California May Start Tracking HIV Patients by Name

Opposition has lifted to legislation that would allow California health authorities to track HIV patients by name, effectively ending a years-long debate over privacy concerns and paving the way for the bill's ... Full Story
Bob Easterday

San Jose, CA

#22 Jan 24, 2006
I am forever amazed at one idea that people always seem to trot out when it comes to privacy.
"The inocent have nothing to hide". This sentiment is patently absurd. By all legal measures, I live firmly in the "innocent" column, yet I declare that I have MUCH to hide.

I don't choose for the world to know when I'm late on a bill payment. I don't choose for the world to know what clubs I belong to. I don't choose for the world to know what prescriptions I take, or what diseases I may or may not have contracted. My buying habits, entertainment proclivities, and sexual preferences reside proudly on the list of things I choose to protect.

Moreover, the operative term here is "choose". The proper thing to debate is not whether someone has something to hide. The proper debate concerns who has the right to choose how personal information gets used and disseminated.

Contrary to popular belief, the constitution does not bestow a "right" to privacy. I insist on it nonetheless. Yes, I have MUCH to hide and if you have any class whatsoever, so do you.

Since: Dec 05

Palo Alto, CA

#23 Jan 24, 2006
Second Thoughts wrote:
<quoted text>

In no way, it was just commenting on a virus' ability to modify and change itself to accommodate its enviornment. The location of "injection" of this virus dictates that it must change to accommodate its enviornment if it is to survive and proliferate. You should know this.
Actually in the case of a blood-born retrovirus such as HIV, it does not have to modify depending on the "location of injection". HIV does not get transmitted through the dermal barrier, it gets transmitted through open-sores, mucous membranes and obviously blood transfusions. There are two species of HIV that can infect humans, HIV-1 and HIV-2, however HIV-2 is largely isolated to Africa and HIV-1 has been around in humans since as early as the 1930's.
SO SICKENED

United States

#24 Jan 24, 2006
[ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? You are the evil one.
How DARE you say such a ludicrous thing about HIV.
I am sickened and disgusted. You're a pig.]

[The innocent have nothing to hide. Those who do good have nothing to fear from the government, but those who do evil.

If they want the government to fork out millions of dollars to invest in research to find a cure for a disease they wouldn't have got had they kept their pants zipped up, then they need to fulfill the criteria that the government sets forth. They were free to not give out the names if they were willing to have the government funding to stop...it was their choice.]
Splinter

Seattle, WA

#25 Jan 24, 2006
>>If you remember it started out in the gay community.<<

No, you dolt, it started as a heterosexual disease in Africa and was then transmitted to the gay community in America and Europe. It STILL is primarily a heterosexual disease in most of the world and in the parts of the world where people are still dying by the tens of thousands.

You so-called "chistians" are nothing of the sort. You are members of a bible worshipping cult of narrowminded bigots that spend so much time judging others, you can't see the giant log of sin jammed in your own prissy selfrighteous eye.

Maybe you should spend a little less time focusing on the Levitical laws and the rantings of Paul in his letters to the Romans and more time focusing on what Christ had to say in the book of Matthew. Remember the "greatest commandment" and what is says directly after He explains what they are?

Sorry for the anger, but this type of selfrighteous behavior is exactly what is giving most good Christians a bad name. It is also KILLING OUR CHILDREN that are shamed into suicide because they are foolish enough to actally believe what you have to say.
Second Thoughts wrote:
<quoted text>

If you remember it started out in the gay community. Then it got in the blood supply unnoticed and was given to unsuspecting medical patients needing transfusions. Then the virus modified to pass into the heterosexual population. So, don't give me this it's not a gay thing garbage. But, that's not even the issue I was pointing out. I was talking about anyone who couldn't keep their pants zipped up...gay and non-gay alike.

Unfortunately, the America that I grew up in became the America it is today. Had there been a little more restraint, we wouldn't be reaping all the bad blood (forgive the pun) that we've sown.

It may be ok for someone your child is dating to give your child AIDS, because you don't know they're infected, but it's not ok for me and mine. If you want to play Russian Roulette with your child's life, that's up to you, but as for me, I love my children and if I can I'll protect my children any way that I can.
Humble

United States

#26 Jan 24, 2006
Good question Bob! But wait a minute

<Contrary to popular belief, the constitution does not bestow a "right" to privacy. I insist on it nonetheless. Yes, I have MUCH to hide and if you have any class whatsoever, so do you.>

Your post made me think about our "right" to privacy so I did some checking.(your post is one a the few intellegent ones here and I agree with your veiwpoint) I have been taught all my life that as a US citizen I had the "right" to my privacy. Well, we do, but the constitution and the bill of rights explains it as, the right NOT to have the government pry into our privite lives without probable cause ("a reasonable belief that a crime has been committed"). "The Constitution isn't about what people can do; it's about what government can do."
Check out this link
http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/PrivacyRi...

Do not forget about the 4th amendment and the 9th and 10th amendment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment...

I know this is off track a bit from the right to privacy in your medical records but I found it interesting given the current discussion in Washington.
Humble

United States

#27 Jan 24, 2006
that's "Intelligent " haha
stand for goodness

Yucca Valley, CA

#28 Jan 25, 2006
Chayia wrote:
<quoted text>

�Christians� have done more harm to the world than any other group in world history. More wars, genocides, and murders in the name of the Christianity than any other group since the beginning of the religion. It�s a disease people. It ceased along time ago to be a homosexual problem because a Christian � President Reagan thought it might help eliminate the gay issue and ignored the advice of the Surgeon General of the United States. I have been with my partner for 12 years. We have been faithful to one another and raised a child together. We have 5 grandchildren that thrive. You don�t have a corner on life, love, and family. Nor are you a true follower of Jesus Christ.
you really dont know a thing about God
FIRST OF ALL, TO CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN MEANS TO BE CHRISTLIKE.NO MURDERER WILL ENTER HEAVEN ACCORDING TO MY BIBLE. THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY KILL OR HATE IN THE NAME OF GOD ARENT CHRISTIANS.CHRIST SAID YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. HE CALLED THEM WOLVES IN SHEEP CLOTHING.FALSE PROPHETS.AND GOD SETS THE EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE, NOT MAN. YOU CAN SAY YOU BELIEVE IN GOD ALL YOU WANT BUT THATS A LIE BECAUSE JESUS SAID IF YOU BELIEVED IN HIM YOU WOULD LOVE HIM AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. THE BIBLE SAYS TO HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP WITH THE UNFRUITFUL WORKS OF DARKNESS BUT RATHER REPROVE THEM.SPEAKING OUT AGAINST A SICK LIFESTYLE CALLED HOMOSEXUALITY IS MY DUTY TO GOD NOT MAN.GODS THE ONLY MANMADE LAWS I AGREE WITH ARE THE ONES THAT DONT GO AGAINST GODS WORD.THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS TO WITHDRAW YOURSELF FROM ANYONE WHO WALKS DISORDERLY. HOMOSEXUALS ARE CURSED. THATS WHY THE AVERAGE AGE FOR A HOMOSEXUAL MAN IS 41 YEARS OF AGE AND A WOMAN 46.NEVER EVER EVER WILL I ACCEPT SOMETHING THAT GOD SAYS HE HATES AS NORMAL.ITS SICK,ITS SATANIC AND NOONE IS BORN GAY.ITS A CHOICE IF ONE WAS BORN GAY, WOULDN'T THEY HAVE FOUND A DNA GENE? ITS THE HOMOSEXUALS,PERVERTS,MURDERERS ,DRUNKARDS, AMONG OTHERS WHO RUINED THIS COUNTRY AND WORLD, NOT US REAL CHRISTIANS. TO HATE AN ACT OF SATAN IS BEING JUDGMENTAL, ITS BIBLE.WITH YOUR GAY PRIDE THATS WHATS RUINING AMERICA.BSICALLY YOU ARE SAYING"YES IM GAY GOD HATES IT BUT I DONT CARE" WOE UNTO YOU.GOD WILL JUDGE AND DOES JUDGE.AND BY THE WAY YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HISTORY.NO CHRISTIAN COMMITED GENOCIDE,IT WAS THE CATHOLICS.IF YOU KNEW A THING OR TWO ABOUT THE BIBLE YOU WOULD KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CHRISTIAN AND THE REAL REASON PEOPLE KILLED THROUGHOUT HISTORY,AND WHY GOD WILL NEVER ACCEPT HOMOSEXUALITY.GOD SAYS ITS A BLESSED THING FOR MAN TO HATE EVIL.HOMOSEXUALITY IS EVIL.
Chayia

New Brockton, AL

#29 Jan 25, 2006
stand for goodness wrote:
<quoted text>you really dont know a thing about God
FIRST OF ALL, TO CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN MEANS TO BE CHRISTLIKE.NO MURDERER WILL ENTER HEAVEN ACCORDING TO MY BIBLE. THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY KILL OR HATE IN THE NAME OF GOD ARENT CHRISTIANS.CHRIST SAID YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. HE CALLED THEM WOLVES IN SHEEP CLOTHING.FALSE PROPHETS.AND GOD SETS THE EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE, NOT MAN. YOU CAN SAY YOU BELIEVE IN GOD ALL YOU WANT BUT THATS A LIE BECAUSE JESUS SAID IF YOU BELIEVED IN HIM YOU WOULD LOVE HIM AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. THE BIBLE SAYS TO HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP WITH THE UNFRUITFUL WORKS OF DARKNESS BUT RATHER REPROVE THEM.SPEAKING OUT AGAINST A SICK LIFESTYLE CALLED HOMOSEXUALITY IS MY DUTY TO GOD NOT MAN.GODS THE ONLY MANMADE LAWS I AGREE WITH ARE THE ONES THAT DONT GO AGAINST GODS WORD.THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS TO WITHDRAW YOURSELF FROM ANYONE WHO WALKS DISORDERLY. HOMOSEXUALS ARE CURSED. THATS WHY THE AVERAGE AGE FOR A HOMOSEXUAL MAN IS 41 YEARS OF AGE AND A WOMAN 46.NEVER EVER EVER WILL I ACCEPT SOMETHING THAT GOD SAYS HE HATES AS NORMAL.ITS SICK,ITS SATANIC AND NOONE IS BORN GAY.ITS A CHOICE IF ONE WAS BORN GAY, WOULDN'T THEY HAVE FOUND A DNA GENE? ITS THE HOMOSEXUALS,PERVERTS,MURDERERS ,DRUNKARDS, AMONG OTHERS WHO RUINED THIS COUNTRY AND WORLD, NOT US REAL CHRISTIANS. TO HATE AN ACT OF SATAN IS BEING JUDGMENTAL, ITS BIBLE.WITH YOUR GAY PRIDE THATS WHATS RUINING AMERICA.BSICALLY YOU ARE SAYING"YES IM GAY GOD HATES IT BUT I DONT CARE" WOE UNTO YOU.GOD WILL JUDGE AND DOES JUDGE.AND BY THE WAY YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HISTORY.NO CHRISTIAN COMMITED GENOCIDE,IT WAS THE CATHOLICS.IF YOU KNEW A THING OR TWO ABOUT THE BIBLE YOU WOULD KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CHRISTIAN AND THE REAL REASON PEOPLE KILLED THROUGHOUT HISTORY,AND WHY GOD WILL NEVER ACCEPT HOMOSEXUALITY.GOD SAYS ITS A BLESSED THING FOR MAN TO HATE EVIL.HOMOSEXUALITY IS EVIL.
Intolerance ruins us. Not Gay Pride. Bigotry ruins us. Hatred ruins us. Forcing your set of very narrow morals and using the Bible as your sword ruins us. I work for a living. I pay taxes, have 3 children and 5 grandchildren (none of whom are gay). We live in fear from people like you.
Who are you to sit in judgement of anybody? Where do you get off making statements like the above? Do you honestly think that Jesus would allow you to cast your hatred like stones? Have you learned nothing from his lessons?
Proud to be an American

Sacramento, CA

#30 Jan 25, 2006
If the US government decided that fundamentalist Christian "behavior" was as subversive as it has apparently decideed the practice of Islam is, or as potentially dangerous as HIV, none of these supposed followers of "God's Law" would hesitate to squawk about their rights and the need to end their persecution, no matter how convincingly the government argued a case for rounding them up, monitoring their phone calls, and tracking them by name. And they would be right.

Their ability now to ignore the rights of others in that situation only confirms their wholesale rejection of the principles that formed this great nation -- liberty, equality, and freedom from persecution being among the most important (with grave apologies to the survivors of those native Americans who were slaughtered to make room for it).

If you want to live in a totally Christian state, I believe Italy still has an open border folks, and it's the home of that most Christian of all Christian dudes, THE POPE. Heck, even Mexico is more devout than the U.S.. Don't let the door hit your rear on the way out. Meanwhile, this land was made for you AND ME, and I'm stayin.
Second Thoughts

Oro Grande, CA

#31 Jan 26, 2006
newt wrote:
<quoted text>

Actually in the case of a blood-born retrovirus such as HIV, it does not have to modify depending on the "location of injection". HIV does not get transmitted through the dermal barrier, it gets transmitted through open-sores, mucous membranes and obviously blood transfusions. There are two species of HIV that can infect humans, HIV-1 and HIV-2, however HIV-2 is largely isolated to Africa and HIV-1 has been around in humans since as early as the 1930's.
The phrase "does not have to" does not mean does not. You're injecting a retrovirus in an enviornment loaded with bacteria don't you think that there'll be some mutation? Whereas teh other area may have some bacteria the bacteria there is not as prolific. If you remember, we were comparing the passage from homosexual to heterosexual of the virus. At first, it was known as a homosexual condition, for the reason of it's barrier in crossing heterosexual lines in terms of intercourse.
Second Thoughts

Oro Grande, CA

#32 Jan 26, 2006
SO SICKENED wrote:
[ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? You are the evil one.
How DARE you say such a ludicrous thing about HIV.
I am sickened and disgusted. You're a pig.]

[The innocent have nothing to hide. Those who do good have nothing to fear from the government, but those who do evil.

If they want the government to fork out millions of dollars to invest in research to find a cure for a disease they wouldn't have got had they kept their pants zipped up, then they need to fulfill the criteria that the government sets forth. They were free to not give out the names if they were willing to have the government funding to stop...it was their choice.]
LOL, that's about a 10 on the tension scale.
Second Thoughts

Oro Grande, CA

#33 Jan 26, 2006
Proud to be an American wrote:
If the US government decided that fundamentalist Christian "behavior" was as subversive as it has apparently decideed the practice of Islam is, or as potentially dangerous as HIV, none of these supposed followers of "God's Law" would hesitate to squawk about their rights and the need to end their persecution, no matter how convincingly the government argued a case for rounding them up, monitoring their phone calls, and tracking them by name. And they would be right.

Their ability now to ignore the rights of others in that situation only confirms their wholesale rejection of the principles that formed this great nation -- liberty, equality, and freedom from persecution being among the most important (with grave apologies to the survivors of those native Americans who were slaughtered to make room for it).

If you want to live in a totally Christian state, I believe Italy still has an open border folks, and it's the home of that most Christian of all Christian dudes, THE POPE. Heck, even Mexico is more devout than the U.S.. Don't let the door hit your rear on the way out. Meanwhile, this land was made for you AND ME, and I'm stayin.
You forget that if society were 100% gay, there would be no further generations to squawk of liberty, equality, rights, or freedom from persecution. Can you say the same of Christianity, Islam, or any other religion?
anon

Las Cruces, NM

#34 Jan 26, 2006
Off the top of my head, I recall that the Shakers practiced a religion for which that's true.

But why do you think asking the majority to let us live in peace is tantamount to wanting everyone to be gay? Do you imagine we want you to be gay? Don't flatter yourself.
Second Thoughts wrote:
<quoted text>

You forget that if society were 100% gay, there would be no further generations to squawk of liberty, equality, rights, or freedom from persecution. Can you say the same of Christianity, Islam, or any other religion?
Related

Santa Ana, CA

#35 Jan 26, 2006
My brother is HIV positive but not gay. He does not tell people this and my other relatives protect his privacy. I am distressed that he interacts with people who have no idea. It makes me sick that everyone in my family knows but they don't mention it to his new freinds. One girl found out through the grapevine and was extremely angry at my brother for not telling her. She is still his freind but feels betrayed. My brother didn't tell us either. I found out from the person who gave him a dirty needle. No, my brother is not a Christian, please don't attack him or me for this post. I think he is wrong for protecting his privacy and I think people who come into contact with him have the right to know. I am very grateful that I know, however sad the news. I will lose my brother but I have protected my children from accidental exposure from open sores, which he always has on his wrists and arms. How would you like it if you were shake hands with him someday?
Tim

San Leandro, CA

#36 Jan 26, 2006
First of all Related, you need to educate yourself about HIV. Do you tell everyone your medical history every time you meet them? If he is not sharing needles or bodily fluids with you, he is not endangering you. One of the reason people with this disease do not tell everyone is due to the predjudice that you yourself show. Shaking hands with him WILL NOT give you HIV. I have been HIV positive for well over 10 years and have been around my nine nieces and nephews and have not given them the disease.
Related wrote:
My brother is HIV positive but not gay. He does not tell people this and my other relatives protect his privacy. I am distressed that he interacts with people who have no idea. It makes me sick that everyone in my family knows but they don't mention it to his new freinds. One girl found out through the grapevine and was extremely angry at my brother for not telling her. She is still his freind but feels betrayed. My brother didn't tell us either. I found out from the person who gave him a dirty needle. No, my brother is not a Christian, please don't attack him or me for this post. I think he is wrong for protecting his privacy and I think people who come into contact with him have the right to know. I am very grateful that I know, however sad the news. I will lose my brother but I have protected my children from accidental exposure from open sores, which he always has on his wrists and arms. How would you like it if you were shake hands with him someday?

Since: Dec 05

Palo Alto, CA

#37 Jan 26, 2006
Chayia wrote:
<quoted text>

Intolerance ruins us. Not Gay Pride. Bigotry ruins us. Hatred ruins us. Forcing your set of very narrow morals and using the Bible as your sword ruins us. I work for a living. I pay taxes, have 3 children and 5 grandchildren (none of whom are gay). We live in fear from people like you.
Who are you to sit in judgement of anybody? Where do you get off making statements like the above? Do you honestly think that Jesus would allow you to cast your hatred like stones? Have you learned nothing from his lessons?
He's a crazy nut, that's where he gets off on making statements like that. He's very angry about something, and I suspect its at himself for living a pathetic life full of let downs and disappointments.

Since: Dec 05

Palo Alto, CA

#38 Jan 26, 2006
Second Thoughts wrote:
<quoted text>

The phrase "does not have to" does not mean does not. You're injecting a retrovirus in an enviornment loaded with bacteria don't you think that there'll be some mutation? Whereas teh other area may have some bacteria the bacteria there is not as prolific. If you remember, we were comparing the passage from homosexual to heterosexual of the virus. At first, it was known as a homosexual condition, for the reason of it's barrier in crossing heterosexual lines in terms of intercourse.
What? HIV started spreading through first animal->human contact, and then through heterosexual contact in Africa. The only place it was first predominantly spread among homosexuals was in the US.

Since: Dec 05

Palo Alto, CA

#39 Jan 26, 2006
Second Thoughts wrote:
<quoted text>

You forget that if society were 100% gay, there would be no further generations to squawk of liberty, equality, rights, or freedom from persecution. Can you say the same of Christianity, Islam, or any other religion?
If society was 100% Islam, chances are we would not have a free society. If society was 100% Christian, as for example most of Europe was till a century or two ago, we wouldn't have free societies either. Our society is made richer and strong by diversity. I wouldn't want it to be 100% straight or 100% gay, there's room for all of us.
Ehhem

Santa Ana, CA

#40 Jan 26, 2006
Tim wrote:
First of all Related, you need to educate yourself about HIV. Do you tell everyone your medical history every time you meet them? If he is not sharing needles or bodily fluids with you, he is not endangering you. One of the reason people with this disease do not tell everyone is due to the predjudice that you yourself show. Shaking hands with him WILL NOT give you HIV. I have been HIV positive for well over 10 years and have been around my nine nieces and nephews and have not given them the disease.

<quoted text>
Well said but I am not prejudiced, just ignorant. Of course I need to
educate myself. It's not the infected person I am cautious about but
the disease itself. I think my HIV positive brother knows even less
than I do about this and like you, has been HIV positive for over 10 years. I am glad that you have not infected anyone and pray that he hasn't.. You seem educated to know how not to. My brother doesn't "care". He is a drug user and only cares about getting the drug into his body.

I worry about exposure from him because I chew the heck out of my fingernails and surrounding skin. That leaves openings and breaks in my fingers and my nail beds bleed afterward. He has open sores. Am I really safe to shake his hand? I know I can safely kiss his cheek, which is what I do.

I keep my children away because they are more ignorant than I am. If my child picks up a razor off the bathroom counter and nicks herself, is she safe?

If my brother's cat scratches him in play and then scratches someone else within one minute, are they safe? I have tried to research this and have been told there is no way to transmit the virus via animals, but common sense tells me blood on a claw can be introduced into another person, just like a needle. BUT, I was told by the Health Department to not worry about this. I was worried his cat would scratch a neighbor of his. Now he has three cats and all the children in his building chase them wanting to play. Are they safe?

No, I don't tell everyone I meet my medical history if I am not contagious. When I am sick, I tell people before they get too close for a hug or kiss. When I had scabies I wouldn't let anyone near me until I was sure that I could not expose them. That was embarrassing but I couldn't justify the risk of exposing someone to save my embarrassment. I never found out who exposed me and assume they were too embarrassed to mention it or ignorant.

Perhaps a registry for persons who are active drug users? I do love my brother but also love those who have not met him yet and stand to be exposed because he is too embarrassed to warn them. Relying on my brother to speak up is hopeless. He reserves that right to his privacy. And no, I do not go behind his back and notify persons. I feel badly about this, thinking I might be party to a criminal act. You see, he just doesn't care. He knew the needle was dirty before he used it and he didn't care about himself so why should society trust him to care about another?
Ehhem

Santa Ana, CA

#41 Jan 26, 2006
"Ehhem" user ID is actualy Related. I must have changed my name by posting on another thread as Ehhem. Sorry, new to this board (yes, it shows).

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Privacy Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Uber hires former IBM privacy chief to investig... Nov 20 Datsun Sunny 1
White House calls for more privacy laws (May '14) Nov 16 Rick OBrien 7
Appeals court takes on NSA surveillance case Nov 4 Reno NV 1
Apple CEO publicly acknowledges that he's gay Nov 1 Belle Sexton 6
Earthquake sensors track urban traffic, too Oct 29 rOBIN hOOD 1
NSA snooping angers France; Obama forced to def... (Oct '13) Oct '14 Swedenforever 4
Movement grows to provide Internet privacy Oct '14 Kid_Tomorrow 1

Privacy People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE