9/11: Atheists and Islamists vs. Christianity

[Joe DeCaro]

Porkpie Hat wrote:

First off, I already stated I don't agree with what this group is doing. I also don't feel the display of this cross will have any effect on myself or any other atheist as to affect their, or my, ability to disbelieve in a higher being ...

Here are the claims of the effects of the cross by some of your fellow atheists:

"The cross — which was later added to the World Trade Center Memorial — can adversely affects atheists who see it on display, resulting in everything from headaches to mental anguish, at least according to David Silverman, president of American Atheists."

The actual list of medical maladies claimed by Silverman is much longer.

[Social ponzi security]

Since i believe government should be small. I believe government are not allow to regulate sex, just i don't agree government regulation on economy. Right Christian are big government on social issue.

How ever big government on social issue, will lead to more big government in other areas. For example: Christian want to criminalize all form of marriage, except monogamy. Since marriage is economic and social issues, regulation on marriage will create unintended consequence on economy and social(same principle on economy). Economically Struggle single mom are cause by government regulation over marriage. To be honest, marriage deregulation can become free market safety net for single mom.

[Porkpie Hat]

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>Here are the claims of the effects of the cross by some of your fellow atheists:

"The cross — which was later added to the World Trade Center Memorial — can adversely affects atheists who see it on display, resulting in everything from headaches to mental anguish, at least according to David Silverman, president of American Atheists."

The actual list of medical maladies claimed by Silverman is much longer.

And I think they're being absolutely ridiculous if that's what they claim.

But let's clarify, there is no homogenous "atheist" organization.

Atheism is simply the absence of a belief in God.

There are no "atheist" countries where atheists immigrated from to attack American Christian values.

Atheism is a part of your culture and whether you agree or not, referring to these idiots as a cultural jihad is fallacious at best.

[Joe DeCaro]

Porkpie Hat wrote:

But let's clarify, there is no homogenous "atheist" organization.
Atheism is simply the absence of a belief in God ...

... but American Atheists DO believe in lawsuits to impose their disbelief on others.

Even if their claims of mental anxiety and anguish are ridiculous, it doesn't prevent them from suing.

[Porkpie Hat]

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
... but American Atheists DO believe in lawsuits to impose their disbelief on others.
Even if their claims of mental anxiety and anguish are ridiculous, it doesn't prevent them from suing.

Some do Joe, and some Christians also persue lawsuits to have creationist beliefs inserted into schools and have evolution removed. Some Christians become policy makers within school districts and impose their religious beliefs on the entire district.

Is that also a cultural jihad against atheists and all others that don't follow their beliefs?

The great thing about our court systems is they have a very good record of dismissing ridiculous claims. If what you say is accurate, I have no doubt that will be the case here as well.

[Joe DeCaro]

Porkpie Hat wrote:

<quoted text>Some do Joe, and some Christians also persue lawsuits to have creationist beliefs inserted into schools and have evolution removed ...

Actually these Christians are only trying to add Intelligent Design to the curriculem while not removing evolution, micro-evolution, Darwinism, neo-Darwinism or anything else from it.

When I briefly taught Earth Science in NYC, I had four categories on the board explaining the origin of life -- evolution, creationism, theistic evolution and extraterrestrial -- with all their pros and cons; that way I let the class decide what they wanted to accept, or not.

[Porkpie Hat]

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually these Christians are only trying to add Intelligent Design to the curriculem while not removing evolution, micro-evolution, Darwinism, neo-Darwinism or anything else from it.
When I briefly taught Earth Science in NYC, I had four categories on the board explaining the origin of life -- evolution, creationism, theistic evolution and extraterrestrial -- with all their pros and cons; that way I let the class decide what they wanted to accept, or not.

Regardless, one could easliy use the same argument that including a non-science topic concerning the belief systems of Christians as being a cultural jihad using your standard.

The reality is that intelligent design has no place in a science classroom and THAT'S where I'd draw the line regarding my own children.

[LBer]

Social ponzi security wrote:

<quoted text>
Christian is middle eastern culture. Modern west mind come from Greek culture. The savage western dark middle age are come from Christian culture.
Person like John Locke, Adam Smith, Galileo got opposition from church.

The culture of the 'Christian' West, has very few links to the Middle East anymore. Derivation, and that's about it. And Israel, though not Christian, is "Western" in culture.

The Greek Christian Orthodox is one of the first Christian churches, and developed during the Byzantine Empire.

Oh, check out the "300". GREAT movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_%28film%29

[LBer]

There is no "fact" as a layman knows it, in science. Just that which has massive amounts of testable data to back it up, to the point is is considered a scientific 'truth'(or fact...semantics).

When evidence is presented to refute a scientific 'fact', an attempt is made to replicate/confirm by other scientists. If it is replicable, then that 'fact' is modified or totally invalidated.

This is not looked upon with horror by scientists, but with great interest.

The same can not be said about religious views/theories. These are based upon faith, and no replicable tests are offered. There is no method to refute these religious views - no possible way to refute them.

That is why they should not be presented within a science class.

Plus, the old issue of which religious theory you present. Evolution for the most part is pretty consistent around the world, regardless of culture, among scientists. And they welcome argument and refutation of the particulars ( and their arguments gets quite lively!).

I don't consider this a weakness of religion, because the two are 'apples and oranges'. Faith does not need science to validate it.

[emperorjohn]

Joe DeCaro wrote:

<quoted text>
What unity?
You can't even tell islam apart from Christianity!
See below.
<quoted text>
Even Dawkins considers Christianity as the lesser of two evils when compared with islam.

I consider Christianity the lesser of two evils as well.

[Social ponzi security]

Lesser of 2 evil? Islam is dictator, Christian is commie. I can't pick side between dictator and commie. Both of them endorse big government.

Let say i join the Christian league and defeat Islam. At the end, i help Christian create their ideal socialist world.

[jesus is]

Devon Moore wrote:

The cross of xtianity is a torture/murder device. A bunch of crispy christians wear these little trinkets of death around their necks and kneel in front of one a couple times a week. Not only have the christians corrupted the word of Jesus (A.S.) and the Injeel, they are obviously part of a death cult that believes in torture as a pinnacle of social progress

AND HOW DID THEY CORRUPT IT, LIAR?
Who collected every single Bible and manuscript in the world, rewrote the entire thing to make their additions fit, then delivered them back to the owner without being noticed?

Why didn't Allah stop them? Why didn't Allah stop Christianity before it started?

[Social ponzi security]

jesus is wrote:

<quoted text>
AND HOW DID THEY CORRUPT IT, LIAR?
Who collected every single Bible and manuscript in the world, rewrote the entire thing to make their additions fit, then delivered them back to the owner without being noticed?
Why didn't Allah stop them? Why didn't Allah stop Christianity before it started?

Because Allah want to make puzzle! Allah make game, and Allah want to mislead.

quran 42:44

And he whom Allah sends astray - for him there is no protector beyond Him. And you will see the wrongdoers, when they see the punishment, saying, "Is there for return any way?"

quran 42:46

And there will not be for them any allies to aid them other than Allah . And whoever Allah sends astray - for him there is no way.

[Joe DeCaro]

Porkpie Hat wrote:

<quoted text>Regardless, one could easliy use the same argument that including a non-science topic concerning the belief systems of Christians ...

IMO, ID is more than just a belief system, and some of the most accepted theories are really unprovable hypotheses because they can't be demonstrated in a lab, i.e., string theory, big bang, and so on.

In both science and politics, I think the "marketplace of ideas" is a good guide in these matters.

[Social ponzi security]

Christian, Muslim, socialist liberal and libertarian naturally against each other. Because each people want to impose their standard to others.

Muslim see all believe out side their system is fake.

Conservative Christian see all believe out side their system is fake. Conservative Christian hate liberal and libertarian for their immoral. Conservative Christian see liberal Christian as fake Christian. Christian in general hate libertarian, because libertarian worship the free market.

Liberal see Conservative Christian and Muslim as big government in social live. Liberal see libertarian as materialist.

libertarian don't have any problem with anyone, as long they don't endorse big government ideology. But libertarian don't like Christian and liberal, because both of the are charitable with other people money. And libertarian see conservative Christian as fake conservative, cause conservative Christian are charitable with other people money. And conservative Christian are just white version of Muslim.