Why should Australians fear from Musl...

Why should Australians fear from Muslims?

There are 46812 comments on the Scoop story from Dec 23, 2007, titled Why should Australians fear from Muslims?. In it, Scoop reports that:

About 800 people gathered in Camden, NSW and raised their voice against the plan for an Islamic School to be built in the area.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Scoop.

Islam plot holes 1

Australia

#35840 Jan 2, 2013
Manuscript, documentary and archaeological evidence fail to confirm the claims of Islam. 

The Jews ; The Quran implies that Muhammad severed his relationship with the Jews in 624 AD, soon after the Hijra (migration to Mecca). At that time the direction of prayer, the Qibla, was moved from Jerusalem to Mecca (Sura 2:144, 149-150).
However, non-Muslim sources, the Doctrina Iacobi and the Armenian Chronicle of 660 AD, maintain the Arabs and the Jews were allies as late as 640 AD, during the conquest of Palestine. Muhammad established a community of Ishmaelites and Jews based on their common birthright to the Holy Land. This relationship endured at least 15 years beyond the qur'anic date.
There is no doubt Muhammad himself lived and then died as a jewish outcast desperately trying to redeem himself after his self appointed status as a prophet was rejected by the Jews. 

The Quran is full of boastful then apologetic and contrite explanation from Muhammad himself as to being a 'jewish missionary' in the following  of Tuba'h (a famous Yemenite Arab/Jewish missionary who wrote much of the 'original book of rules' that now forms the basis of the Quran). But Muhammad was outcast for failure in Mekka to convert pagans, in 624 ad after being shunned by the Jews he went on to  incorporate pagan gods into a polytheistic apostasy of Tuba'h's works which was rejected by the Jews. Muhammad then lied about the Jewish intentions to the medina tribes and co-ordinated a treacherous attack on his hosts using Allah as a device to provide justification (see Quran for the full evidence of this). 
Islam plot holes 2

Australia

#35841 Jan 2, 2013
Continued 
Evidence why Islam is fake.
Mecca
According to the Quran, Mecca was the first and most important city in the world. Adam placed the black stone in the original Kaba (sanctuary) there, while Abraham and Ishmael rebuilt the Meccan Kaba centuries later (Sura 2:125-127). Mecca was allegedly the centre of Arabian trading routes before Muhammads time.
There is no archeological fact to this. The earliest reference to Mecca is in the Continuato Byzantia Arabica, an 8th century document. Mecca is not on the natural overland trade routes- it is a barren valley requiring a one hundred mile detour. Moreover, there was only maritime Graeco-Roman trade with India after the first century, controlled by the Ethiopian Red Sea port Adulis, not by the Arabs. Mecca was not even a place until first established by the Yemenites in 150ad as a trading post - documented at the time.
 The Quran fantasy of Hagar and Ishmael is a falsehood as there was no Mecca in existence in any form prior to 150 AD, subsequently confirmed with carbon dating and other archeology evidence. 
The Kabba at Mecca was originally a tent structure first established in 450 AD and the current Kabba was built in stages around 525ad. 
The Kabba was an ablutions block being used for the Vedic ritual of gathering and fertility paganised into Sumerian Habal or Sin moon god worship. 
Every town in that area had a Kabba of similar constriction, later these were removed by islamists to concentrate the 'pilgrim trade' to Mekka and Allah.
Therefore a central tenement in Islam, the linkage to Abraham and Hahar/Ishmael is proved false. 
 
Qibla
According to the Quran, the direction of prayer (Qibla) was canonized towards Mecca for all Muslims circa 624 AD, two years after the Hijra (see Sura 2:144, 149-50).
 Yet the earliest archaeological evidence from mosques built at the beginning of the 8th century shows this was in fact  Jerusalem.
Islam plot holes 3

Australia

#35842 Jan 2, 2013
Continued 
Evidence why Islam is fake.
Mecca
According to the Quran, Mecca was the first and most important city in the world. Adam placed the black stone in the original Kaba (sanctuary) there, while Abraham and Ishmael rebuilt the Meccan Kaba centuries later (Sura 2:125-127). Mecca was allegedly the centre of Arabian trading routes before Muhammads time.
There is no archeological fact to this. The earliest reference to Mecca is in the Continuato Byzantia Arabica, an 8th century document. Mecca is not on the natural overland trade routes- it is a barren valley requiring a one hundred mile detour. Moreover, there was only maritime Graeco-Roman trade with India after the first century, controlled by the Ethiopian Red Sea port Adulis, not by the Arabs. Mecca was not even a place until first established by the Yemenites in 150ad as a trading post - documented at the time.
 The Quran fantasy of Hagar and Ishmael is a falsehood as there was no Mecca in existence in any form prior to 150 AD, subsequently confirmed with carbon dating and other archeology evidence. 
The Kabba at Mecca was originally a tent structure first established in 450 AD and the current Kabba was built in stages around 525ad. 
The Kabba was an ablutions block being used for the Vedic ritual of gathering and fertility paganised into Sumerian Habal or Sin moon god worship. 
Every town in that area had a Kabba of similar constriction, later these were removed by islamists to concentrate the 'pilgrim trade' to Mekka and Allah.
Therefore a central tenement in Islam, the linkage to Abraham and Hahar/Ishmael is proved false. 
Islam plot holes 4

Australia

#35843 Jan 2, 2013
In the Arab religious texts from the earliest Sufyani period (661-684 AD) there is a monotheistic creed but a complete absence of any reference to Muhammad. 
His name is only found on Arab inscriptions after 690 AD.
 The formula Muhammad rasul Allah (Muhammad is Gods prophet) occurs first on an Arab-Sassanian coin from 690 AD, struck in Damascus. More importantly, the first appearance of the Triple Confession of Faith including the Tawhid (God is one), Muhammad rasul Allah (Muhammad is his prophet) and rasul Allah wa-abduhu (the human nature of Jesus) is in Abd al-Maliks inscription at the Dome of the Rock, dated 691 AD. 
Before this the Muslim confession of faith cannot be substantiated.

Hence, for a full 60 years after the death of Muhammad, the official Arab religious confession did not include Muhammad in its set formulae. Instead it revealed a monotheistic belief, developing Judaeo-Christian concepts in a particular literary style. 
When the Muhammadan creed is introduced, during the Marwanid period (after 684 AD) it appears almost overnight as the only form of official religious declaration in formal documents. 
It seems that Muhammads elevation to the status of universal prophet did not occur until the late 7th century, long after his death.

The Jews retained a relationship with the Arabs until at least AD 640, not 624 AD
Mecca did not exist prior to 150ad and the Kabba did not exist in any form until 450 ad where records exist of it's first establishment as a tent structure. 
The Qibla (direction of prayer) was not fixed towards Mecca until the 8th century, prior it was Jerusalem
The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem was the original sanctuary.
Muhammad was not known as the Seal of the Prophets until the late 7th century; the creeds from Muhammad's time contain a monotheistic religion but no Muhammadan formulae.
The earliest we even hear of mujhammads version of the Quran is not until the mid-8th century. Prior to that the script it is based on is the writings of Tuba'h - a well known and documented Arabic interpretation of the Torah written by the Red Sea Jews in collaboration with Yemminite arabs. 
Muhammad was a follower of Tuba'h as well as the Sabian moon good cult and the current Quran is clearly a synthesis of Tuba'h & Jewish 'book for arabs' then plagiarized to incorporate Allah as a replacement for Yahweh as supreme god (624).

The earliest quranic writings on coins and on the Dome of the Rock do not match current quranic text.
The Quran we now read is not the same as that which was supposedly collated and canonized in 650 AD by Uthman. 
The earliest quranic manuscripts in our possession today (dating from 790 AD) reflect that evolution in the quranic text.
 This challenges the Muslim contention that the Quran contains the original and exact revelation of Allah, as recited by Muhammad and hence strikes at the very heart of the Islamic faith. 

 Muslims can not ignore the evidence that the basis of their religion is shown to be false and an apostasy. 
Poor Muslims

Australia

#35844 Jan 2, 2013
Whew, well that means all those Muslims who wasted their time praying like frogs to a false god got really suckered in.
Surely given all the archeological and historical facts that today's islam is nothing more than a corrupted paganised version of some obscure judaism ishmaelite sect....
you would think there would be enquiring minds and logic within the Muslims to try and reconvert it back to a more pure and believable faith
system?
From what you say, the 'Islam' practiced today is not what even Muhammad believed and a complete made up confected corruption.
Not even a skerrick of historical or archeoligical evidence to support their core beliefs.
Tens of millions rotating themselves around a 1,500 year old toliet block praying to a false god.
I feel sorry for them.
Muslims are truely a lost tribe with no real god hiding behind their made up rituals and false preachings as an excuse of a faith.
Ivan

Australia

#35846 Jan 2, 2013
TeenActivist wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you evaluate every adherent of Islam through this one incident in ONE part of the world?
It's like saying all foods taste the same or all taste the shitt when you haven't tasted every food?
You need to open yourself, look beyond the horizon. We may have different beliefs but that should not differientiate us.
"evaluate every adherent of Islam through this one incident in ONE part of the world? "

One incident in one part of the world, every other day, makes a lot of incidents in many parts of the world.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/01/01/28125...

One Incident ? Open your other eye
TeenActivist

Sydney, Australia

#35847 Jan 2, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't understand what I said.
Catholic versus Protestants all through life and work ,got it ?
No I don't. Did you understand me?
TeenActivist

Sydney, Australia

#35848 Jan 2, 2013
sid wrote:
<quoted text>
So tell me which parts of the second paragraph are bullshit and which parts are true or do you believe all of it to be true.
You've only written a paragraph... Awkward :/

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

AUSTRALIAN

#35849 Jan 2, 2013
Islam plot holes 4 wrote:
In the Arab religious texts from the earliest Sufyani period (661-684 AD) there is a monotheistic creed but a complete absence of any reference to Muhammad. 
His name is only found on Arab inscriptions after 690 AD.
 The formula Muhammad rasul Allah (Muhammad is Gods prophet) occurs first on an Arab-Sassanian coin from 690 AD, struck in Damascus. More importantly, the first appearance of the Triple Confession of Faith including the Tawhid (God is one), Muhammad rasul Allah (Muhammad is his prophet) and rasul Allah wa-abduhu (the human nature of Jesus) is in Abd al-Maliks inscription at the Dome of the Rock, dated 691 AD. 
Before this the Muslim confession of faith cannot be substantiated.
Hence, for a full 60 years after the death of Muhammad, the official Arab religious confession did not include Muhammad in its set formulae. Instead it revealed a monotheistic belief, developing Judaeo-Christian concepts in a particular literary style. 
When the Muhammadan creed is introduced, during the Marwanid period (after 684 AD) it appears almost overnight as the only form of official religious declaration in formal documents. 
It seems that Muhammads elevation to the status of universal prophet did not occur until the late 7th century, long after his death.
The Jews retained a relationship with the Arabs until at least AD 640, not 624 AD
Mecca did not exist prior to 150ad and the Kabba did not exist in any form until 450 ad where records exist of it's first establishment as a tent structure. 
The Qibla (direction of prayer) was not fixed towards Mecca until the 8th century, prior it was Jerusalem
The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem was the original sanctuary.
Muhammad was not known as the Seal of the Prophets until the late 7th century; the creeds from Muhammad's time contain a monotheistic religion but no Muhammadan formulae.
The earliest we even hear of mujhammads version of the Quran is not until the mid-8th century. Prior to that the script it is based on is the writings of Tuba'h - a well known and documented Arabic interpretation of the Torah written by the Red Sea Jews in collaboration with Yemminite arabs. 
Muhammad was a follower of Tuba'h as well as the Sabian moon good cult and the current Quran is clearly a synthesis of Tuba'h & Jewish 'book for arabs' then plagiarized to incorporate Allah as a replacement for Yahweh as supreme god (624).
The earliest quranic writings on coins and on the Dome of the Rock do not match current quranic text.
The Quran we now read is not the same as that which was supposedly collated and canonized in 650 AD by Uthman. 
The earliest quranic manuscripts in our possession today (dating from 790 AD) reflect that evolution in the quranic text.
 This challenges the Muslim contention that the Quran contains the original and exact revelation of Allah, as recited by Muhammad and hence strikes at the very heart of the Islamic faith. 
 Muslims can not ignore the evidence that the basis of their religion is shown to be false and an apostasy. 
Could it be true that the oldest Islamic writings are in the London museum ?
MabarCACA Controller

UK

#35850 Jan 2, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
Could it be true that the oldest Islamic writings are in the London museum ?
Who are "our"?

Why has your Hometown:Australia not been deleted?

Why have you not unhidden your location?

Why 19,226 posts for one person?

Why have not met your obligations and completed your assigned tasks

Why are you the epitome of stupidity?

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

AUSTRALIAN

#35851 Jan 2, 2013
Could someone tell us all what is the true story of how Sunni and Shiite commence,like they didn't wake up one morning and start hating each other.
Someone had to have got everyone steamed up over a period of time.
MabarCACA Controller

UK

#35852 Jan 2, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
Could someone tell us all what is the true story of how Sunni and Shiite commence,like they didn't wake up one morning and start hating each other.
Someone had to have got everyone steamed up over a period of time.
Who are "our" and "us"?

Why has your Hometown:Australia not been deleted?

Why have you not unhidden your location?

Why 19,226 posts for one person?

Why have not met your obligations and completed your assigned tasks

Why are you the epitome of stupidity?
Islam plot holes qa

Australia

#35853 Jan 2, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
Could it be true that the oldest Islamic writings are in the London museum ?
Yemmen. These are the original writings of Tuba'h done in conjunction with the Red Sea Jews. These artifacts predate Muhammad by several centuries and form the basis of the Quran (then known as the book of rules).
The jew had expelled from jerusalem. They settled in many places including the red sea coast. From medina they formed alliances with the yemminites to control the caravan trade.
The Jewish intent was a proto judaustic faith to convert the Arabs as the '13th' tribe ie Ishmaelites. Mekka was founded by the yemminites in 150 ad as a trading post but no water until 300 ad after a geological fracture created the current water soak.
Tuba'hs variant of Judaism was extensively followed and Muhammad circa 380-424ad was a convert and then a missionary for the Jews.(all in the Quran). However he failed in his mission having gone rogue and practicing pagan rituals (satanic verses etc). He was outcast in 624ad.
Tuba'h's book of rules (most of the basis of the Quran was then rehashed to promote Allah from being a minor to the supreme god replacing Yahweh. Muhammad made himself a prophet equal to Moses as well. All fantasy.
The original scriptures of Tuba'h are available in Yemmen and Jewish archives.
The british museum Koran you refer to is the post Muhammad version circa 640 ad.
It's the corrupted version post Muhammad but shows even then to be a proto judaustic variant with Muhammad essentially begging the Jews for forgiveness and asking to be re-accepted into their heaven (hence the night camel ride and
ascension as a Jew over the Jewish temple mount).
The assyids and then the Turks rewrote the
Koran. The Mongols then rewrote it again. It's been rewritten around 8 times so today it's a jumbled mish mash of contradictions and plot
holes.
Putting aside Allah as a minor Arab pagan diety (Habal moon god) and the Vedic haj ritual

(sabian venus moon conjunction) the actual Quran today is
Tuba'h orginal book of rules.
Muhammad replaced Yahweh with Allah and added in the sabian rituals.
The assyids & Turks rewrote the civil rules.
The Mongols rewrote the poll tax and empire control as well as obligations to empire.
Then you have Shia and Sunni variants - Shias believe with some justification that all Sunni are heretics following a false version of the Quran.
Key point tho.
Abraham, Hagar and Ishmael never went to mekka because it did not exist.
The whole legitimacy of the Quran and Islam quickly falls apart when this fact is understood.
Islam plot holes Etc

Australia

#35854 Jan 2, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
Could someone tell us all what is the true story of how Sunni and Shiite commence,like they didn't wake up one morning and start hating each other.
Someone had to have got everyone steamed up over a period of time.
The schism between Sunni and Shia was caused by a lack of succession plans - Islam was never intended to be a world religion.
Shia believe in bloodline god divined succession.
Sunni believe in ejected sucession.
Muhammads offspring were weak and sickly and the elected (Sunni) win the day. They killed all the Muhammad offspring they could. Shias still haven't got over it.
Derpybusters

UK

#35855 Jan 2, 2013
Islam plot holes Etc wrote:
<quoted text>
The schism between Sunni and Shia was caused by a lack of succession plans - Islam was never intended to be a world religion.
Shia believe in bloodline god divined succession.
Sunni believe in ejected sucession.
Muhammads offspring were weak and sickly and the elected (Sunni) win the day. They killed all the Muhammad offspring they could. Shias still haven't got over it.
Why are you bothering?

Nev is a regular visitor to the Middle Eastern forums and probably knows more about it than you do.
sid

Brisbane, Australia

#35856 Jan 2, 2013
TeenActivist wrote:
<quoted text>
You've only written a paragraph... Awkward :/
Second paragraph of post number #35834, which parts do you believe, which parts don't you believe or do you believe it's all true.

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

AUSTRALIAN

#35857 Jan 2, 2013
Derpybusters wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you bothering?
Nev is a regular visitor to the Middle Eastern forums and probably knows more about it than you do.
No I don't.
I have only ever got information from MUQ
Derpybusters

UK

#35858 Jan 2, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
No I don't.
I have only ever got information from MUQ
Silly boy, you maybe not what about the other one hundred strong in mind and body.

“Free Speech in a Free World ”

Since: May 10

AUSTRALIAN

#35859 Jan 2, 2013
Islam plot holes Etc wrote:
<quoted text>
The schism between Sunni and Shia was caused by a lack of succession plans - Islam was never intended to be a world religion.
Shia believe in bloodline god divined succession.
Sunni believe in ejected succession.
Muhammad's offspring were weak and sickly and the elected (Sunni) win the day. They killed all the Muhammad offspring they could. Shias still haven't got over it.
Who could have legal succession to Muhammad seeing the bloodline was slaughtered and who could think that prophets offspring or non family could inherit the position ?
Etc

Australia

#35860 Jan 2, 2013
Neville Thompson wrote:
<quoted text>
Who could have legal succession to Muhammad seeing the bloodline was slaughtered and who could think that prophets offspring or non family could inherit the position ?
Well - all the warring factions within Islam have a tenous if not fabricated claims - the Hashemite kingdoms and even the tribes of Saudi claim lineage or some authoritive legitimacy.
The fact Muhammad died a bastard son of a god that only spoke to him and there would never be anyone else that Allah would relay instructions to left a major plot hole. Further prophets and miracles were banned and the Quran was inviolable. So you have to tie your camel before prayers and worship a quite mad dysfunctional 5th century apostasy if your born into it - because your are condemned to that if born Islamic.
The penalty for choosing something else is
death.
Most Muslims, perhaps 90% only became Muslim because of the poll tax (tax on unbelievers) within Islam. When the mongols chose Islam over other alternatives because of it's tax/tribute mechanism huge swaths of humanity includung old India (now Pakistan/Banglidesh, east europe, south asia) were forced into Islam thru the Mongols then moguls. These people never chose Islam but were subjugated into it.
Today these people largely don't practice Islam and are really at heart animist or pagans as an Arab will readily tell you.
Ask MUQ - he's an Indian national in Saudi (so he says). Hasn't a clue about the basis or origin of Islam. He can only spout scriptural garbage the Arabs misinterpreted from the Jews and then proudly point out why the Arab plagiarism is superior ! MUQ is someone clearly wanting to be a Hindu or even Buddhist immersed in real holy and spiritual stuff but the poor boy is trapped in Islam where it's all tacky, fake, shallow and without any creditability. All he has is some imitative amateur hour Arab scribbles easily disproven and it must be very sad for him as his lost soul searches for meaning but Islam denies this.
That's what you dealing with - a whole generation of rote repeaters in Islam that can't
answer any question with fact or logic, and all the time the anxiety that their belief system is so patently fake and contradicted they themselves don't believe or follow it.
Taqiyya is their device to shield themselves from the uncomfortable facts. Lying to unbelievers somehow redeems a Muslim from the burden they are born into.
Odd religion isn't it?

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