Why should Australians fear from Musl...

Why should Australians fear from Muslims?

There are 46739 comments on the Scoop story from Dec 23, 2007, titled Why should Australians fear from Muslims?. In it, Scoop reports that:

About 800 people gathered in Camden, NSW and raised their voice against the plan for an Islamic School to be built in the area.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Scoop.

Biggly Bogan BOOOOOOs

Wiley Park, Australia

#43323 Oct 20, 2013
WEEKEND EDITION OCTOBER 18-20, 2013

The Descenders
Why Are So Many Jews Leaving Israel?
by URI AVNERY

THOSE WHO are interested in the history of the Crusades ask themselves: what brought about the Crusaders’ downfall? Looking at the remnants of their proud fortresses all over the country, we wonder.

The traditional answer is: their defeat in the battle of the Horns of Hattin, twin hills near the Lake of Galilee, in 1187, by the great Muslim Sultan Salah ad-Din (Saladin).

However, the Crusader state lived on in Palestine and the surroundings for another hundred years.

The most authoritative historian of the Crusades, the late Steven Runciman, gave a completely different answer: the Crusader kingdom collapsed because too many Crusaders returned to their ancestral homelands, while too few came to join the Crusaders. In the end, the last remnants were thrown into the sea (literally).

THERE ARE vast differences between the Crusader state that existed in this country for two hundred years and the present State of Israel, but there are also some striking similarities. That’s why their history always attracted me.

Lately I was reminded of Runciman’s conclusion because of the sudden interest of our media in the phenomenon of emigration. Some comments bordered on hysteria.

The reasons for this are two. First, a TV network reported on Israeli descenders abroad, second, the award of the Nobel chemistry prize to two ex-Israelis. Both caused much hand-wringing.

“Descenders”(Yordim) is the Hebrew term for emigrants. People coming to live in Israel are called “ascenders”(Olim), a term akin to pilgrims. Probably the word has something to do with the fact that Jerusalem is located on a hill surrounded on all sides by valleys, so that you have to “go up” to reach it. But of course there is an ideological Zionist connotation to the terms.

Before the founding of our state and during its first few decades, we saw ourselves as a heroic society, struggling against great odds, fighting several wars. People leaving us were looked upon as deserters, like soldiers running away from their unit during a battle. Yitzhak Rabin called them ‘trash”.

What made the TV story so frightening was that it showed ordinary middle-class young Israeli families settling for good in Berlin, London and New Jersey. Some of their children were already speaking foreign languages, abandoning Hebrew. Terrible.

Until lately,“descending” was mostly attributed to misfits, lower-class people and others who could not find their place in ordinary society. But here were normal, well-educated young couples, Israeli-born, speaking good Hebrew. Their general complaint – sounding rather like an apology – was that they could not “end the month” in Israel, that their middle-class salaries did not suffice for a decent living, because salaries are too low and prices too high. They singled out the prices of apartments. The price of an apartment in Tel Aviv is equivalent to 120 months’ average middle class income.

However, sober research showed that emigration has actually decreased during the last few years. Polls show that the majority of Israelis, including even a majority of Arab citizens, are satisfied with their economic situation – more than in most European nations.

THE SECOND reason for hysteria was the award of the Nobel Prize to two American Chemistry professors who were educated in Israel, one of them born in a Kibbutz.
Biggly Bogan BOOOOOOs

Wiley Park, Australia

#43324 Oct 20, 2013
Israel is immensely proud of its Nobel laureates. Relative to the size of the country, their number is indeed extraordinary.

Many Jews are deeply convinced that the Jewish intellect is superior to that of any other people. Theories about this abound. One of them is that in medieval times, European intellectuals were mostly celibate monks who did not bequeath their genes to any offspring. In Jewish communities, the opposite happened: the rich were proud to marry their daughters to especially gifted Torah scholars, allowing their genes to start life in privileged circumstances.

Yet here were these two scholars who left Israel decades ago to graze in foreign meadows, continuing their research in prestigious American universities.

In former years, they would have been called traitors. Now they only cause profound soul-searching. One of the two had left Israel because the highly-regarded Weizmann Institute did not offer him a professorship. Why did we let him go? What about all the others?

Actually, this is not a specifically Israeli problem. Brain-flight is taking place all over the world. An ambitious scientist longs for the best of laboratories, the most prestigious university. Young minds from all over the world flock to the US. Israelis are no exception.

We have good universities. Three of them figure somewhere on the list of the world’s hundred best. But who can resist the temptations of Harvard or MIT?

THE SUDDEN disillusion caused Israelis to take a hard look at Israeli academia. It appears that our standards are slipping all along the line. Our universities are under-funded by the government, the number of professors and their quality decreasing. High-school students are slipping in their exams.

Why?

Immense funds are swallowed by the army, whose demands grow from year to year, though our security situation is improving all the time.

Our eternal occupation of the Palestinian territories is a drain on our meager resources. So are the settlements, of course. Our government invests in them huge sums of money. The exact amounts are a state secret.

In the long run, a small country with limited resources cannot sustain a huge army, as well as an occupation regime and hundreds of settlements, without depriving everything else. One single fighter plane costs more than a school or a hospital or a laboratory.

BUT MY worry about emigration is not limited to material considerations.

People do not leave for material reasons only. They may think that they are emigrating because life in Berlin is cheaper than in Tel Aviv, apartments easier to find, salaries higher. But it is not only the strength of the attraction of foreign lands that counts – it is also the strength or weakness of the bond to the homeland.

In the years when “descenders” were considered trash, we were proud of being Israeli. During the fifties and sixties, whenever I presented my Israeli passport at any border control, I felt good. Israel was viewed with admiration throughout the world, not least by our enemies.

I believe that it is a basic human right to be proud of one’s society, one’s country. People belong to nations. Even in today’s global village, most people need the sense of belonging to a certain place, a certain people. No one wants to be ashamed of them.

Today, when presenting his passport, an Israeli feels no such pride. He may feel a sense of contrariness (“us against the whole world”), but he or she is conscious of his country being considered by many as an apartheid state, oppressing another people. Every person abroad has seen countless photos of heavily armed Israel soldiers confronting Palestinian women and children. Nothing to be proud of.

This is not a subject anyone ever speaks of. But it is there. And it is bound to get worse.
Biggly Bogan BOOOOOOs

Wiley Park, Australia

#43325 Oct 20, 2013
Jewish Israelis are already a minority in the country ruled by Israel, from the Mediterranean to the Jordan. The majority of subjects deprived of all rights is growing by the year. Oppression will necessarily grow. The image of Israel throughout the world will get worse. Pride in Israel will fade.

ONE EFFECT is already becoming obvious.

A prestigious recent poll conducted among American Jews shows a marked loosening of the attachment young Jews there feel for Israel.

The American Jewish scene is dominated by elderly professional leaders who were never elected by anyone. They exert immense power over American political life, but their influence in their own community is slipping. Young Jewish Americans are no longer proud of Israel. Some of them are ashamed.

These young Jews do not, in general, stand up to protest. They are afraid of providing ammunition to the anti-Semites. They are also educated from childhood that we Jews must stand together against the Goyim who want to destroy us.

So, instead of raising their voice, they keep quiet, leave their communities, disappear from sight. But this process can be utterly disastrous for Israel, Our leaders rely completely on the stranglehold they have on American politicians. If these perceive that the Jewish support of Israel is diminishing, they will be quick to liberate themselves.

THERE IS another aspect to the Zionist part of the equation.

Zionism is supposed to bring Jews to Israel. That is what it is all about. But Zionism can be a two-way street.

Israel declares itself to be “the State of the Jewish People”. Jews all over the world are considered de facto Israeli nationals. But if there is no basic difference between a Jew in Haifa and a Jew in Hamburg, why stay in Haifa when life in Hamburg seems to be so much better?

I have campaigned for decades to exchange Zionist theology for a simple Israeli patriotism. Perhaps the time has finally come to do so – after turning Israel into a country we can be proud of again.

URI AVNERY is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is a contributor to CounterPunch’s book The Politics of Anti-Semitism.


LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL, Watch out Bogans the jews are on their way to make you murder each other as you were happily doing in recent past...LLOL,LLOL,LLOL, good riddance jews and boganst in one go...LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,
MUQ taqiyya kitman

Bonnyrigg Heights, Australia

#43326 Oct 20, 2013
MUQ more lies wrote:
<quoted text>
MUQ, once again you lie.
You lies sit on your toungue like black pebbles, vomited up from your soul black with sin.
Burton recorded what he saw in the victorian English tradition of being an explorer, trained in being objective. Islam was an ally to the british, at that time India was being held together by an alliance of the british & indian ' musselmem'.
Burton was from the indian company and was
sent to explore & develop alliances with the Muslims.
So he had no preconceptions or bias, he just recorded what he saw. This was tens of
thousands of muslim pilgrims practicing the ancient hajj (sabian) sex ritual using the black stone. When he records the woman smear and paste their vagina fluids on the stone, and the
men mill & fight to finger, sniff, lick and kiss the stone before having sex - that's what happened.
Today on YouTube you can see the Muslim men and woman DOING EXACTLY THE SAME!!

When he says the kaaba inside has melted down idols (of the gazelle or antelope pagan idols as a fact example) then that's the truth if it, as video of inside the kaaba reveals this.
And yes, 30,000 Muslims in 1873 died of cholera spread by such daubing, licking, fingering & kissing the black stone as a fact.

Everyone knows Mecca and the hajj is a pagan sex ritual. When 35,000 prostitutes are bused in and even the Meccan police chief himself
complains publicy !!that too many Christian prostitutes are being allowed in for the Arab high
rollers !!!-then frankly the cats out of the bag.

So you can keep lying despite the historical, and video and press evidence... Or you can fess up.

You go to Mecca to take part in a sex ritual.
Whether you personally fornicate with one of the tens of thousands of Nigerian or Bangladeshi sex
workers organized to service in the open the huge queues of slave unclean classes of Muslims; is neither here nor there.
The whole event is a sex ritual celebration for
reasons explained previously.
You worship a 'lord of the Kaaba' called Hubal who's headless body is buried with the step.
Hubal was allah's stone idol purchased when the pagan god Allah the moon and controller of all
evil with his 3 daughters was invented in180 AD.
Based on Sin otherwise known as Baal.
So Allah is based on the devil, an enemy of god.
No YHWH in Allah, it's the devil & Muhammad
was the antichrist, with the devils mark.

Jesus warned of such evil and their followers that worship idols and kiss the devils stone.

So you MUQ are an idolater of pagan devil objects and participate in pagan sex rituals and you admit to this. Then you try taqiyya to deny it..

You lies are infamous for both their clumsiness &
obvious deceit.
Funny how huge cut and pastes saying nothing appear from 'bigglybogan' or 'pigmuncher' as soon as MUQ has the hard questions about the facts and history of Islam put to him..
The same source material MUQ uses for his anti Jew & anti Western hate material.
Beginning to suspect MUQ can't face the reality of the tawdry confection and heresy of islam and has to block it out... Taqiyya / Kitman is the Muslim practice in doing this.
Answer the questions MUQ - stop being a coward and a liar,. Is the hajj a pagan sex festival ? Is the black stone the object used in the sex ritual ? Is that what you really worship & pray to. Why do you think the lord of the kaaba (hubal of sin & Baal) is your lord? Are you admitting now you are a devil and pagan object idolator ?
These are the questions to be answered..

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

May the Force be with You .

#43327 Oct 20, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
If Richard Burton "found" fetish symbols and pagan worship, in and around Makkah and during Hajj, then he was either lying or did not understood any thing what he saw.
Both these qualities are "Not befitting" a true seeker of truth or an "unbiased" history writer.
I have nothing personal against Burton, but seeing the world media writing "so many things against Islam, which are pure non sense" in our time, how can we say that Burton was safe from this virus.
You post on this thread what Burton wrote and then we can see, how wrong and biased he was.
Do not start the discussion in air.
Hello MUQ do you think the world media had anything to write about Islam in 1853,this was in a time when that region was still looked upon as an exotic location few would dare tread for fear of the unknown consequences of dealing with a different race of peoples.
Richard Burton would have wrote exactly as he saw with his own eyes and being an Irishman of such notable character would have relayed his impressions upon the world as he knew it then as a world traveller that others may follow after him to experience the rituals of Islam themselves.
MUQ

Bhopal, India

#43328 Oct 20, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello MUQ do you think the world media had anything to write about Islam in 1853,this was in a time when that region was still looked upon as an exotic location few would dare tread for fear of the unknown consequences of dealing with a different race of peoples.
Richard Burton would have wrote exactly as he saw with his own eyes and being an Irishman of such notable character would have relayed his impressions upon the world as he knew it then as a world traveller that others may follow after him to experience the rituals of Islam themselves.
World Media (if you want to say Western Media as World Media) started writing against Islam and Muslims from the beginning of Crusade wars and has not yet stopped writing against it.

The period of 1853 was when European Colonism was at its peak and there is every reason that Western writers were busy in writing against Islam.

Instead of discussing what Burton wrote or did not write, why you people do not write on this thread what he actually wrote, so we can say , how honest or how true was he in what he wrote.

When we see people lieing thru their teeth and misquoting Islamic teachings in our present days on Information, how could poor Burton stay on right path in 1853?

So I request, all Burton supporters to tell us what he wrote about pagan and fetish ritual connected with Hajj and Umrah in and around Makkah in 1853.
sid

Chermside, Australia

#43329 Oct 20, 2013
a bit slow on the muslim murders muslim front today, only about 50,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/
Serpent

Calgary, Canada

#43330 Oct 20, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
World Media (if you want to say Western Media as World Media) started writing against Islam and Muslims from the beginning of Crusade wars and has not yet stopped writing against it.
The period of 1853 was when European Colonism was at its peak and there is every reason that Western writers were busy in writing against Islam.
Instead of discussing what Burton wrote or did not write, why you people do not write on this thread what he actually wrote, so we can say , how honest or how true was he in what he wrote.
When we see people lieing thru their teeth and misquoting Islamic teachings in our present days on Information, how could poor Burton stay on right path in 1853?
So I request, all Burton supporters to tell us what he wrote about pagan and fetish ritual connected with Hajj and Umrah in and around Makkah in 1853.
Your always living in the past, only historians losers care about the past. Which one are you?

Look to the future and figure out how Muslims are going to live in peace in the future, figure out how they are going to integrate with the western world and figure out how they are going to make positive contributions to ALL mankind, regardless of race or religion..

And don't give me this shit that we have to understand the past in order to map the future. That kind of thinking is for losers!!

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

May the Force be with You .

#43331 Oct 20, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
World Media (if you want to say Western Media as World Media) started writing against Islam and Muslims from the beginning of Crusade wars and has not yet stopped writing against it.
The period of 1853 was when European Colonism was at its peak and there is every reason that Western writers were busy in writing against Islam.
Instead of discussing what Burton wrote or did not write, why you people do not write on this thread what he actually wrote, so we can say , how honest or how true was he in what he wrote.
When we see people lieing thru their teeth and misquoting Islamic teachings in our present days on Information, how could poor Burton stay on right path in 1853?
So I request, all Burton supporters to tell us what he wrote about pagan and fetish ritual connected with Hajj and Umrah in and around Makkah in 1853.
You want Islam to be seen as the oppressed here that nothing honest is ever written of Islam whereas it is you who is at fault MUQ, not those scholars who have studied with their own eyes what makes Islam tick.

You have already read a summery of Richard Burtons experiences ,re read it again until it sinks in that he was an explorer not Islam's judge nor jury .
Lordy lordy

Arndell Park, Australia

#43332 Oct 20, 2013
The real danger for Australia is Se Asian.Not Islamics. Indonesia is Islamic mainly,I know.
Cheap labour force for Australian capitalists.

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

May the Force be with You .

#43333 Oct 20, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
When we see people lying about Islam in this our age of 2013, how we can say that this Richard Burton did not tell and invent lies when he "fraudulently visited Makkah in 1853".
When we see misconception about Islam and distorting of its teachings, right before our eyes in 2013, how can we assume that this Burton was "Symbol of truth" in 1853?
What is Hajj and what are its rituals have remained unchanged since the days of our prophet, I do not know what was the "fetish and pagan rituals" that were in force in 1853 and have been removed now.
And they say that by reading such books, I will come to know the truth and leave Islam, I who have myslef visited Makkah so many times and took part in Hajj and Umrah rituals,!!
Why only Burton'? There are more than 60,000 Anti Islamic books written in Western countries against Islam.
That shows their FEAR, their REAL FEAR about Islam.
Why would they write so many books against it, if they were not afraid from it?
How do you know there are 60,000 books against Islam seeing most books on Islam are written by Muslims ?
Lordy lordy

Arndell Park, Australia

#43334 Oct 20, 2013
Biggly Bogan BOOOOOOs wrote:
Israel is immensely proud of its Nobel laureates. Relative to the size of the country, their number is indeed extraordinary.
Many Jews are deeply convinced that the Jewish intellect is superior to that of any other people. Theories about this abound. One of them is that in medieval times, European intellectuals were mostly celibate monks who did not bequeath their genes to any offspring. In Jewish communities, the opposite happened: the rich were proud to marry their daughters to especially gifted Torah scholars, allowing their genes to start life in privileged circumstances.
Yet here were these two scholars who left Israel decades ago to graze in foreign meadows, continuing their research in prestigious American universities.
In former years, they would have been called traitors. Now they only cause profound soul-searching. One of the two had left Israel because the highly-regarded Weizmann Institute did not offer him a professorship. Why did we let him go? What about all the others?
Actually, this is not a specifically Israeli problem. Brain-flight is taking place all over the world. An ambitious scientist longs for the best of laboratories, the most prestigious university. Young minds from all over the world flock to the US. Israelis are no exception.
We have good universities. Three of them figure somewhere on the list of the world’s hundred best. But who can resist the temptations of Harvard or MIT?
THE SUDDEN disillusion caused Israelis to take a hard look at Israeli academia. It appears that our standards are slipping all along the line. Our universities are under-funded by the government, the number of professors and their quality decreasing. High-school students are slipping in their exams.
Why?
Immense funds are swallowed by the army, whose demands grow from year to year, though our security situation is improving all the time.
Our eternal occupation of the Palestinian territories is a drain on our meager resources. So are the settlements, of course. Our government invests in them huge sums of money. The exact amounts are a state secret.
In the long run, a small country with limited resources cannot sustain a huge army, as well as an occupation regime and hundreds of settlements, without depriving everything else. One single fighter plane costs more than a school or a hospital or a laboratory.
BUT MY worry about emigration is not limited to material considerations.
People do not leave for material reasons only. They may think that they are emigrating because life in Berlin is cheaper than in Tel Aviv, apartments easier to find, salaries higher. But it is not only the strength of the attraction of foreign lands that counts – it is also the strength or weakness of the bond to the homeland.
In the years when “descenders” were considered trash, we were proud of being Israeli. During the fifties and sixties, whenever I presented my Israeli passport at any border control, I felt good. Israel was viewed with admiration throughout the world, not least by our enemies.
I believe that it is a basic human right to be proud of one’s society, one’s country. People belong to nations. Even in today’s global village, most people need the sense of belonging to a certain place, a certain people. No one wants to be ashamed of them.
Today, when presenting his passport, an Israeli feels no such pride. He may feel a sense of contrariness (“us against the whole world”), but he or she is conscious of his country being considered by many as an apartheid state, oppressing another people. Every person abroad has seen countless photos of heavily armed Israel soldiers confronting Palestinian women and children. Nothing to be proud of.
This is not a subject anyone ever speaks of. But it is there. And it is bound to get worse.
Jews are wicked people.Bad character usually.Not all. Most.
MUQ

Bhopal, India

#43335 Oct 20, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
You want Islam to be seen as the oppressed here that nothing honest is ever written of Islam whereas it is you who is at fault MUQ, not those scholars who have studied with their own eyes what makes Islam tick.
You have already read a summery of Richard Burtons experiences ,re read it again until it sinks in that he was an explorer not Islam's judge nor jury .
No one Quoted exactly what Burton wrote, let us have some "verbatim" from his book.

Then we will see and tell you "How true and how unbiased" was he. How can you pass judgment, with only one sided report?
MUQ

Bhopal, India

#43337 Oct 20, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know there are 60,000 books against Islam seeing most books on Islam are written by Muslims ?
Just count how many Anti Islamic posts have been posted on threads of Topix itself.

Why you have doubt that more than 60,000 books have been written against Islam in West during last 150 years?

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#43338 Oct 20, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Just count how many Anti Islamic posts have been posted on threads of Topix itself.
Why you have doubt that more than 60,000 books have been written against Islam in West during last 150 years?
Maybe it's because there is so much wrong with Islam that that number of books are needed to try and cover all its lies and warped teachings
USA today

Adelaide, Australia

#43339 Oct 20, 2013
Sheilaa wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe it's because there is so much wrong with Islam that that number of books are needed to try and cover all its lies and warped teachings
60 000 books cant all be a coincidence
Semiti Qalovasa

Auckland, New Zealand

#43340 Oct 20, 2013
aussie chixs like muslim meat..period

Sheilaa

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#43341 Oct 20, 2013
Semiti Qalovasa wrote:
aussie chixs like muslim meat..period
In your dreams only. Most Australians can't stand them and despise their lack of hygiene and the fact they tend to smell so much
sid

Chermside, Australia

#43342 Oct 20, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Just count how many Anti Islamic posts have been posted on threads of Topix itself.
Why you have doubt that more than 60,000 books have been written against Islam in West during last 150 years?
You are a complete fcuking idiot, 60,000 anti islam book, absolute bullshit,
60,000 divided by 365 equals one book a day for the last 164 years.

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

May the Force be with You .

#43344 Oct 20, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Just count how many Anti Islamic posts have been posted on threads of Topix itself.
Why you have doubt that more than 60,000 books have been written against Islam in West during last 150 years?
Topix posts are not books MUQ ,check the internet and ye shall find many Muslim's writing their version of the history of Islam.
As you have repeated that the Quran is so perfect why would there need to be another book ,well then why do we need to see so many verse of Islam on sale by Muslims ?

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