Fuels battle heats up as Congress mulls law change

Apr 21, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Des Moines Register

The battle between U.S. ethanol producers and oil companies has reached a turning point, with the winners poised to gain an advantage over the future of the country's energy mix and the losers forced to cede profits and jobs to their bitter rival.

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Since: Mar 13

Alexandria, VA

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#1
Apr 21, 2013
 

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This is not a battle between gasoline and ethanol, this is a battle between the gasoline industry's lobbyists and the ethanol industry's lobbyists for who can milk the public teat more. Thy should BOTH lose.

Nuclear Ammonia - nuclear ammonia - nuclear ammonia, come one folks, join the chant!:)
Bernard Forand

Fort Myers, FL

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Apr 22, 2013
 

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Kiteman fails to realize Fission is merely substituting one Toxic fuel for a more potent Toxic fuel. Presently less than a 65 years since it first was introduced and yet not one living organism is not without the pollution of radioactivity. Compounding accumulation of radioactivity to the Top Of The Food Consumer!
Now why not Fusion? We have one that produces enough energy daily in a small area, say a desert, to provide the entire world with Non Toxic Energy. We call it the SUN!
DESERTEC
Arab, African American deserts can very well be the new glut for energy source. Consider that with a mere 35,000 square miles of barren desert, it can provide the entire planet with its energy requirements.
Presently such an adventure is being studied to do just that. Europe is pushing for a Desertec plan to embrace solar thermal collectors in North Africa and Southern Europe. Heated water to provide the energy to the dynamos to feed their nations. Goal at present is to achieve 15 to 20 percent of Europe’s electrical needs by mid century.
Logistical barriers, from the deserts to the cooler Northern regions, are being addressed by Franz Trieb, German engineer who is responsible for the initial studies on Desertec.
One strategy he proposes is to gather solar and wind as well as thermal energies into a large storage tanks of molten salt.
[ Giant Capacitors!] to be tapped into as demand requires 24/7.
Control on distribution is regulated by a central command system.
Representatives of the Moroccan and Egyptian government have publicly expressed support for Desertec.
Solar Thermal Collectors [Solar Parabolic] are more efficient than solar panels. Infrastructures required to logistically serve Northern Europe, would require subsides to make them competitive to oil and coal. Considering that governments around the world contribute $312 billion in subsides to fossil fuel industries and only $57 billion to renewable, is an area of corporatist political biases. One that calls for a solution. To suggest or imply that we need to prioritize our wealth investments into a depreciating, limited, polluting cost systems is beyond reason. With complete non polluting renewable system at the ready for deployment. Increase in productivity of employment and an added benefit in reducing negative health issues through out the world and all species.
Deployment of the magnitude will take years as we transfer our energy base and the required technologies upgrades to our present infrastructure to increase efficiency in use of all energies and communicational information.
Joseph Romm, a physicist at the Center For American Progress, emphasizes the vast out lay and importance of the infrastructure. Solar Thermal Plants of the magnitude of 500 megawatts are presently under construction in Quarzazate, Morocco. As these plants come to maturity additional plants will go under constructions in various barren desert regions of the world. Infrastructure to address the distributions will be of a paramount quest for our present undertaking.
USA has its barren land and deserts not only for New York but for the nation.
The GREEN Is Bursting Out!!

Since: Mar 13

Alexandria, VA

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#3
Apr 22, 2013
 

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Toxic is a relative term. Solar energy kills some 9000 people every year in the US alone. Nukes, none. Which is more toxic?

And it turns out that in fact, Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers can ELIMINATE the troublesome radioactive wastes from both the current nuclear power plant "Spent Nuclear Fuel" AND the radioactive mine tailings from building windmills. LFTRs shift the timing a bit but in the long run REDUCE the radio-toxicity of the world. It is too bad that Bernard doesn't study a bit before shooting off his mouth. ;)
Bernard Forand

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#5
Apr 23, 2013
 

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KitemanSA wrote:
Toxic is a relative term. Solar energy kills some 9000 people every year in the US alone. Nukes, none. Which is more toxic?
And it turns out that in fact, Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers can ELIMINATE the troublesome radioactive wastes from both the current nuclear power plant "Spent Nuclear Fuel" AND the radioactive mine tailings from building windmills. LFTRs shift the timing a bit but in the long run REDUCE the radio-toxicity of the world. It is too bad that Bernard doesn't study a bit before shooting off his mouth. ;)
Kiteman states 9000 per year due to Solar Energy? LOL Sunburned to death? Link, link. Gotta see this one.
No Nuke deaths? Give us a break? I won’t even mention Japan; Opps I just did. I will remind you that the rate of Bone Cancer has risen since the introduction of Strontium 90 that is produced by atomic fission energy plants. World wide contamination of radioactivity is presently still accumulating increasing various form of cancers. Are we looking at millions per year of deaths due to radioactivity pollutions accelerations of cancers? Making such irresponsible statements as this comment only serves to illuminate the desperations of the Nuke industries. Now resorting to propaganda. Shame on you…

Since: Mar 13

Alexandria, VA

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#6
Apr 23, 2013
 

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Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>
Kiteman states 9000 per year due to Solar Energy? LOL Sunburned to death? Link, link. Gotta see this one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_cancer See the last two sentances of the opening segment.
Bernard Forand wrote:
No Nuke deaths? Give us a break?
You don't read too well, do you. I specified "in the US". So what do you do? You jump to Japan.
Bernard Forand wrote:
I won’t even mention Japan; Opps I just did. I will remind you that the rate of Bone Cancer has risen since the introduction of Strontium 90 that is produced by atomic fission energy plants.
Wow, now I KNOW you are stretching! There has been no release of Sr-90 from any US nuclear power plant EVER. You must be thinking of all those atomic bomb tests.
Bernard Forand wrote:
World wide contamination of radioactivity is presently still accumulating increasing various form of cancers.
Actually, the REAL data suggests that the very slight increase in radiation is DECREASING the cancer total from the chemical assault from things like coal fired power plants. The effect is known as hormesis, check it out.
Bernard Forand wrote:
Are we looking at millions per year of deaths due to radioactivity pollutions accelerations of cancers?
Those who make it their life long business to know say no. There may be s much as about ten thousand from Chernobyl, thought the best estimate is more like 4000. And Fukushima may result in several hundreds, fewer than were killed by the over-zelous evacuation.
Bernard Forand wrote:
Making such irresponsible statements as this comment only serves to illuminate the desperations of the Nuke industries. Now resorting to propaganda. Shame on you…
Look at the pot calling the kettle black. So far, FEAR of radiation seems to have killed more people than radiation itself. There were a large number of abortions in Greece due to FEAR of Chernobyl radiation. There are suicides and abortions in Japan due to FEAR of Fukushima radiation. And folks like you are part of that killing system.
Please find out about Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers (a.k.a. LFT Reactors) before spreading your manure again.
Bernard Forand

Fort Myers, FL

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#7
Apr 27, 2013
 

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KitemanSA wrote:
<quoted text> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_cancer See the last two sentances of the opening segment.
<quoted text> You don't read too well, do you. I specified "in the US". So what do you do? You jump to Japan.
<quoted text> Wow, now I KNOW you are stretching! There has been no release of Sr-90 from any US nuclear power plant EVER. You must be thinking of all those atomic bomb tests.
<quoted text> Actually, the REAL data suggests that the very slight increase in radiation is DECREASING the cancer total from the chemical assault from things like coal fired power plants. The effect is known as hormesis, check it out.
<quoted text> Those who make it their life long business to know say no. There may be s much as about ten thousand from Chernobyl, thought the best estimate is more like 4000. And Fukushima may result in several hundreds, fewer than were killed by the over-zelous evacuation.
<quoted text> Look at the pot calling the kettle black. So far, FEAR of radiation seems to have killed more people than radiation itself. There were a large number of abortions in Greece due to FEAR of Chernobyl radiation. There are suicides and abortions in Japan due to FEAR of Fukushima radiation. And folks like you are part of that killing system.
Please find out about Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers (a.k.a. LFT Reactors) before spreading your manure again.
Kiteman Wikipedia is not a dependable source. For all I know you wrote the definition there.
Then I jump to Japan? I used Japan as an example of how radioactivity is continuously increasing due to the multitude of accidents and or deliberate scenarios.{ Guess how much Strontium 90 was released in that last one accident, that will distribute itself through out the world ? Adding to Chernobyl’s little accident. That Strontium 90 has a ˝ life of 29.8 years and is man made, for all the natural strontium was depleted, millions of years ago, if not more like billions of years. Presently Strontium 90 can be found in all living organisms through out the world. In every blade of grass to every human. Being of the calcium family it is considered a major component in the rise in our Bone Cancers including right here the good old USA.
Now I have only used Strontium 90 with a short shelf life as compared to say Radon with thousands of years.
Bomb testing in the USA; New Mexico primary cite. To this day a cancer map can be drawn depicting the spread of various cancers through our nation originating to the New Mexico cite.
Then off you go with callow rhetoric than more people have died from the fear of radiation! Seriously? Then off to derogatory remarks?
Try stepping outside and throw your arms open and embrace the warmth of sunshine with unlimited, non-toxic energy. Why do you even waste your time beating a dead radioactive horse?

Since: Mar 13

Alexandria, VA

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#8
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>
Then off you go with callow rhetoric than more people have died from the fear of radiation! Seriously? Then off to derogatory remarks?
Yes, seriously. And then off to remarks that can only be derogatory if the basis is true.

Since: Mar 13

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#9
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Torrent wrote:
<quoted text>Boy ...what a crock.
Tis indeed a crock of tasty pudding; well worth the trying! ;)

Since: Mar 13

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#11
Apr 27, 2013
 

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Not Really wrote:
<quoted text>Your information is bogus.....
Which part, the tasty or the pudding?
Bernard Forand

Fort Myers, FL

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#12
May 2, 2013
 

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KitemanSA wrote:
<quoted text> Which part, the tasty or the pudding?


Kiteman is as usual completely out of touch.
There are municipalities that have converted their vehicles for deliveries to electric and or methane. The golf cart is evolving. Presently here in the USA hydrogen is too expensive. Odd that the auto companies have on their drawing boards Hydrogen vehicles. Hmmm maybe the got wind of the new research that will soon be able to produce Hydrogen efficiently enough for Hydrogen Cell Vehicles. Perhaps Kiteman should take a trip to Iceland where they use their thermal energies to produce Hydrogen for their vehicles. Including delivery vehicles. Amazing that we have but scratched the surface on the R&D of Alternative Energy and the new innovations are accelerating faster than our manufacturers can keep pace with them. Many of those that have gone bankrupt is due to this rapid acceleration, that makes their products inferior to what the markets have evolved to. Hmm similar to how the computer evolved from the tube on to the transistors and then micro chips that we are presently enjoying. LOL even this is now going to be evolving for even greater efficiencies. Nano coupled with quantum systems will produce super computers for the average manufacturers to afford. Imagine what the evolution of our primitive Green Energy Gardens of today will be like. Our children will enjoy total instant independent energy directly from the sun. Sure beats waiting for Mother Nature to make a new supply of Toxic Fuel for us via the sun.
Once AGAIN Kiteman fails to answerer the question; “Why should we embrace another Toxic Fuel for another, when the Fusion reactor above our heads, produces in one day to provide all the energy the world requires for decades. Toxic far less than the pollution that Kiteman proposes for our children’s futures? A Toxic shill ?

Since: Mar 13

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#13
May 2, 2013
 

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Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>
There are municipalities that have converted their vehicles for deliveries to electric and or methane. The golf cart is evolving. Presently here in the USA hydrogen is too expensive. Odd that the auto companies have on their drawing boards Hydrogen vehicles. Hmmm maybe the got wind of the new research that will soon be able to produce Hydrogen efficiently enough for Hydrogen Cell Vehicles. Perhaps Kiteman should take a trip to Iceland where they use their thermal energies to produce Hydrogen for their vehicles. Including delivery vehicles.
Odd that BF seems to think I am somehow against alternative fuels. A simple reading of my OP would show that I proposed a viable alternative myself. Then BF provides us with a wonderful rendition of alternatives including "hydrogen vehicles" but doesn't seem to get that the safest densest way to store hydrogen is in the form of ammonia.
Bernard Forand wrote:
Amazing that we have but scratched the surface on the R&D of Alternative Energy and the new innovations are accelerating faster than our manufacturers can keep pace with them. Many of those that have gone bankrupt is due to this rapid acceleration, that makes their products inferior to what the markets have evolved to. Hmm similar to how the computer evolved from the tube on to the transistors and then micro chips that we are presently enjoying. LOL even this is now going to be evolving for even greater efficiencies. Nano coupled with quantum systems will produce super computers for the average manufacturers to afford. Imagine what the evolution of our primitive Green Energy Gardens of today will be like. Our children will enjoy total instant independent energy directly from the sun. Sure beats waiting for Mother Nature to make a new supply of Toxic Fuel for us via the sun.
Babble babble wha?
Bernard Forand wrote:
Once AGAIN Kiteman fails to answerer the question; “Why should we embrace another Toxic Fuel for another, when the Fusion reactor above our heads, produces in one day to provide all the energy the world requires for decades. Toxic far less than the pollution that Kiteman proposes for our children’s futures? A Toxic shill ?
Seems BF can't quite get that nuclear is less toxic than most energy forms and Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers are less toxic than all.
Oh, and by the way, Iceland's vaunted geothermal IS nuclear.
Bernard Forand

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#14
May 6, 2013
 

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KitemanSA wrote:
<quoted text> Odd that BF seems to think I am somehow against alternative fuels. A simple reading of my OP would show that I proposed a viable alternative myself. Then BF provides us with a wonderful rendition of alternatives including "hydrogen vehicles" but doesn't seem to get that the safest densest way to store hydrogen is in the form of ammonia.
<quoted text> Babble babble wha?
<quoted text> Seems BF can't quite get that nuclear is less toxic than most energy forms and Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers are less toxic than all.
Oh, and by the way, Iceland's vaunted geothermal IS nuclear.
Kiteman implies he has provided us with alternative energy! Radioactive toxic systems is NOT an alternative to TOXIC centralized systems.
Then goes on to embarrass himself by implying that Iceland produces Hydrogen from nuclear! Try Magana thermal energy.. Geo-Thermal is from the earths heat due to its internal heat source. Which technically due to radioactive elements reactions. Now if the terrorist or the robber barons which to exploit this then they are welcomed to it.

{Seems BF can't quite get that nuclear is less toxic than most energy forms and Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers are less toxic than all.
Oh, and by the way, Iceland's vaunted geothermal IS nuclear.}

Less toxic than most energy forms? Than MOST toxic systems.. what? The same toxic systems that originated from the black coaly, oily manufacturers? Now they want us to switch to a far more toxic energy. Their safety records is demonstrated through out the world, as being sorely lacking, for the measure, for their profits. Try Sunshine ?
Don’t think the Terrorist will buy that nonsense, as they make their plans for abduction of the radioactive elements. Which brings us back to “ That the general populace is not matured enough at present to incorporate radioactive fission as a source of energy.

Since: Mar 13

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#15
May 6, 2013
 

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Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>
Kiteman implies he has provided us with alternative energy! Radioactive toxic systems is NOT an alternative to TOXIC centralized systems.
Well, I guess that leaves coal, gas, and wind power out since all three result in more radio-toxic wastes per kWh produced than would Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors.

And you have a TRULY warped view of toxicity. Chemical toxins stay toxic forever. Radio-toxins stop being toxic after a time, typically the more toxic the SHORTER the time. Seems a GOOD thing to me.

So, LFTR powered ammonia is a great option.

Since: Mar 13

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#16
May 6, 2013
 

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Bernard Forand wrote:
Don’t think the Terrorist will buy that nonsense, as they make their plans for abduction of the radioactive elements. Which brings us back to “ That the general populace is not matured enough at present to incorporate radioactive fission as a source of energy.
OK, now we get to the heart of the matter. You hate people and are scared s#!tless to allow them to have anything you think MIGHT harm you. Go away little boy. Hide away in your fraidy cave. The boogey man might get you.
Bernard Forand

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#17
May 9, 2013
 

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KitemanSA wrote:
<quoted text> OK, now we get to the heart of the matter. You hate people and are scared s#!tless to allow them to have anything you think MIGHT harm you. Go away little boy. Hide away in your fraidy cave. The boogey man might get you.
Kiteman claims I’m afraid of TRUTH and yet my avatar is not hidden. My identity is not cowering behind some mediocre avatar. Ah but that paranoia is justified with right wing nuts. Truth is sorely lacking with them and they are in fear of their words. Perhaps to embarrassed to be ID’ed , to the trash they spew. Fear? HAH ! here am I in the open light. Kiteman is in the shadows in callow fear.
Perhaps with a few more years to mature and with a tad more wisdom he will come out of the shadows of his fears and embarrassments. From what I see there are those that realize your obvious callow nonsense on radioactivity. Now is reduced to dysfunctional rhetoric. Gardens of Green bursting out in through out the world. Here comes the Sunshine energy generation.

Since: Mar 13

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#18
May 14, 2013
 

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Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>
Kiteman claims I’m afraid of TRUTH and yet my avatar is not hidden. My identity is not cowering behind some mediocre avatar. Ah but that paranoia is justified with right wing nuts. Truth is sorely lacking with them and they are in fear of their words. Perhaps to embarrassed to be ID’ed , to the trash they spew. Fear? HAH ! here am I in the open light. Kiteman is in the shadows in callow fear.
Perhaps with a few more years to mature and with a tad more wisdom he will come out of the shadows of his fears and embarrassments. From what I see there are those that realize your obvious callow nonsense on radioactivity. Now is reduced to dysfunctional rhetoric. Gardens of Green bursting out in through out the world. Here comes the Sunshine energy generation.
A preference for privacy does not equated to the hatred and fear you exhibit toward people.
Bernard Forand

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#19
May 15, 2013
 

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KitemanSA wrote:
<quoted text> A preference for privacy does not equated to the hatred and fear you exhibit toward people.
Kiteman fails in his radioactive fueling argument and now resorts to derogatory dysfunctional antidotes. Once again with no proofs. Seeks to squirm away from the issues as he hides in the shadows throwing his venomous nonsense.
Now off on to another strategy to attack the Green Energy spectrums.
This is where Kiteman gets his facts. From a biased tabloid with no studies or actual science in researching the data they present. Similar to Kiteman. Hey was it not Kiteman that recently was promoting radioactive elements are good for you! Lost that argument and now seeks to bash the Green Energy spectrum. Fragrance of a Toxic fuel shill.

Save the Eagles International (STEI) issued a dire warning, providing detailed documentation proving that golden eagles and their nests are disappearing rapidly near wind farms across the U.S.
The group also blasted the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service for changing its mission from protecting wildlife to “catering to the interests of an industry” that is a “ruinous one to boot.”
&#65532;Eagle killed by wind turbineAlthough the studies focused on golden eagles, if no major action is taken, wind turbines' razor-sharp blades will also threaten the existence of other species, STEI predicts.

This from a biased article Then There will SOON be one out for Wolves back on the endangered list.“OR” the endangered desert turtles will SOON be on the endangered list. Gee isn’t that where they want to build a Parabolic Solar Array.??“OR” humans will SOON be on the endangered list due to Global Warming??“OR” the sky will SOONJ fall down!! For all we know this picture was staged. Razor Sharp Blades??? Five Eagles Nest missing?? Gee do you think they decided to move out or is the Global Warming getting to them. Fragrance of a coaly oily radioactive toxic fume is prevalent with some on this thread. Even the EPA bureaucrat can see through this farce and that’s saying something. Same as the turtles that were found to be dying off from the oily fumes of cities and vehicles. People just keep on moving nothing here but our “Chicken Little” Wonder if chicken little will SOON be extinct. Perhaps with a tad more education. Should we dismantle our educational system for “Chicken Little”?
Hmmm Birds fly into planes and kill people… Hmmm

Since: Mar 13

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#20
May 15, 2013
 

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So now BF presumes he is omniscient enough to know what I have read and presumes to know that it is "biased".

He then follows this with the worst of straw-man tripe.

Then he babbles something about moving out and "Global Warming" and fragrance of "coaly oily radioactive toxic fume" ... What is he babbling about?

Does he fear Global Warming? Then certainly he wants a power source with the lowest possible carbon footprint. This desire is BEST filled by Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers (LFTRs).
Does he want fewer coaly, oily fumes? This desire is BEST filled by LFTRs.
Does he want less radio-active waste? Surprisingly, this desire is ALSO best filled by LFTRs, since they burn/destroy radioactive waste.
Does he DISbelieve the three statements above? Probably. Should he be interested in the possibilities suggested? Certainly. Will he check out said possibilities? Unlikely. Seems all he REALLY wants is to shoot off his mouth and be the "grand poobah" know-it-all of the Topix.
Too bad. We have the same ends, but he doesn't have the means.
Bernard Forand

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#21
May 16, 2013
 
KitemanSA wrote:
So now BF presumes he is omniscient enough to know what I have read and presumes to know that it is "biased".
He then follows this with the worst of straw-man tripe.
Then he babbles something about moving out and "Global Warming" and fragrance of "coaly oily radioactive toxic fume" ... What is he babbling about?
Does he fear Global Warming? Then certainly he wants a power source with the lowest possible carbon footprint. This desire is BEST filled by Liquid Fluoride Thorium Recyclers (LFTRs).
Does he want fewer coaly, oily fumes? This desire is BEST filled by LFTRs.
Does he want less radio-active waste? Surprisingly, this desire is ALSO best filled by LFTRs, since they burn/destroy radioactive waste.
Does he DISbelieve the three statements above? Probably. Should he be interested in the possibilities suggested? Certainly. Will he check out said possibilities? Unlikely. Seems all he REALLY wants is to shoot off his mouth and be the "grand poobah" know-it-all of the Topix.
Too bad. We have the same ends, but he doesn't have the means.

What you have read. Was it not you or perhaps one of your followers that provided me with the LINK.
Not babbling; Link to anywhere I was babbling. Typical from one that employs the projection strategy.
I never said I FEAR global warming. I do respect the findings of our science. Something you fail in. As you demonstrate with your promotion for additional radioactive Fissionable sources for our energies. Thrust these {LFTR’s} out into a world with terrorist eagerly awaiting their arrival.. Lowest carbon foot print is a higher probability, with non Toxic renewable energy, of achieving that , then the Toxic Fuel industries. Examples of their destructive affects have and are continuously being provided to us. From their methods of acquisition through their transportation, to their refinements and on to their dispersals. Have not even addressed their spills and or their various energy plants catastrophic destructions. Have already provided to the inefficiency of the burning of radioactive materials. Something you continuously ignore. We have enough trash to burn without having to produce more.
Do I want less oily coaly radioactive Toxic fuel residue? You better believe it. Have had enough of their pollution and the damage they have inflicted unto our societies health
Have stated my opposition and it has little to do with Belief as yours require we are to believe additional amounts of Toxic fueled systems are OK now, they will no longer pollute our society.. Toxic Fuel systems have lost Their creditability .
I’m no more the “Grand poobah” know it all, then you are. I’m as you a simple Joe. One that through the years have observed the failures of this Toxic Fuel method for energy.
I don’t have the means is true as well as it is with you.“BUT” I do have the highest probability, that what I propose for future energy requirements to be provided through renewable Toxic Free systems, is correct. Where in yours are not.
Your’s only seeks to continue with a cycle of Toxic Fuel Systems. Think not.!.

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#22
May 16, 2013
 

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Bernard Forand wrote:
<quoted text>
What you have read. Was it not you or perhaps one of your followers ... Think not.!.
I responded to this exact same post in another topic. Guess BF never tires of spamming.

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