Stop Maryland's season of cruelty: fa...

Stop Maryland's season of cruelty: fall bow hunting -

There are 113988 comments on the Baltimore Sun story from Sep 12, 2007, titled Stop Maryland's season of cruelty: fall bow hunting -. In it, Baltimore Sun reports that:

Anticipating autumn's bounty of cooler weather, glorious sunshine and majestic foliage also brings sadness to my heart, knowing the suffering about to be inflicted by Maryland's bow hunters on our deer starting ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Baltimore Sun.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173685 Dec 26, 2012
Correction
I did NOT become that "purist" ^

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173686 Dec 26, 2012
I thoroughly enjoyed fishing. I thoroughly enjoyed becoming an accomplished fly fisherman, and I became a teacher of fly tying, building fly rods, and taking folks, especially the little ones, fishing.
After awhile of doing that, other realizations, and the old question of if killing to eat was wrong, began to creep back into my psychi.

I discovered during my strict adherence to catch and release only fly fishing, that I was killing fish without meaning nor intending to do so. I had to make a decision or compromise, or stop fishing. I went to barbless hooks to try to lessen what I perceived to be my negative impact. I thought I had the answer, and then learned about the "stiletto effect" with barbless hooks.
The stiletto effect is where the barbless hook slips out of the hole it first pierced, and then pierces another hole, and then another, and then another, as the hook comes out and then back in the flesh in a new place during fighting the fish to hand.
I tried to overcome that by training myself to be better at landing the fish with a constant steady pressure so the hook would stay in only one hole. I was still killing a few fish here and there, if for no other reason than the energy it took out of the fish during the "battle", and they were unable to recover.
I kept fishing, but started taking the ones that I killed by accident and told myself that it was OK, if the fish were eaten. I began to eat some of them streamside when they are the freshest, and gave the others to people I thought appreciated it. Some did not, and those fish went to the worms.
Now what? I asked myself.
I asked myself all the questions that get posed here by those who oppose what we do as hunters. I asked myself all those same questions, and made an honest attempt at answering them truthfully, and with logic and reason instead of my running away from it with my strict emotional approach to it.

I went vegetarian for a spell.
All those rabbits and skunks, and pheasants, and badgers that I had personally chopped to death with the swather and mower and combine while growing up on the farm, reappeared in my dreams, and I was haunted by their spirits.

I was unable to escape death, no matter how hard I tried. I started to think about my own demise in a new and different light, and found that it was interconnected with the deaths of all those I tried not to kill. I tried very hard not to kill, but failed.

I came to realize that, I mistook how I felt for logic and reason, and was not running from the killing, and trying to avoid it, or stop it because it was "wrong", but rather, because it was simply unpleasant for me to kill and witness suffering and death so up close and personal.
I discovered that no matter how hard I tried to distance myself from it, and took all the precautions against it as I humanly could, that the death followed me, and that I was unable to avoid it.

I decided that it was impossible to escaoe death as a living entity, a human being, and that even my own living would end - in this dimension.

And then ...
I discovered the circle of life. Actually I did not discover it, as it already existed and had existed since the beginning of time. I discovered nothing. I accepted something that I could not change.

Since that time, I have become an accomplished gardner, and elk hunter. I decided that since I could not change the exioms of life, I could at least continue to do my best to limit my negative impact as much as I possibly could. I began to look at what and where I rpocurred my food. I learned that factory raised animals were laden with chemicals and growth hormones, and antibiotics. I, as the majority of our society, both on and off the reservation, were being forced to ingest drugs.

cont.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173687 Dec 26, 2012
I studied plants so I could be a better gardener, but more than that, I studied them to see if science agreed with the grandfathers when they said the one leggeds are relatives too.
I learned that they are.
I learned that plants have simple brains, and intentional movements, as thier root ends seek out nutrients and avoided obstacles. I learned that some scientists say that carrots scream when they are pulled from thier mother's womb. I tried to hear them scream, but learned that I can not hear it. I learned that there are things that happen even though I am incapable of using my five senses to know about it.
The grandfathers showed me how to listen with my inner ears and see with my inner eyes. They taught me how to use my innate sixth sense, so that I could hear their screams, and know that their screams were real. I learned that I must become open to possibly instead of what I perceived as impossibility.
I learned that death is part of life and there is no death without life and there is no life without death.
I discovered that since death is a part of life, that there must be an acceptable place for it in my dimension and life, and it would be a healthy thing for me to embrace it - if I could.
Someone who understood my plight, and was familiar with the circle of life, took me elk hunting. I had been elk hunting for 18 seasons before I layed down my weapons, and my "journey" began in earnest, but, I had never killed an elk - in 18 years of supposedly trying to do so.
He showed me how to respect the elk, and make sure that they too get the "burial ceremony" that all living things, deserve. They are our relatives. They give up their lives for us to live.
The dead are deserving of respect, even if they have a much different physical appearance than we humans.
He showed me how to give something back to the Earth as I had just taken from her bounty, and he showed me that death is a trade transaction, not a finite ultimatum, and that it is OK, to kill and eat, as it is the only way we can live.
He, with the help of others in my "village" showed me a way to live, that I could live with.

The irony, since human life is pure irony in many ways, is that the one who showed me the path back, is also the one who I took on his first deer hunt nigh on 50 years ago now.

It is not pride that I feel when I kill, it is life.
It is not an avoidance of my accomplishments that cause me to avoid photos of my "accomplishment".
It is a simple respect for the dead. The dead who gave their very lives so that I could live.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173688 Dec 26, 2012
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes it's not even an accomplishment. It's just a fond memory of a moment in your life. I take tons of pictures....of everything.
You have heard the story of my avoidance of that photo first hand.
I hope I have filled in the gaps as to why I declined that day on the refuge in the snow.

No, you do not take photos "of everything".
Did you take one to remember the last time you, mas ...
Never mind.

<wink>

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173689 Dec 26, 2012
peteoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Merry Christmas all !!
I see that Squach hasn't replied in some time.
Hope all is well with him and everyone else.
I can see where people are proud of their accomplishments.
There is no denying that. That is why you see pictures and mounts.
Ever see a picture of a cake someone made?
How about a fingerpainting on the side of a fridge?
Someone breaking the tape at a finish line?
A small rock retrieved from the top of a mountain?
After all...if you aren't proud of what you're doing...then why do it?
Much less take pictures of it.
I disagree with pope and young assertions that IT is about honoring the animal.
If so....there would be no mention of the hunter. So it's not glorifying death....it's
'Glorifying' an accomplishment.
.
All that said...you'd be hard pressed to find a picture of me with a deer although I was smiling for a trail camera
Recently. There may have been a deer running away in the background....
Are some people competitive?
Absolutely....
That's been going on for a long time...
http://www.dancingbearindiantrader.com/dresss...
Look at my avatar photo Pete.
Most people miss it. Many do not even recognize (or do not know maybe) that horses do not generally grow elk antlers.

Photos of antlers, or mounts, do not bother me, as I associate those type things with someone keeping the ashes of their dead relatives. I do have the ashes of the best hunting partner I ever had, my Springer, on my dresser. I plan a pilgrimage to the canyon next summer to put them where I remember him best, and he was so alive and engaged in life and all it meant to him.

It is the photos of the whole body, which encased the life itself, that I find disrespectful.

Oh, and Squach has a new teevee show that keeps him very busy. I think it is him on teevee anyway. Squach and his immediate family apparently have deep respect for the dead as well. One never sees their dead strewn around or in pictures. I wonder why that is.
<wink>

Happy New Year Pete.

I enjoy our chats here very much. You see deep into the water my friend.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#173690 Dec 26, 2012
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
You have heard the story of my avoidance of that photo first hand.
I hope I have filled in the gaps as to why I declined that day on the refuge in the snow.
No, you do not take photos "of everything".
Did you take one to remember the last time you, mas ...
Never mind.
<wink>
"You have heard the story of my avoidance of that photo first hand."
Yes, I did..... just a few minutes ago when I read your post. Though I did wonder why that majestic animal was cut off on that photo.

I respect your feelings on this issue, but I feel a little different about it... for a different reason.

I have found dead birds a few times at work that were window hits and brought them home to photograph them before laying them under the oak tree to sustain another life. Usually my goal is to show people what a beautiful creature it is/was.

One window kill was a Common Yellowthroat. Another was a Red-eyed Vireo. Unless one actively searches for birds in nature, people will likely never see either of these two species...though they are both very common and abundant over most of the country in spring and summer. They don't come to feeders, but they will come to water, so a bird bath will attract them (especially if the water is moving).

The Yellowthroat can be found in marshes, wetlands and overgrown fields...if one is patient enough for it to come into the open. The vireo usually stays high in the trees in the forest and can be heard much more than it is seen.

My reasoning is just maybe seeing these beautiful dead birds in up close detail will help convince folks to take steps in their own life to protect and conserve... not only birds, but all animals. Whether it's minimizing window hits, protecting habitat, reducing pesticide use, etc... people won't care about them if they don't know what there is to care about.

BTW, I haven't photographed dead birds in a long time. New and better camera equipment has eliminated the need to do so.

Oh yeah, I also photographed a dove that had a humungous growth on it's face after it passed away. I could get much better views of it at different angles. It is in my archives. Someday I'll show it to someone who can tell me what exactly it was, or how or why it might have formed.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#173691 Dec 28, 2012
Aquarius-WY wrote:
It is not pride that I feel when I kill, it is life.
It is not an avoidance of my accomplishments that cause me to avoid photos of my "accomplishment".
It is a simple respect for the dead. The dead who gave their very lives so that I could live.
Some of these quotes from hunters would be laughable if they weren't so sick. You feel life when you kill ???

If you need to "feel life" by killing a defenseless animal then
there is something seriously wrong with your gray matter.

“Hey”

Since: Nov 07

laurel md

#173692 Dec 28, 2012
EcoAngel wrote:
<quoted text>
Some of these quotes from hunters would be laughable if they weren't so sick. You feel life when you kill ???
If you need to "feel life" by killing a defenseless animal then
there is something seriously wrong with your gray matter.
Apparently someone thinks my definition was mean...
"I think of arrogance as my way is the best way and only way."

What do you think ecoangel?

“Hey”

Since: Nov 07

laurel md

#173693 Dec 28, 2012
Aquarius-WY wrote:
...
It is a simple respect for the dead. The dead who gave their very lives so that I could live.
GREAT post AQ. Thanks for taking the time !
There's always something to learn from you :)

There's also the aspect of respect for life. One of the reasons why I don't fish unless I'm apt to eat or feed others with what is caught. But that's my view that isn't getting jammed down anyone's throat.

IMO pride in doing ANYTHING the right way is okay.

You hunted for 18 years before getting an elk. Obviously being very good at whatever you do is important. Sounds like persistence in pursuing perfection.

Instilling that viewpoint in younger folks is an accomplishment :)

"proud of his accomplishments" got 1.25 Million hits on google.
"proud of her accomplishments" gets 1.3 million
"proud of my accomplishments" gets 775k

I think it is safe to say that MANY kids are looking for respect and acknowledgment of their achievements.

"take pride in your work" gets 2.6M hits.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#173694 Dec 28, 2012
peteoo wrote:
<quoted text>
GREAT post AQ. Thanks for taking the time !
There's always something to learn from you :)
I agree!

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#173695 Dec 28, 2012
peteoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently someone thinks my definition was mean...
"I think of arrogance as my way is the best way and only way."
What do you think ecoangel?
Anyone that say they need to "kill" to "feel life"
has a serious mental problem.
Get Out

Jacksonville, NC

#173696 Dec 28, 2012
EcoAngel wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone that say they need to "kill" to "feel life"
has a serious mental problem.
HSUS Vegan is that you? If it is you haven’t stopped us from hunting and never will, how’s that Karma for you?(Even if it’s not you won’t stop us from hunting either). You been out skulking around in the dark sabotaging tree stands this year? Yak at you later I need to get my hunting gear ready for tonights camping/ hunting trip.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173697 Dec 28, 2012
EcoAngel wrote:
<quoted text>
Some of these quotes from hunters would be laughable if they weren't so sick. You feel life when you kill ???
If you need to "feel life" by killing a defenseless animal then
there is something seriously wrong with your gray matter.
If you say so, but then what you say has no effect on my life circle maam.

Perhaps you could benefit from an educaton by the grandmothers. Your life experience would be a much more enjoyable one if you embraced the circle of life, instead of your chosen path, which is to hate those whom disagree with you.
You have no real life experience in the nature of how Mother Nature lives. Her rules say that all life dies, and all life is sustained by others dying.
What you have maam, is a life, as it relates to the outside world, which is merely you thinking about what life must be like on the outside of your condo, and deciding how it is from afar.

Please avoid judging me until you have walked in my steps maam.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173698 Dec 28, 2012
EcoAngel wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone that say they need to "kill" to "feel life"
has a serious mental problem.
What you post maam, is your own words which you try to make mine. Your words maam, carry your intent to slander me.

My words carry iron, and are as true as I can make them, so that the hope of you grasping where I am coming from, will be successful, and we truly do achieve effective communication between us.
My words are simply this:

All humans need to kill in order to remain with "life".

You try to imply maam, that I am seeking a release of some sort when I kill to live, that is akin to a full body adrenaline type rush that you may, hopefully, experience if your mate and you achieve climax during coitus.

If I felt the same energy when I kill to live, that I feel when achieving one of the pinnicles of the human emotional and physical experience on Earth which I described above - I would refrain from sexual intercourse for the remainder of my days, and the mere thought of making love would be repulsive to me.
I did not puke the first time I had sex maam. Did you?

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#173699 Dec 29, 2012
Aquarius-WY wrote:
that is akin to a full body adrenaline type rush that you may, hopefully, experience if your mate and you achieve climax during coitus.
I did not puke the first time I had sex maam. Did you?
Leave it to one of these arrogant lunkheads to make an analogy using sex. What a shocking development.
Athough they do tend to think with the little head rather than the big head, which is why they are hunters in the first place.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173700 Dec 29, 2012
EcoAngel wrote:
<quoted text>
Leave it to one of these arrogant lunkheads to make an analogy using sex. What a shocking development.
Athough they do tend to think with the little head rather than the big head, which is why they are hunters in the first place.
If ^that^ is what you gleaned from my words maam, then I can only say that I hope someone teaches you how to read and understand what is written.

You can have all the dillusional dreams you wish. Your dreams do not effect my life circle maam.

I tried to comunicate with you.
You refuse, but more than that maam, you intentionally distort my words, and prefer to attack me personally instead.

We're done here.
Have a great day maam.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173701 Dec 29, 2012
EcoAngel wrote:
<quoted text>
Leave it to one of these arrogant lunkheads to make an analogy using sex. What a shocking development.
Athough they do tend to think with the little head rather than the big head, which is why they are hunters in the first place.
Before I go however, I would like to point out that the ASPCA has lost the lawsuit brought against them by Barnum and Bailey. The courts have directed the ASPCA to pay the company and the families of Barnum and Bailey Circuses,$9.3 MILLION in restitution and for defamation.
Deformation is what you attempt against me maam. That reflects more negative on you than me, as your slander is merely your lie maam.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/aspca-pays-9...

The lawsuits against HSUS and other defendants is still being considered. From what I have read elsewhere on the matter, the HSUS and the other defendants will lose as well.

That being said, I would also point out that the number of hunters is increasing of late, and the largest and fastest growing group in those increasing hunter numbers, are women maam.

The times are changing to be sure. Your material is out of date, as it relates to and depicts another time in the past, and the pendulum has moved to the other "side" maam.

Please reconsider your stance, clenched teeth, and crossed arms, and learn real communication and understanding of your fellow man to be more important than your irrational hate of those you fail to understand.
I would send you a pair of my moccasins so you could walk in them for a bit, but I fear they would be too large for you, and they would hurt your head maam.

The real sad part is that not only do you fail to understand, you refuse to even attempt it.
That is the trademark of the eventual loser in any battle of life in this dimension maam.

I understand where you are coming from as I have been there on this matter. I am not asking you to join me, as your life is your own and therefore so is your decison to live as you see fit. I am asking you to respect me maam.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#173702 Dec 29, 2012
peteoo wrote:
<quoted text>
GREAT post AQ. Thanks for taking the time !
There's always something to learn from you :)
There's also the aspect of respect for life. One of the reasons why I don't fish unless I'm apt to eat or feed others with what is caught. But that's my view that isn't getting jammed down anyone's throat.
IMO pride in doing ANYTHING the right way is okay.
You hunted for 18 years before getting an elk. Obviously being very good at whatever you do is important. Sounds like persistence in pursuing perfection.
Instilling that viewpoint in younger folks is an accomplishment :)
"proud of his accomplishments" got 1.25 Million hits on google.
"proud of her accomplishments" gets 1.3 million
"proud of my accomplishments" gets 775k
I think it is safe to say that MANY kids are looking for respect and acknowledgment of their achievements.
"take pride in your work" gets 2.6M hits.
I guess it is just that I make an intentional separation between pride and pleasure.

I see it as being pleased and happy with one's accomplishments is much different than being "proud" of them. I see pride, as when the pleasure and happiness of one's accomplishments has been taken too far and it becomes a weapon of sorts against another as it implies that old "I'm better than you" conundrum.

It seems to me that pride is a negative, whilst it is perfectly fine to feel pleasure and happiness in life.

Yes, I know. What's in a word eh. I hear your meaning, and it is the same as mine I suspect.

Happy New Year Pete.

“I'm a humane bowhunter”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#173704 Dec 29, 2012
Just wanted to take a moment and say hello to everyone and wish everybody a Happy New Year.

“I'm a humane bowhunter”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#173705 Dec 29, 2012
Aquarius-WY wrote:
I studied plants so I could be a better gardener, but more than that, I studied them to see if science agreed with the grandfathers when they said the one leggeds are relatives too.
I learned that they are.
I learned that plants have simple brains, and intentional movements, as thier root ends seek out nutrients and avoided obstacles. I learned that some scientists say that carrots scream when they are pulled from thier mother's womb. I tried to hear them scream, but learned that I can not hear it. I learned that there are things that happen even though I am incapable of using my five senses to know about it.
The grandfathers showed me how to listen with my inner ears and see with my inner eyes. They taught me how to use my innate sixth sense, so that I could hear their screams, and know that their screams were real. I learned that I must become open to possibly instead of what I perceived as impossibility.
I learned that death is part of life and there is no death without life and there is no life without death.
I discovered that since death is a part of life, that there must be an acceptable place for it in my dimension and life, and it would be a healthy thing for me to embrace it - if I could.
Someone who understood my plight, and was familiar with the circle of life, took me elk hunting. I had been elk hunting for 18 seasons before I layed down my weapons, and my "journey" began in earnest, but, I had never killed an elk - in 18 years of supposedly trying to do so.
He showed me how to respect the elk, and make sure that they too get the "burial ceremony" that all living things, deserve. They are our relatives. They give up their lives for us to live.
The dead are deserving of respect, even if they have a much different physical appearance than we humans.
He showed me how to give something back to the Earth as I had just taken from her bounty, and he showed me that death is a trade transaction, not a finite ultimatum, and that it is OK, to kill and eat, as it is the only way we can live.
He, with the help of others in my "village" showed me a way to live, that I could live with.
The irony, since human life is pure irony in many ways, is that the one who showed me the path back, is also the one who I took on his first deer hunt nigh on 50 years ago now.
It is not pride that I feel when I kill, it is life.
It is not an avoidance of my accomplishments that cause me to avoid photos of my "accomplishment".
It is a simple respect for the dead. The dead who gave their very lives so that I could live.
AQ, I hope all is well with you. The views you present show much thought. I believe we are in agreement on most things. Although I feel there is still much to learn from my side. Take care my friend and best wishes in 2013.

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