Adopt Zakat, Not Hudud

Adopt Zakat, Not Hudud

There are 399 comments on the Lim Kit Siang story from Oct 9, 2011, titled Adopt Zakat, Not Hudud. In it, Lim Kit Siang reports that:

Malay politicians fall all over themselves in advocating hudud, the Islamic penal laws.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Lim Kit Siang.

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DontCopyMyNickPl ease

UK

#393 Dec 16, 2011
@Pawn,

I'm gonna include all the answers and exclude quotes here since I want to enjoy my weekends.^_^

We are discussing about the conflicting facts in the report or non-Malays dissatisfaction towards Malay privileges and the Constitution? Suddenly you come up with these Ketuanan Melayu and 7% Discount. Make up your mind. Can we go on this one by one.

(I'm not regarded as Malay, and to me the term Ketuanan Melayu is not Islamic at all -discrimination to other Muslims in the country. So, we can discuss that later)

Article 160 (“Interpretation”) of the Federal Constitution defines the term “Malay” in the following manner:
“Malay” means a person who professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language, conforms to Malay custom and is of Malaysian/Singaporean origin*.

Being a Muslim is an integral part of being a Malay. But, being a Malay is not a condition to be a Muslim. Which confirms my argument in previous post:

1. Not all Muslims can be identified as Malay
2. One need to fulfill all the requirement under the Constitution to be regarded as Malay.

Though Malay is Bumiputra, not all Bumiputras are Malays. Other Bumiputras include native indigenous people such as Iban, Dayak, Kadazan, Melanau, Bajau, etc.

This is clearly not in line with Article 11(1)– freedom of religion. But under Islamic Law, a Muslim is FORBIDDEN to convert to another religion. A Malay muslim apostate is ceased to be considered as Malay (and stripped of all privileges) according to the constitution.

The position of Islam as “the religion of the Federation” as stated in Article 3(1) means that Islam is a national or constitutional ideology.

For non-Muslims, their position is protected by Article 3(1) which allows other religions to be practiced in “peace and harmony” in the country. They are also protected by Article 11(1)- the right to religious freedom. In Article 12(2), the state is not prevented from assisting other religions.
The federal and state budgets fund Muslim places of worship because Islam is considered the religion of the federation. Funding for non-Muslim places of worship comes from a special allocation within the prime minister's department or state governments. State governments, however, have exclusive authority over allocation of land and the construction of all places of worship and land allocation for all cemeteries.

Though NEP (special privileges for bumiputras) formulated in 1970 in the aftermath of 1969 Riot, was meant to reduce the economic gap between well-off non-Bumis (who enjoyed privileges during colonial eras) and Bumis, this has been subjected to abuse. It benefited mostly the Malay elite upper-class group, thus creating big income gap within Bumis themselves. There are however successful program such as Felda but more priorities should be given to the natives in Sabah and Sarawak.

There are many notable, successful non-Malays who made it big outside Malaysia. However, there are also many successful professional Malays overseas (doctors, scientists, engineers, etc) who may not involve in the glitzy and glamorous world, but have achieved something that Malaysia take pride in for e.g. Wan Nazri Wan Aria, 31, an engineer with a German company, SL Rasch, is responsible for coming up with the design of the giant clock tower, Mecca Royal Hotel Clock Tower or the Abraj Al-Bait which faces the Masjidil Haram or Grand Mosque. It is 3 times bigger than Big Ben and costed more than USD 3 billion.

So, see you next week. Have a nice and enjoyable weekend.
Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#395 Dec 17, 2011
DontCopyMyNickPlease wrote:
@Pawn,
I'm gonna include all the answers and exclude quotes here since I want to enjoy my weekends.^_^
We are discussing about the conflicting facts in the report or non-Malays dissatisfaction towards Malay privileges and the Constitution? Suddenly you come up with these Ketuanan Melayu and 7% Discount. Make up your mind. Can we go on this one by one.
Can you tell me how ketuanan melayu (Malay Supremacy) and Malay-only discount has nothing to do with dissatisfaction towards Malay priviledges?

I see you take cheap ways to respond - simply put words here for visibility instead of dealing with real issues. And keep in mind that some of my posts here are not necessarily in response to you, but for general message of racial discrimination happening in Malaysia.
Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#396 Dec 17, 2011
DontCopyMyNickPlease wrote:
(I'm not regarded as Malay, and to me the term Ketuanan Melayu is not Islamic at all -discrimination to other Muslims in the country. So, we can discuss that later)
Are you telling me that you only worry about Malay "discrimination to other Muslims in the country", but then against me when it comes to Malay discrimination against non-muslims?(and there are only very tiny percentage of non-Malay muslims in Malaysia)

Very revealing isn't it - about your mentality?
Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#397 Dec 17, 2011
But don't bother, I have no interest in further discussion because of the pattern of your responses in so many posts, I find it a waste of time, (perhaps mutually). If I do post here, don't assume I'm reponding to you, but I may quit this thread because as I mentioned, its title no longer fits my views. I may start a thread with another title about Malaysia and its Muslims, go defend Islam there...
Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#399 Dec 17, 2011
for some reason my long reply #394 about your "dummy wikipedia" remark was removed by Topix.

Basically it says your brushing away of Wikipedia use is not very wise. Although wikipedia can contain misleading info, and if you're classroom student your teacher may have reasons to understimate your ability to work through information by using various verification tools and researches (and believe me, your teacher my start her research from wiki).

I verified the Constitution of Malaysia text with various sources available on the internet, I don't see why you "did not?" do that before rushing to claim "hey, its from wiki and only dummies use it"? I provided some other links to the same Constitution text (law firms, books, etc) that might have caused Topix rejection of post 354, but you can search it yourself.

Actually the wiki page of the Malaysia Constitution is very well organized and provides easier way to navigate to different Articles by number than other sites that I came across.

I warned my sons about using wiki myself, but if I told them to avoid wiki completely I'd be taking very valuable research tool from them - wiki provides vast resources helpful to jumpstart your research and its value far outweighs its possible misleading contents which you can generally work through.

I found it strange that you have included wikipedia link and some blog-pages when replying to me, but it is only no-no when I use them, why the different standards?
DontCopyMyNickPl ease

UK

#400 Dec 17, 2011
Pawn-King-Nine wrote:
<quoted text>
.... And keep in mind that some of my posts here are not necessarily in response to you, but for general message of racial discrimination happening in Malaysia.
Me too...^_^
Pawn-King-Nine wrote:
But don't bother, I have no interest in further discussion because of the pattern of your responses in so many posts, I find it a waste of time,(perhaps mutually). If I do post here, don't assume I'm reponding to you, but I may quit this thread because as I mentioned, its title no longer fits my views. I may start a thread with another title about Malaysia and its Muslims, go defend Islam there...
This is the (one, two, three, four… maybe, I’ve lost count) fourth time you said you want to quit. So, I just, okay, cool, whatever.

You’re much older than me (you know e tanda, you don’t know Simple Plan, and you think spanking is cool), that is why I tried to be as polite as possible in this thread and appreciate some valuable info I gathered here.

I pick who I want to argue with, and I end it as I wish. But if you think you can no longer handle my intrusion here, you can create another thread. As simple as that. I won’t bother you there.

You are a US citizen now. Do your country good by defending US in many of anti US threads here. That’s a better option.
DontCopyMyNickPl ease

UK

#401 Dec 17, 2011
Pawn-King-Nine wrote:
for some reason my long reply #394 about your "dummy wikipedia" remark was removed by Topix.
Basically it says your brushing away of Wikipedia use is not very wise. Although wikipedia can contain misleading info, and if you're classroom student your teacher may have reasons to understimate your ability to work through information by using various verification tools and researches (and believe me, your teacher my start her research from wiki).
I verified the Constitution of Malaysia text with various sources available on the internet, I don't see why you "did not?" do that before rushing to claim "hey, its from wiki and only dummies use it"? I provided some other links to the same Constitution text (law firms, books, etc) that might have caused Topix rejection of post 354, but you can search it yourself.
Actually the wiki page of the Malaysia Constitution is very well organized and provides easier way to navigate to different Articles by number than other sites that I came across.
I warned my sons about using wiki myself, but if I told them to avoid wiki completely I'd be taking very valuable research tool from them - wiki provides vast resources helpful to jumpstart your research and its value far outweighs its possible misleading contents which you can generally work through.
I found it strange that you have included wikipedia link and some blog-pages when replying to me, but it is only no-no when I use them, why the different standards?
Funny. I can still see it in page 19, bottom post.

Our professor gave us a totally different advice on how to use wikipedia. We were encouraged to make contribution based on our research not only from the web but also the library and other public reports/source of info. This will help us, particularly student, to develop and improve our understanding of a certain subject based on reliable sources first and foremost and we compare that to others’ views in wikipedia. I agree it can be used as a starting point that give us students numerous citable sources. But it is not wise to treat it as a point of reference for any argument or study due to its ‘unstable’ and ‘vandalism’ prone nature. Directly quoting the site might not be appropriate.

I have checked and haven’t found any wikipedia quotes from me. You can help double check.. lol. A quote from one blog also included the main source which is from Malaysian newspaper, China Press, complete with year it was published.

Happy holiday Uncle Pawn.^_^
Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#402 Dec 17, 2011
DontCopyMyNickPlease wrote:
Funny. I can still see it in page 19, bottom post.
was that the reply from me?
Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#403 Dec 17, 2011
DontCopyMyNickPlease wrote:
and you think spanking is cool
that only apply to you, who finished college and fail middle-school math, lol!
Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#404 Dec 17, 2011
DontCopyMyNickPlease wrote:
This is the (one, two, three, four… maybe, I’ve lost count) fourth time you said you want to quit.
if you don't keep posting back, I wouldn't have to come back to correct you.
North Face Outlet

Fremont, CA

#405 Dec 28, 2011
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Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#406 Jan 1, 2012
bmz

San Diego, CA

#407 Jan 2, 2012
Pawn-King-Nine wrote:
Do you part and screw the next Malay - Muslim you see.
Pawn-King-Nine

Concord, CA

#409 Jan 2, 2012
bmz wrote:
Do you part and screw the next Malay - Muslim you see.
I can't, I love their curry and nasi lemak so much that I'd probably contribute to their businesses.... I'm sold out.

But happy new year.
bmz

San Diego, CA

#410 Jan 3, 2012
Pawn-King-Nine wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't, I love their curry and nasi lemak so much that I'd probably contribute to their businesses.... I'm sold out.
But happy new year.
you don't have to sell yourself......screw them and turn them into rejects of islam. and happy new year to you too. f. islam.
Pawn-King-Nine

San Francisco, CA

#411 Jan 3, 2012
bmz wrote:
you don't have to sell yourself......
but it is impossible for my soul to resist...

http://www.google.com/search...

Since: Apr 12

Danville, CA

#413 Jul 4, 2013
DontCopyMyNickPlease wrote:
Funny.
...
Happy holiday Uncle Pawn.^_^
someone just copied your signature smile... just want alert you ...

^_^

“amende lon naik hantu yer”

Since: Oct 12

jom kita naik hantu,malaysia

#415 Jun 18, 2014
Datuk Seri Najib Razak must heed and stick to former prime minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad's stand that Malaysian Muslims are not ready for the implementation of hudud, said the DAP.

Party secretary-general Lim Guan Eng said the prime minister should not flip-flop on the matter and instead take note of the former prime minister's position.

"Mahathir is correct in maintaining his stand that it will not be fair to have different penalties between Muslims and non-Muslims for the same offence.

"This policy was adopted by Mahathir when he was the prime minister from 1981 until 2003 and he had refused to even meet PAS leaders to discuss the issue.

"However Barisan Nasional under Najib has publicly lauded proposals made to implement the hudud law and is willing to meet PAS to discuss this," Lim (pic, top left) said in a statement today.

Yesterday, Bernama quoted Mahathir as saying that Muslims in this country are not ready for the Islamic penal code to be implemented because those who want to enforce it "would not prioritise justice which is emphasised in Islam but would do it their own way".

Lim, who is Bagan MP, reiterated that his party will consistently oppose any plan to implement Islamic criminal law, as it is against the Federal Constitution.

He also said the Pakatan Rakyat coalition comprising DAP, PKR and PAS never included the implementation of Islamic law in its election manifestos.

Lim said in PR, it would require all three parties to consent to implement or change any policy.

"PR’s position regarding hudud has not changed because the DAP’s position in opposing it has not changed. PAS has conceded that implementing hudud law is PAS policy and not PR policy," he said.

Lim again challenged BN's Chinese component party MCA to take up its objections to hudud with Umno and to address Najib and Putrajaya's change in position, policy and principles on this issue.

"MCA president Datuk Seri Liong Tiong Lai should not think that signing anti-hudud law agreements with pro-BN Chinese organisations and BN's control of the mainstream media can cover up the lies, hypocrisy and double standards of MCA.

"The internet is abuzz with questions asking why Liow dare not take Najib to task for this flip-flop and whether MCA accepts the new BN government’s position on hudud adopted by Najib," Lim said.

Yesterday, Lim took Liow to task for not criticising Umno assemblymen in Kelantan and International Trade and Industry Minister Datuk Seri Mustapa Mohamad for supporting the implementation of the hudud law, while the DAP has stood up to both PAS and Umno.

Lim reminded Liow that the change in position by Najib's government was welcomed by the PAS Kelantan government.

"It is secondary whether Najib had consulted Liow on this change in position.

"The issue here is whether Liow will stick his neck out and demand that Najib revert back to the policy that Malaysian Muslims are not read for hudud," he said.– April 26, 2014.

“amende lon naik hantu yer”

Since: Oct 12

jom kita naik hantu,malaysia

#416 Jun 18, 2014
gue salah copas hahaahahahaha

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