JonBenet: truths, myths and lies

JonBenet: truths, myths and lies

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Lynette

Alberton, South Africa

#3 Nov 23, 2010
Hi O Silver wrote:
Hi Lynette: thanks for opening my eyes, to so much myth in the stories that the great cops of boulder told & are still telling, oh by the way Lynette, remember brenner & Schiller sat side by side, an wrote Schillers book. Two peas in same pod, like Moon Jack said, go figure, it's the source MJ was speaking of I bet. I would even bet MJ thought Brenner was like Tom Watson, he was a bullshit lying journalist also. It's these type of lies that dogs feed on and get someone hung.
Hi HOS. How are you? Yes, Charlie Brenner supplied Schiller with much of the information for PMPT and I don't know how accurate his information was. There's also the question of "Melinda's" partial palm print on the wine cellar door which is open to dispute and which is rumoured to have come from Brenner.

From the Wolf vs Ramsey civil ruling:

"In addition, on the wine-cellar door, there is a palmprint that does not match either of defendants' palmprints.(SMF P 156; PSMF P 156.) The individual to whom it belongs had not yet been identified.(SMF P 156; PSMF P 156.)" (Carnes 2003:19-20).

But a newspaper account claims:“A palm print on the door leading to that same wine cellar, long unidentified, is that of Melinda Ramsey, JonBenet's adult half-sister. She was in Georgia at the time of the murder.”…“…L. Lin Wood, the attorney representing the Ramseys, who now live in Atlanta, doesn't debate the palm print findings…”(Quotations and source provided by Internet poster Tricia.
Internet poster Mame asserts: "the story suggesting the handprint is confirmed to be Melinda's is just that....a story. If I recall the report came via a reporter, Charlie Brennan. Remember his footprints in the snow story??? A totally false story."

Trip DeMuth didn't seem to think it was Melinda's palm print. From a 2006 interview with Anderson Cooper in reference to JMK:

COOPER: What about the palm print, how big is it? How crucial is it?

DEMUTH: You know, obviously if they've compared the palm print to him
and it's a match, then it places him not only in Boulder County at the
time of the murder, but it places him inside of that house in close
proximity to where the girl was found on the day of the murder, and
that's very compelling evidence. "

Later he says:

"So the only thing that I haven't heard about that they possibly have
is the palm print. And the fact of the matter is, I hope they've got
that. "

And...

"But at the same time, if they have a palm print comparison to this
guy, then my blood pressure goes down and I feel a lot better about
the case. "

And even more recently this story in the rocky Mountain News from July 10, 2008:

"unidentified shoe and palm prints inside the home; a broken basement window and a disturbed window well, with material from that window well found in the room where her body was discovered; unidentified hair and fiber on the child, her clothing and the blanket covering her."

Who to believe? Personally my money's on the judge. You?

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#4 Nov 23, 2010
Why don't you start with evidence of an intruder?
Charlie Chan

Lihue, HI

#5 Nov 23, 2010
Hi Lynette,
John Fernie came to the house AFTER the first police arrived, who observed no footprints in the snow. He could not dispute the observation because he made footprints in the snow AFTER the observation.
This is the timetable I got:
< http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/1168... ;
Of course, the Fernies lived close by, BUT Patsy called 911 at 5:52 that morning, and the police arrived at about 5:59. You must remember that the police that came within the 7 minutes were already dressed and at work, while we don't know whether the Fernies were sleeping or up, or ready to leave their home.
REMEMBER? the 911 call was made at 5:52AM. The Ramseys did not hang up the phone immediately, which caused the controversial report of Burkes voice in the enhanced search of the tape???? Unless Patsy called the Fernies BEFORE she called the police, which is highly suspicious or unusual at the very least, John Fernie could not have arrived at or close to or slightly after 6AM. He wasn't called until very close to 6AM, or perhaps even after 6AM
Let's look at this. 5:52 The 911 call is made. How long did Patsy talk to the dispatcher???? Remember, close to, or after Patsy put the phone down, the dispatcher radioed the nearest police who got to the scene by 5:59, AND Patsy did not hang up the phone properly causing the controversial enhanced test of the tape with Burke's voice? After that, she calls the Whites, the Fernies, and then the pastor. So, did John Fernie get to the Ramsey house soon after 6AM???? I really don't think so.
So, when did Fernie arrive???? Unless Patsy called the Fernies FIRST, before making the 911 call, they had to be informed most likely after 6AM, and to get there right away, they would have to be fully dressed and ready to go.
CC
Charlie Chan

Lihue, HI

#6 Nov 23, 2010
BrotherMoon wrote:
Why don't you start with evidence of an intruder?
There is no credible evidence of an intruder.
CC

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#7 Nov 23, 2010
Here's a lie for you - that LE "withheld' JBs body to try to force the Ramseys to submit to separate interviews. Not only did it not happen but the Ramseys claimed that the THREAT to withhold her body is one of the main reasons they distrusted LE, yet the Ramseys did not even know about the threat to withhold her body until JUNE of 1997.
The Ramseys milked that lie to death and duped you gullible IDI.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#8 Nov 23, 2010
thewhitewitchone wrote:
Here's a lie for you - that LE "withheld' JBs body to try to force the Ramseys to submit to separate interviews. Not only did it not happen but the Ramseys claimed that the THREAT to withhold her body is one of the main reasons they distrusted LE, yet the Ramseys did not even know about the threat to withhold her body until JUNE of 1997.
The Ramseys milked that lie to death and duped you gullible IDI.
According to Patsy in the NE interviews, they didn't even know they were being suspected until they were already living in Atlanta. She said she was "appalled"

So the "police were targeting us" mantra is also a fabrication from someone's imagination
Eva

AOL

#9 Nov 23, 2010
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
According to Patsy in the NE interviews, they didn't even know they were being suspected until they were already living in Atlanta. She said she was "appalled"
So the "police were targeting us" mantra is also a fabrication from someone's imagination
Ramseys got all their "police were targeting us" bs from Bynum. Bynum was right in there with Boulder's legal machine and he knew the Ramseys were good for the murder and knew what the police saw too. Bynum knew the body could and should have been held until the investigation was completed.
Besides, John Ramsey wanted to get the hell out of Boulder that day and leave Jonbenet on the floor behind him! Who's kidding who?
Old South

AOL

#10 Nov 23, 2010
Eva wrote:
<quoted text>
Ramseys got all their "police were targeting us" bs from Bynum. Bynum was right in there with Boulder's legal machine and he knew the Ramseys were good for the murder and knew what the police saw too. Bynum knew the body could and should have been held until the investigation was completed.
Besides, John Ramsey wanted to get the hell out of Boulder that day and leave Jonbenet on the floor behind him! Who's kidding who?
And for this reason Bynum had the Ramseys "lawyer up". And you're right about the body "could and should have been held until the investigation was completed"; at least, until the initial investigation had been completed because -- supposedly -- the investigation is still ongoing.

And this brings me to ask again, Why get separate lawyers for all the members of John's side of the family? I think it had to be because of something they knew that possibly Patsy's family did NOT know. And the thing that comes to my mind is they would know of John's philandering -- something Patsy didn't know about and therefore her family didn't know about, either.

Or, maybe there were other things about John that neither Patsy nor her family was aware of.
Old South

AOL

#11 Nov 23, 2010
<quoted test> Lynette wrote:

Trip DeMuth didn't seem to think it was Melinda's palm print. FROM A 2006 INTERVIEW WITH ANDERSON COOPER IN REFERENCE TO JMK:

COOPER: What about the palm print, how big is it? How crucial is it?

DEMUTH: You know, obviously if they've compared the palm print to him
and it's a match, then it places him not only in Boulder County at the
time of the murder, but it places him inside of that house in close
proximity to where the girl was found on the day of the murder, and
that's very compelling evidence. "

Later he says:

"So the only thing that I haven't heard about that they possibly have
is the palm print. And the fact of the matter is, I hope they've got
that. "

And...

"But at the same time, if they have a palm print comparison to this
guy, then my blood pressure goes down and I feel a lot better about
the case. "

And even more recently this story in the rocky Mountain News from July 10, 2008:

"unidentified shoe and palm prints inside the home; a broken basement window and a disturbed window well, with material from that window well found in the room where her body was discovered; unidentified hair and fiber on the child, her clothing and the blanket covering her."

----------

Lynette, are you saying that DuMuth claims the palm print belonged to JMK? If so, it would be not only interesting but would provide those who still believe JMK was the perp with PROOF that he not only was in Boulder but was in the home and near the crime scene.

I doubt if this is the case because in the first place, I don't believe DuMuth said this; and secondly,

Had this been the case, JMK believers would have been all over this since they had looked for years for evidence he was in Boulder on Dec. 25-26, 1996.

So my question to you is, what is the purpose of your including this bit here?
Eva

AOL

#12 Nov 23, 2010
Old South wrote:
<quoted text>
And for this reason Bynum had the Ramseys "lawyer up". And you're right about the body "could and should have been held until the investigation was completed"; at least, until the initial investigation had been completed because -- supposedly -- the investigation is still ongoing.
And this brings me to ask again, Why get separate lawyers for all the members of John's side of the family? I think it had to be because of something they knew that possibly Patsy's family did NOT know. And the thing that comes to my mind is they would know of John's philandering -- something Patsy didn't know about and therefore her family didn't know about, either.
Or, maybe there were other things about John that neither Patsy nor her family was aware of.
You're right OS, there had to be something to that lawyering up of ex wife and adult children. The Paugh's had just been there, Grandpa Paugh flew out the night before. Why would people in GA need an atty when they all had rock solid alibis? You're right, more to it.
Ramsey said it nauseated him "beyond belief" when CNN reporter asked about the scrutiny he'd be under and the media attention. If he was the Christian he was portraying in that interview (1/1/97), what did he have to worry about from police or media?! Squeaky clean with one affair that ended his marriage 20 years ago that his present wife knew about? No big deal in the grand scope, certainly not important in relation to molestation and murder. Not enough to hire counsel for out of towners you rarely see.
Biz

Brandon, FL

#14 Nov 24, 2010
thewhitewitchone wrote:
Here's a lie for you - that LE "withheld' JBs body to try to force the Ramseys to submit to separate interviews. Not only did it not happen but the Ramseys claimed that the THREAT to withhold her body is one of the main reasons they distrusted LE, yet the Ramseys did not even know about the threat to withhold her body until JUNE of 1997.
The Ramseys milked that lie to death and duped you gullible IDI.
Well their attorney who was also a close friend certainly knew about it. And he cautioned them about Boulder PD.
Biz

Brandon, FL

#15 Nov 24, 2010
Old South wrote:
<quoted test> Lynette wrote:
Trip DeMuth didn't seem to think it was Melinda's palm print. FROM A 2006 INTERVIEW WITH ANDERSON COOPER IN REFERENCE TO JMK:
COOPER: What about the palm print, how big is it? How crucial is it?
DEMUTH: You know, obviously if they've compared the palm print to him
and it's a match, then it places him not only in Boulder County at the
time of the murder, but it places him inside of that house in close
proximity to where the girl was found on the day of the murder, and
that's very compelling evidence. "
Later he says:
"So the only thing that I haven't heard about that they possibly have
is the palm print. And the fact of the matter is, I hope they've got
that. "
And...
"But at the same time, if they have a palm print comparison to this
guy, then my blood pressure goes down and I feel a lot better about
the case. "
And even more recently this story in the rocky Mountain News from July 10, 2008:
"unidentified shoe and palm prints inside the home; a broken basement window and a disturbed window well, with material from that window well found in the room where her body was discovered; unidentified hair and fiber on the child, her clothing and the blanket covering her."
----------
Lynette, are you saying that DuMuth claims the palm print belonged to JMK? If so, it would be not only interesting but would provide those who still believe JMK was the perp with PROOF that he not only was in Boulder but was in the home and near the crime scene.
I doubt if this is the case because in the first place, I don't believe DuMuth said this; and secondly,
Had this been the case, JMK believers would have been all over this since they had looked for years for evidence he was in Boulder on Dec. 25-26, 1996.
So my question to you is, what is the purpose of your including this bit here?
It sounds to me like he is saying that he doesn't know if they compared that palm print to JMK. We still don't know. From what is implied, they tested his DNA, it didn't match and that was it. However I don't think they considered the idea that he could have been an accomplice. He told MT "the killer's left at different times". He implied many times he was not the only one there before he was arrested. Trip Demuth has always said he thought JMK should have been investigated further.
Biz

Brandon, FL

#16 Nov 24, 2010
Charlie Chan wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no credible evidence of an intruder.
CC
In your OPINION. IMO there is PLENTY of evidence of an intruder.
Lynette

Alberton, South Africa

#17 Nov 24, 2010
<Lynette, are you saying that DuMuth claims the palm print belonged to JMK? If so, it would be not only interesting but would provide those who still believe JMK was the perp with PROOF that he not only was in Boulder but was in the home and near the crime scene.

I doubt if this is the case because in the first place, I don't believe DuMuth said this; and secondly,

Had this been the case, JMK believers would have been all over this since they had looked for years for evidence he was in Boulder on Dec. 25-26, 1996.

So my question to you is, what is the purpose of your including this bit here?>

OS, here is a link to the article:
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/21/ac...
I don't know if it will post successfully, but if not, Google "Re-breaking News/Boulder DA: New DNA clears Ramsey family" then you can read it for yourself. It's rather a long article, that's why I just posted a portion of it.

The interview took place at the time of the JMK
debacle, which is why Trip DeMuth was speculating as to whether the palm print could be JMK's.

I posted it purely for the purpose of demonstrating that in 2006 and again as recently as 2008 there was still uncertainty as to who left that palm print there.
IOW, it is probably a myth that it belongs to Melinda and the source of that palm print is still unknown.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#18 Nov 24, 2010
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
Well their attorney who was also a close friend certainly knew about it. And he cautioned them about Boulder PD.
How do you know this? All these tidbits about what the Ramseys knew and didn't know about what was going on in Boulder in the minds of LE, is a direct contradiction to what the Ramseys themselves have to say in DOI

The whole incident could have and should have been avoided in total. The fact that holding the body in order to get the Ramseys to cooperate, while sounding horrible, is really a sad testiment to the reasons it was even considered in the first place

THAT is what should be focused on; not that the police wanted to deprive the Ramseys of a quick funeral, but that they even needed to come up with ways to get the Ramseys to answer questions about the murder

Look at the bigger picture if you want answers to the case
Lynette

Alberton, South Africa

#19 Nov 24, 2010
Charlie Chan wrote:
Hi Lynette,
John Fernie came to the house AFTER the first police arrived, who observed no footprints in the snow. He could not dispute the observation because he made footprints in the snow AFTER the observation.
This is the timetable I got:
< http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/1168... ;
Of course, the Fernies lived close by, BUT Patsy called 911 at 5:52 that morning, and the police arrived at about 5:59. You must remember that the police that came within the 7 minutes were already dressed and at work, while we don't know whether the Fernies were sleeping or up, or ready to leave their home.
REMEMBER? the 911 call was made at 5:52AM. The Ramseys did not hang up the phone immediately, which caused the controversial report of Burkes voice in the enhanced search of the tape???? Unless Patsy called the Fernies BEFORE she called the police, which is highly suspicious or unusual at the very least, John Fernie could not have arrived at or close to or slightly after 6AM. He wasn't called until very close to 6AM, or perhaps even after 6AM
Let's look at this. 5:52 The 911 call is made. How long did Patsy talk to the dispatcher???? Remember, close to, or after Patsy put the phone down, the dispatcher radioed the nearest police who got to the scene by 5:59, AND Patsy did not hang up the phone properly causing the controversial enhanced test of the tape with Burke's voice? After that, she calls the Whites, the Fernies, and then the pastor. So, did John Fernie get to the Ramsey house soon after 6AM???? I really don't think so.
So, when did Fernie arrive???? Unless Patsy called the Fernies FIRST, before making the 911 call, they had to be informed most likely after 6AM, and to get there right away, they would have to be fully dressed and ready to go.
CC
I understand what you're saying, Charlie. The article to the link you posted says RF arrived at 5.59am and Veitch and Fernie arrived after 5.59am. The Whites apparently arrived at 6.03 am, but Fernie arrived before the Whites. So IOW, Fernie arrived sometime between 5.59 and 6.03am, leaving his footprints in the snow. Truth is, I don't think anyone really knows to the nearest minute what time anyone arrived as I doubt they were looking at their watches. Those times are probably estimates. But Fernie apparently arrived so soon after the first two police officers, that it's doubtful the police would have had time to look for footprints in the snow before he arrived. To the best of my understanding Paul Reichenbach was the first cop to look for footprints in the snow and he only arrived at 6.45am, by which time there were already a number of people in the Ramsey residence. So I stand firm in my opinion that there were in fact footprints in the snow.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#22 Nov 24, 2010
FRANKY LEE wrote:
...Lyn, sorry. I don't mean to embarrass you....
It seems you do. Your posts speak louder than these few words

Sorry Lynette
Lynette

Alberton, South Africa

#23 Nov 24, 2010
FRANKY LEE wrote:
the following quote is talen from the saint who said he couldn't wait to see Lynette's face when she is asked how she feels about her father raping her and her husband assualting her children, "THAT is what should be focused on; not that the police wanted to deprive the Ramseys of a quick funeral, but that they even needed to come up with ways to get the Ramseys to answer questions about the murder" What St. Capricorn fails to mention would include the days they, the cops, spent with them when they could ask any questions they wished. He forgets to mention that John was the murderer according to the detective on the scene when her body was brought upstairs.
After thorough questioning, what did they learn? Don't forget this either. St. Super Sleuth Capricorn knew when the Ramseys successfully got their friends and pastor to come over that dreadful morning, the R's were guilty. This is the caliber of these unappreciated but soon to be widely recognized detectives without evidence but tons of female intuition.
They would do well to grow up, throw off their evil filthy rags and become more like Lyn, the one true respectable human being and lady on this site.
Lyn, sorry. I don't mean to embarrass you. It doesn't hurt to rub salt in their jealous wounds, though.
Franky, you know you're my dear buddy and I love you to bits, but I'm in a very difficult situation here and I don't know how to deal with it. After months of conflict, Capricorn and I have made our peace. We've apologized and forgiven each other and we want to turn over a new leaf. My soul feels cleansed, Franky, and I feel a thousand times better now that I have a friend rather than an enemy.

There's good and bad in every human being and today I saw a really very nice side to Capricorn. The good in her truly shone through as she was so understanding and forgiving of my past nastiness to her.

It goes without saying I think the world of you, Franky. You're a dear, very precious person and having you as a friend means so much to me. But I'm caught up in an impossible situation as I want to be friends with both you and Capricorn but the two of you are old enemies and I don't want to offend either of you.

You know what my dearest wish is right now, Franky? Nothing would make me more happy than if you and Capricorn could bury the hatchet. I know it's a lot to hope for as you both have grudges against each other, but it doesn't have to be that way. I'm not necessarily hoping you could become friends, although that would be wonderful, but just that you both let your past grudges go enough not to be enemies anymore.

Apologizing is not always easy and sometimes forgiveness takes time, but it can be done. Perhaps both you and Capricorn can give it some thought? If the day ever comes that the two of you let go your grievances, it will be my own personal Thanksgiving day. Will you give it some thought, Franky? Please?(And you too, please Capricorn?)

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving day tomorrow. Whatever you do, enjoy it and have lots of fun. Go well and God bless.

PS - No need to apologize to me, Franky. I know you wouldn't intentionally hurt me.
Charlie Chan

Lihue, HI

#25 Nov 24, 2010
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
In your OPINION. IMO there is PLENTY of evidence of an intruder.
I used the adjective "CREDIBLE". There was no CREDIBLE evidence of an intruder. If you can find PLENTY CREDIBLE evidence of an intruder, please bring it on.
CC
Charlie Chan

Lihue, HI

#27 Nov 24, 2010
Lynette wrote:
<quoted text> I understand what you're saying, Charlie. The article to the link you posted says RF arrived at 5.59am and Veitch and Fernie arrived after 5.59am. The Whites apparently arrived at 6.03 am, but Fernie arrived before the Whites. So IOW, Fernie arrived sometime between 5.59 and 6.03am, leaving his footprints in the snow. Truth is, I don't think anyone really knows to the nearest minute what time anyone arrived as I doubt they were looking at their watches. Those times are probably estimates. But Fernie apparently arrived so soon after the first two police officers, that it's doubtful the police would have had time to look for footprints in the snow before he arrived. To the best of my understanding Paul Reichenbach was the first cop to look for footprints in the snow and he only arrived at 6.45am, by which time there were already a number of people in the Ramsey residence. So I stand firm in my opinion that there were in fact footprints in the snow.
Hi Lynette,
There must be an error somewhere.
The 911 call was made at 5:52AM. In that phone call, PR gave details as to the crime, and of course, her address, and whatever other information the dispatcher asked for. THEN, the phone was not properly hung up, causing the controversial enhanced tape with Burke's voice. I will not get into Burke's voice, because I cannot find anything that will verify the findings on it, BUT, for sure, the phone was still off the hook causing either Burke's voice OR at least a blank period until the phone was hanged up properly. The dispatcher has the radio to inform the uniformed patrolman to go there immediately, so the police arrive at 5:59, seven minutes after the call was made.

Now, Patsy calls the Whites, the Fernies, and the pastor, and they arrive at the home within minutes???? I would like to know what John Fernie was doing when the phone call to his home was made? Was he fully dressed and ready to leave? How did he look when he arrived? Obviously, he was dressed for the cold weather to go outside to look around. I really, REALLY doubt that John Fernie came at 6:03AM UNLESS Patsy called him before making the 911 call. IF she did call the Fernies before making the 911 call, I wonder what the heck she was doing!?

Something is very screwed up here, but I really doubt that we will get anywhere with this one. How far in minutes did John Fernie live from the Ramseys home?

The timeline I read, does not give as specific time of John Fernie's arrival to the Ramsey home, it says "after 5:59". Also, it says that Patsy called 911, the Whites, the pastor, and the Fernies at 5:52, which is impossible.

This could be the ineptness of the BPD, but something is messed up here.

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