Dalai Lama's acts don't match words

Dalai Lama's acts don't match words

There are 24 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Jul 12, 2008, titled Dalai Lama's acts don't match words. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

I was saddened to read Lehigh University Chaplain Lloyd Steffen's July 8 op-ed column encouraging and furthering the myth of the Dalai Lama .

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago Tribune.

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Goose

London, UK

#1 Jul 13, 2008
Here's the other side of the Dalai lama:

January 8th, 2008
In the assembly hall of Jangtse Monastery, each monk stands up in turn in front of the speaker. First he must declare that he will never practise Dorje Shugden, and then walk under the pictures of the Protector Palden Lhamo and the Dalai Lama. Twelve monks who practise Dorje Shugden do not attend and are excommunicated and expelled from the monastery.

In Phukang Khangtsen, signed statements are collected from each monk, declaring that the signatory never practises Dorje Shugden.

Monks who do not want to sign the statement and take the oath to forego the practice of Dorje Shugden are pressured to do so. The signature and oath campaign is conducted in ten monastic sections.

With strong emotion, the Dalai Lama scolds the abbots of Jangtse and Shartse, accusing them of lying:
‘All you are doing is telling lies and playing drama.’

When the Jangtse abbot gets up and apologizes, the Dalai Lama shouts at him to sit down.

When the signatures are collected in Phukang Khangtsen, one monk is expelled for refusing to sign. Photographs and video footage are taken during the signature campaign. The Khangtsen signature campaign does not satisfy the Dalai Lama who insists that under the eyes of the monastery and in the presence of the other monks every monk should sign a statement that from this time forth he will renounce faith in Dorje Shugden and promise never to practise Dorje Shugden again.
Wisdomtruth

London, UK

#2 Jul 13, 2008
For all his smiles and charm, the Dalai Lama is harming Dorje Shugden practitioners in India. This 'man of peace' is denying them food, shelter, education and travel visas for worshipping a Buddha traditionally revered by millions for four hundred years. His own Teachers practised it too, but he says they are "wrong". So much for the love, compassion and religious tolerance he preaches everywhere!

http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/

Make up your own mind about this important issue.
WISH THEM WELL

Southampton, UK

#3 Jul 15, 2008
The Dalai Lama's website says that following long and
careful investigations, he "strongly discourages" Tibetan
Buddhists from "propitiating the fierce spirit known as
Dolgyal (Shugden)" as the practice, "which has strong
sectarian overtones", has a history of causing disharmony in
various parts of Tibet and among various Tibetan communities.

"Although he once practised Dolgyal propitiation himself,
His Holiness renounced the practice in 1975 after discovering
the profound historical, social and religious problems
associated with it. He did so with the full knowledge and
support of his junior tutor, the late Kyabje Trichang Rinpoche
through whom His Holiness first became associated with the
practice," the web site added.
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

San Francisco, CA

#4 Jul 15, 2008
I wonder what the Dalai Alpaca thinks of this!
WISH THEM WELL

Southampton, UK

#5 Jul 15, 2008
It should also be observed that these protests are being staged on the instruction of Kelsang Gyatso, who founded his sect, the New Kadampa Tradition in 1990. He told his followers to protest and they have followed his command. He told them to protest before in the '90s, then when he decided that he no longer wanted to be involved in Tibetan politics, he told his followers to stop, so they stopped.

The point is, no matter how many NKT members actually attend these protests, it is all on the commmand of one man, who strangely doesn't even get a mention in this article.

Democratic protest never looked so autocratic.
YELLOW

Southampton, UK

#6 Jul 15, 2008
I understand that these "monks" from the NKT sect are not real monks as they have not taken bhikkhu ordination - just the 5 precepts which puts them at the same level as Buddhist laymen. So they should not even be wearing robes.
YELLOW

Southampton, UK

#7 Jul 15, 2008
This has nothing to do with the Dalai Lama's superstition but the superstition of lamas like Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche and Zemey Rinpoche, all of whom taught that their protector killed Gelugpas that take teachings from other Tibetan traditions.

The Dalai Lama himself has said that there is no way that this spirit can harm him as he has pure refuge. It is the sectarian nature of this spirit that the Dalai Lama is against. The sectarianism associated with the cult of this spirit definitely preceeded the Dalai Lama, and is one of the reasons the 13th Dalai Lama restricted it. To say that these divisions did not exist exist before the Dalai Lama acted is completely untrue. Great nonsectarian lamas, such as Jamyang Khyentse oppossed the worship of this protector on the grounds that it spreads sectarianism.

Those monks that worship a spirit praised for killing nonsectarian Gelugpas are free to do as they choose, but they are not free to do it in monasteries that fall under the authority of the Ganden Phodrang and nonsectarian lamas like the Dalai Lama.
NKT SURVIVORS

Southampton, UK

#8 Jul 15, 2008
The trouble is, as a NKT member, you do not have the freedom to question Kelsang Gyatso's orders. Recently, Lucy James, a senior NKT teacher questioned Kelsang's return to political demonstrations. As a result, Kelsang sacked her as resident teacher and expelled her from her home.

In the NKT one is only free to do as one is told.
Kelsang Sukha, what about those many NKT 'monks' who are not even keeping the few vows they hold, such as Gen-la Thubten Gyatso, Gen-la Samden, Kelsang Lodro, etc?

BTW, according to the vinaya, lay people can take celibacy vows as an extension of the five basic vows. This does not make them ordained Sangha.
NKT SURVIVORS

Southampton, UK

#9 Jul 15, 2008
Of course, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, including the two Shugden monks currently wanted by Interpol for the murder of Geshe Lobsang Gyatso, an outspoken critic of this protector, and two of his assistants.

see:
http://www.ti mesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/news/wo
rld/asia/article1968
987.ece
NKT SURVIVORS

Southampton, UK

#10 Jul 15, 2008
The real problem you've got, wisdombuddha, is that we have examples from the teachings of Phabongkha, Trijang, Zemey, etc. of where they praise their protector for killing nonsectarian Gelugpas.

If you think Buddhas spend their time killing people who appreciate the broad tradition of the Buddhadharma you have a very funny idea of what it means to be a Buddha.

BTW, you repeatedly use the term Wisdom Buddha. What does this mean? Is there such a thing as an ignorance Buddha or is this just another NKT cultic term?
NKT SURVIVORS

Southampton, UK

#11 Jul 15, 2008
"We don't like hypocrisy. We hope you don't either"

I recently saw a man called Neil Elliot, who whilst an NKT 'monk' and NKT deputy spiritual director, manipulated young vulnerable women into having sex with him for their spiritual welfare, protesting against the Dalai Lama for being a 'hypocrite'.

I don't like hypocrisy either and the NKT are full of it.
NKT SURVIVORS

Southampton, UK

#12 Jul 15, 2008
Behind the protests is a new religious movement called the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT). The leader and sole authority in that group is Geshe Kelsang Gyasto who was expelled in 1996 by 15 Abbots and Geshes from his monastic community , because they felt his conduct not in accordance of that of a Buddhist monk. In the NKT everything is based on his sole authority: only his books are studied, only his followers are allowed to teach and he removes the resident teachers as he likes to do without any democratic process. Former members refer to NKT mostly as a cult, and INFORM has received many many complaints about the NKT. For a insider the allegations against the Dalai Lama as being a "dictator" "hypocrite" "liar" are seen as the projection of the actual situation in the NKT itself. The protests came up after a bigs internal scandal which was suppressed and members were forbidden to discuss this in the online forums, moreover kelsang gyatso ordered to close all nkt chats. instead of helping the victims of the internal scandal and do some self-introspection about the own faults, NKT leadership used the way of bringing the confused members together again by a hostile group action against the Dalai Lama, in the name of religious freedom. Where as who really lacks religious freedom are NKT practitioners themselves. It looks like the NKT who is operating under the label Western Shugden Society want to be put into the Guinness Book of WorldRecords for being the best in projecting the own inner situation onto others. The basis for their accusations, some events in India, are a mix of semi-truth and untruths. For a background of the events in India one can read this well-informed article for the time being:
http://www.ti betinfo
net.net/content/upda
te/116
NKT SURVIVORS

Southampton, UK

#13 Jul 15, 2008
We don't need to go farther than to listen to the taped message by the young Trijang Chogtrul Rinppoche about how far the fanatical Shugden could go to. In the message the young reincarnate of Tijang Rinpoche had alleged of having hear himself some Shugden supporters conspiring to murder his close aide and blaming the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan govt. for the crime. What more evidence would anyone need than this pathetic and extremist design of the bunch of Shugden fanatics. Moreover, the WSS and other pro-Shugden sites all full of lies and baseless accusations and unfounded 'reports'. One even reported that house of Geshe Chime Tsering, the former Secretary of Dorje Shuden Society in Delhi has be gutted by non Shugden Tibetans...all nonsense. No one except for Shugden people themselve know about his whereabouts and where he lives. His father who lives in southern Indian Tibetan Settlement of Bylakuppe is all fine and have also severed ties with the Geshe. And nothing has happened to his house either. So, where does all this **** of Shugden allegation comes from... Its all a part of larger gameplan drawn in collusion with the Red China to divert attention of the world from recent crisis in Tibet. Look at the timing of their case filed in the Delhi High Court, the demonstrations...all points to only one point that the Shugden supporters are playiing right into the hands of Red China. But this is doomed to failure....as the Chinese govt. say. keep up michael.
NKT SURVIVORS

Southampton, UK

#14 Jul 15, 2008
who is funding the wss. i hope its not a uk charity,or a certain communist counrty.....dont worry you wont find out because they have no registered office or leader.
WSS was funded probably by the New Kadampa Tradition, an UK charity and New Religious Movement. Why they have probably funded it?

These signs indicate it:
- press speaker: Kelsang Pema (NKT)
- frontman and leader in the USA: Kelsang Khyenrab (present successor of Geshe Kelsang)
- frontwoman and leader in USA: Kelsang Dekyong (NKT USA representative)
- fronman and leader in Germany: Kelsang Ananda (NKT representative In Germany)
- Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, founder of the New Kadampa Tradition, has asked all his students by Email to participate the demonstrations, Lucy James (USA) who did not encourage her students thoroughly was removed from her position as resident teacher, so there is pressure to local NKT resident teachers to convince their members to go to the protests
- the idendity of the website of the western shugden society is made hidden via proxyserver, however some media datas in the files refer to "Tharpa", a NKT enterprise, which publishes only Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's books, and to a translator of his books in Spain

I would be happy if the press investigates.

About the last NKT media campaign of the NKT against the Dalai Lama, one can read
The Independent, London: Battle of the Buddhists by Andrew Brown
http://www.tibet.com
/dholgyal/CTA-book/c
hapter-5-5.html
The Guardian - London: Shadow boxing on the path to Nirvana
http://www.tibet.com
/dholgyal/CTA-book/c
hapter-5-4.html
yours

United States

#15 Jul 15, 2008
I don't know if someone here saw the demonstration against the Dalai Lama at Lehigh or other places. Three hundred monks and nuns. Quite a few of them, Tibetan. These people are saying that the Dalai Lama is not doing what he preaches.
Unfortunately what they are saying is true. The success of the Dalai Lama, beyond his charisma, comes from the teachings about universal love and compassion that he learned from his Gurus. But not only is he doing the opposite of what these sublime teachings teach, hes also been persecuting the people faithful to those same Gurus -the practitioners of the Protector Dorjeshugden, a mainstream group in Tibetan Buddhism until he turned them into outcasts.
His persecution is painful for Western practitioners. Ask yourself the question: would I like to have my family, my colleagues, receive emails where I am accused of being a malignant spirit worshipper? The Western followers of the Dalai Lama are propagating this type of calumny induced by his long, insistent campaign against Dorjeshugden.
But Westerners live in countries where there is a limit to the abuse you can inflict to people. The world should know that the Dalai Lama is persecuting helpless monks and lay people in India, where they have been thrown out of their monasteries, out of their jobs, out of their schools being children of practitioners, where the rest of Tibetans had to swear in front of deities that they are never going to have human contact with them any more. This segregation was ordered by the Dalai Lama himself, in January of this year, because, he said repeatedly, he had the right to finish what he had started -meaning the ban on Dorje Shugden in 1996.
The suffering of these Tibetans is being ignored due to a reason most bizarre: because it seems outlandish, incredible, that the one who preaches religious tolerance to others is doing the opposite of what he preaches. A cruel vicious circle.
The Dalai Lama is transgressing the laws of all civilized countries and he is getting away with it, because he has on his side charisma, the precious teachings he proclaims without following, his celebrity status, his Nobel Peace Prize.
The world should open its eyes and stop his wrong actions. The Dalai Lama is not stopping them because the world has decided to close its eyes in his case.
Those who adhere to values of human rights should not allow this to happen any more.
Please investigate, go to YouTube, to websites like the Shugdensociety.info/home, like Wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org , and others, to find the truth.
Yours
A Dep

Canada

#16 Jul 17, 2008
Please investigate. Please stand up and defend the right for Buddhists to say their prayer without fear or persecution. This prayer belongs to them and to their Buddhist tradition.

Just because he is powerful does not give the Dalai Lama the right to suppress the religious freedom of other Buddhist traditions. That has never been the role of the Dalai Lama. He is using religion as a political weapon. It is well-documented.

Please look. Please investigate. Please help.
Goose

London, UK

#17 Jul 18, 2008
Yes please investigate. I have seen a transcript of "off-the-record" briefings to Western media in London given by the Dalai Lama in the late 1990's on this whole issue of Dorje Shugden just as the last demonstrations were held.

Want to know the "evidence" on which all this persecution is based? It is the Dalai Lama's bad dreams of yaks, people with sores on their bodies, bearded monks and, of course, to cap it all, the conclusive proof of throwing balls of dough in the air and seeing how and where they land.

Yes, folks, this is the Dalai Lama's scientific method for launching sectarian religious discrimination on a worldwide scale. Now, all this wouldn't be so bad seeing that Tibetans are notoriously superstitious - like the Chinese. What is truly goggling is that the hard-nosed Western media all simply swallowed this hocus-pocus as fact just like babbling babes.(But of course, as it's "off-the-record" it can't be quoted - as they would be betraying their sources etc etc.).

It is this kind of mass hypnotism that the DL has performed on gullible Westerners wherever he has been for the last 20 yrs. But those times are drawing to a close now....it will not be very long before "Hollywood Monk" will be disgraced in everyone's eyes. Unless of course he can follow the example of his illustrious predecessor the Great Fifth? Last chance.
Goose

London, UK

#18 Jul 19, 2008
NKT SURVIVORS wrote:
who is funding the wss.
Is that an offer of funds? If so you can donate online at http://westernshugdensociety.org/ so that Shugden practitioners can travel to express their democratic freedom of speech against a frightening religious dictator who's time of reckoning is coming soon.

For video news on his followers violent attacks on peaceful people in the middle of the day in NYC please go to:
http://wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/

As monks in India have been cut off from material support by the DL's supporters you can also donate online at the same address above. Thank you for your compassionate generosity.
Wisdomtruth

London, UK

#19 Jul 19, 2008
Goose, I'm in awe of you! What fantastic posts.

I laughed so much at this:

Want to know the "evidence" on which all this persecution is based? It is the Dalai Lama's bad dreams of yaks, people with sores on their bodies, bearded monks and, of course, to cap it all, the conclusive proof of throwing balls of dough in the air and seeing how and where they land.

Yes, folks, this is the Dalai Lama's scientific method for launching sectarian religious discrimination on a worldwide scale.

It's funny but also very sad. I wonder if the Dalai Lama has completely lost it.
Tibetan Guy

Toronto, Canada

#20 Jul 27, 2008
Born again Buddhists are foundimentalists and foundimentalism has not place within Buddhism.

Some born-again Buddhists in the west are becoming extremists and religious fundamentalists due to their ignorance and arrogance and greed. They havent satisfied with everything they had in the past. They have abandoned their own tradition and faith for something new, but they are not happy.
They usually hold extreme believes after they have converted into another faith. They want whole Buddhist community to follow them, even His Holiness the Dalai Lama, because they havent focused working on to reduce their inner qualities of negatives. So their hatred hasnt minimized instead again proud and arrogance.
Now they are following to Dalai Lama tour and disrupting his followers peace of mind and disturbing his teachings. This is the first time they have taken to the streets. They neglected Iraq and Afghanistan wars. They havent taken streets for morals and justice, because they purpose choose the time critical time to take the side of Chinese dictators side to against the Tibetans.
They are calling Dalai Lama a destroyer of pure tradition of Je Tsonkapa. Making baseless accusations saying he is not providing passport for the Sudhen followers. The fact is Dalai Lama and his government is not issuing passports for any members of the Tibetan community in India, because they are refuges in exile. I have lived in Dharamsala for 3 years, even a didnt get an ID card. You Sudhen people should know bout the limitation of an exile governments.
Dalai Lama is the head of the Tibetan Buddhism, especially the head of Gelugpa sect. He knows Je Tsonkapas teachings more than any one on this earth. Also he doesnt distinguish among sects it comes to his won practices. Therefore, Shuden followers in the west see him destroyer of pure Gelug tradition, because they have adopted views from sectarian money minded teachers like Kelsang Gyatso

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