'The War Is Not Over'

'The War Is Not Over'

There are 276631 comments on the Los Angeles Times story from Sep 12, 2006, titled 'The War Is Not Over'. In it, Los Angeles Times reports that:

WASHINGTON - President Bush led the nation on Monday in marking the fifth anniversary of the Sept.

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Since: Feb 13

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#286903 Mar 9, 2013
Tinka wrote:
What happened in here?
Judging from your many of your post over the past hour I would say you dropped Acid.
Sunlightfoundati on com

Oakdale, NY

#286906 Mar 10, 2013
Two Saudis in human rights group get 10 years in prison / March 9, 2013 / http://tinyurl.com/arebdws

(CNN)-- In a case that has captured international attention, two of Saudi Arabia's most prominent human rights activists were each sentenced on Saturday to at least 10 years in prison, Saudi activists report.

They had been found guilty earlier Saturday of providing inaccurate information to foreign media, founding and operating an unlicensed human rights organization, as well as other offenses.

Mohammed Al-Qahtani and Abdullah Al-Hamid, co-founders of the Saudi Civil and Political Rights Association, had been on trial since last year. The high-profile case has garnered widespread criticism from international rights groups that have said the charges against the men were politically motivated.

Saudi activists say kingdom trying to silence them

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/09/world/meast/sau...
ABs

Mcdonough, GA

#286908 Mar 10, 2013
Obama Still President wrote:
<quoted text>
MUQ, ABs is an atheist fascist. He of course has no cultural respect for other cultures, and for this reason you would be well-advised to avoid his efforts to antagonize you by his verbal abuse and attempts to demean the Prophet.
However, ABs is married (or was married) to a woman from a Third-World nation, and he seemed proud of this bit of "tolerance of diversity" on his part. I think she was a "mail-order bride" but I am not certain and I do not want to cast aspersions, as I am always happy to see even a fascist become more tolerant toward those who are diverse from him or her.
So the fact that ABs is (or was) married to a woman from a very different culture from his own (assuming ABs is native EuroAmerican) stands in contrast to his utter lack of respect for your Muslim religious heritage.
MUQ, I believe you are a Pakistani physician practicing in SA. I'd like to know your specialty. I want to point out to you that there are those of us, mostly liberals like me, who do respect other cultures and pride ourselves on conducting discussion and debate appropriately. Many of us do in fact know how to conduct a polite and civil discussion and debate. Be careful of painting with such a broad brush.
ABs is a fascist, which is an extreme social and economic conservative. Interestingly, strict adherents of Islam are often extremely socially conservative and economically conservative. So likely you and ABs actually share similar attitudes on many issues, both social and economic. It is therefore a shame that the two of you cannot find common ground to agree to disagree in an agreeable manner. Noxious insults are not, of course, conducive to good communicative practice.
MUQ, I know your efforts here on TWINO are intended to advance Islam, and I figure, perhaps incorrectly, that you are doing this to please Allah so that He will have mercy on your soul upon death. If you are a medical doctor, you are very familiar with death and perhaps fear it greatly. I would be interested to hear your personal perspective on human death and any potential afterlife.
I suppose that, according to Islam, if he does not change his ways, ABs is going to die and go to Hell, for eternity, a very, very long time.
OUCH, barkedale...that hurts...you know, you calling MUQ Pakistani again. Indians do not like to be called Pakistani and they look nothing alike so why do you keep implying that indian MUQ is pakistani? There you go again insulting my good friend and comrade MUQ. What is it with you always trying to imply that all brown skins look alike? What an insulting insensitive twit you can be at times, barkedale... Glad you have me figured out though although not sure what an athiest fascist would be...
I am curiuos though, barkester, how do you feel about Obumble the liberator having to be filibustered into not DRONING US citizens on U.S. soil...
ABs

Mcdonough, GA

#286909 Mar 10, 2013
rider wrote:
<quoted text> sounds as if Hamas is about 5 years behind the rightwing in America, as equal rights are concerned.
That puts them aboooot 10 years behind the current "I sure would like to be able to drone US citizens on US soil since I have already droned US citizens on foreign soil" adminstration, yes?
ABs

Mcdonough, GA

#286910 Mar 10, 2013
John_Schuylkill County_Pa wrote:
<quoted text>Good manners is showing up unannounced and blowing up innocents.
At least you are still alive, bad manners and all in the land of the Steelers and home of the Braves
Good manners is NOT COMPLAINING that this suicide vest makes me look fat...land of the RAVENS and home of the braves...
ABs

Mcdonough, GA

#286911 Mar 10, 2013
Tinka wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait the Braves maybe but the Steelers they are supposed to function under sportsmanship...
Unless they have a Braves the team...The Braves where are they playing out of?
ATLANTA - major league baseball, tink-tink...hope you are well as always...
ABs

Mcdonough, GA

#286912 Mar 10, 2013
Sunlightfoundation com wrote:
Two Saudis in human rights group get 10 years in prison / March 9, 2013 / http://tinyurl.com/arebdws
(CNN)-- In a case that has captured international attention, two of Saudi Arabia's most prominent human rights activists were each sentenced on Saturday to at least 10 years in prison, Saudi activists report.
They had been found guilty earlier Saturday of providing inaccurate information to foreign media, founding and operating an unlicensed human rights organization, as well as other offenses.
Mohammed Al-Qahtani and Abdullah Al-Hamid, co-founders of the Saudi Civil and Political Rights Association, had been on trial since last year. The high-profile case has garnered widespread criticism from international rights groups that have said the charges against the men were politically motivated.
Saudi activists say kingdom trying to silence them
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/09/world/meast/sau...
Mohammed Al-Qahtani...MAQ, hmmmmm...hope no relation to my comrade MUQ...surely they would not mistreat muslims in KSA...it is a muslim country after all...
Spocko

Oakland, CA

#286913 Mar 10, 2013
Sunlightfoundation com wrote:
Two Saudis in human rights group get 10 years in prison / March 9, 2013 / http://tinyurl.com/arebdws
(CNN)-- In a case that has captured international attention, two of Saudi Arabia's most prominent human rights activists were each sentenced on Saturday to at least 10 years in prison, Saudi activists report.
They had been found guilty earlier Saturday of providing inaccurate information to foreign media, founding and operating an unlicensed human rights organization, as well as other offenses.
Mohammed Al-Qahtani and Abdullah Al-Hamid, co-founders of the Saudi Civil and Political Rights Association, had been on trial since last year. The high-profile case has garnered widespread criticism from international rights groups that have said the charges against the men were politically motivated.
Saudi activists say kingdom trying to silence them
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/09/world/meast/sau...
Apparently the Saudis have problems scheduling their daily beheadings because of a shortage of swordsmen - I'm not kidding!
Spocko

Oakland, CA

#286914 Mar 10, 2013
Gun laws in the US are so f-ing ridicules, it is actually far easier to buy a gun then it is to by a puppy or even cough medicine. Buying a gun in much of America can be as simple as forking over the cash, with no questions asked and no background check. In fact, it is much more of a hassle to buy over the counter medication than it is to purchase a firearm. A small handful of state legislatures are making an effort to change that by pushing for more effective gun laws that will actually do something. Gun laws vary dramatically from state to state, in Texas for example, there is no waiting period and no state gun registration system it is like buying candy. Federal law requires that all licensed firearms dealers (the US has more fire arms dealers than grocery stores) conduct background checks, but the restriction doesn't apply to private sales and gun shows where they are simply ignored. The NRA, which went from a benevolent and useful organization to high powered lobbying machine spreading falsehoods and lies, has been holding the country hostage for many years ...
Sunlight Foundation com

Oakdale, NY

#286915 Mar 10, 2013
Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently the Saudis have problems scheduling their daily beheadings because of a shortage of swordsmen - I'm not kidding!
At first glace I did not believe that.

I just looked it up.

You really were not kidding.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57573474/...
Sunlight Foundation com

Oakdale, NY

#286916 Mar 10, 2013
ABs wrote:
<quoted text>
Mohammed Al-Qahtani...MAQ, hmmmmm...hope no relation to my comrade MUQ...surely they would not mistreat muslims in KSA...it is a muslim country after all...
We have not heard from MUQ.

I hope he is not one of the two in prison.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#286918 Mar 10, 2013
News you will not see or hear on CNN and FOX News

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti...

How America Kills

By Chris Hayes

And it is true polls show that majorities of Democrats, Republicans and Independents support targeted killing and the drone strikes that carry them out. Partly, I think that’s due to the fact that the public hasn’t been given much information about exactly how the administration has come to the conclusion that it can carry out these killings, even against citizens, and partly because the worst effects of the policy, the collateral damage, or more accurately the children as young as one year old who our weapons kill, are almost entirely invisible to us.

But it also seems possible to me that even with a full accounting of the program, many, perhaps even a majority of Democrats, even self-described liberals might support the targeted killing policy for, I believe, the same reason a blogger named Lou Siegel gave this week.“Though this might sound like a ‘cold war liberal’ defending CIA-led coups and military interventions,” he wrote:

“I support President Obama’s drone attacks. And I admit that I’m a hypocrite. If a republican administration were executing these practices, I’d probably join the chorus to condemn them as unconstitutional, authoritarian or worse. But I trust this president’s judgment that the drones are a legitimate way to take out terrorists who would–if they could–kill thousands of Americans. He’s making a trade-off, knowing that a successful massive terrorist attack against us would result in far greater damage to our democratic institutions.”

I think this is probably the most honest defense of the program you’ll hear from liberals. They trust President Obama to wield broad, lethal executive authority with care and prudence. And besides: it’s war, would you rather, I am often asked by supporters of the kill list, that we have boots on the ground, big expensive, destructive deadly disastrous land invasions of countries like the Iraq war? Isn’t the move from wars like Iraq to “surgical strikes” in Yemen precisely the kind of change we were promised?

This narrow choice between big violence and smaller violence shows, I think, just how fully we have all implicitly adopted the conceptual framework of the War on Terror, how much George W. Bush’s advisers continue to set the terms of our thinking years after they’d been dispatched from office. Because that argument presupposes that we are at war and must continue to be at war until an ill-defined enemy is vanquished.

What, people ask, is the alternative to small war, if not big war? And the answer no one ever seems to even consider is: no war. If the existence of people out in the world who are actively working to kill Americans means we are still at war, then it seems to me we will be at war forever, and will surrender control over whether that is the state we do in fact want to be in. There’s another alternative: we can be a nation that declares its war over, that declares itself at peace and goes about rigorously and energetically using intelligence and diplomacy and well-resourced police work to protect us from future attacks.

MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#286919 Mar 10, 2013
The Obama administration quite ostentatiously jettisoned the phrase war on terror from its rhetoric, but it’s preserved and further expanded its fundamental logic and legal architecture. Even after the troops come home from Afghanistan, we will still be a nation at war.
\
In 1832, German military theorist Carl von Clausewitz declared that “War is an act of force, and there is no logical limit to the application of that force….a clash of forces freely operating and obedient to no law but their own.” Much of the history of war and international law in the last century, particularly after the horror of the second world war, was an attempt to prove Clausewitz wrong. But we shouldn’t fool ourselves. We may find ourselves at some point facing a stark choice between the war we are now fighting and the law which we all at least pretend is the bedrock of our republic.

I say we choose the law.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#286920 Mar 10, 2013
Sunlight Foundation com wrote:
<quoted text>
We have not heard from MUQ.
I hope he is not one of the two in prison.
Want to send a couple of drones to search for me?
rider

Gwinn, MI

#286921 Mar 11, 2013
After obtaining his Master's degree in India, he moved to neighboring Pakistan to work as a fundraiser for the anti-communist mujahideen during the 1980s Soviet war in Afghanistan.[8] The Mujahideen were backed by the United States, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran, and Karzai was a contractor for the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) at the time.[9] While Karzai remained in Pakistan during the Soviet intervention,[10] his siblings emigrated to the United States.[8]
Following the withdrawal of Soviet forces, Hamid Karzai returned to Afghanistan in early October 1988 to assist in the Mujahideen victory in Tarinkot. Hamid Karzai assisted in rallying Polpalzai Durrani tribes to oust the regime from the city as well as helped negotiate the defection of five hundred of Dr. Najib's forces.[11]
American Special Forces and Hamid Karzai during Operation Enduring Freedom in October 2001.When Najibullah's Soviet-backed government collapsed in 1992, the Peshawar Accords agreed upon by the Afghan political parties established the Islamic State of Afghanistan and appointed an interim government to be followed by general elections. Karzai accompanied the first mujahideen leaders into Kabul in 1992 following the Soviet withdrawal.[10] He served as Deputy Foreign Minister in the government of Burhanuddin Rabbani. Karzai was, however, arrested by Mohammad Fahim (Karzai's current Vice President) on charges of spying for Gulbuddin Hekmatyar in what Karzai claimed was an effort to mediate between Hekmatyar's militia and the Islamic State. When he was released Karzai fled from Kabul in a vehicle provided by Hekmatyar and driven by Gul Rahman.[12]
When the Taliban emerged in the mid-1990s, Karzai initially recognized them as a legitimate government because he thought that they would stop the violence and corruption in his country.[13] He was asked by the Taliban to serve as their ambassador, but he refused, telling friends that he felt Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was wrongly using them.[1] He lived in Pakistan as among the Afghan refugees, where he worked to reinstate former Afghan King Zahir Shah. On the morning of 14 July 1999, Karzai's father, Abdul Ahad Karzai, was gunned down as he was coming home from a mosque in the city of Quetta. Reports suggest that the Taliban carried out the assassination.[1] Following this incident, Karzai decided to work closely with the United Front (Northern Alliance), which was led by Ahmad Shah Massoud. In 2000 and 2001, he traveled to Europe and the United States to help gather support for the anti-Taliban movement.
As the United States armed forces were preparing for a confrontation with the Taliban in September 2001, Karzai began urging NATO nations to purge his country of Al-Qaeda. He told BBC "These Arabs, together with their foreign supporters and the Taliban, destroyed miles and miles of homes and orchards and vineyards... They have killed Afghans. They have trained their guns on Afghan lives... We want them out."[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Karzai
rider

Gwinn, MI

#286922 Mar 11, 2013
Meanwhile, even more trouble for our former-Texas-oil-man-turned-Pr esident is brewing with reports that unveil UNOCAL, another big energy company, for being in bed with the Taliban, along with the U.S. government in a major, continuing effort to construct pipelines through Afghanistan from the petroleum-rich Caspian Basin in Central Asia. Beneath their burkas, UNOCAL is being exposed for giving the five star treatment to Taliban Mullahs in the Lone Star State in 1997. The “evil-ones” were also invited to meet with U.S. government officials in Washington, D.C.

According to a December 17, 1997 article in the British paper, The Telegraph, headlined,“Oil barons court Taliban in Texas,” the Taliban was about to sign a “?2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across the war-torn country.… The Islamic warriors appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality.… Dressed in traditional salwar khameez,Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/01/10/bush-e...
rider

Gwinn, MI

#286923 Mar 11, 2013
Back in Houston, the Taliban was learning how the “other half lives,” and according to The Telegraph,“stayed in a five-star hotel and were chauffeured in a company minibus.” The Taliban representatives “…were amazed by the luxurious homes of Texan oil barons. Invited to dinner at the palatial home of Martin Miller, a vice-president of Unocal, they marveled at his swimming pool, views of the golf course and six bathrooms.” Mr. Miller, said he hoped that UNOCAL had clinched the deal.

Dick Cheney was then CEO of Haliburton Corporation, a pipeline services vendor based in Texas. Gushed Cheney in 1998,“I can’t think of a time when we’ve had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian. It’s almost as if the opportunities have arisen overnight. The good Lord didn’t see fit to put oil and gas only where there are democratically elected regimes friendly to the United States. Occasionally we have to operate in places where, all things considered, one would not normally choose to go. But we go where the business is.” Would Cheney bargain with the harborers of U.S. troop killers if that’s where the business was?

The Telegraph reported that Unocal had promised to start building the pipeline and paying the Taliban immediately, with the added inducements and a donation of ?500,000 to the University of Nebraska for courses in Afghanistan to train 400 teachers, electricians, carpenters and pipefitters.

The Telegraph also reported,“The US government, which in the past has branded the Taliban’s policies against women and children “despicable”, appears anxious to please the fundamentalists to clinch the lucrative pipeline contract.” In a paper prepared by Neamatollah Nojumi, at the Tufts University Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Nojumi wrote in August 1997 that Madeline Albright sat in a “full-dress CIA briefing” on the Caspian region. CIA agents then accompanied “some well-trained petroleum engineers” to the region. Albright concluded that shaping the region’s policies was “one of the most exciting things that we can do.”
rider

Gwinn, MI

#286924 Mar 11, 2013
It’s also exciting to the Bush Administration. According to the authors of Bin Laden, the Hidden Truth, one of the FBI’s leading counter terrorism agents, John O’Neill, resigned last year in protest over the Bush Administration’s alleged obstruction of his investigation into bin Laden.(A similar complaint has been filed on behalf of another unidentified FBI Agent by the conservative Judicial Watch public interest group.) Supposedly the Bush Administration had been meeting since January 2001 with the Taliban, and was also reluctant to offend Saudi Arabians who O’Neill had linked to bin Laden. Mr. O’Neill, after leaving the FBI, assumed the position of security director at the World Trade Center, where he was killed in the 911 attacks.

As America’s New War now begins focusing on other “rogue nations,” UNOCAL’s stars have magically aligned. About two months after the Houston parties, UNOCAL executive John Maresca addressed the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific and urged support for establishment of an investor-friendly climate in Afghanistan,“… we have made it clear that construction of our proposed pipeline cannot begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders and our company.” Meaning that UNOCAL’s ability to construct the Afghan pipeline was a cause worthy of U.S. taxpayer dollars.
rider

Gwinn, MI

#286926 Mar 11, 2013
On August 10, 2005, Unocal merged with Chevron Corporation and became a wholly owned subsidiary. Unocal has now ceased operations as an independent company, but continues to conduct many operations as Union Oil Company of California, a Chevron company.
Leaving a wave of controversy in its wake, one of the most visible reminders of the Bush administration's ties to big oil - the 129,000-ton Chevron tanker Condoleezza Rice - has quietly been renamed, Chevron officials acknowledged yesterday.

"We made the change to eliminate the unnecessary attention caused by the vessel's original name," said Chevron spokesman Fred Gorell.

In March 2005, the Chinese National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) tried to acquire Unocal with a bid that valued Unocal at between $16 billion and $18 billion. Following a vote in the United States House of Representatives, the bid was referred to President George W. Bush, on the grounds that its implications for national security needed to be reviewed.[9] CNOOC withdrew its bid. Soon after, Unocal merged with Chevron.

The merger was seen as U.S. protectionism in the involvement of political interests where CNOOC was made aware of a "harsh political reaction" to a take over of American companies.[10] American congressmen cited "national security" as a reason for being alarmed by the takeover option.[11]

Unocal was one of the key players in the CentGas consortium, an attempt to build the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline to run from the Caspian area, through Afghanistan and probably Pakistan, to the Indian Ocean. One of the consultants to Unocal at that time was Zalmay Khalilzad, former US ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the United Nations.

In the 1980s, CIA chief Bill Casey had revived the agency's practise of gaining intelligence from traveling businessmen. Marty Miller, one of Unocal's top executives, conducted negotiations in several Central Asian countries from 1995, and voluntarily provided information gained on these trips to the CIA's Houston station.[12]

In 1996, Unocal opened an office in Kandahar, Afghanistan, while the Taliban were in the process of taking control of the country.

Unocal rented a house in central Kandahar directly across the street from one of [Osama] bin Laden's new compounds. They did not choose this location deliberately. Most of the decent houses in town straddled the Herat Bazaar Road. Also near was the Pakistani consulate, which housed officers from [the Pakistani military Inter-Services Intelligence, the] ISI.
—Steve Coll, Ghost Wars[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unocal_Corporati...
rider

Gwinn, MI

#286927 Mar 11, 2013
Warning the world (September 11, 2001)
Group of former Soviet militarymen, led by Col. Leonid Khabarov (center,) standing by the Massoud’s Tomb, commemorating his memory (2009)In the spring 2001, Ahmad Shah Massoud had addressed the European Parliament in Brussels, saying that Pakistan was behind the situation in Afghanistan.[84] He also said that he believed that, without the support of Pakistan, Osama Bin Laden, and Saudi Arabia, the Taliban would not be able to sustain their military campaign for up to a year. He said the Afghan population was ready to rise against them.[84] Addressing the United States specifically, he warned that should the U.S. not work for peace in Afghanistan and put pressure on Pakistan to cease their support to the Taliban, the problems of Afghanistan would soon become the problems of the U.S. and the world.[84][108]

Declassified Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) documents from November 2001 show that Massoud had gained "limited knowledge... regarding the intentions of [Al-Qaeda] to perform a terrorist act against the US on a scale larger than the 1998 bombing of the US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania."[85][109] They noted that he warned about such attacks.[85][109]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Masso...

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