'The War Is Not Over'

'The War Is Not Over'

There are 276640 comments on the Los Angeles Times story from Sep 12, 2006, titled 'The War Is Not Over'. In it, Los Angeles Times reports that:

WASHINGTON - President Bush led the nation on Monday in marking the fifth anniversary of the Sept.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Los Angeles Times.


Oakland, CA

#285702 Dec 6, 2012
May I suggest an old-fashion public hanging for the terrible 7!
They fed our greed and guilt and told us we could have all the spending and tax cuts, too.

Arthur Laffer,
The economist who "proved" the existence of the free lunch.

Pete Peterson,
A hedge-fund billionaire who was a Cabinet secretary in the Reagan administration

Alan Greenspan,
The high priest of both guilt and greed, he told Congress that the worst thing it could do was pay down the debt.

George W. Bush,
Tax cuts for all occasions! He campaigned in 2000 on a promise to cut taxes in the face of a federal budget surplus. And when the recession of 2001 arrived, he said tax cuts would revive the economy. And when the economy didn't revive, he cut taxes some more.

Dick Cheney,
For the first time in our history, we sent our military into battle without raising taxes at home to help pay for it. It added trillions to the debt.

David Lereah,
Chief economist for the National Association of Realtors cheerleader for the housing bubble.

Grover Norquist,
The Republican troll who gave us the Norquist Pledge which blocked any possibility of a budget deal between Democrats and Republicans over the past four years.

Marquette, MI

#285703 Dec 6, 2012
The JBS (i.e., John Birch Society) was with the CNP from the beginning. Nelson Bunker Hunt, mentioned earlier as a prime mover in CNP's founding, was on the ...

Marquette, MI

#285706 Dec 6, 2012
Peter Peterson Spent Nearly Half A Billion In Washington Targeting Social Security, Medicare

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#285708 Dec 6, 2012
ABs wrote:
<quoted text>
Latest in land of Islam...Supporters of Morsi stormed an encampment of 200 protesters, ripping down their tents, the Los Angeles Times reports. "The problem is that these people could say no" in an upcoming constitutional referendum, "but they don't want a referendum," said one Morsi backer. "They don't want a democracy." Meanwhile, three of Morsi's non-Brotherhood aides have quit: "Egypt is bigger than a narrow-minded elite," said Seif Abdel Fattah. "We can no longer stay silent because the Brotherhood has harmed the nation and the revolution."
Question comrade muq...what is your opinion of the muslim brotherhood?
These are "gives and takes" of democracy.

They are new to this trade and they will need more time to learn.

While you people are "professional" you go outside and "bang" other countries when you are in foul mood.

We are just novices, we have to learn much from the "professionals".
John_Schuylkill County_Pa

Sunbury, PA

#285709 Dec 7, 2012
ABs wrote:
How did your Ravens losing nevermore manage to lose to and let the squeelers back in the hunt???
My falcants....CAN
It's better to lose now and not in the playoffs

Aiken, SC

#285712 Dec 7, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
These are "gives and takes" of democracy.
They are new to this trade and they will need more time to learn.
While you people are "professional" you go outside and "bang" other countries when you are in foul mood.
We are just novices, we have to learn much from the "professionals".
Speaking of giving and taking, or more like moving and aking...seems Hamas leaders are taking taking exile in any country they can these days, with all the uprisings in the lands of muhammid and all...

News you will not see on IRNA or Al Jazeera...
Its political leaders in exile, Mr Meshaal included, have therefore had a transitory life.

He was in Jordan in 1997, in charge of international fundraising at the Hamas bureau in Amman, when Israeli agents tried to assassinate him with poison. King Hussein demanded an antidote to the poison from Israel.

Jordan closed the bureau in the late 1990s and briefly jailed Mr Meshaal before expelling him to Qatar.

Mr Meshaal then headed to Syria, where he became political leader in exile.

Syria welcomed the group, providing its leaders with a safe haven, and helping to supply it with weapons and money for the armed struggle against Israel, with which Syria is still technically at war.

But in February 2012, Mr Meshaal and the rest of the political leadership in exile moved from Syria to Egypt and Qatar.

The move followed a declaration of support for the Syrian people in their uprising against President Bashar al-Assad by the head of the Hamas government in Gaza, Ismail Haniya.

Analysts said the Sunni Islamist Hamas was torn between risking the support of its main financial backers - Syria and its ally, Iran - and supporting Syria's majority Sunni community, which has borne the brunt of the crackdown by the Alawite-dominated security forces.

Why can't we ALL just get along, Muq? When will muslims get over hating the jews so the world can prosper? Just curious...

Aiken, SC

#285713 Dec 7, 2012
News you will not see on IRNA...why it was believed there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and why Lord Bush had to make sure they were no more...

Nearly 25 years ago, Iraqi forces killed thousands of their own civilians using chemical weapons on the Kurdish town of Halabja. Now steps are about to be taken to discover which country - and possibly which factory - supplied some of the chemicals.

The result of the chemical warfare attack on Halabja, on 16 March 1988, was one of the worst sights I have ever seen. Everywhere there were huddled bodies, lying in the street, sheltering against walls.

When I looked closer, I could see that many of them were protecting someone else, who was also dead: a baby, a child, a wife.

There was no protection against the nerve agents and gases which Saddam Hussein's men had dropped indiscriminately on Halabja to teach its Kurdish inhabitants a lesson.

I had seen the results of chemical warfare against soldiers, earlier in the Iran-Iraq War; that was terrible enough. But seeing what these insidious, cruel gases did to wholly unprotected men, women and children was worse.

Sometimes the gases which the Iraqi air force had used had an almost instantaneous effect. I saw one house where a bomb had penetrated the ceiling of a room in which several people had been eating a meal.

All were dead; but it had clearly happened within a second or so. One old man had died as he bit off a piece of bread. Another was smiling, and seemed to have been cut off in the middle of a joke.

Other people had died slowly and in the most excruciating pain.

I saw a woman whose body was twisted almost into a circle, the back of her head touching her feet. There was vomit and blood on her clothes, and her face was contorted in agony.
The Iraqi air force used a variety of chemicals against the town: nerve agents like VX, Sarin and Tabun, and the terrible but far more primitive mustard gas, the use of which dates back to World War I.
Why had these people died? Because, in the last weeks of the Iran-Iraq War, Halabja had greeted the advancing Iranian troops with joy. Saddam Hussein and his cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali", decided to make an example of them.

Aiken, SC

#285714 Dec 7, 2012
Yet a quarter of a century later, the horror is not over. Some of the mustard gas which was used is still present in the cellars of the town, where people took refuge during the bombing.

Unlike the nerve agents, which evaporated very fast, mustard gas is heavier than air. It sinks down and forms pockets which are still dangerous today.

When my team and I went down the steps of one house into the cellar, the gas residue, caught there in the old carpeting, made our eyes prickle and gave us headaches for hours afterwards.

On the floor lay the contorted bodies of a couple of rats and the skeleton of a cat which had died from breathing the gas. We were told that a man had died recently from inhaling it in another cellar nearby.

So, has anything positive come from the terrible suffering of Halabja? Strangely, yes. The revelation of what had happened stirred the conscience of the outside world, and three years later led directly to the imposition by Britain and the US of a no-fly zone over northern Iraq.

This prevented Saddam from attacking the Kurds, and enabled them to flourish independently from the control of Baghdad.

The oil wealth of the 1990s and later has completely transformed the main cities of Kurdistan - Halabja included.

But no-one in the town can forget what happened that day in 1988. Discussing it still reduces entire classes of schoolchildren to tears.

Even now, men and women are developing cancers that may well be linked to the chemical effects of the bombing.

And thousands of people died in the most terrifying way imaginable.

Thank goodness for Lord Bush...eh muq? This can never happen again in Iraq...

Aiken, SC

#285715 Dec 7, 2012
John_Schuylkill County_Pa wrote:
<quoted text>It's better to lose now and not in the playoffs
Got that right...just bought my playoff tickets, two game package was all you could get...if my Falcants do another one and done this year like they did last, it ain't going to fly very well...

Aiken, SC

#285716 Dec 7, 2012
Henry wrote:
<quoted text>
Forget the truth of the bible!
Can't do it henry, at least the ten commandments part, don't you think that is a model way to lead your life?

Oakland, CA

#285717 Dec 7, 2012
ABs wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't do it henry, at least the ten commandments part, don't you think that is a model way to lead your life?
The Ten Commandments appear hastily written and totally improvised, as if by someone under pressure of time. The first three, for example, are merely "the raspy, throat clearings of an admittedly touchy and self-conscious dictator", while most of the others are now redundant with new understanding and man-made, more morally acceptable laws. Since the original tablets have long since disappeared, is it not fitting to write a new set of laws, more thoroughly thought through? Perhaps and including the forbidding of infanticide, child abuse, rape and genocide, while omitting the laws of "worship none but me" and "don't take my name in vain", which seem to serve no purpose in the development of morality what-so-ever.

Marquette, MI

#285718 Dec 7, 2012

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#285719 Dec 7, 2012
News you will not see or hear on CNN and FOX News


CIA Lies About Lies
The Iraq War and the Persistent Myth of ‘Intelligence Failure’

By Jeremy R. Hammond (Contd.)

Scott Ritter responded to the allegations that Iraq was behind the anthrax attacks in The Guardian:“Under the most stringent on-site inspection regime in the history of arms control, Iraq’s biological weapons programmes were dismantled, destroyed or rendered harmless during the course of hundreds of no-notice inspections. The major biological weapons production facility—al Hakum, which was responsible for producing Iraq’s anthrax—was blown up by high explosive charges and all its equipment destroyed…. Thousands of swabs and samples were taken from buildings and soil throughout Iraq.

No evidence of anthrax or any other biological agent was discovered. While it was impossible to verify that all of Iraq’s biological capability had been destroyed, the UN never once found evidence that Iraq had either retained biological weapons or associated production equipment, or was continuing work in the field.” Ritter also pointed out that “Iraq procured the Vollum strain of anthrax from American Type Culture Collection”—which is was provided by the United States while it was supporting Saddam Hussein during the period when he committed his worst atrocities, including the oft-repeated crime of “gassing his own people”(a reference to his use of chemical weapons against the Kurdish town of Halabja in 1988). The strain used in the post-9/11 anthrax mailings, on the other hand, was the Ames strain—which had been produced at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID) at Fort Detrick, Maryland.

It was already well known at the time that Iraq had obtained its precursors for chemical and biological weapons from the United States.“When Iraq engaged in chemical and biological warfare in the 1980s,” author William Blum observed in 1998,“barely a peep of moral outrage could be heard from Washington, as it kept supplying Saddam with the materials he needed to build weapons.” A Senate report from 1994 stated that “The United States provided the Government of Iraq with ‘dual use’ licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological, and missile-system programs, including …

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#285720 Dec 7, 2012
chemical warfare agent precursors; chemical warfare agent production facility plans and technical drawings (provided as pesticide production facility plans); chemical warhead filling equipment; biological warfare related materials; missile fabrication equipment; and, missile-system guidance equipment…. Records available from the supplier for the period from 1985 until the present show that during this time, pathogenic (meaning ‘disease producing’), toxigenic (meaning ‘poisonous’), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce…. These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction.”

The CIA’s final report, popularly known as the Duelfer Report after Charles Duelfer, who replaced David Kay as the head of the ISG, would later admit, after its failure to find WMD in Iraq, that “in 1991 and 1992, Iraq appears to have destroyed its undeclared stocks of BW weapons and probably destroyed remaining holdings of bulk BW agent.”

Returning to Powell’s claims that Iraq had “mobile production facilities used to make biological agents”, this allegation came from a single source, code-named “Curveball”, whom the CIA had never actually interviewed. The CIA had rather relied on German reporting, which had come complete with warnings that he was a drunk and that his claims couldn’t be corroborated. On May 30, 2003, several months after the invasion of Iraq, Bush declared that U.S. forces had “found the weapons of mass destruction”. They had “found biological laboratories”, he lied.“Remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons?”

He answered his own question,“[W]e’ve so far discovered two”, adding that “we’ll find more weapons as time goes on”. He then made a vain attempt to belittle his critics by saying,“But for those who say we haven’t found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they’re wrong. We found them.” Inconveniently for the administration, a British team investigated the trailers and concluded that nothing of the sort had been found. One biological weapons expert told The Observer,“They are not mobile germ warfare laboratories. You could not use them for making biological weapons. They do not even look like them. They are exactly what the Iraqis said they were—facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons.” As it turned out, it was the U.K. that had sold the system, known as an Artillery Meteorological System, or “Amets”, to Iraq in 1987.

The nature of the U.S. case for war was aptly summarized in the minutes of a meeting of senior ministers of the British government on July 23, 2002, the infamous “Downing Street Memo”, which observed:“Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.”

Elkview, WV

#285721 Dec 7, 2012

“One For the Money”

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#285722 Dec 7, 2012
Dept Of Health
The principal nerve agents are sarin (GB), soman (GD), tabun (GA), and VX.
These agents are known to be present in military stockpiles of several nations, including the United States.

Nerve agents are organophosphorus compounds that are similar in mechanism of action to some pesticides (i.e., organophosphate and carbamate insecticides).

Some of the chemical/physical properties of nerve agents include:

Nerve agents are liquids at room temperature; VX has an oily consistency.
Nerve agents are very soluble or miscible in water, and soluble in most organic solvents.
Sarin evaporates from surfaces nearly as fast as water, but the other nerve agents take longer to evaporate. VX evaporates most slowly, at a rate similar to that of motor oil.

The vapor density of nerve agents is at least several-fold greater than air, with VX having the highest vapor density of these agents (about 9-fold greater than air). As a result, following evaporation agents will tend to stay close to the ground.

The compounds are either odorless or have only a slight odor.

How can people be exposed to nerve agents?

The public could be exposed to nerve agents if there is a terrorist attack or an accidental release from a military storage facility.

Marquette, MI

#285725 Dec 8, 2012

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#285726 Dec 8, 2012
News you will not see or hear on CNN and FOX News


CIA Lies About Lies
The Iraq War and the Persistent Myth of ‘Intelligence Failure’

By Jeremy R. Hammond (Contd.)


The narrative that there was an “intelligence failure” leading up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq on March 19, 2003 cannot withstand the slightest scrutiny. The simple fact of the matter is that there was no evidence that Iraq still possessed WMD. The fact of the matter is that top experts in their respective fields within the U.S. intelligence community had correctly assessed that Iraq did not have WMD or ongoing WMD programs. The CIA’s judgments to the contrary were not the result of a “failure” within the intelligence community to correctly analyze and assess the evidence, but of a systematic effort to control information in order to limit “dissent” and stovepipe products to administration officials that would support the government’s official policy of regime change. In other words, the policy was not based on the intelligence, but the CIA’s intelligence products were rather based on the policy.

Understood in these terms, it becomes apparent that far from a “failure”, the government’s disinformation campaign designed to manufacture consent for war was a resounding success. The narrative of an “intelligence failure” attempts to pin responsibility on analysts within the intelligence community rather than on senior administration officials such as President George W. Bush, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and Secretary of State Colin Powell. It attempts to shift the blame for the lies of senior policymakers onto analysts who supposedly didn’t do their jobs correctly. But the truth of the matter is that analysts who did do their job were sidelined and silenced, while assessments from analysts like “Joe” who dishonestly touted the official line were stovepiped to policymakers in “intelligence” products containing judgments completely unsupported by the available evidence.

The narrative of “intelligence failure” attempts to obfuscate the truth of the matter, which is that senior government officials repeatedly lied and willfully deceived the public by making claims unsupported by evidence and by deliberately withholding any information that contradicted their allegations. Seen in this light, it becomes evident that the recently released CIA document is anything but a “mea culpa”. It is, on the contrary, just more of the same.

Jeremy R. Hammond is an independent political analyst and editor of Foreign Policy Journal, an online source for news, critical analysis, and opinion commentary on U.S. foreign policy. He was among the recipients of the 2010 Project Censored Awards for outstanding investigative journalism. foreignpolicyjournal.com

Marquette, MI

#285728 Dec 8, 2012
www.democraticunderground.com › DiscussCached - Similar
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
56 posts - 42 authors - Jan 21, 2009
The Nazi doctor Josef Mengele is responsible for the astonishing ..... on a sect in Chile, one of two operated by a former Nazi, Paul Schaeffer.... It was described alternately as a cult, or as a group of 'harmless eccentrics'.
Ted Gunderson

Republic, MI

#285729 Dec 8, 2012
rider wrote:
Oppressors at the Rhine : Has the UN Commission on Human Rights Lost its Course? A Review of its Mission, Operations, and Structure.
Thank you Madam Chair:
We are here today to question whether or not the United Nations Commission on Human Rights has lost its course.
Too many times I have found myself, bound by conscience, to speak out against the United Nations and the countries that set its policies. Too many times, those policies with which I have been forced to disagree have sadly been set by Washington, DC.
The fact that Argentina and France have both issued subpoenas for the attendance in court of former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger for the U.S. role in the murder and disappearance of their citizens is only a harbinger of things to come.
As a matter of policy, our government seems to have routinely done to the poor and people of color abroad what it has done to the poor and people of color at home.
We know too little about decisions that were made in the name of the United States, decisions that were made for me and for you, yet are now shaken off as merely responses to the exigencies of the Cold War.
Decisions that in some instances led to the overthrow of elected governments, but in all instances to U.S. support of heinous dictatorships with U.S. taxpayer dollars: like in Indonesia, South Korea, Argentina, Chile, Guatemala, Ghana, and Congo/Zaire.
The Pan-African News Agency cites a report on an alleged plan by the U.S. and other European countries to dump 29 million tons of toxic waste in 11 African countries. The materials to be dumped included industrial and chemical wastes, pesticide sludge, radioactive wastes, as well as other hazardous wastes.
I ask you, how can this country dump toxic waste on the poor and consider itself to be a champion of human rights across the globe?
On the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency website is a document uncovered by Professor Thomas J. Nagy which discusses how allied forces could block Iraqi efforts to purify its contaminated drinking water and so lead to the full degradation of the Iraqi water treatment system within six months. Attacking the Iraqi public drinking water supply flagrantly targets civilians and is a violation of the Geneva Convention and of the fundamental laws of civilized nations.
In contravention of even our own laws, U.S. weapons are used around the world in human rights abuses as states suppress their own people or their neighbors. Only a few days ago Dick Cheney stated that Israel should stop using U.S.-built F-16 warplanes against Palestinian targets.
In its conduct of foreign policy, my government has not always taken the high road.
The actions launched against Henry Kissinger suggest that other countries will no longer tolerate the failure of the United States to consider human rights in its actions abroad.
But human rights is not only about foreign policy. Human rights is about domestic policy, too.
When we in this country talk about human rights, those words are usually intoned with an outward vision. We speak of human rights around the world. However, today, for just a few moments, I want to talk about human rights at home.
Nope. The war is NOT over!!!

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