Homosexuality and the Bible

Aug 15, 2011 Full story: www.smh.com.au 29,661

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

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“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22815 Nov 28, 2013
randy andy wrote:
<quoted text>I do and its exactly that! bible babble crap and you my friend are a gullible bible babble sucker who thinks the bible is your gift of life. Goodluck! i live by my own rules.
Oooookkaaayyy mate...

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#22816 Nov 28, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Good shot, Andy!
BTW is it really hot up the Gold Coast? It was scorching here today. R U near the beach?
Ah, birds of a feather...

Smirk.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#22817 Nov 28, 2013
akopen wrote:
My daughter came home one day from school and said that she did not understand a poem. She asked me to read it and interpret what the poem was saying. She also said that the class was given this poem three weeks ago to read and that they would be asked to explain the poem to the class.
I told my daughter that we would need the big dictionary. Reading the poem left both of us scratching our heads trying to understand it. So, every significant word was looked up and defined using the archaic meaning. Putting those words into the poem brought out the meaning. She was skeptical about the meaning and did not think that I had helped her out.
The next day was when the class had to decide what the poem meant. The class was broken up into groups. Each group had a spokes person. After every spokes person had explained the poem the teacher ask if anyone had a different interpretation. This is when my daughter stood up and explained what we had decided the poem to mean. The teacher was amazed because my daughter nailed the meaning of the poem.
I taught her a valuable lesson of how to interpret what was said a long time ago.
That is an example of how to interpret ancient writings. There is more to interpreting and translating. All those ways amounts to what is called, hermeneutics.
No literal reading is an interpretation but it may be considered an opinion.
Touching story well said. Thanks for sharing.
alison

Bolton, UK

#22818 Nov 28, 2013
I like smack bible bashers the religious fks up there ass and pull there under pants down in front of children and say heh I S THIS YOUR WIMPY ONE INCH PRIVATE GOD......GOOD NIGHT LIMP BISCUIT

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22819 Nov 28, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Rev., I don't. My only understanding of what you speak of comes from you.
Understanding, real understanding comes from how you experience yourself.

It is strange you have no experience with the ideas I bring because they are some of the oldest ideas on the earth. All real religions are based on them. Also it is important to point out that they are not my ideas because if they were they would be as valuable as say, KiMares ideas which is to say, of no value at all.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22820 Nov 28, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
The philosophy of life, the experience of life. If man perceives God as love then modeling life after that perception is what man's spirit is about. Not about what some Christian religion says about salvation.
If you are interested in why it is that you find yourself alive and kicking on the surface of the planet earth you need to experience yourself, you own life and not the life surrounding you. "Life" is something outside of ourselves and we can do nothing about it, nor should we. The insanity of ordinary life is exactly how it needs to be for cosmic purposes. How ever it is possible to go against "life" and get something for yourself.

To do that one must start to pay attention to what is going on inside oneself; "the kingdom of heaven is within," so, therefore, the kingdom of hell is without.

You are going to serve cosmic purposes whether you get something for yourself or not.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22821 Nov 28, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm along for the ride. Bull-shit gets in the way.
You do not have an "I", you have a multitude of little i's each pretending it is the "Master I" which does not exist in unprepared beings who do not pay for their lives.

So which i is along for the ride and can you tell it apart from your other i's which are not along for the ride?

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22822 Nov 28, 2013
akopen wrote:
<quoted text>
At this stage of my life, understanding, I suspect that returning to the Creator is beyond my comprehension. I accept whatever happens. Not that it will matter. What matters to me is my temporal existence.
I would suggest it is not important to be concerned about any Creator quite yet, but, instead to reawaken a childhood dream to know what you are and what you are for.

What have you done for this temporal existence that matters to you?

"temporal existence" is suffering, needless unnecessary suffering. If your temporal existence matters to you I would think you would want to stop suffering.

You have an i in you that accepts what ever happens, but you have another that is terrified and does not accept what ever happens. Can you really let one little i speak for all the other i's as well as itself? And where are you in all of this?

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22823 Nov 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
you need to go to a Dr.!
pot/kettle

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22824 Nov 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
First men rejecting women to have sex with men are not homosexual, now promiscuity evaporates orientation!
Because you are divorced from the reality of life on earth KiMare you do not have an accurate view of what modern human beings are as they exist today. You speak as if the label homosexual means something or tells us something about an individual.

It is practically impossible to keep correcting you because you do not know what a human being is nor what its possibilities are.

It is madness what you do being concerned about the mechanical behaviour of individuals while you have not a care in the world about your own self.

I believed you claimed you had a soul, what have you done for it lately? The way you neglect it one might as well assume that you had no such thing.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22825 Nov 28, 2013
akopen wrote:
Wishing all a great Thanksgiving.
Me too!:)

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22826 Nov 28, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are clueless on purpose, Kim.
Unfortunately, you don't understand your own lessons.
KiMare is a broken, crippled and defective being. There are billions on the earth just like him.

KiMare has nothing with which to understand anything let alone the "lessons" he preaches to others. KiMare would have to admit that he does not know anything and he can not find anything in him with the humility to admit as much.

People who insist they know something can not learn.

KiMare is like the little boy who throws rocks at frogs. He might enjoy it and have a good time but it is bad for the frogs.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22827 Nov 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Why can ak and you have the only right interpretation?
And if God is still speaking, who says I'm not hearing His thoughts instead of you?
Who knows?
I know.

If there was a God there would be no interpretation, right or otherwise by anyone. There would be universal understanding and the only normal activity would be compliance.

Conscious beings do not behave as you do KiMare. If there was a God and you could hear it, your behaviour would be drastically different from what it is today. You are living proof that should there be a God that you do not hear it.

There is a Universal Objective Conscience in the Universe that is the same for all beings living on all planets through out the whole entire Universe, but you can not listening therefore you can not hear. So that means that what comes out of your mouth is no different from what comes out of your ass.

You probably tell yourself I say that to be mean and insulting, just to get even, but you would be wrong. I say that because it is the truth that you can verify for yourself.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#22828 Nov 28, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
KiMare is a broken, crippled and defective being. There are billions on the earth just like him.
KiMare has nothing with which to understand anything let alone the "lessons" he preaches to others. KiMare would have to admit that he does not know anything and he can not find anything in him with the humility to admit as much.
People who insist they know something can not learn.
KiMare is like the little boy who throws rocks at frogs. He might enjoy it and have a good time but it is bad for the frogs.
How very true.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22829 Nov 28, 2013
randy andy wrote:
<quoted text>i think that this poor sod must have copped it up the cracker during his school days and now realises how wring this was, even though he may have enjoyed it!
There is nothing wrong with gay sex. Never has been. The biggest problem people who do not do gay sex very often is the fact that they enjoyed it and people LOVE to suffer and feel bad about them selves.

This is why KiMare adds to the suffering of the Universe; he tries to make people feel bad about enjoying recreational sex and that is objectively wrong. KiMare would better spend his time looking into his own defects instead of trying to convince other people that their peaceful sexual desires with other consenting adults are somehow a defect. They are not, KiMare is a defective being; an evil liar and he should be ashamed of himself for indulging his base instincts like this. Normal people do not do what KiMare has devoted his life to.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22830 Nov 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone can 'document'. I didn't need to.
TRANSLATION: My shit doesn't stink and I should be in heaven advising God about what to do with the likes of you. How dare you question me.

Translation provided by His Holiness Reverend Alan.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22831 Nov 28, 2013
randy andy wrote:
<quoted text>There you go again!!! You say a lot, but you tell me nothing. At least nothing i already know about plus ss relationships are peoples choice. adults who are old enough to make choices for themselves and no by some old testy you seem to abide by its very word. Relax and stop this bs bible bable crap you continue to vomit forth from your mouth!
Usually 'randy andy' one must quote the babble crap to prove to the biblicists that it really is crap. If they never see the crap they will believe the Bible is the holy word of God.

Why, Smile, here is some of the crapola right now!:

2 Kings 18:27, " ...that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?"

KiMare used to read that to children in Sunday School.

Smile.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22832 Nov 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You call science 'bible babble'?
The question of whether or not the Bible is scientifically valid has been debated for hundreds of years by critics and supporters alike. Biblicists have contended the book not only supports science but contains many statements that are ahead of their time. The Bible supposedly has great scientific wisdom and only now are we beginning to realize as much. Critics, such as myself, believe the Bible is its own worst enemy. From our perspective there are more than enough statements contained therein to forestall any claims to scientific precision. Indeed, many statements clearly belong in the realm of mythology and folklore, while others are simply false. Some are so vague it's difficult to know what is meant, so naturally, biblicists choose the more scientifically oriented interpretation. Those believing the Bible to be scientifically precise and wise beyond its years should read, digest, and remember the following assertions contained within its covers:

The bat is a bird (Lev. 11:19, Deut. 14:11, 18);
Some fowls are four-footed (Lev. 11:20-21);
Some creeping insects have four legs.(Lev. 11:22-23);
Hares chew the cud (Lev. 11:6);
Conies chew the cud (Lev. 11:5);
Camels don't divide the hoof (Lev. 11:4);
The earth was formed out of and by means of water (2 Peter 3:5 RSV);
The earth rest on pillars (1 Sam. 2:8);
The earth won't be moved (1Chron. 16:30);
A hare does not divide the hoof (Deut. 14:7);
The rainbow is not as old as rain and sunshine (Gen. 9:13);
A mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds and grows into the greatest of all shrubs (Matt. 13:31-32 RSV);
Turtles have voices (Song of Sol. 2:12);
The earth has ends or edges (Job 37:3);
The earth has four corners (Isa. 11:12, Rev. 7:1);
Some 4-legged animals fly (Lev. 11:21);
The world's language didn't evolve but appeared suddenly (Gen. 11:6-9; and
A fetus can understand speech (Luke 1:44).

Some statements are so vague that apologists can often evade dilemmas by creative rationalizations. As Ingersoll said: "If the holy writer uses general terms, an ingenious theologian can harmonize a seemingly preposterous statement with the most obdurate fact.(Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 5, p. 37). For instance, Gen. 1:7-8 says: "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament;... And god called the firmament Heaven." Realizing the scientific implausibility inherent in this narration, some apologists attempt to portray the firmament as nothing more than the atmosphere separating the moist clouds above from the oceans below.

*Some biblical allegations are not only erroneous but have been fatal to their adherents.

For instance, Mark16:17-18 says: "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils;.... They shall take up serpents and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them."

Not many believing Christians are willing to drink poisons or handle rattlesnakes to prove the Bible's accuracy, although some have tried. Many individuals have died because they put their trust in the Biblical injunction to pray ("And the prayer of faith shall save the sick," James 5:13-15) and, not wanting to make Asa's mistake (2 Chron. 16:12), shunned physicians.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22833 Nov 28, 2013
*The unscientific aspect of biblical teachings is also shown in the fact that many mythological creatures are spoken of as if they were, in fact, real. The manner in which they are described and the context within which this occurs show biblical writers felt they actually existed. Some of the prominent examples are:

cockatrices (Jer. 8:17, Isa. 11:8 59:5),
unicorns (Deut. 33:17, Psalms 22:21. 29:6, Job 39:9-10),
satyrs (Isa. 34:14, 13:21)
fiery serpents (Num. 21:6),
and flying serpents (Isa. 14:29, 30:6).

*One should note the hundreds of miracles contained within the Bible. Perhaps more than anything else they prove the Book lacks scientific validity. Miracles, by definition, have supernatural causes, and science, by definition, doesn't work with the supernatural. In order to avoid an extended discussion as to the existence of miracles, I will simply say that nearly all reputable scientists deny their existence and feel all events have a natural, material cause. Believers in miracles can never produce a supernatural event when asked to do so. Challenges are invariably left unanswered.

Any book claiming a woman turned into a pillar of salt (Gen. 19:26), the sun went backward 10 degrees on the sundial (2 Kings 20:11), and quails came from the sea (Num. 11:31) is going to have great difficulty demonstrating its scientific precision to any reasonably scientific mind.

"Virtually every child has heard about the parting of the Red Sea, the whale swallowing Jonah, the stick turning into a snake, and Jesus' walking on water. In fact, many people begin their critical analysis of the Bible by doubting the authenticity of these stories. Logic, reason, and skepticism accompany a scientific mentality; not one of faith and uncritical belief.

In recent years the conflict between science and the Bible has become especially pronounced with respect to the struggle between evolution and Creationism. The battle has been, and is being, fought in many forms--e.g. the schools, libraries, and courts. BE will not enter the fray because the subject matter not only lies outside the Bible per se, but is highly technical and of little interest to many people. Few scientists and even fewer laymen really understand the intricacies of all the sciences that are involved in a really thorough discussion of evolution. Paleontology, geology, biology, astronomy, archeology, chemistry, and anthropology are some of the disciplines one must comprehend in order to proceed wisely. However, it is interesting to note how the struggle between science and the Bible has evolved.

Originally, scientific findings were denounced as blasphemous lies. But as science has expanded and the evidence has mounted, many apologists have adopted a more realistic stance. They have increasingly rewritten the Bible by either changing literal statements to figurative meanings or alleging, "What the Bible really meant was..." For example, they assert the seven days of Creation weren't really days; they were eras or epochs. When the Bible describes miracles it doesn't mean to imply they exist. It is merely relating instances in which naive people were fooled by trickery and other mechanisms.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#22834 Nov 28, 2013
With characteristic wisdom, Ingersoll took note of this slow evolutionary change: "The church disputed every step, denied every fact, resorted to every device that cunning could suggest or ingenuity execute, but the conflict could not be maintained. The Bible, so far as geology was concerned, was in danger of being driven from the earth. Beaten in the open field, the church began to equivocate, to evade, and to give new meanings to inspired words. Finally, falsehood having failed to harmonize the guesses of barbarians with the discoveries of genius, the leading churchmen suggested that the Bible was not written to teach astronomy, was not written to teach geology, and that it was not a scientific book,....(Ingersoll's Works, Vol. 11, p.220)."

"In matters of fact, the Bible has ceased to be a regarded as a standard. Science has succeeded in breaking the chains of theology. A few years ago, Science endeavored to show that it was not inconsistent with the Bible. The tables have been turned, now, Religion is endeavoring to prove that the Bible is not inconsistent with science. The standard has been changed." (Ibid. Vol. 2, p. 242).

"In other words, the standard has been changed; the ancient is measured by the modern, where the literal statement in the Bible does not agree with modern discoveries, they do not change the discoveries, but give new meanings to the old account. We are not now endeavoring to reconcile science with the Bible, but to reconcile the Bible with science." (Ibid. Vol. 8, p. 151).

Only staunch fundamentalists continue trying to erase the handwriting on the wall. In the 5th chapter of Daniel, Belshazzar didn't try to erase the unpleasant handwriting on the wall. He listened and acted accordingly. One would think believers in the Bible would learn from his experience. In summary, the Bible is not inerrant with respect to science. Many statements reflect the era in which they were written and assertions to the contrary are weak at best.

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