Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36039 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

Since: Aug 11

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#22828 Nov 28, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
KiMare is a broken, crippled and defective being. There are billions on the earth just like him.
KiMare has nothing with which to understand anything let alone the "lessons" he preaches to others. KiMare would have to admit that he does not know anything and he can not find anything in him with the humility to admit as much.
People who insist they know something can not learn.
KiMare is like the little boy who throws rocks at frogs. He might enjoy it and have a good time but it is bad for the frogs.
How very true.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22829 Nov 28, 2013
randy andy wrote:
<quoted text>i think that this poor sod must have copped it up the cracker during his school days and now realises how wring this was, even though he may have enjoyed it!
There is nothing wrong with gay sex. Never has been. The biggest problem people who do not do gay sex very often is the fact that they enjoyed it and people LOVE to suffer and feel bad about them selves.

This is why KiMare adds to the suffering of the Universe; he tries to make people feel bad about enjoying recreational sex and that is objectively wrong. KiMare would better spend his time looking into his own defects instead of trying to convince other people that their peaceful sexual desires with other consenting adults are somehow a defect. They are not, KiMare is a defective being; an evil liar and he should be ashamed of himself for indulging his base instincts like this. Normal people do not do what KiMare has devoted his life to.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22830 Nov 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone can 'document'. I didn't need to.
TRANSLATION: My shit doesn't stink and I should be in heaven advising God about what to do with the likes of you. How dare you question me.

Translation provided by His Holiness Reverend Alan.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22831 Nov 28, 2013
randy andy wrote:
<quoted text>There you go again!!! You say a lot, but you tell me nothing. At least nothing i already know about plus ss relationships are peoples choice. adults who are old enough to make choices for themselves and no by some old testy you seem to abide by its very word. Relax and stop this bs bible bable crap you continue to vomit forth from your mouth!
Usually 'randy andy' one must quote the babble crap to prove to the biblicists that it really is crap. If they never see the crap they will believe the Bible is the holy word of God.

Why, Smile, here is some of the crapola right now!:

2 Kings 18:27, " ...that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?"

KiMare used to read that to children in Sunday School.

Smile.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22832 Nov 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You call science 'bible babble'?
The question of whether or not the Bible is scientifically valid has been debated for hundreds of years by critics and supporters alike. Biblicists have contended the book not only supports science but contains many statements that are ahead of their time. The Bible supposedly has great scientific wisdom and only now are we beginning to realize as much. Critics, such as myself, believe the Bible is its own worst enemy. From our perspective there are more than enough statements contained therein to forestall any claims to scientific precision. Indeed, many statements clearly belong in the realm of mythology and folklore, while others are simply false. Some are so vague it's difficult to know what is meant, so naturally, biblicists choose the more scientifically oriented interpretation. Those believing the Bible to be scientifically precise and wise beyond its years should read, digest, and remember the following assertions contained within its covers:

The bat is a bird (Lev. 11:19, Deut. 14:11, 18);
Some fowls are four-footed (Lev. 11:20-21);
Some creeping insects have four legs.(Lev. 11:22-23);
Hares chew the cud (Lev. 11:6);
Conies chew the cud (Lev. 11:5);
Camels don't divide the hoof (Lev. 11:4);
The earth was formed out of and by means of water (2 Peter 3:5 RSV);
The earth rest on pillars (1 Sam. 2:8);
The earth won't be moved (1Chron. 16:30);
A hare does not divide the hoof (Deut. 14:7);
The rainbow is not as old as rain and sunshine (Gen. 9:13);
A mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds and grows into the greatest of all shrubs (Matt. 13:31-32 RSV);
Turtles have voices (Song of Sol. 2:12);
The earth has ends or edges (Job 37:3);
The earth has four corners (Isa. 11:12, Rev. 7:1);
Some 4-legged animals fly (Lev. 11:21);
The world's language didn't evolve but appeared suddenly (Gen. 11:6-9; and
A fetus can understand speech (Luke 1:44).

Some statements are so vague that apologists can often evade dilemmas by creative rationalizations. As Ingersoll said: "If the holy writer uses general terms, an ingenious theologian can harmonize a seemingly preposterous statement with the most obdurate fact.(Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 5, p. 37). For instance, Gen. 1:7-8 says: "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament;... And god called the firmament Heaven." Realizing the scientific implausibility inherent in this narration, some apologists attempt to portray the firmament as nothing more than the atmosphere separating the moist clouds above from the oceans below.

*Some biblical allegations are not only erroneous but have been fatal to their adherents.

For instance, Mark16:17-18 says: "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;.... They shall take up serpents and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them."

Not many believing Christians are willing to drink poisons or handle rattlesnakes to prove the Bible's accuracy, although some have tried. Many individuals have died because they put their trust in the Biblical injunction to pray ("And the prayer of faith shall save the sick," James 5:13-15) and, not wanting to make Asa's mistake (2 Chron. 16:12), shunned physicians.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22833 Nov 28, 2013
*The unscientific aspect of biblical teachings is also shown in the fact that many mythological creatures are spoken of as if they were, in fact, real. The manner in which they are described and the context within which this occurs show biblical writers felt they actually existed. Some of the prominent examples are:

cockatrices (Jer. 8:17, Isa. 11:8 59:5),
unicorns (Deut. 33:17, Psalms 22:21. 29:6, Job 39:9-10),
satyrs (Isa. 34:14, 13:21)
fiery serpents (Num. 21:6),
and flying serpents (Isa. 14:29, 30:6).

*One should note the hundreds of miracles contained within the Bible. Perhaps more than anything else they prove the Book lacks scientific validity. Miracles, by definition, have supernatural causes, and science, by definition, doesn't work with the supernatural. In order to avoid an extended discussion as to the existence of miracles, I will simply say that nearly all reputable scientists deny their existence and feel all events have a natural, material cause. Believers in miracles can never produce a supernatural event when asked to do so. Challenges are invariably left unanswered.

Any book claiming a woman turned into a pillar of salt (Gen. 19:26), the sun went backward 10 degrees on the sundial (2 Kings 20:11), and quails came from the sea (Num. 11:31) is going to have great difficulty demonstrating its scientific precision to any reasonably scientific mind.

"Virtually every child has heard about the parting of the Red Sea, the whale swallowing Jonah, the stick turning into a snake, and Jesus' walking on water. In fact, many people begin their critical analysis of the Bible by doubting the authenticity of these stories. Logic, reason, and skepticism accompany a scientific mentality; not one of faith and uncritical belief.

In recent years the conflict between science and the Bible has become especially pronounced with respect to the struggle between evolution and Creationism. The battle has been, and is being, fought in many forms--e.g. the schools, libraries, and courts. BE will not enter the fray because the subject matter not only lies outside the Bible per se, but is highly technical and of little interest to many people. Few scientists and even fewer laymen really understand the intricacies of all the sciences that are involved in a really thorough discussion of evolution. Paleontology, geology, biology, astronomy, archeology, chemistry, and anthropology are some of the disciplines one must comprehend in order to proceed wisely. However, it is interesting to note how the struggle between science and the Bible has evolved.

Originally, scientific findings were denounced as blasphemous lies. But as science has expanded and the evidence has mounted, many apologists have adopted a more realistic stance. They have increasingly rewritten the Bible by either changing literal statements to figurative meanings or alleging, "What the Bible really meant was..." For example, they assert the seven days of Creation weren't really days; they were eras or epochs. When the Bible describes miracles it doesn't mean to imply they exist. It is merely relating instances in which naive people were fooled by trickery and other mechanisms.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22834 Nov 28, 2013
With characteristic wisdom, Ingersoll took note of this slow evolutionary change: "The church disputed every step, denied every fact, resorted to every device that cunning could suggest or ingenuity execute, but the conflict could not be maintained. The Bible, so far as geology was concerned, was in danger of being driven from the earth. Beaten in the open field, the church began to equivocate, to evade, and to give new meanings to inspired words. Finally, falsehood having failed to harmonize the guesses of barbarians with the discoveries of genius, the leading churchmen suggested that the Bible was not written to teach astronomy, was not written to teach geology, and that it was not a scientific book,....(Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 11, p.220)."

"In matters of fact, the Bible has ceased to be a regarded as a standard. Science has succeeded in breaking the chains of theology. A few years ago, Science endeavored to show that it was not inconsistent with the Bible. The tables have been turned, now, Religion is endeavoring to prove that the Bible is not inconsistent with science. The standard has been changed." (Ibid. Vol. 2, p. 242).

"In other words, the standard has been changed; the ancient is measured by the modern, where the literal statement in the Bible does not agree with modern discoveries, they do not change the discoveries, but give new meanings to the old account. We are not now endeavoring to reconcile science with the Bible, but to reconcile the Bible with science." (Ibid. Vol. 8, p. 151).

Only staunch fundamentalists continue trying to erase the handwriting on the wall. In the 5th chapter of Daniel, Belshazzar didn't try to erase the unpleasant handwriting on the wall. He listened and acted accordingly. One would think believers in the Bible would learn from his experience. In summary, the Bible is not inerrant with respect to science. Many statements reflect the era in which they were written and assertions to the contrary are weak at best.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#22835 Nov 28, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
TRANSLATION: My shit doesn't stink and I should be in heaven advising God about what to do with the likes of you. How dare you question me.
Translation provided by His Holiness Reverend Alan.
Wow! That's a perfect translation.

Home run!!!!

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22836 Nov 28, 2013
randy andy wrote:
<quoted text>I do and its exactly that! bible babble crap and you my friend are a gullible bible babble sucker who thinks the bible is your gift of life. Goodluck! i live by my own rules.
KiMare does not live by the Bible's rules. Let us make no mistake about that. KiMare REFUSES to obey Jesus and the Bible. KiMare wants other people to obey the Bible while he gives God the finger.

Here is an example of where KiMare tells Jesus to go fuck himself:

Jesus: John 14:15 KJV, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Since KiMare REFUSES to keep Jesus' commandments what can we conclude except he hates him!

First, a true follower of Jesus would have to be extremely poor--as poor as the proverbial churchmouse. The Bible makes this quite clear:

"...none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up everything he has" Luke 14:33
"If you want to be perfect, go and sell all you have and give the money to the poor and you will have riches in heaven" Matt. 19:21
"Sell your possessions and give alms" Luke 12:33
"But give what is in your cups and plates to the poor, and everything will be clean for you" Luke 11:41
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt,.... But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven.... for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" Matt. 6:19-21
"How hardly shall they that have riches enter to the kingdom of God" Mark 10:23
"Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matt. 19:23-24
A certain ruler told Jesus that he had obeyed all the commandments from his youth up. But, Jesus said, "Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me" Luke 18:22, Mark 10:21

Paul said, "For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse, in order that I may gain Christ" (Phil. 3:8 RSV)

KiMare could care less about gaining Christ all he cares about is anal sex.
countryboy19

Pearl, MS

#22837 Nov 28, 2013
GentlestGiant wrote:
Christianity is nothing more than a bunch of lies and contradictions piled on top of each other. Jesus and the bible preach about love and tolerance, but his mindless lemmings we call worshippers bring about wars to make others believe in him. God gives us free will, but he forces you to follow him or else burn forever in hell.
Christianity has done nothing more than hold our country's progress back with laws and orders, telling we can't do this, but can only do that. According to the bible, you're suppose to stone your relatives to death for joining another religion. According to the bible, women are nothing more than objects for men. Why aren't you enforcing the bible you zealots punch so much? "WE ARE, WE HATE FAGS"
And if you're one of the lemmings who think gay people are going to burn in hell for having FREE WILL and a right to practice what they want and like, you're no more than a fool, and it'll be people like you who'll be judged by your beloved invisible man when its your time.
they will go to hell its a sin! But I agree I will not preach hate... I preach love for one another and acceptance but I live my life the way the bible says and set an example to follow

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22838 Nov 28, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
That's air conditioning. Never mind, I like days like today better than July weather.
No I don't actually live on Botany Bay, but Brighton's nice. I made that location because the Yanks on here always call me a convict.
:D
Have either of you been to Punch Bowl, NSW outside Sidney? I stayed with a friend who lived down the street from the Punch Bowl Baptist Church. The weather was a bit chilly for my taste. I really preferred driving north into Queensland and staying in Sunshine Coast. I have quite a nice collection of citrus and avocado here in California and was amazed at how much sweeter the citrus is in Australia. Of course most Californians prefer the blend of sweet and tart in our oranges which is why most of America's table citrus comes from California and most of our orange juice comes from Florida.

I remember the Hoong Cheong Restaurant on The Boulevarde, but the food was not like what we have here in San Francisco's Chinatown. We even found a Dim Sum restaurant but my friend refused to eat Chinese food for breakfast.

We tried to find a Mexican restaurant but we never did.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22839 Nov 28, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
How very true.
Thank you. I repair broken human beings and KiMare is quite the challenge.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22840 Nov 28, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow! That's a perfect translation.
Home run!!!!
Well, thank you. Hugs and kisses to you!!!

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#22841 Nov 28, 2013
countryboy19 wrote:
<quoted text> they will go to hell its a sin! But I agree I will not preach hate... I preach love for one another and acceptance but I live my life the way the bible says and set an example to follow
You are such a liar. You do not do what the Bible says because if you did you would have sold your computer and given the money to the poor.

You may have parts inside you that love but there are just as many that hate. I'd say it is 50-50 with you. Fifty percent love and fifty percent hate.

The example you have set is to ignore clear biblical commands.

I'll post them again so we can watch you squirm and make up nonsenses as to why they do not apply to you:

"...none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up everything he has" Luke 14:33
"If you want to be perfect, go and sell all you have and give the money to the poor and you will have riches in heaven" Matt. 19:21
"Sell your possessions and give alms" Luke 12:33
"But give what is in your cups and plates to the poor, and everything will be clean for you" Luke 11:41
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt,.... But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven.... for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" Matt. 6:19-21
"How hardly shall they that have riches enter to the kingdom of God" Mark 10:23
"Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" Matt. 19:23-24
A certain ruler told Jesus that he had obeyed all the commandments from his youth up. But, Jesus said, "Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me" Luke 18:22, Mark 10:21

Paul said, "For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as refuse, in order that I may gain Christ" (Phil. 3:8 RSV)

John 14:15 KJV, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Clearly you do not love Jesus.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#22842 Nov 28, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. I repair broken human beings and KiMare is quite the challenge.
Good luck with that.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#22843 Nov 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
As you know, documentation has many positions. On the very same issue.
Which is why when I point out how your documentation conflicts with the passage, I am using the basic tenet of hermeneutics; context.
You are so very far removed from context that your biblical illiteracy becomes your identity. Hermeneutics? You don't know what is hermeneutics!

You have never used a word study in your opinions. You never speak of references that would define, biblically what a NT author references. You take out of context one opinionated idea and make that the context. Not once have you presented any of the tools of hermeneutics.

All you do is present your opinion. As if what you read is God's Word. When in fact, what you read is your word, not God's Word.

I, nor anyone else, cannot even begin to have a discourse with your opinion. Your glass house cannot, will not accept any other interpretation than what defines your faith. You cover your ears like a child screaming, "I can't hear you!"

I can present you a word study; the context of a chapter, the book; references to other biblical passages; Christian thought, etc., and you will call all that literacy, silly.

Your defence is a bunch of bull.

You make yourself look like a fool when your biblical literacy shows that you are biblically illiterate.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#22844 Nov 28, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are interested in why it is that you find yourself alive and kicking on the surface of the planet earth you need to experience yourself, you own life and not the life surrounding you. "Life" is something outside of ourselves and we can do nothing about it, nor should we. The insanity of ordinary life is exactly how it needs to be for cosmic purposes. How ever it is possible to go against "life" and get something for yourself.
To do that one must start to pay attention to what is going on inside oneself; "the kingdom of heaven is within," so, therefore, the kingdom of hell is without.
You are going to serve cosmic purposes whether you get something for yourself or not.
I don't disagree with what you say I am just as illiterate as KiMare when it comes to what you are trying to have a conversation with through your understanding of oneself. From your perspective, I am lost. I do recognise what you say but not from the workings of the brain.

Since: Jun 13

Anchorage, AK

#22845 Nov 28, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
I would suggest it is not important to be concerned about any Creator quite yet, but, instead to reawaken a childhood dream to know what you are and what you are for.
What have you done for this temporal existence that matters to you?
"temporal existence" is suffering, needless unnecessary suffering. If your temporal existence matters to you I would think you would want to stop suffering.
You have an i in you that accepts what ever happens, but you have another that is terrified and does not accept what ever happens. Can you really let one little i speak for all the other i's as well as itself? And where are you in all of this?
Rev, I get what you say. I have come to believe that what we become after death is what we were before death. Simply returning to God. I have no control over death and it will come today, tomorrow. That time is unknown. When that time comes I do not care about.

Suffering, yes, God is a God of suffering as is evidenced in the history of mankind. That is the tragedy of our lives. What we do can minimalize suffering. It is a struggle everyday, personally and communally.
ok now

Barnsley, UK

#22846 Nov 28, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Good luck with that.
ass whipe of bollocks, that's my Inviable god shit on a six pence and then spend it
ok now

Barnsley, UK

#22847 Nov 28, 2013
my invisable god is better than your invisable GOD
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