagi
Bernard Continelli

New York, NY

#51 Mar 5, 2013
My own comments are not based on 'hate', just practicality: SOME lines have to be drawn somewhere especially when dealing with "mainstream bourgeois America" or IT SABOTAGES THE WHOLE 'LIBERATION' MOVEMENT.

As the U.S. President in the Cold War Doomsday classic "Fail Safe" put it when he made the decision to nuke New York City IF the U.S. bombers successfully nuked Moscow to avoid an all-out nuclear war: "We must sacrifice some so that others can survive".

If you have a pro-pot rally which is populated mostly by the New Age-y freak-a-zoids from the Jennifer Anniston screwball comedy "Wanderlust", this TOO will have a negative impact on getting marijuana legalized. My belief in "generic Booker T. Washington-ism" has NOTHING to do with hate, but mere practicality.
anna

United States

#52 Mar 5, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
My own comments are not based on 'hate', just practicality: SOME lines have to be drawn somewhere especially when dealing with "mainstream bourgeois America" or IT SABOTAGES THE WHOLE 'LIBERATION' MOVEMENT.
As the U.S. President in the Cold War Doomsday classic "Fail Safe" put it when he made the decision to nuke New York City IF the U.S. bombers successfully nuked Moscow to avoid an all-out nuclear war: "We must sacrifice some so that others can survive".
If you have a pro-pot rally which is populated mostly by the New Age-y freak-a-zoids from the Jennifer Anniston screwball comedy "Wanderlust", this TOO will have a negative impact on getting marijuana legalized. My belief in "generic Booker T. Washington-ism" has NOTHING to do with hate, but mere practicality.
What lines in the sand, and for who's movement?
anna

United States

#53 Mar 5, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
My own comments are not based on 'hate', just practicality: SOME lines have to be drawn somewhere especially when dealing with "mainstream bourgeois America" or IT SABOTAGES THE WHOLE 'LIBERATION' MOVEMENT.
As the U.S. President in the Cold War Doomsday classic "Fail Safe" put it when he made the decision to nuke New York City IF the U.S. bombers successfully nuked Moscow to avoid an all-out nuclear war: "We must sacrifice some so that others can survive".
If you have a pro-pot rally which is populated mostly by the New Age-y freak-a-zoids from the Jennifer Anniston screwball comedy "Wanderlust", this TOO will have a negative impact on getting marijuana legalized. My belief in "generic Booker T. Washington-ism" has NOTHING to do with hate, but mere practicality.
What lines in the sand and for who's movement?
anna

United States

#54 Mar 5, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
My own comments are not based on 'hate', just practicality: SOME lines have to be drawn somewhere especially when dealing with "mainstream bourgeois America" or IT SABOTAGES THE WHOLE 'LIBERATION' MOVEMENT.
After reading some of your from other topics, i think i understand the point you are trying to make about transsexuals. Please explain in more detail if i am wrong.

Here is one such comment you
Bernard Continelli wrote:
I'd like to stage a series of public demonstrations where BOTH the Holy Bible AND the Quran are BURNED!
This will likely set off a series of national RIOTS whereupon (1) Lotsa fundamantalist Christians and devout Muslims will KILL EACH OTHER(the funsie part!) and (2) The government will put pressure on the U.S. Supreme Court next year to declare DOMA unconstitutional and advocates of same-sex marriage will get what they want AND we won't have to hear about this bulls*it anymore.
I don't know why the militant gays didn't think of this strategy from day one instead of parading around in speedos with lispy vocals and limp wrists, or perhaps the closet lesbian who before she comes out looks no more androgynous than, say, Rachel Maddow, but upon coming out feels the "obligation" to shave her head and get mega-tattoos.
I don't respect extreme flamboyance in ANY "liberation" movement that's looked down upon and trying to go 'legit'. Generic "Booker T. Washington-ism" applies to them EVEN MORE than it did to early Blacks. I feel the same way about the marijuana legalization movement too. Pot legalization rallies could do without those who over-bash all "synthetic" medicines - even longtime proven ones with no bad side effects - or the kind of Jainist freaktoids with their smug vegan attitudes.
Again, they're both trying for mainstream acceptance, but ultimately ruining it for fellow comrades who are basically normal in other regards.
http://m.topix.com/forum/news/gay/TRCBTKVVL4N...

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#55 Mar 6, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
My own comments are not based on 'hate', just practicality: SOME lines have to be drawn somewhere especially when dealing with "mainstream bourgeois America" or IT SABOTAGES THE WHOLE 'LIBERATION' MOVEMENT.
As the U.S. President in the Cold War Doomsday classic "Fail Safe" put it when he made the decision to nuke New York City IF the U.S. bombers successfully nuked Moscow to avoid an all-out nuclear war: "We must sacrifice some so that others can survive".
If you have a pro-pot rally which is populated mostly by the New Age-y freak-a-zoids from the Jennifer Anniston screwball comedy "Wanderlust", this TOO will have a negative impact on getting marijuana legalized. My belief in "generic Booker T. Washington-ism" has NOTHING to do with hate, but mere practicality.
The only negative impact thus far is the violence and destruction directly caused by bigots such as yourself. Let's look at the facts, I know you hate those as well:

1. Countries where marijuana is either legal or disregarded completely are ahead of the US in areas of scientific contributions in this century.

2. Countries that support or allow gay marriage are ahead of the US in peace and violence cessation.

3. Countries where people are allowed to live without religion by choice in this century are ahead of the US in liberties and happiness.

See the trend yet? This trend destroys your entire stance.
Bernard Continelli

New York, NY

#56 Mar 6, 2013
You didn't read ALL my posts - I'm FOR all of this, but there's limits that the 'mainstream' will accept and "pushing the envelope" too far just causes BACKLASHES and always hurts the more "conservative" persons in any given 'liberation' movement. I merely maintain that their interests should come BEFORE the 'radicals', plain and simple.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#57 Mar 6, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
You didn't read ALL my posts - I'm FOR all of this, but there's limits that the 'mainstream' will accept and "pushing the envelope" too far just causes BACKLASHES and always hurts the more "conservative" persons in any given 'liberation' movement. I merely maintain that their interests should come BEFORE the 'radicals', plain and simple.
Your yelling is confusing, it makes you appear as a nut. Do you think that any decent change in human history is not without backlash? All positive change will always have people who are inherently wrong attempting to discredit and even attack those who are pushing for the positive change, always, there is no easy way, there is no "happy" medium, we need positive change in the country and anyone against that change will need to learn to shut up and sit quietly in their little caves. There is no limit, a change is either positive or negative, a positive change is to stop harming our children with these idiotic and outdated notions of things like conformity, even gender conformity.
alexandra franciska

Oakville, Canada

#58 Mar 6, 2013
i think i understand what continelli is saying.

i remember learning this in my osztályok back home. it is not 100% similar, but it has... similar intent.

i had to use translate for this lol.

dicsfény hatás = "halo effect. it is by which somebody who is attractive, liked, or loved, transfers their positive qualities and only their positive qualities, to the group in which they represent"

i think that turned out well. this is similar to what continelli is saying. by having the most social accepted person or demand, you are more likely to get acceptance.

and once you have that acceptance, you move up slowly from there. i did not sense he had bad intention or hated transsexual.

do not be so surprised, because this is actual tactic used by no other people but.... LGBT people! yes, this is 1950 and 1960, homosexual right is now just becoming in every one's mind. the conservative people do not like it. the liberal, because they are liberal, are always going to be compassion ate to these people, but even liberals have their doubts.

nobody wants to endorse homosexual right... why? because the most stigmatized group, transsexual/transgender, is too extreme for the time frame. so modern gay politicians, and gay right activists dropped transsexual rights from their list of demands. now, liberal politician will sponsor this, it becomes part of their platform. the conservative has less in his cannon of 'lgbt-hate' because he can only focus his dislike on homosexual, rather than homosexual AND transsexual.

this was something... that actually happened. and even though it is sad, it DID work!!! but it requires you to have to put aside some of your values, to get this done.

so how does this translate to today? well the biggest issue... is always that men are seen as sick more than women... socially sick. so like, if someone says "murder"/'rape" /'robbery'/'sexual deviant' they think "oh, it is man". it is sad, but true. people will assume gay family who is dad dad, is worse than gay family who is woman-woman.

so the shift has been from MtF transpeople, to FtM transpeople. people are more likely to accept, that a born-female with transsexualism is suffering a true condition, compared to born-male.

second: issue of passing, is central in transsexual politics. and it is biggest worry for transpeople.

people will assume an attractive transwoman, has true medical condition. they will like her, because she is attractive. attractiveness sells, in every culture in every part of the world. they will assume she has had harder life.

this is the classic "halo effect". this is what our italian friend has suggested we do, to get transsexual rights passed.

it is sad, of course. a transwoman who does not pass, is not any less of a woman than a transwoman who does pass. it is a sad... statement of what our society is like. but medical science has shown us, time and time again, that people will always assume better things of attractive person, than unattractive person...
alexandra franciska

Oakville, Canada

#59 Mar 7, 2013
(ps- sorry i am geza but changed name, because of confusion i had experienced in some other place on the website!!:D )
Bernard Continelli

New York, NY

#61 Mar 7, 2013
I'm talking about a person's alleged "right" to (1) come to work in drag simply because they "feel" like the other sex or perhaps a mixture of it, or (2) to use the opposite restroom for the same reason. This is a FAR CRY from merely passing anti-discrimination laws against those who are gay or 'drag it up' on their own time.

I remember in Albany (NY) a few years ago there was this total freak-a-zoid high school student who did-up his hair in really long "points" so that his head looked like an early Sputnik satelite, and to make matters WORSE he claimed that "this hairstyle was an integal part of his homosexuality"! If I had been a fellow 'ordinary-acting' gay student in that school I would have been OUTRAGED to be 'placed in the same category' as him.

The trouble with many members of the gay community is that they feel the obligation to emulate the feakiest gay persons in Greenwich Village, West Hollywood,'Frisco, etc. along with 'fellow aliens' like Lady Gaga ... and yet they themselves live in America's "Peorias" and expect to be totally accepted. THIS is what causes backlashes on this particular topic.

You DON'T have to "externalize" every feeling just to be "chic" if it's going to cause trouble, like the lesbian who before coming out appears no more androgynous than, say, Rachel Maddow, but after doing so "feels the obligation" to shave her head, get mega-tattoos, and go the total bull dyke route, and of course the same goes for the gay male who suddenly "transforms" into a lisping, limp-wrist who acts like his first name is "Elspeth" after coming out.

Yes, I feel sorry for genuine hermaphrodites, and perhaps they could be the exception, but numbers-wise they are few-and-far-between.
anna

United States

#62 Mar 7, 2013
Bernard Continelli wrote:
I'm talking about a person's alleged "right" to (1) come to work in drag simply because they "feel" like the other sex or perhaps a mixture of it, or (2) to use the opposite restroom for the same reason. This is a FAR CRY from merely passing anti-discrimination laws against those who are gay or 'drag it up' on their own time.
I remember in Albany (NY) a few years ago there was this total freak-a-zoid high school student who did-up his hair in really long "points" so that his head looked like an early Sputnik satelite, and to make matters WORSE he claimed that "this hairstyle was an integal part of his homosexuality"! If I had been a fellow 'ordinary-acting' gay student in that school I would have been OUTRAGED to be 'placed in the same category' as him.
The trouble with many members of the gay community is that they feel the obligation to emulate the feakiest gay persons in Greenwich Village, West Hollywood,'Frisco, etc. along with 'fellow aliens' like Lady Gaga ... and yet they themselves live in America's "Peorias" and expect to be totally accepted. THIS is what causes backlashes on this particular topic.
You DON'T have to "externalize" every feeling just to be "chic" if it's going to cause trouble, like the lesbian who before coming out appears no more androgynous than, say, Rachel Maddow, but after doing so "feels the obligation" to shave her head, get mega-tattoos, and go the total bull dyke route, and of course the same goes for the gay male who suddenly "transforms" into a lisping, limp-wrist who acts like his first name is "Elspeth" after coming out.
Yes, I feel sorry for genuine hermaphrodites, and perhaps they could be the exception, but numbers-wise they are few-and-far-between.
A question please, are you lgbt,or i?
Free OJ Now

Charlottesville, VA

#63 Mar 7, 2013
I like transformers.

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