The Gay Shall Inherit the Church?

Homosexuality is having a significant impact on the course of Christianity in America. Even those who object to homosexuality are being affected because, more and more, Christianity is almost being defined by one's stance on gay rights. Especially interesting is the manner in which anti-gay Christians defend themselves because it reveals how little of Christianity is in their position.

[Rick in Kansas]

I also recommend reading the article sourced by this one. It was written back in 2004, but it is still very much relevant today:
http://www.therevealer.org/archives/timely_00...

[Jim]

Actually we won't inherit the Church. It was ours to begin with. The Gospel of John repeatedly talks about the "disciple Jesus loved" and describes intimacy between them and that the others are jealous. At the end of the book it's author claims to be that disciple. Some scholars think it was Andrew, others that it was Lazarus. The church just avoids the passages and expects it's members not to read or study the book. Sounds crazy but it's worked fairly well.

Biblical Historian John Boswell discovered same-sex union ceremonies in the Vatican and documents their usage for 1200 years before the church made heterosexual marriage a sacrament. The Church had a lot of trouble with blessing civil marriages because there was no mention or expectation of love and women were treated as chatel property. This does not harmonize with Christian principals. Remember, Christian marriage is only 500 years old. Before that you could ask a priest to bless a married couple.

[Umninimuzi]

Good research there, Jim. I wanted to marry John Boswell when he first came out with 'Christianity, Sical Tolerance and Homosexuality.' What a cutie. Such a crying shame that we had to lose him so young!

[Umninimuzi]

Ugh! typos ... of course it should have been 'Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality.'

[Queering the Church]

Jim is right - we've been there all along. Scripture shows more queer values than family values, for many centuries the church blessed same sex unions, and had a long list of recognized gay saints and bishops.(For today, Nov 1st, have a look at "All (Gay) Saints Day".)
The modern Catholic Church has a heavily gay clergy and a deeply ingrained homoerotic culture. We don't need to inherit the church - just the honesty from the church to recognise that we're there, and always have been.
(queeringthechurch.wordpress.com )

[Rev Ray T]

One phrase missing in this article,“colossal ignorance.” They do not even know that their church was a political tool from the
get-go. It was established by the emperor Constantine in the fourth century because he saw a collection of proto-orthodox churches, a minority with in the Jesus movement, had created the perfect tool for mind control. They had created the concept of sin and the devil to scare the hell INTO people and keep them in line. Uniting these churches and destroying all free thinkers in the Jesus movement gave him control over the masses.

Of course any thinking Christian, who finds these historical facts in opposition to church propaganda leaves the church

[OutVoice]

But what if we do not want the church??? I see the religionists have been playing judge again here. Tsk Tsk.

[Jeffrey]

Gotta agree with OutVoice. I don't WANT it!

[Frank]

The Bible condemns all homosexual acts. That pretty much ends any logical discussion.

[THE OLD BORNGAY]

Frank wrote:

The Bible condemns all homosexual acts. That pretty much ends any logical discussion.

The bible is NOT God...
God never made any such condemnation nor did HE make the commandment 'THOU SHALT NOT BE GAY",,, man did on HIS behalf.(Presumptious)
That pretty much ends any discussion.

[THE OLD BORNGAY]

If ya believe & are a good person, you will inherit the Kingdom of God no matter WHO OR WHAT YOU ARE.,,, which offers more than ANY church.
God does not discriminate.. Man does.

[Warning1]

THE OLD BORNGAY wrote:

If ya believe & are a good person, you will inherit the Kingdom of God no matter WHO OR WHAT YOU ARE.,,, which offers more than ANY church.
God does not discriminate.. Man does.

Homosexuals will burn in hell for eternity and gnash their teeth and wail forever unless they repent their perverse and deviant ways.

You have been warned!!!

[OldSwiftBoater]

Frank wrote:

The Bible condemns all homosexual acts. That pretty much ends any logical discussion.

NO, it doesn't douche bag! How about a little "Judge not" Now, that pretty much ends any logical discussion! LOL

[OldSwiftBoater]

Warning1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Homosexuals will burn in hell for eternity and gnash their teeth and wail forever unless they repent their perverse and deviant ways.
You have been warned!!!

STFU! MORON! How are things in Pekin? Time to get back on that thorazine drip!Stat! Any word on your release date yet? YOU are the one who's going to be doing the burning!

[Cpetr13]

Oh, imagine my terror.
Guess I'll see what's in the fridge...

Warning1 wrote:

<quoted text>
Homosexuals will burn in hell for eternity and gnash their teeth and wail forever unless they repent their perverse and deviant ways.
You have been warned!!!

[THE OLD BORNGAY]

OldSwiftBoater wrote:

<quoted text>
STFU! MORON! How are things in Pekin? Time to get back on that thorazine drip!Stat! Any word on your release date yet? YOU are the one who's going to be doing the burning!

this isn't pekin,,, it the other idiot from the other thread.. He follows me around.. Needs the attention..

[DustyShadow]

"As to the second, many Christians simply don't understand the role politics plays in all human institutions, churches included. Because of how important politics are, they can have a serious impact on what churches do and what direction they take, even though people on the inside imagine that the direction taken is simply the natural, necessary product of their theology. Most people just can't recognize contingent, culturally- and politically-based views for what they are, so they also can't recognize when institutions like their church are being as political as it is being religious."

I absolutely agree with this statement from the article. I also think that the more political the church, the more likely they are to be open to gays and "gay marriage."

A strict non-political view of the Biblical position on marriage is that it is a man and a woman, not two men, not two women. Furthermore, any sex outside marriage is fornication and strictly forbidden and punishable.

Politics and political correctness dictate that churches say that homosexual activity is not a sin, not the Bible itself.

[DustyShadow]

Jim wrote:

Actually we won't inherit the Church. It was ours to begin with. The Gospel of John repeatedly talks about the "disciple Jesus loved" and describes intimacy between them and that the others are jealous. At the end of the book it's author claims to be that disciple. Some scholars think it was Andrew, others that it was Lazarus. The church just avoids the passages and expects it's members not to read or study the book. Sounds crazy but it's worked fairly well.
Biblical Historian John Boswell discovered same-sex union ceremonies in the Vatican and documents their usage for 1200 years before the church made heterosexual marriage a sacrament. The Church had a lot of trouble with blessing civil marriages because there was no mention or expectation of love and women were treated as chatel property. This does not harmonize with Christian principals. Remember, Christian marriage is only 500 years old. Before that you could ask a priest to bless a married couple.

You might consider reading Matthew 19, where Jesus establishes marriage as the union of a man and a woman. I don't know where you got this idea that Christian marriage is only 500 years old.

[Rick in Kansas]

DustyShadow wrote:

"As to the second, many Christians simply don't understand the role politics plays in all human institutions, churches included. Because of how important politics are, they can have a serious impact on what churches do and what direction they take, even though people on the inside imagine that the direction taken is simply the natural, necessary product of their theology. Most people just can't recognize contingent, culturally- and politically-based views for what they are, so they also can't recognize when institutions like their church are being as political as it is being religious."
I absolutely agree with this statement from the article. I also think that the more political the church, the more likely they are to be open to gays and "gay marriage."
A strict non-political view of the Biblical position on marriage is that it is a man and a woman, not two men, not two women. Furthermore, any sex outside marriage is fornication and strictly forbidden and punishable.
Politics and political correctness dictate that churches say that homosexual activity is not a sin, not the Bible itself.

It isn't often that you hear someone agree with a statement and then go into such complete denial about its implications. It was written about you, not for you. You more than others need to realize that what you claim to be a faith based position has been developed from your cultural, political and ideological assumptions to which your religious beliefs have been added as an afterthought than the other way around...

[flyboy]

DustyShadow wrote:

<quoted text>
You might consider reading Matthew 19, where Jesus establishes marriage as the union of a man and a woman. I don't know where you got this idea that Christian marriage is only 500 years old.

For starters, polygamy is also in the Bible, and same-sex marriages/unions also took place in history. Anyway, marriage is NOT a religious union. Religion came into the marriage game late. Marriage was not "created" by any God. You need to educate yourself on the history of marriage, instead of being predictable, and blindly believing what the Bible says, and not having any knowledge or mind of your own.