Why should Australians fear from Musl...

Why should Australians fear from Muslims?

There are 46739 comments on the Scoop story from Dec 23, 2007, titled Why should Australians fear from Muslims?. In it, Scoop reports that:

About 800 people gathered in Camden, NSW and raised their voice against the plan for an Islamic School to be built in the area.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Scoop.

Stan

Winston Hills, Australia

#40750 Jun 23, 2013
Cheri wrote:
We have Christian and Jewish schools, there are fanatics in those religions also.
But we do not protest about those school's being built?
In every religion, there are fanatics and even Muslims fear the fanatics in their religion... Because they are scary.
I believe every religious school should be monitored to prevent anything from happening, though this would be very costly.
We hear more of "muslim fanatics" as Islam is currently the 'scare' tactic or a fear item at the moment in both the governments eyes (and for any agenda) as well as the media's (which work with the government to a major amount)
Yes there are fanatics in all religions, but they are not attacking our hard working police and yelling out to murder people.
http://therealsasha.files.wordpress.com/2012/...
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2012/09/...

Well ?
Stan

Winston Hills, Australia

#40751 Jun 23, 2013
http://www.urbanepeeps.com/blogs/1/2611/video...

6 tons all in the name of peace.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#40752 Jun 24, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
Seeing Makkah would have been such an important spiritual location it would have been known all over
It was only for Arabs, the "Universal Prophet" had not risen yet.

And many Jewish prophets did visit that place, there IS a mention of Valley of BECA in Bible, which is same as BAKKAH, another name for Makkah, mentioned in Quran.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#40753 Jun 24, 2013
Question of Existence of Makkah:

I received lot of posts on the question of existence of Makkah.

The "Proof" that Makkah did not exist before 150 CE should come from any one who "Visited" that area prior to 150 CE and found it an empty place.

And later when someone visited it after 150 CE , he found a city called Makkah there, that is a certain proof that the city came into existence somewhere during that period.

This is normal and correct procedure to "Prove" that a city came into existence at a particular date.

For example, when I came to Allahabad, a city in UP in 1964, I found it a small place and lot of vacant lands and fields in all directions.

Later when I visited the same city in 2013, I found that it had grown and all those fields are now part of city.

So I can say with certainty, that these places and buildings did not exist in 1960 s and only came up after that.

The same is the case with Makkah. Arabs are "unanimous" that the city was built by prophet Abraham and Ishmael.

The sanctuary of Kaaba according to them is existing since that time.

The well of ZAMZAM , a "never dry" well is also existing since that time.

How can we reject all that because "No one from , Europe, Rome or other cities visited that place?

If they have to have any "proof" that Makkah existed only after 150 CE, they have to bring evidence from any "eye witness" who visited that land prior to 150 CE and found nothing but empty land there.

I wish to see that "proof"?

Not these types of Half cooked stories.

PS:

01. This answers many posts I have received on this subject.

02. In one Post someone has told that Jews were controlling trade from Medina to Yemen in all those years and yet they did not "see" Makkah.

So Medina "existed" in those days? Vow!! Vow!!
oinkoinkbuster

Brookvale, Australia

#40754 Jun 24, 2013
Lesson number 1 for convicts..........

in the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Blame it on Eve! Eve in the Bible vs Quran
Everyone blames it on Eve. That is why there have been so much abuse and disregard to the women in this world. That is why the women never achieved full equality in rights with their fellow men, even if they were more qualified.

The Bible we have today was corrupted by men who have no less of enthusiasm to downplay the status of women than some of the men living in this century.

The only unaltered word of God that we have today is QURAN. That is where we can find the truth about the status of women in relation to man as far as God is concerned. All the other books have been tampered with by men who have many more other interests than serving God ALONE.

Because Quran is the Ultimate Truth, we can, without hesitation, compare it to all that we have of older scriptures, like the Old and New Testament, and we can, without difficulty, sense the alteration that was introduced into these Holy books.

Where does Eve, the mother of all the human beings stand in the Bible compared to Quran?

Just a quick study of the way the Bible treats Eve would explain the reason behind all the problems that the women are suffering today.

Read Genesis 3:1-24

"When God asked Adam why did he eats from the forbidden tree, he answered, according to the O.T. "And the man said, the WOMAN whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." Genesis 3:12-13
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise the head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he (God) said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." Genesis 3 : 15-16
As we can see here, Adam who committed the sin of eating from the forbidden tree blame it on Eve? And since then, men of all generations have been blaming Eve for their sins. You see that God in the Bible is blaming Eve and punishing her and all the Eves to come for the sin she did.

Does Quran present the story of Adam and his wife differently?

If you read the same story in Quran,(See 2:31-36),(7:19-25),(20:115-123 )you will find that God in Quran :

never blamed Adam's wife for the sin that Adam committed. God spoke about both Adam and his wife being duped by Satan, and never singled the wife out.
Adam is held responsible for the sin he committed, he cannot blame it on on his wife, since he is as a responsible human being as she.
Both Adam and his wife were punished for their sin by being ousted from Paradise.
The wife did not receive any harsher admonition than Adam and was not threatened by misery for herself and all her female offsprings as the Bible depicts.
In Islam (Submission in English), all the stories about Adam's wife being responsible for getting Adam to sin can only be found in the Hadiths Books and never found in Quran.
Like many Hadiths in the Hadiths books, you can easily recognize the influence of Jewish beliefs on those who wrote these books, alleging the false stories and sayings to the prophet Muhammed.

In summary, while the Bible ( and the corrupted hadiths) blame it on Eve, Quran holds both Adam and his wife responsible for the sin of eating from the forbidden tree. Islam (Submission) holds everyone responsible for his/her sins. No blaming of parents, spouse, teachers, preachers, brothers, sisters, friends, or any one is accepted.

[Quran 6:164] Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the lord of all things ? NO SOUL BENEFITS EXCEPT FROM ITS OWN WORKS, AND NONE BEARS THE BURDEN OF ANOTHER. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes.
MUQ Q1 Mark is fail

Brookvale, Australia

#40755 Jun 24, 2013
MUQ wrote:
Question of Existence of Makkah:
I received lot of posts on the question of existence of Makkah.
The "Proof" that Makkah did not exist before 150 CE should come from any one who "Visited" that area prior to 150 CE and found it an empty place.
And later when someone visited it after 150 CE , he found a city called Makkah there, that is a
certain proof that the city came into existence somewhere during that period.
This is normal and correct procedure to "Prove"
that a city came into existence at a particular date.
For example, when I came to Allahabad, a city in
UP in 1964, I found it a small place and lot of vacant lands and fields in all directions.
Later when I visited the same city in 2013, I found that it had grown and all those fields are
now part of city.
So I can say with certainty, that these places and buildings did not exist in 1960 s and only came up after that.
The same is the case with Makkah. Arabs are "unanimous" that the city was built by prophet Abraham and Ishmael.
The sanctuary of Kaaba according to them is existing since that time.
The well of ZAMZAM , a "never dry" well is also
existing since that time.
How can we reject all that because "No one from , Europe, Rome or other cities visited that place?
If they have to have any "proof" that Makkah existed only after 150 CE, they have to bring evidence from any "eye witness" who visited that
land prior to 150 CE and found nothing but empty land there.
I wish to see that "proof"?
Not these types of Half cooked stories.
PS:
01. This answers many posts I have received on this subject.
02. In one Post someone has told that Jews were controlling trade from Medina to Yemen in
all those years and yet they did not "see" Makkah.
So Medina "existed" in those days? Vow!! Vow!!
MUQ that's pathetic - absolutely pathetic.
So the answer is rejected and your forfeit any claim that Islam has any evidence to price that Mecca existed before 150 ad. The claim of a Mecca & a Kabba back to Abraham is proved completely false, you failed to prove your claim.
-
And yes yathrib is now medina, just as constanipole is now Istanbul. Most readers would not where yathrib was or that it was part of the kingdom of T'ubah, the Yemenite who's jewish/ishmaelite beliefs are what the Quran is copied from. The trade from medina (yathrib) was extensive and many maps & records were kept by the yemenite kingdom as well as the Natebean's further north. Not one mention ever of Mecca until the records of its establishment by the T'ubah kingdom in 150 ad. In their kingdom. By them. The well - only came into existence due to the geological changes (earthquake also recorded. No Kabba structure - in fact an open space until 360 ad / also recorded in much rich
detail with pre muhammad script and much archeological evidence.
-
I must say how disappointing and feeble an effort here from Islam. Not even one faint or tenous claim to defend the false claim (the biblical reference is a known nonsense and zero jewish records exist of Jew or anyone else ever visiting anything in that area. You taqiyya is so weak I feel your faith in Islam has taken a big blow.
-
Q1. IS IT TRUE THAT MECCA DID NOT EXIST UNTIL 150 AD.
Confirmed. It did not.
-
And now onto question 2 of the 7 you committed to answer. Coming up soon - Allah the moon god of the quaresh & his idol Hubal.
To be continued.
tom

Australia

#40756 Jun 24, 2013
oinkoinkbuster wrote:
Lesson number 1 for convicts..........
in the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Blame it on Eve! Eve in the Bible vs Quran
Everyone blames it on Eve. That is why there have been so much abuse and disregard to the women in this world. That is why the women never achieved full equality in rights with their fellow men, even if they were more qualified.
The Bible we have today was corrupted by men who have no less of enthusiasm to downplay the status of women than some of the men living in this century.
The only unaltered word of God that we have today is QURAN. That is where we can find the truth about the status of women in relation to man as far as God is concerned. All the other books have been tampered with by men who have many more other interests than serving God ALONE.

Just a quick study of the way the Bible treats Eve would explain the reason behind all the problems that the women are suffering today.
Read Genesis 3:1-24
"When God asked Adam why did he eats from the forbidden tree, he answered, according to the O.T. "And the man said, the WOMAN whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." Genesis 3:12-13
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise the head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he (God) said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." Genesis 3 : 15-16
As we can see here, Adam who committed the sin of eating from the forbidden tree blame it on Eve? And since then, men of all generations have been blaming Eve for their sins. You see that God in the Bible is blaming Eve and punishing her and all the Eves to come for the sin she did.
Does Quran present the story of Adam and his wife differently?
If you read the same story in Quran,(See 2:31-36),(7:19-25),(20:115-123 )you will find that God in Quran :
never blamed Adam's wife for the sin that Adam committed. God spoke about both Adam and his wife being duped by Satan, and never singled the wife out.
Adam is held responsible for the sin he committed, he cannot blame it on on his wife, since he is as a responsible human being as she.
Both Adam and his wife were punished for their sin by being ousted from Paradise.
The wife did not receive any harsher admonition than Adam and was not threatened by misery for herself and all her female offsprings as the Bible depicts.
In Islam (Submission in English), all the stories about Adam's wife being responsible for getting Adam to sin can only be found in the Hadiths Books and never found in Quran.
Like many Hadiths in the Hadiths books, you can easily recognize the influence of Jewish beliefs on those who wrote these books, alleging the false stories and sayings to the prophet Muhammed.
In summary, while the Bible ( and the corrupted hadiths) blame it on Eve, Quran holds both Adam and his wife responsible for the sin of eating from the forbidden tree. Islam (Submission) holds everyone responsible for his/her sins. No blaming of parents, spouse, teachers, preachers, brothers, sisters, friends, or any one is accepted.
[Quran 6:164] Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the lord of all things ? NO SOUL BENEFITS EXCEPT FROM ITS OWN WORKS, AND NONE BEARS THE BURDEN OF ANOTHER. Ultimately, you return to your Lord, then He informs you regarding all your disputes.
Vomit it up DOG !

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#40757 Jun 24, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
It was only for Arabs, the "Universal Prophet" had not risen yet.
And many Jewish prophets did visit that place, there IS a mention of Valley of BECA in Bible, which is same as BAKKAH, another name for Makkah, mentioned in Quran.
-
MUQ on your Presumption that Bakkah is an other name for Mekkah, Same as saying Amsterdam is the same name for New york.
-
For I can find records in 1275 about Amsterdam was founded, long before Christopher Columbus was even born.
-
That is how stupid your argument reads.
-
MUQ Your example is like saying that Qaisumah sounds like Mecca so it has to be Mecca

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#40758 Jun 24, 2013
oinkoinkbuster wrote:
Lesson number 1 for ignorant Muslims
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Let me handle this Muslim ASS.
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He still believes in fairy tales, next he be telling you that Mickey Mouse is alive and real. The Qur'an tells us that so it has to be real.
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One has to be really stupid to believe that the stories in the bible and the Qur'an or the hadith are real.
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I am sure he believes when it reads in the Qur'an that the sun sets in a slimy muddy pool. <<<< And Allah who created the earth and the sun, was Allah not even aware that the earth moved around the sun?
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And man's sperm comes from his backbone. <<< is that also the real facts, that came from Allah?
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The Koran claims that it was written by the perfect, immutable God who created the universe and knows all things. On the contrary, the Koran has a number of historical, theological, and other errors that contradict reality. Some of the more apparent ones will be brought forward. Unless stated otherwise, all most all Koranic quotes are lies, The Islamic God has to be pretty stupid to make that many errors, or was it lies to hood wink the Arabs?
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Abraham and the Ka’bah
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According to the Koran, Abraham and his son Ishmael were the ones who built the Ka’bah in Mecca (Sura 2:127). However, this contradicts all the history books known to man:
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There is no historical evidence for the assertion that Abraham or Ishmael was ever in Mecca, and if there had been such a tradition it would have to be explained how all memory of the Old Semitic name Ishmael (which was not in its true Arabian form in Arabian inscriptions and written correctly with an initial consonant Y) came to be lost. The form in the Quran is taken either from Greek or Syriac sources.”
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Also, common sense screams against it. Abraham used to live in the city of Ur of the Chaldees (South East Iraq), and he moved west toward Canaan, a land very plentiful in food, not south toward Mecca, a city in the middle of the desert. Why would God promise to give Abraham’s posterity a land of abundant resources and then send him into a desert hell-hole where tribes would have to go to war every year just to fight over a well of water?!
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Alexander the Great – A Monotheist? <<<< A lie.
-
In Sura 18:83-97, we learn of the adventures of a man named “Dhu’l-Qarneyn,” a title that means “Two-Horned.” Furthermore, the story says that this Dhu’l-Qarneyn was a Muslim (i.e. a monotheist before Islam) and lived to a ripe old age. However, we know that “Two-Horned” was a common title of Alexander the Great in the Middle East during the time of Muhammad. The title “Two-Horned” came from Alexander’s belief that he was the son of the Egyptian god, Ammon, who was represented by a ram with two large horns. Not only was Alexander not a monotheist (i.e. he worshipped the Greek gods), but he also did not live to a ripe old age (i.e. he died at the age of 33).
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Because this is a clear contradiction of history, modern Muslims want to rewrite history and say that Dhu’l-Qarneyn does not refer to Alexander the Great but some other person. However, as was proven in the article on the sources of the Koran, the story about Dhu’l-Qarneyn (in Sura 18:83-97) is the exact same story as the Romance of Alexander, a legendary Christian narrative that turns Alexander the Great into a monotheist. In the Romance of Alexander, Alexander, in one of his prayers, says,“O God…Thou hast made me horns upon my head,” and in the Ethiopic version of the legend, Alexander is always called the “the two-horned.” Second, scholars throughout the centuries (including many Muslims) agree that Dhu’l-Qarneyn is Alexander the Great. The Encyclopedia Britannica states:
-
“His [Muhammad’s] account of Alexander, introduced as “the two-horned one”(xviii, 82), is derived from the Romance of Alexander, which was current among the Nestorian Christians of the 7th Century in a Syriac version.”
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Encyclopedia Britannica (London: Encyclopedia Britannica Inc., 1957), 15:479.
-

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#40759 Jun 24, 2013
"oinkoinkbuster"
Lesson number 2 is given to stupid Muslim who do not even read their own encyclopedias .........
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Read what your books tell you.
-
The Encyclopedia of Islam says:
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“AL-ISKANDAR. It is generally agreed both by Muslim commentators and modern occidental scholars that Dhu’l-Karnayn,“the two horned”, in Sura XVIII, 83/82-98 is to be identified with Alexander the Great.”
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Encyclopedia of Islam, New Edition,(Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1978), Vol. 4.
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Even the orthodox Muslim commentator and apologist, Yusuf Ali, admitted:
-
“I have not the least doubt that Zul-qarnain is meant to be Alexander the Great, the historic Alexander, and not some legendary Alexander.”
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Yusuf Ali, The Holy Quran (Brentwood, Maryland: Amana Corp., 1983), p.763.
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Gog and Magog and the Giant Iron Gate.
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In the same Sura mentioned above Dhu’l-Qarneyn travels to a place where a mountain pass separates the lands of an oppressed people from the lands of Gog and Magog. Dhu’l-Qarneyn proceeds to build a giant gate made of iron and copper so that the armies of Gog and Magog cannot pass through. Then, in Sura 21:96-97, it is said that God will let the armies of Gog and Magog through the barrier to ravage the land in the last days. Thus, it is obviously implied that this iron/copper gate still exists somewhere on earth holding back the wicked minions of Gog and Magog.
-
The problem, however, is that no such gate exists! Satellites have searched every square inch of this planet and have never found some grandiose iron gate that is holding back a giant army just itching to destroy civilization as we know it. We know that the Koran meant this story to be taken literally because the Hadiths and Muslim commentators (such as Yusuf Ali) go at great lengths to prove that such a structure exists or existed but doesn’t any longer. However, the Koran predicts that the gate is supposed to stand until the last days. So, either the gate never existed and the Koran was historically false, or the gate was destroyed and Allah was powerless to keep his promises. Also, where are the people and armies of Gog and Magog whose nation is supposedly enclosed completely except for a single mountain pass? Either way the Koran is completely full of lies or written as a fairy tale, for stupid Muslim who are willing to believe fairy tales.
-
The Qur'an can bed compared with the writer Hans Christian Anderson
-
No One Named John Before?



In Sura 19:7 we read:



“(It was said unto him): O Zachariah! Lo! We bring thee tidings of a son whose name is John; we have given the same name to none before (him).”

-Sura 19:7



This translation (by an orthodox Muslim) and other translations quite clearly state that there was no one named John before John the Baptist. In reality, this claim is absolutely silly! There were Johns long before John the Baptist (see 2 Kings 25:23, 1 Chronicles 3:15, 24, 6:9, 10, Ezra 8:12, King John Hyrcanus, John the Essene, John Maccabeus, etc.). Modern Muslims have seen the obvious historical error, and so they have tried to say that the Arabic text doesn’t actually say what it says. For instance, Yusuf Ali translates the verse:
-
“…on none by that name have We conferred distinction before.”

-Sura 19:7 (Yusuf Ali’s translation)
-
However, Ali even admits in his commentary that he rendered the verse that way because the normal reading would have resulted in an obvious historical error. Most all of the other translations in English read the same way as Pickthall’s (i.e. the first reading above). This would include Sher Ali’s, Arberry’s, Palmer’s, Rodwell’s, and Sale’s translations of the Koran. Answering-Islam has some very good articles refuting the Muslim defense of this passage here:
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www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/y... and here:
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www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/y...

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#40760 Jun 24, 2013
"oinkoinkbuster"
Lesson number 3 for the stupid Muslims..........
-
Historical Compression Errors
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Abraham and Nimrod
-
In the Koran, Abraham lived in a land ruled by King Nimrod. In the story (Sura 21:58-69), Abraham destroys the idols of his people, and as a result, is thrown into a fire by Nimrod. However, Nimrod (Sargon I?) was the great grandson of Noah and the founder of the cities of Babylon and Nineveh (Genesis 10:8-11), but Abraham was nine generations separated from Noah (Genesis 11:10-27) and came from Ur of the Chaldees. How could Nimrod (a man who had been dead for many years) throw Abraham (a man who had not even been born yet) into a fire?! Of course, the error stems from the fact that Muhammad got this story from a Jewish legend (i.e. Midrash Rabbah) rather than a revelation from God.[See the article on the sources of the Koran for more.]
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Haman, Moses, Pharaoh, the Tower of Babel, and Some Burnt Clay
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In multiple places in the Koran (Suras 28:35-42, 40:36-37), there is a story where Pharaoh orders his minister, Haman, to build a tower reaching to heaven so that Pharaoh can “look upon Moses’ God”(Sura 40:37). However, there are numerous problems with this story.
-
First, Haman was the minister of the Persian king, Ahasuerus (i.e. Xerxes I), who lived many centuries after the incident with Moses and Pharoah. Not only does the Koran have Haman in the wrong time period but also in the wrong place!
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Second, the tower that Pharaoh had built to “look upon Moses’ God”(Sura 40:37) was undoubtedly the Tower of Babel (see Genesis 11:1-9 and compare Sura 28:38 with Genesis 11:3). However, the event of the failed building of the Tower of Babel took place at least 400 years before Moses and Pharaoh, and furthermore, it took place in Babylon, not Egypt! Indeed, the reason that Babylon is called Babylon is because it is Akkadian for “gateway to a god”(i.e. the Hebrew for Babylon is “Babel”), an obvious reference to the attempt made by its inhabitants to build the tower. So, even if it is argued by the Muslim that the Bible was corrupted, then there is still incontrovertible evidence (from the name of the city) that the event took place in Mesopotamia and not Egypt, contrary to the Koran.
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Last, the story in the Koran has the Egyptians using burnt clay for bricks to build the Tower of Babel (Sura 28:38). However, ancient Egyptians didn’t use baked clay for bricks. They used sun dried mud with straw or cut stone instead, and the major use of baked bricks by the Egyptians didn’t come about until the Roman era. This is an obvious anachronism in the Koran. For more reading on this topic, go here:
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www.answering-islam.org/Index/B/bricks.html and here:
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www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/b...
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Pharaoh and Crucifixion.
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In Suras 7:124 and 26:49, we are told that Pharaoh, king of Egypt, threatened his sorcerers with crucifixion for believing in the God of Moses. However, crucifixion would not be invented for another 900 years and far, far away in Persia! This would be like saying,“Julius Caesar got tired of riding his horse, and so, he jumped in his F-16 fighter jet and flew to Gaul instead.” The anachronism in the Koran is absurd! For more reading and documentation on this, go here: www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/h005.htm... .

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#40761 Jun 24, 2013
"oinkoinkbuster"
Lesson number 4 for for MUQ who is an Indian........
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Miriam and Mary.
-
In Sura 19:28, Mary, the mother of Jesus, is said to be the sister of Aaron and Moses and the daughter of Amram (Sura 66:12). However, Jesus was not born for another 1400 years after Moses! It is clear that Muhammad confused Miriam, the sister of Moses, with Mary the mother of Jesus and wife of Joseph.
-
Muslims try to counter this argument by saying that because Mary was the cousin of Elizabeth (the mother of John the Baptist) and Elizabeth was descendant of Aaron, then Mary could also be called the “daughter” of Amram in an extended fashion. However, there are a number of problems with this argument. First, Mary was more associated with the tribe of Judah than that of Levi, and this is the reason that Jesus is called the son of David (Luke 1:32) and was not of priestly descent (Hebrews 7:11-14). This means that it is more likely that Elizabeth’s father, the Levite priest, married the sister of either of Mary’s parents which would mean that Mary would not have any of the Levite blood in her that her cousin Elizabeth had. Even if this is not so, then Mary would still not have been called the daughter of Aaron in any extended sense since she was more related to the descendants of Judah.
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The second and most obvious problem with this argument is from the Koran itself! In Sura 3:35-36 we read (emphasis mine):
-
“(Remember) when the wife of ‘Imran said: My Lord! I have vowed unto Thee that which is in my belly as a consecrated (offering). Accept it from me. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower! And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female – Allah knew best of what she was delivered – the male is not as the female; and lo! I have named her Mary, and lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast.”
-
-Sura 3:35-36
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Thus, we clearly see that the wife of ‘Imram (the Biblical Amram) gave birth (and not in any extended sense) to the same Mary who gave birth to Jesus (Sura 3:45)! The Koran is clearly in error, and the attempt to protect it is destroyed by evidence within the Koran itself.
-
Moses and Samaritans
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In Sura 20:85-88, 95, we are told that it was a Samaritan that deceived the Israelites into making the golden calf after the exodus out of Egypt. However, there was no such thing as a Samaritan until the city of Samaria was founded several centuries after the events in Exodus, and the separate people called Samaritans (the implied definition in the Koran) did not exist until even later when Assyria invaded the Northern Kingdom. This is yet another embarrassing time compression found in the Koran.
-
Some translations of the Koran try to get around this by not translating the Arabic word,“as-Samiri”. Yusuf Ali, ever the Islamic apologist, left the word as “Samiri”, and Muhammad Pickthall left his as “As-Samarii.” Both refused to translate the word probably because of the obvious historical anachronism. However, the Arabic text is clear, and the word means “the Samaritan”. As the author on Answering-Islam put it:
-
“Every once in a while, knowledgeable Arab Muslims who have not been contaminated yet by the apologetics around this issue naturally confirm that “as-Saamiri” indeed means “the Samaritan”. It never crossed their mind that this would mean anything else.”
-
-Answering-Islam, Moses and the Samaritan
-
www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/qbhc01.h...
-
Muhammad was probably confused and mixed up the accounts of the golden calf right after the exodus and the golden calf worshipped by the Northern Kingdom (whose capital was Samaria). For more on this, go here:
-
www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/qbhc01.h...
-

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#40762 Jun 24, 2013
"oinkoinkbuster"
Lesson number 5 for "oinkoinkbuster" who is on social security and has very little education to believe that the bible is factual..........
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Moses and the Gospel
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While talking to Moses, God supposedly says:
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“Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom [the Israelites] will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them.”
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-Sura 7:157
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Clearly, the Koran is saying that the Israelites can find predictions of this “Prophet” in the Torah (Old Testament) and the Gospel (New Testament)“(which are) with them”. The obvious error, here, is that the Israelites of Moses’ time did not possess the Gospel! The New Testament would not be written for another fifteen hundred years!
-
Muslims try to reconcile this hopeless passage by saying that this is referring to the Gospel that would come to later Israelites. However, the passage is clearly referring to the Israelites contemporary with Moses because the verbs are in the present tense (i.e.“(which are) with them”). Second, as I have shown in the article on the Biblical texts used for Muhammad, there are no prophecies that predict the coming of a prophet who can “neither read nor write” in the Bible.

oinkoinkbuster

East Maitland, Australia

#40763 Jun 25, 2013
Convicts this will make you cry like little girls in frocks, LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL

Barboon44, you must read this, its more fun than your grand pop doing your whore mum,,,,,,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL

China, Hong Kong and Russia Foil US Attempt to Silence NSA Whistleblower
Snowden’s Escape

by DAVE LINDORFF

Now that Edward Snowden is safely away out of the clutches of the US police state, at least for now, let’s take a moment to contemplate how this one brave man’s principled confrontation with the Orwellian US government has damaged our national security state.

Firstly, there are the four computers loaded with National Security Agency secrets, which have already exposed the details of how our government is monitoring our entire national communications grid, prying into the details of the telephonic and internet activity of every American citizen. We’ve only begun to learn about the ugly totalitarian activities of our government, and now that Snowden is safe from arrest, we will no doubt learn much more.

Second, the US has been humiliated by both China and Russia, which have demonstrated dramatically that they cannot be intimidated by the world’s dominant superpower, which stands revealed as less super and less powerful than it has been claiming. China, according to local experts on Hong Kong/China relations like Chinese University of Hong Kong professor Willie Lam, intervened in the legal process to tell Hong Kong authorities not to honor the US government’s arrest warrant on espionage and theft of official secrets charges, and to allow him to leave the territory. Russia, meanwhile, whose President Vladimir Putin had already volunteered to grant Snowden amnesty, provided the world’s most celebrated whistleblower a seat on an Aeroflot flight from Hong Kong to Moscow, where he just landed safely today.

The US was left to bluster impotently that Hong Kong’s unwillingness to arrest and hold Snowden in response to the US indictment and extradition request was a sign that the Hong Kong Special Administration Region, which is supposed, under Chinese Law, to have autonomy from Beijing, and to be able to follow its own laws, including an extradition treaty with the US which was signed a year before the territory was handed over from British to Chinese control in 1996, was actually not so autonomous. As an unidentified “senior official” of the Obama administration was reported saying to the Washington Post,“”If Hong Kong doesn’t act soon, it will complicate our bilateral relations and raise questions about Hong Kong’s commitment to the rule of law.”

That line must be evoking gales of laughter around the world, and could also be a laugh line for local comics here in the US, where the rule of law died years ago with the illegal invasion of Iraq, the illegal secret rendition, detainment and torture of hundreds of suspects in the Bush/Obama “War” on Terror, the continued operation of the internationally illegal Guantanamo Bay detention and torture center, the three-year detainment without trial and torture of Army whistleblower Bradley Manning, the extra-legal killing of Americans by drone-launched missile attacks, and the NSA spying on all Americans, begun as early as 2007. Meanwhile, the high-minded sounding US talk about respecting the “rule of law” has also been exposed as a fraud by the latest execution slaying of Ibragim Todashev, shot six times, including an execution shot to the back of the head, by an FBI agent at the end of a three-hour middle-of-the-night interrogation in Todashev’s Orlando, Florida apartment. Todashev, an acquaintance of slain Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev, had been being interrogated by three FBI agents, along with several Massachusetts State Troopers, when all but one agent inexplicably left the room, leaving him alone with one agent. The agent claims Todashev attacked him, initially claiming that all manner of weapons were involved, but later admitted the suspect was unarmed.
oinkoinkbuster

East Maitland, Australia

#40764 Jun 25, 2013
Nonetheless, the agent emptied his revolver into the man. It subsequently came out that in 150 cases of FBI agents shooting a suspect since 1993 (including 70 fatalities), investigations by the FBI had concluded that “all were justified.”(Even the LAPD and the NYPD don’t make that kind of an absurd claim.) Snowden’s revelations also exposed the US as a hypocrite in accusing China of criminally hacking into US corporate and government computers. It turns out that the US itself is the biggest official hacker, with a massive campaign, run out of the NSA, of hacking into Chinese, Hong Kong, Iranian and other countries’ computer systems, and of actually engaging in a kind of undeclared computer warfare against rival states against which this country is not, officially, at war.

All in all, Snowden, acting on his own at great personal risk, has done a remarkable amount of damage to the US national security state. He has not, as the fascist apologists in Congress, in the Obama administration and in the media are howling, damaged US security, or put American lives in jeopardy. On the contrary, he has damaged those in power who are undermining Americans’ freedom and what is left of our democracy. Most Americans seem to get this, even in the face of several weeks of an orchestrated government and corporate media campaign to smear him and label him a traitor, with even poorly worded polls showing that 54 percent of Americans think Snowden should be prosecuted for what he did, but 49% say the release of classified government information “serves rather than harms” the public interest. As well, 63 percent say their privacy would be violated if information has been collected by the NSA about their communications.

Here’s hoping Snowden finds a safe place to settle down — whether it’s Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Ecuador or wherever (my advice would be Uruguay)— and that he manages to obtain protection against criminal US efforts to terminate him or to rendition him to Guantanamo or to a US holding cell. From there, he can judiciously release more of his trove of data, further exposing and undermining the workings of the US security state. One thing is certain: The US government’s offing or locking away of Snowden would do nothing at this point to stop the flow of information about the workings of the NSA’s domestic and international spying operation. His data is now, almost certainly, also in the hands of Russian, and possibly Chinese authorities, as well as journalists and the Wikileaks organization, which, according to founder Julian Assange, was instrumental in helping Snowden arrange for asylum from the US torture/prosecution machine, including helping him obtain travel documents after the US, on Saturday, revoked his US passport, effectively making him a “stateless” person (so much for that US citizenship we all assume is our birthright).

DAVE LINDORFF is a founding member of ThisCantBeHappening!, an online newspaper collective, and is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press).

Now if this is not criminals than what is?
Dog Trainer

Australia

#40765 Jun 25, 2013
oinkoinkbuster wrote:
Nonetheless, the agent emptied his revolver into the man. It subsequently came out that in 150 cases of FBI agents shooting a suspect since 1993 (including 70 fatalities), investigations by the FBI had concluded that “all were justified.”(Even the LAPD and the NYPD don’t make that kind of an absurd claim.) Snowden’s revelations also exposed the US as a hypocrite in accusing China of criminally hacking into US corporate and government computers. It turns out that the US itself is the biggest official hacker, with a massive campaign, run out of the NSA, of hacking into Chinese, Hong Kong, Iranian and other countries’ computer systems, and of actually engaging in a kind of undeclared computer warfare against rival states against which this country is not, officially, at war.
All in all, Snowden, acting on his own at great personal risk, has done a remarkable amount of damage to the US national security state. He has not, as the fascist apologists in Congress, in the Obama administration and in the media are howling, damaged US security, or put American lives in jeopardy.
DAVE LINDORFF is a founding member of ThisCantBeHappening!, an online newspaper collective, and is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press).
Now if this is not criminals than what is?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/mid...

http://images.smh.com.au/2012/09/15/3637939/D...

These are the criminals DOG, and you better obey our laws or our police will arrest you. No matter how much you cowards cry Scum.
Dog Trainer

Australia

#40766 Jun 25, 2013
oinkoinkbuster wrote:
Convicts this will make you cry like little girls in frocks, LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL,LLOL
Barboon44, you must read this, its more fun than your grand pop do
Firstly, there are the four computers loaded with National Security Agency secrets, which have already exposed the details of how our government is monitoring our entire national communications grid, prying into the details of the telephonic and internet activity of every American citizen. We’ve only begun to learn about the ugly totalitarian activities of our government, and now that Snowden is safe from arrest, we will no doubt learn much more.
Second, the US has been humiliated by both China and Russia, which have demonstrated dramatically that they cannot be intimidated by the world’s dominant superpower, which stands revealed as less super and less powerful than it has been claiming. China, according to local experts on Hong Kong/China relations like Chinese University of Hong Kong professor Willie Lam, intervened in the legal process to tell Hong Kong authorities not to honor the US government’s arrest warrant on espionage and theft of official secrets charges, and to allow him to leave the territory. Russia, meanwhile, whose President Vladimir Putin had already volunteered to grant Snowden amnesty, provided the world’s most celebrated whistleblower a seat on an Aeroflot flight from Hong Kong to Moscow, where he just landed safely today.
The US was left to bluster impotently that Hong Kong’s unwillingness to arrest and hold Snowden in response to the US indictment and extradition request was a sign that the Hong Kong Special Administration Region, which is supposed, under Chinese Law, to have autonomy from Beijing, and to be able to follow its own laws, including an extradition treaty with the US which was signed a year before the territory was handed over from British to Chinese control in 1996, was actually not so autonomous. As an unidentified “senior official” of the Obama administration was reported saying to the Washington Post,“”If Hong Kong doesn’t act soon, it will complicate our bilateral relations and raise questions about Hong Kong’s commitment to the rule of law.”
That line must be evoking gales of laughter around the world, and could also be a laugh line for local comics here in the US, where the rule of law died years ago with the illegal invasion of Iraq, the illegal secret rendition, detainment and torture of hundreds of suspects in the Bush/Obama “War” on Terror, the continued operation of the internationally illegal Guantanamo Bay detention and torture center, the three-year detainment without trial and torture of Army whistleblower Bradley Manning, the extra-legal killing of Americans by drone-launched missile attacks, and the NSA spying on all Americans, begun as early as 2007. Meanwhile, the high-minded sounding US talk about respecting the “rule of law” has also been exposed as a fraud by the latest execution slaying of Ibragim Todashev, shot six times, including an execution shot to the back of the head, by an FBI agent at the end of a three-hour middle-of-the-night interrogation in Todashev’s Orlando, Florida apartment. Todashev, an acquaintance of slain Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev, had been being interrogated by three FBI agents, along with several Massachusetts State Troopers, when all but one agent inexplicably left the room, leaving him alone with one agent. The agent claims Todashev attacked him, initially claiming that all manner of weapons were involved, but later admitted the suspect was unarmed.
Ha DOG, who would read anything you write http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uplo... you DAM DIRTY APE !

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

May the Force be with You .

#40767 Jun 25, 2013
Baron44 wrote:
<quoted text>
-
Let me handle this Muslim ASS.
-
He still believes in fairy tales, next he be telling you that Mickey Mouse is alive and real. The Qur'an tells us that so it has to be real.
-
One has to be really stupid to believe that the stories in the bible and the Qur'an or the hadith are real.
-
I am sure he believes when it reads in the Qur'an that the sun sets in a slimy muddy pool. <<<< And Allah who created the earth and the sun, was Allah not even aware that the earth moved around the sun?
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And man's sperm comes from his backbone. <<< is that also the real facts, that came from Allah?
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The Koran claims that it was written by the perfect, immutable God who created the universe and knows all things. On the contrary, the Koran has a number of historical, theological, and other errors that contradict reality. Some of the more apparent ones will be brought forward. Unless stated otherwise, all most all Koranic quotes are lies, The Islamic God has to be pretty stupid to make that many errors, or was it lies to hood wink the Arabs?
-
Abraham and the Ka’bah
-
According to the Koran, Abraham and his son Ishmael were the ones who built the Ka’bah in Mecca (Sura 2:127). However, this contradicts all the history books known to man:
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There is no historical evidence for the assertion that Abraham or Ishmael was ever in Mecca, and if there had been such a tradition it would have to be explained how all memory of the Old Semitic name Ishmael (which was not in its true Arabian form in Arabian inscriptions and written correctly with an initial consonant Y) came to be lost. The form in the Quran is taken either from Greek or Syriac sources.”
-
Also, common sense screams against it. Abraham used to live in the city of Ur of the Chaldees (South East Iraq), and he moved west toward Canaan, a land very plentiful in food, not south toward Mecca, a city in the middle of the desert. Why would God promise to give Abraham’s posterity a land of abundant resources and then send him into a desert hell-hole where tribes would have to go to war every year just to fight over a well of water?!
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Alexander the Great – A Monotheist? <<<< A lie.
-
In Sura 18:83-97, we learn of the adventures of a man named “Dhu’l-Qarneyn,” a title that means “Two-Horned.” Furthermore, the story says that this Dhu’l-Qarneyn was a Muslim (i.e. a monotheist before Islam) and lived to a ripe old age. However, we know that “Two-Horned” was a common title of Alexander the Great in the Middle East during the time of Muhammad. The title “Two-Horned” came from Alexander’s belief that he was the son of the Egyptian god, Ammon, who was represented by a ram with two large horns. Not only was Alexander not a monotheist (i.e. he worshipped the Greek gods), but he also did not live to a ripe old age (i.e. he died at the age of 33).
-
Because this is a clear contradiction of history, modern Muslims want to rewrite history and say that Dhu’l-Qarneyn does not refer to Alexander the Great but some other person. However, as was proven in the article on the sources of the Koran, the story about Dhu’l-Qarneyn (in Sura 18:83-97) is the exact same story as the Romance of Alexander, a legendary Christian narrative that turns Alexander the Great into a monotheist. In the Romance of Alexander, Alexander, in one of his prayers, says,“O God…Thou hast made me horns upon my head,” and in the Ethiopic version of the legend, Alexander is always called the “the two-horned.” Second, scholars throughout the centuries (including many Muslims) agree that Dhu’l-Qarneyn is Alexander the Great. The Encyclopedia Britannica states:
-
“His [Muhammad’s] account of Alexander, introduced as “the two-horned one”(xviii, 82), is derived from the Romance of Alexander, which was current among the Nestorian Christians of the 7th Century in a Syriac version.”
-
Encyclopedia Britannica (London: Encyclopedia Britannica Inc., 1957), 15:479.
-
How far away from Makkah did Abraham live ?

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#40768 Jun 25, 2013
oinkoinkbuster wrote:
Nonetheless, the agent emptied his revolver into the man. It subsequently came out that in 150 cases of FBI agents shooting a suspect since 1993 (including 70 fatalities), investigations by the FBI had concluded that “all were justified.”(Even the LAPD and the NYPD don’t make that kind of an absurd claim.) Snowden’s revelations also exposed the US as a hypocrite in accusing China of criminally hacking into US corporate and government computers. It turns out that the US itself is the biggest official hacker, with a massive campaign, run out of the NSA, of hacking into Chinese, Hong Kong, Iranian and other countries’ computer systems, and of actually engaging in a kind of undeclared computer warfare against rival states against which this country is not, officially, at war.
All in all, Snowden, acting on his own at great personal risk, has done a remarkable amount of damage to the US national security state. He has not, as the fascist apologists in Congress, in the Obama administration and in the media are howling, damaged US security, or put American lives in jeopardy. On the contrary, he has damaged those in power who are undermining Americans’ freedom and what is left of our democracy. Most Americans seem to get this, even in the face of several weeks of an orchestrated government and corporate media campaign to smear him and label him a traitor, with even poorly worded polls showing that 54 percent of Americans think Snowden should be prosecuted for what he did, but 49% say the release of classified government information “serves rather than harms” the public interest. As well, 63 percent say their privacy would be violated if information has been collected by the NSA about their communications.
Here’s hoping Snowden finds a safe place to settle down — whether it’s Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Ecuador or wherever (my advice would be Uruguay)— and that he manages to obtain protection against criminal US efforts to terminate him or to rendition him to Guantanamo or to a US holding cell. From there, he can judiciously release more of his trove of data, further exposing and undermining the workings of the US security state. One thing is certain: The US government’s offing or locking away of Snowden would do nothing at this point to stop the flow of information about the workings of the NSA’s domestic and international spying operation. His data is now, almost certainly, also in the hands of Russian, and possibly Chinese authorities, as well as journalists and the Wikileaks organization, which, according to founder Julian Assange, was instrumental in helping Snowden arrange for asylum from the US torture/prosecution machine, including helping him obtain travel documents after the US, on Saturday, revoked his US passport, effectively making him a “stateless” person (so much for that US citizenship we all assume is our birthright).
DAVE LINDORFF is a founding member of ThisCantBeHappening!, an online newspaper collective, and is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press).
Now if this is not criminals than what is?
-
Soooo!!!!!!!!!!
what!!!!!!!!!!
Means fck all what you posted.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#40769 Jun 25, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
How far away from Makkah did Abraham live ?
-
Canaan is an ancient region known as present-day Israel, Lebanon, and the Palestine territories. It also includes the coastal lands of Jordan, Syria, and northeastern Egypt.
-
Canaan is an area not a town.

Depending where in Canaan he lived is how far he is from Makkah.

No car, trains, buses, or planes were available back in the days of Abraham, my guess walking in a desert with a herd of sheep would take ages to get to Mekkah say 60 days or more, it would be death march for there is no water, in Saudi.
-
Do you know how the well were discovered in Saudi?
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They were drilling for water.
-
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php...

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