Floods connected with Arctic ice loss

Floods connected with Arctic ice loss

There are 23 comments on the Earth Times story from Oct 31, 2013, titled Floods connected with Arctic ice loss. In it, Earth Times reports that:

The island of Disko in Baffin Bay, west of Greenland sees much more clear water in the summer now than in the days of Eric the Red.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Earth Times.

First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#1 Oct 31, 2013
The arctic oscillation is negative. Nothing to do with global warming, a lot to do with the jet stream.
litesong

Everett, WA

#2 Oct 31, 2013
fun farts wrote:
The arctic oscillation is negative. Nothing to do with global warming, a lot to do with the jet stream.
"fun farts" farts pseudo-science thru its face fissure & finger fumblings.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#3 Oct 31, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
The arctic oscillation is negative. Nothing to do with global warming, a lot to do with the jet stream.
The jet stream and the Arctic oscillation are an EFFECT, not a CAUSE. AGW is a CAUSE. Whether the cause AND effect(s) are related is what the article is answering.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#4 Oct 31, 2013
It is interesting that the article mentions 'atmospheric rivers' of moisture causing the devastating floods in Europe. The US is in danger of a similar state (which happened in the 1860's) devastating the state of California.

http://tinyurl.com/bbrqage
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#5 Nov 1, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
The jet stream and the Arctic oscillation are an EFFECT, not a CAUSE. AGW is a CAUSE. Whether the cause AND effect(s) are related is what the article is answering.
The Arctic Oscillation has been around a lot longer than man made global warming.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#6 Nov 1, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
The Arctic Oscillation has been around a lot longer than man made global warming.
Yes. It has. But it is still an EFFECT of the climate, not a cause. AGW is a cause. The negative and positive phases of the AO will be affected by CAUSES. The AO has no role in CAUSING anything.
litesong

Everett, WA

#7 Nov 1, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
Yes. It has. But it is still an EFFECT of the climate, not a cause. AGW is a cause. The negative and positive phases of the AO will be affected by CAUSES. The AO has no role in CAUSING anything.
Thank you for the relationship of the effect AO, to the cause AGW.

toxic topix AGW denier "fun farts" similarly continues spouting that water vapor is a much stronger GHG than CO2. However, it is increases in infra-red energy absorbing non-phase change GHGs CO2, methane, SF6 & others, that cause any increases in infra-red energy absorbing phase-change GHG effecting water vapor, thus increases in water vapor are a primary feedback of AGW.
SpaceBlues

United States

#8 Nov 1, 2013
American Indian and Alaska Native Heritage Month, November 2013

American Indians and Alaska Natives is designated in USA as one of the six major race categories.

Population
5.2 million

The nation’s population of American Indians and Alaska Natives, including those of more than one race. They made up about 2 percent of the total population in 2012. Of this total, about 49 percent were American Indian and Alaska Native only, and about 51 percent were American Indian and Alaska Native in combination with one or more other races.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#9 Nov 2, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. It has. But it is still an EFFECT of the climate, not a cause. AGW is a cause. The negative and positive phases of the AO will be affected by CAUSES. The AO has no role in CAUSING anything.
Backwards! The AO is the cause. When the AO is positive it holds the cold, when it's negative the cold drops, via the jet.

But you could go with man made it happen. That's what they did when the glaciers advanced on Europe, they blamed 'man' for the encroachments. They were wrong, in this case, so are you.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#10 Nov 2, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
The arctic oscillation is negative. Nothing to do with global warming, a lot to do with the jet stream.
It's been negative before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arctic_Osci...

But these rates of precipitation are "unprecedented" since 1979 and "extraordinary" since 1900.

http://ej.iop.org/images/1748-9326/8/4/044015...

Melting ice and the AO together explain the observations.

AGW is having an effect on the climate of Northern Europe.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#11 Nov 2, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Backwards! The AO is the cause. When the AO is positive it holds the cold, when it's negative the cold drops, via the jet.
Still wrong. The AO is a description of what is HAPPENING in terms of the location of a high pressure area. Thus it is an EFFECT of some other parameter that CAUSED the high pressure to form there more frequently than normal. The exact nature of the causation is still under study.

It cannot CAUSE anything.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#12 Nov 3, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Still wrong. The AO is a description of what is HAPPENING in terms of the location of a high pressure area. Thus it is an EFFECT of some other parameter that CAUSED the high pressure to form there more frequently than normal. The exact nature of the causation is still under study.
It cannot CAUSE anything.
No Less, this time you're just wrong.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#13 Nov 3, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
It's been negative before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arctic_Osci...
But these rates of precipitation are "unprecedented" since 1979 and "extraordinary" since 1900.
http://ej.iop.org/images/1748-9326/8/4/044015...
Melting ice and the AO together explain the observations.
AGW is having an effect on the climate of Northern Europe.
Of course it's been negative before, and positive, in fact the AO is regularly in a positive or negative mode. Hince they call it an oscillation.

You're looking at weather and trying to make it correlate with a single weather producer. Well let's look.

http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e3797...

What you notice is that the regime of the AO is a constant up and down. What you will also notice is that in 1989-90 the AO stayed primarily positive for many years.

Here's a look from 2000 forward

http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/cmb/teleco...

Again in 2006, your reference year, the AO also stayed mostly positive. Also notice that in 2010 when we had a very cold winter the AO was very negative.

When the AO is positive it causes a specific set of weather conditions and when negative it cause another set of specific weather conditions.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#14 Nov 3, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it's been negative before, and positive, in fact the AO is regularly in a positive or negative mode. Hince they call it an oscillation.
You're looking at weather and trying to make it correlate with a single weather producer. Well let's look.
http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e3797...
What you notice is that the regime of the AO is a constant up and down. What you will also notice is that in 1989-90 the AO stayed primarily positive for many years.
Here's a look from 2000 forward
http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/cmb/teleco...
Again in 2006, your reference year, the AO also stayed mostly positive. Also notice that in 2010 when we had a very cold winter the AO was very negative.
When the AO is positive it causes a specific set of weather conditions and when negative it cause another set of specific weather conditions.
And even when looking at what's happened in the past, these rates of precipitation are "unprecedented" since 1979 and "extraordinary" since 1900, according to this paper.

The climate system is changing, and it's man-made changes in the Arctic that are driving that shift in the climate system.

The very negative AO in 2010 and the resultant cold winter is also anomalous, and also explained by the effects of man-made warming in the Arctic.

The scientific literature is revealing the effects of man-made global warming and you are in denial.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#15 Nov 3, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
And even when looking at what's happened in the past, these rates of precipitation are "unprecedented" since 1979 and "extraordinary" since 1900, according to this paper.
The climate system is changing, and it's man-made changes in the Arctic that are driving that shift in the climate system.
The very negative AO in 2010 and the resultant cold winter is also anomalous, and also explained by the effects of man-made warming in the Arctic.
The scientific literature is revealing the effects of man-made global warming and you are in denial.
No, the negative AO of 2010 was not anomalous. Except in relationship of the regime of positive AOs since 2006.

https://www2.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/uca...

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#16 Nov 3, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the negative AO of 2010 was not anomalous. Except in relationship of the regime of positive AOs since 2006.
https://www2.ucar.edu/sites/default/files/uca...
Yes it was. It was the lowest in the record.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#17 Nov 4, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes it was. It was the lowest in the record.
Do a little research and determine how they compiled the record of AO activity.

The AO got it's name in 1998, should tell you the graph you are looking at is a proxy study. Good for showing patterns of activity, not so good for showing exact values.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#18 Nov 4, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Do a little research and determine how they compiled the record of AO activity.
The AO got it's name in 1998, should tell you the graph you are looking at is a proxy study. Good for showing patterns of activity, not so good for showing exact values.
You are in denial.
A further, quite graphic illustration of the effects of the negative phase of the oscillation occurred in February 2010. In that month, the Arctic Oscillation reached its most negative monthly mean value, &#8722;4.266, in the entire post-1950 era (the period of accurate record-keeping). That month was characterized by three separate historic snowstorms that occurred in the mid-Atlantic region of the United States. The first storm dumped 25 inches (640 mm) on Baltimore, Maryland, on February 5–6, and then a second storm dumped 19.5 inches (500 mm) on February 9–10. In New York City, a separate storm deposited 20.9 inches (530 mm) on February 25–26. This kind of snowstorm activity is as anomalous and extreme as the negative AO value itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_oscillati...
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#19 Nov 4, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Do a little research and determine how they compiled the record of AO activity.
The AO got it's name in 1998, should tell you the graph you are looking at is a proxy study. Good for showing patterns of activity, not so good for showing exact values.
"Good for showing patterns of activity"

Exactly. An effect of other factors that they study by watching patterns. It cannot CAUSE anything by itself. Thank you for rebutting Mr. Fun Farts.. oooh, that is you. As usual, you mix facts with fantasy and throw the whole mess out in your posts, never once realizing you are contradicting yourself once again...
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#20 Nov 6, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
You are in denial.
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_oscillati...
So many references available from credible sources and you go to wiki.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Natural Disasters Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Global warming made Paris floods far more likel... 17 min Into The Night 93
News Crews rescue the stranded in West Virginia floo... 2 hr Sharon Wilkerson ... 1
News 80 homes burned, 1,500 threatened in 'extremely... 12 hr Blackbutler 2
News Radio amateurs make history in B.C. disaster dr... 14 hr dutch supporter 2
News Central New Zealand shaken by 4.7 magnitude ear... 14 hr dutch supporter 1
News Life-saving decision on flood swollen river (Dec '15) 15 hr THE COMEDIAN 3
News Cooling centres in Halton Hills open to residents 23 hr Sophistry 5
More from around the web