Rain as acidic as lemon juice may hav...

Rain as acidic as lemon juice may have contributed to ancient mass extinction

There are 18 comments on the Earth & Sky story from Nov 26, 2013, titled Rain as acidic as lemon juice may have contributed to ancient mass extinction. In it, Earth & Sky reports that:

MIT researchers find that rain as acidic as lemon juice may have contributed to massive die-offs on land 252 million years ago.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Earth & Sky.

“Geologist [I'm Climate Change]”

Since: Mar 07

formerly Nuneaton

#1 Nov 27, 2013
Would have liked to comment on this one but apparently the link to the article has dissolved.

Have a nice day: Ag

“'QUANDARY'”

Since: Oct 12

Cheshire UK

#2 Dec 2, 2013
Smithsonian.
Sixty-five million years ago the dinosaurs died out along with more than 50% of other life forms on the planet. This mass extinction is so dramatic that for many years it was used to mark the boundary between the Cretaceous Period, when the last dinosaurs lived, and the Tertiary Period, when no dinosaurs remained. This is called the Cretaceous/Tertiary (or K/T) boundary, and the associated extinction is often termed the K/T extinction event.The name "Tertiary" is a holdover from the early days of geology, and many geologists now prefer the term "Paleogene" for the time period that immediately follows the Cretaceous. These scientists refer to the Cretaceous/Paleogene or K/P boundary, which represents the same moment in time as the K/T event.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#3 Dec 3, 2013
This thread is dead like this forum!

“'QUANDARY'”

Since: Oct 12

Cheshire UK

#4 Dec 3, 2013
normal Aussie wrote:
This thread is dead like this forum!
They both take after your brain cells.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#5 Dec 3, 2013
Coprolite1 wrote:
<quoted text>They both take after your brain cells.
So you agree?

“Geologist [I'm Climate Change]”

Since: Mar 07

formerly Nuneaton

#6 Dec 4, 2013
aha.

A return to this thread via the handy comments has finally led me to the re submitted article.

Appeared to be quite a handy one, particularly with regards to the SO2 effect on the Ozone layer.

The article however does not present the whole story as a similar outbreak of large igneous provinces occurred in the Early Cretaceous producing numerous oceanic large igneous provinces, of which probably most of them were initially subaerial (such as the Ontong java plateau which was probably even bigger than the Siberian traps prior to the rifting which split it into 3 segments. The climate @ the time is the same as currently following the switchover in April 2011 and is climate mode#3, which is rather more efficient @ cooling the planet than climate mode#2, but has not yet been modelled by the jason team as a result of the disbanding of the team during the Bush regime (Bush#1 not Bush #2).

The key to the mass extinction was the climate mode @ the time which had a lot to do with the < shape of the newly assembled pangaea supercontinent.

The climate mode as a result of the continental shape was #2 which is strongly monsoonal with the monsoonal root fixed in longitude & free to drift in latitude (we @ present are very familiar with this climate mode as it was modelled by the jason committee in the reagan Era. Climate mode#2 is NOT very efficient @ cooling the planet (and the result was warming to climate catastrophe models predicted by the jason model). This was coupled with dry monsoonal flow from the equatorial desert of the main supercontinent which blew from equator to pole across the continent. The areas of decent rainfall as a result were the extreme NW coastline and extreme E equatorial to tropics coastline subject to occasional tropical storms. The bulk of the rainfall in this mode strongly skewed by the pangaea supercontinent would have been in the equatorial ocean & temperate zone on the opposite side of the earth in the proto pacific ocean.

This desertification would have been the main cause of the demise of most of the coniferous land plant species that characterise the bulk of the Permian, the bulk of which would have been lost in forest fires in dry monsoonal flow.

The SO2 would have had a major impact on the proto pacific ocean which would have been by & large responsible for the H2S eutrophication of the deep ocean when the SO4 ions were reduced by bacterial decay of organics in stagnant conditions in the deep ocean. The effects of H2SO3 and H2SO4 in rainfall would also have produced a bit of a dent in the productivity of the more ephemeral species adapted to the occasional forest fires typical of the semi desert regions. In that respect this particular multi lug jigsaw piece is accurate.

Have a nice day: Ag

“Geologist [I'm Climate Change]”

Since: Mar 07

formerly Nuneaton

#7 Dec 4, 2013
Coprolite1 wrote:
Smithsonian.
Sixty-five million years ago the dinosaurs died out along with more than 50% of other life forms on the planet. This mass extinction is so dramatic that for many years it was used to mark the boundary between the Cretaceous Period, when the last dinosaurs lived, and the Tertiary Period, when no dinosaurs remained. This is called the Cretaceous/Tertiary (or K/T) boundary, and the associated extinction is often termed the K/T extinction event.The name "Tertiary" is a holdover from the early days of geology, and many geologists now prefer the term "Paleogene" for the time period that immediately follows the Cretaceous. These scientists refer to the Cretaceous/Paleogene or K/P boundary, which represents the same moment in time as the K/T event.
I still regard the K/P as a bag of nuts.

have found that the jigsaw puzzle here is also a mixed bag. There is evidence of 3 big crater forming impacts @ that time. The first was an oceanic impact off the W. coastline of the Caribbean SW of Mexico, which was responsible for a glassy tektite fall in NE.Mexico Maastrichtian strata & also Haiti which has previously been stated as Chixculub ejecta but has a basaltic substrate with no continental material and no shocked quartz. The island of Gorgona off SW.Colombia appears to be part of the outer crater rim & ejecta field implying that the crater landed on the edge of a basaltic oceanic igneous plateau & smashed it into large blocks. This impact occurred ~300,000 years before the mass extinction & was at least as big as Chixculub. The 1st phase of the deccan traps dates to @ or immediately after this impact.

The 2nd event appears to be the genuine Chixculub impact which landed on a continent covered by a carbonate plateau in VERY shallow water. This event appears to be responsible for the loss of the bulk of the ecosystem as a result of 6 months(+) of darkness via a dry dust pall (Gorgona being oceanic got rained out fast). The ejecta contains shocked quartz, basic-intermediate rock and platinum group elements absent from the Gorgona ejecta. This appears to have been the cause of the dino demise & also the bulk of the non detritivore based ecosystem. This was then followed by a series of very long flows from the Deccan traps (some may have preceded the impact) resulting in a strong SO2 & CO2 flux input which greenhoused the Deccan region depositional regime into semi desert conditions. The ecosystem recovered into early Danian conditions with inter flow strata containing mammal bones rather than the Maastrichtian dino eggshells.

In the Early Danian another large continental impact delayed the evolution of large mammal species and caused a small extinction event (because there were few large animals around @ the time). This impact appears to have been continental with a similar array of shocked quartz, basic-intermediate rock dust & platinum group elements typical of continental crust of cratonic type. It was smaller than Chixculub, and appears to have produced a palaeo tsunami in early danian limestone shelf strata of Brazil. This event was apparently followed by a 3rd phase of basaltic traps from the Deccan which was relatively low volume and terminated quite quickly as a result of rifting of the Seychelles from the E. side of the Deccan region and subsequent oceanic spreading. The climate was nowhere near as greenhoused in the deccan region @ that time or after, and it appears that a large chunk of the K/T greenhouse event was due to the loss of a large number of previously dominant plant species from the ecosystem.

For the record the climate mode in all 3 cases of impact @ extinction was climate mode#3. Not all the pieces of the jigsaw have been found for this particular picture as yet but a series of Dinos saying "Oh Shit" appears in the image gained thus far.

have a nice day: Ag

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#8 Dec 4, 2013
Adrian Godsafe MSc wrote:
<quoted text>I still regard the K/P as a bag of nuts.

have found that the jigsaw puzzle here is also a mixed bag. There is evidence of 3 big crater forming impacts @ that time. The first was an oceanic impact off the W. coastline of the Caribbean SW of Mexico, which was responsible for a glassy tektite fall in NE.Mexico Maastrichtian strata & also Haiti which has previously been stated as Chixculub ejecta but has a basaltic substrate with no continental material and no shocked quartz. The island of Gorgona off SW.Colombia appears to be part of the outer crater rim & ejecta field implying that the crater landed on the edge of a basaltic oceanic igneous plateau & smashed it into large blocks. This impact occurred ~300,000 years before the mass extinction & was at least as big as Chixculub. The 1st phase of the deccan traps dates to @ or immediately after this impact.

The 2nd event appears to be the genuine Chixculub impact which landed on a continent covered by a carbonate plateau in VERY shallow water. This event appears to be responsible for the loss of the bulk of the ecosystem as a result of 6 months(+) of darkness via a dry dust pall (Gorgona being oceanic got rained out fast). The ejecta contains shocked quartz, basic-intermediate rock and platinum group elements absent from the Gorgona ejecta. This appears to have been the cause of the dino demise & also the bulk of the non detritivore based ecosystem. This was then followed by a series of very long flows from the Deccan traps (some may have preceded the impact) resulting in a strong SO2 & CO2 flux input which greenhoused the Deccan region depositional regime into semi desert conditions. The ecosystem recovered into early Danian conditions with inter flow strata containing mammal bones rather than the Maastrichtian dino eggshells.

In the Early Danian another large continental impact delayed the evolution of large mammal species and caused a small extinction event (because there were few large animals around @ the time). This impact appears to have been continental with a similar array of shocked quartz, basic-intermediate rock dust & platinum group elements typical of continental crust of cratonic type. It was smaller than Chixculub, and appears to have produced a palaeo tsunami in early danian limestone shelf strata of Brazil. This event was apparently followed by a 3rd phase of basaltic traps from the Deccan which was relatively low volume and terminated quite quickly as a result of rifting of the Seychelles from the E. side of the Deccan region and subsequent oceanic spreading. The climate was nowhere near as greenhoused in the deccan region @ that time or after, and it appears that a large chunk of the K/T greenhouse event was due to the loss of a large number of previously dominant plant species from the ecosystem.

For the record the climate mode in all 3 cases of impact @ extinction was climate mode#3. Not all the pieces of the jigsaw have been found for this particular picture as yet but a series of Dinos saying "Oh Shit" appears in the image gained thus far.

have a nice day: Ag
Jesus, what a novel!
litesong

Everett, WA

#9 Dec 4, 2013
normal ass wrote:
what a novel!
....too much science & too many letters for toxic topix AGW deniers.........
B as in B S as in S

Minneapolis, MN

#10 Dec 4, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
....too much science & too many letters for toxic topix AGW deniers.........
You, on the other hand, are not smart enough to deny anything.
All you know how to do is agree with believers in Anthropogenic Carbon Dioxide Driven Catastrophic Global Climate Disruption (ACDDCGCD). Now I know those words are too big for you and the abbreviation has too many letters for you to understand so I will wait for your response until some fellow believer responds so you know what to think. No thanks necessary. I am getting used to you devout followers who are unable to think for yourselves and simply resort to cut n paste and insults in substitution for intellectual intercourse.

Looking forward to your nonsensical response...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#11 Dec 4, 2013
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>....too much science & too many letters for toxic topix AGW deniers.........
Science? It's all about as hypothetical as a couple of 10 year old boys talking about rooting Princess Leia!

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#13 Dec 5, 2013
imadonkey wrote:
<quoted text>When it comes to said 10 year olds 'rooting' you, you prefer to talk in terms of fantasies rather than hypothesis'.
You cracked a bit of a woody reading that didn't you? Lol

“'QUANDARY'”

Since: Oct 12

Cheshire UK

#14 Dec 5, 2013
In other words imadonkey, the Aussie dumb cluck doesn't know what you're talking about!

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#15 Dec 5, 2013
Coprolite1 wrote:
In other words imadonkey, the Aussie dumb cluck doesn't know what you're talking about!
No, I mean as soon as he saw rooting an 10 year olds in the same post he had to bring attention to it! Lol

Try to keep up mate. I've already made you look stupid for months. You forget your place.:)

“'QUANDARY'”

Since: Oct 12

Cheshire UK

#16 Dec 5, 2013
How do you keep abnormal Aussie busy for a few hours?

Tell to get in a barrel and p!ss in the corner!

And don't worry he would get giddy...
Coz where's there's no sense there's no reeling.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#17 Dec 5, 2013
Coprolite1 wrote:
How do you keep abnormal Aussie busy for a few hours?

Tell to get in a barrel and p!ss in the corner!

And don't worry he would get giddy...
Coz where's there's no sense there's no reeling.
I like how when I'm farming you, you start replying to nobody and speak in tongues to a none existent audience. Clown!

“Geologist [I'm Climate Change]”

Since: Mar 07

formerly Nuneaton

#18 Dec 9, 2013
normal Aussie wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus, what a novel!
may think about a novel once I am out of my current loc.

There are 4 climate modes after all, and during the Pleistocene (2.2Ma-present) all 4 climate modes are possible and have resulted in either 24 or 26 glacial intervals (depends on the researcher) and 25 or thereabouts interglacials, the latest we are sitting trolling each other in @ the present time.

The fun bit is that the Pleistocene is a response to the pan American land barrier which has produced a \ shaped landmass bisecting the ocean with a small gap S. of Patagonia. This has allowed climate mode#4 to operate once the Gulf stream thermohaline circulation in the N. Atlantic has shut down & the gulf stream goes to the canary islands & N.Africa for a holiday.

Remember that in late Permian times Pangaea was a < shape which forced climate mode#2?(read in the novel above if you have a decent memory). Ever wondered what would have happened if the ocean crossing supercontinent was a > shape instead?

In that case climate mode#4 is likely to be a semi permanent feature spending enough time ON to refrigerate the planet into a snowball, with the default once the driving heat is taken out being mode#1 which refrigerates the poles,(in a snowball they will reach Mars temperatures).

This incidentally has happened before. For those with a geological interest, the late Vendian global snowball event happened 4 times between 850 and 600Ma, and in this case (as @ present) the continents were widely scattered and the ocean was barriered by island arc land bridges.

For the AGW set the change in climate modes will result in the complete absence of a jason model heat death @ present and anthropogenic CO2 & other greenhouse gas input will merely hasten the time taken to shut down the N. Atlantic thermohaline circulation which happens during climate mode#3 (right about now).

You should read more.

Have a nice day: Ag

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#19 Dec 9, 2013
Adrian Godsafe MSc wrote:
<quoted text>may think about a novel once I am out of my current loc.

There are 4 climate modes after all, and during the Pleistocene (2.2Ma-present) all 4 climate modes are possible and have resulted in either 24 or 26 glacial intervals (depends on the researcher) and 25 or thereabouts interglacials, the latest we are sitting trolling each other in @ the present time.

The fun bit is that the Pleistocene is a response to the pan American land barrier which has produced a \ shaped landmass bisecting the ocean with a small gap S. of Patagonia. This has allowed climate mode#4 to operate once the Gulf stream thermohaline circulation in the N. Atlantic has shut down & the gulf stream goes to the canary islands & N.Africa for a holiday.

Remember that in late Permian times Pangaea was a < shape which forced climate mode#2?(read in the novel above if you have a decent memory). Ever wondered what would have happened if the ocean crossing supercontinent was a > shape instead?

In that case climate mode#4 is likely to be a semi permanent feature spending enough time ON to refrigerate the planet into a snowball, with the default once the driving heat is taken out being mode#1 which refrigerates the poles,(in a snowball they will reach Mars temperatures).

This incidentally has happened before. For those with a geological interest, the late Vendian global snowball event happened 4 times between 850 and 600Ma, and in this case (as @ present) the continents were widely scattered and the ocean was barriered by island arc land bridges.

For the AGW set the change in climate modes will result in the complete absence of a jason model heat death @ present and anthropogenic CO2 & other greenhouse gas input will merely hasten the time taken to shut down the N. Atlantic thermohaline circulation which happens during climate mode#3 (right about now).

You should read more.

Have a nice day: Ag
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