Since: Jul 14

Location hidden

#23 Jul 27, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
Of necessity, apparently, they were celebrating Christmas twice that year. Could Patsy have wanted to preserve the tradition of Christmas with Santa and the works? Hence, the "secret" visit? The Ramseys may not have wanted Jonbenet's friends to feel left out (or to set her straight about Santa) because they weren't getting a second visit. Seems Jonbenet may have "one upped" her friend and, in the process, let the cat out of the bag? I don't remember whether the BPD asked John and Patsy about that "secret" visit. I am assuming they did---does anyone remember their explanation?
April 30, 1997

TT: JonBenet got a letter from the secret Santa. Do you know who the secret Santa was?
PR: Ah, secret Santa. Where did she get the letter?
TT: I’m not sure that she got the letter.
PR: In school or, they had a secret, I know a secret sister thing at the pageant in the summer time, but I don’t remember it being any secret Santa.
TT: Any secret Santa that she talked about or anything like that?
PR: No. Burke had a little secret something at school around Christmas time, he had to bring a little gift for her, and kept getting it. But I don’t remember any of this secret Santa.
TT: Did he do anything like that in school?
PR: Not that I remember.
TT: But Burke did have a secret Santa?
PR: Burke had a little secret. He was supposed to bring a little gift, I think, little finger gifts, and he forgot, you know. He had some little girl and he forgot about it until the last day. But I don’t remember JonBenet having that.
Note

Flint, MI

#24 Aug 21, 2014
The kitchen was next to wear the ransom note was left. The kitchen was newly remodel and had a new dish washer. Taking dishes out of the fresh and clean dishwasher will leave some new finger prints. It would be most common that the mother prints from unloading the dishes would be on every item. Many time children in the home may help load and unload the dishwasher, so prints on the bowl and glass would be common.
Case facts and black fibers found at the crime scene predict that the killer ware fingerless wool gloves at some point in the house. Fingerless gloves are commly used by rock climbers and trail guilds because the uncovered tips helps with tying knots in cords and ropes. Fibers will come off these glover at the crime scene.
Lab notes:
Was the white glass bowl filed with fresh cut pineapple and a tall clear glass cup with a tea bag place inside it a clue left by the killer. The killer printed the letters S.B.C.T. at the end of the ransom note. Was this a clue to who the killer was.
Lets look close at the items on the dining room glass table.
S.= Silver spoon - place in the white glass bowl with fresh cut pineapple.
B.= Bowl - Glass bowl fill full of fresh cut pineapple.
C.= Cup - The tall cup was the type use for cold drinks, not used for hot tea, no handle.
T.= Tea bag - A used tea bag found place inside a dinking cup.
A very large silver spoon was place in pineapple, real silver will tarnish when use with pineapple, not a good choice for acid type food. The serving spoon was to large to be use for the mouth. This special serving spoon was stored in a china cabnet next to wear the ransom note was place.
To make tea, one would add hot water, a tea cup is commonly used with a handle, not a cold water drinking cup. A cup with out a handle would be to hot to handle.
Was the message here that when one's travel to a nice place, one would drink Ice tea with fine dining service, serve with fine silver spoons and a place that grow tropical fruits like pineapple cut fresh or garnish on top of a ice cold ice tea cup by the pool. JonBenet was place in a very cold place.
The killer shows anger toward John in the ransom note. Many have said that the killer knew him by using his name near the end of the ransom note.
Was the connection between John and the killer in a location where ice tea was served and at a location that grows pineapple and has fine dining that uses silver spoons.
Was their connection TARNISH, and the items found on the table the clues of placing a real siver spoon in with a bowl of fresh cut pineapple. Tarnish.
The ransom note has been said by many to be printed by a female. Did the connection go bad, tarinsh.
Many business meatings are out by the pool eating tropical fruites from the top of the drinks and served with lots of ice cold tea in drinking cups and the food served with real silver. Fine dining.
John business had him traveling most of the time, JonBenet told the yard man she wish her dad would spend more time at home that year.
S. B. C. T. Was this a clue left by the killer that only John could know.

The Lab.

Since: Jul 14

Location hidden

#25 Aug 22, 2014
Fiona wrote:
Well apologies for that. I'd have thought a case 17 years old would have already been discussed from every angle, yet here we still are. I didn't think taking up "room" on a webpage was too much of an inconvenience but if so, I will just read discussions from years ago rather than engage in fresh chats.
Fiona, do I know you?
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#26 Aug 23, 2014
soontobecut wrote:
<quoted text>The reason you got such a hostile response Fiona is that this is an RDI board and the topic you mentioned is one that does not fit with their theory and they would very much like it to go away
Strange, that is exactly what happens when I post my theories on an IDI thread. Human nature, don't you think?

Since: Jul 14

Location hidden

#27 Aug 24, 2014
Blackstone Again wrote:
<quoted text>
Fiona, do I know you?
How many other topics has Fiona started and then disappeared. I counted two.
Maqa

San Jose, CA

#29 Aug 29, 2014
It might be that Burke did it accidentally.

Another possibility is that the Ramseys allowed another person to enter, who accidentally killed JonBenet.
Remember:* The kitchen door was found unlocked.
* "Santa" McReynolds told her she was going to get another "Santa" visit after Xmas.
* JonBenet reported previously being in a dark place with people in robes.
* A witness reported being ritually molested by a group with members connected to the Boulder area
* Evan Ravitz researched the ritual abuse ring around Boulder;
see evanravitz.com/ravitz/guest.html
* The grand jury felt that there was evidence that the Ramseys "allowed" another access to JBR.
* Detective Tom Wickman said he was forced to "back off " prosecuting a highly placed citizen in the case.

I think that JB and Burke were both exposed to ritual child abuse; there was to be a person come and continue the practice with JB on the eve after Xmas; something went wrong & she was accidentally asphyxiated; the Ramseys tried to cover it up for obvious reasons.

In this case, it was neither the family who actually did it nor was it an "intruder".
Rupert

Waterford, Canada

#30 Sep 3, 2014
Maqa wrote:
It might be that Burke did it accidentally.
Another possibility is that the Ramseys allowed another person to enter, who accidentally killed JonBenet.
Remember:* The kitchen door was found unlocked.
* "Santa" McReynolds told her she was going to get another "Santa" visit after Xmas.
* JonBenet reported previously being in a dark place with people in robes.
* A witness reported being ritually molested by a group with members connected to the Boulder area
* Evan Ravitz researched the ritual abuse ring around Boulder;
see evanravitz.com/ravitz/guest.html
* The grand jury felt that there was evidence that the Ramseys "allowed" another access to JBR.
* Detective Tom Wickman said he was forced to "back off " prosecuting a highly placed citizen in the case.
I think that JB and Burke were both exposed to ritual child abuse; there was to be a person come and continue the practice with JB on the eve after Xmas; something went wrong & she was accidentally asphyxiated; the Ramseys tried to cover it up for obvious reasons.
In this case, it was neither the family who actually did it nor was it an "intruder".
I never heard before that: "JonBenet reported previously being in a dark place with people in robes." Can you provide the source on that.

That Santa guy was not my kind of Santa. He seemed to want to get too close to the family. I read the whole MW story and wonder how she's doing financially. I've forgotten how close Highlands Ranch is to Arvada.

I don't think the Ramseys or their friends wanted anything but just a good Christmas for their children.

Remember that the Grand Jury was finished in 1998 before MW appeared in 2000. So I'm wondering what you're thinking about the grand jury feeling "there was evidence that the Ramseys "allowed" another access to JBR." I just don't see how that could be. John had loads of money.

As to the asphyxiation, I just don't see how it could be an accident. The ligature marks and petechnia look too severe for just an accidental tightening. Perhaps she was 'accidently' left hanging from the rafters, but I don't see how anyone could risk her being a witness. I think this was done by vengeance, rather than accident. I have also reflected back on the words of a profiler describing vegeance which is directed towards something real or even just perceived. I respect your line of thinking and suggest perhaps there are various ways to think about it.

Since: Jul 14

Location hidden

#31 Sep 4, 2014
Rupert wrote:
<quoted text>
I never heard before that: "JonBenet reported previously being in a dark place with people in robes." Can you provide the source on that.
That Santa guy was not my kind of Santa. He seemed to want to get too close to the family. I read the whole MW story and wonder how she's doing financially. I've forgotten how close Highlands Ranch is to Arvada.
I don't think the Ramseys or their friends wanted anything but just a good Christmas for their children.
Remember that the Grand Jury was finished in 1998 before MW appeared in 2000. So I'm wondering what you're thinking about the grand jury feeling "there was evidence that the Ramseys "allowed" another access to JBR." I just don't see how that could be. John had loads of money.
As to the asphyxiation, I just don't see how it could be an accident. The ligature marks and petechnia look too severe for just an accidental tightening. Perhaps she was 'accidently' left hanging from the rafters, but I don't see how anyone could risk her being a witness. I think this was done by vengeance, rather than accident. I have also reflected back on the words of a profiler describing vegeance which is directed towards something real or even just perceived. I respect your line of thinking and suggest perhaps there are various ways to think about it.
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/jonbentramseys...
See item 12 ref black robed people
Char1956

Beardstown, IL

#32 Sep 4, 2014
I know that a lot of people have different ideas about who did it. I personally think that what M'Linda Kula wrote makes a lot of sense to me if anyone has really read her whole story. But I wonder has she tried to send her story somehow to John Ramsey? Could he be protecting someone that has done this horrible crime simply because he was his son albeit illegit? I often wonder if Burke was woke up in the night and warned by this William Ramsey she talks about and he told him would be killed if he uttered a word to anyone. Thoughts anyone??
Rupert

Waterford, Canada

#33 Sep 4, 2014
Blackstone Again wrote:
<quoted text>
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/jonbentramseys...
See item 12 ref black robed people
I won't quote a word from the above site whose author is of course "Anonymous". Elizabeth Ramsey unfortunately died in 1992 with her fiance in a car accident. It was clearly explained and was a great loss to John. For anyone who can then twist such a tragedy into the murder of his beloved daughter by John himself is absolutely pure evil. It's just more sensationalism and tries to make blood money off this tragedy.
Maqa

San Jose, CA

#34 Sep 15, 2014
To Rupert:
"Remember that the Grand Jury was finished in 1998 before MW appeared in 2000. So I'm wondering what you're thinking about the grand jury feeling "there was evidence that the Ramseys "allowed" another access to JBR." I just don't see how that could be. John had loads of money."
The grand jury indicted both parents on two counts:
" On or between Dec. 25 and Dec. 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colo.,[the Ramseys] did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."
" On or between Dec. 25 and Dec. 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colo.,[the Ramseys] did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death."
1996 Grand Jury Indictments for JonBenet Ramseys Parents
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/10/26...
(They did not specify whether the "person" was one of them, or some other person known to them.)
The asphyxiation need not have been deliberate, it could have been an attempt just to silence her, a part of a sex ritual, or a coverup of what was thought to be her prior immediate death from the head blow, which could have also been just an attempt to silence her.
Rupert

Waterford, Canada

#35 Sep 16, 2014
Maqa wrote:
To Rupert:
"Remember that the Grand Jury was finished in 1998 before MW appeared in 2000. So I'm wondering what you're thinking about the grand jury feeling "there was evidence that the Ramseys "allowed" another access to JBR." I just don't see how that could be. John had loads of money."
The grand jury indicted both parents on two counts:
" On or between Dec. 25 and Dec. 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colo.,[the Ramseys] did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen."
" On or between Dec. 25 and Dec. 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colo.,[the Ramseys] did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death."
1996 Grand Jury Indictments for JonBenet Ramseys Parents
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/10/26...
(They did not specify whether the "person" was one of them, or some other person known to them.)
The asphyxiation need not have been deliberate, it could have been an attempt just to silence her, a part of a sex ritual, or a coverup of what was thought to be her prior immediate death from the head blow, which could have also been just an attempt to silence her.
Hi Maqua,

I read the motions for vote to indict and of course we're wondering what made them draw up those conclusions. Basically the GJ surmised that John and/or Patsy allowed JonBenet to be put in a dangerous situation by some person and then helped that person who was actually under suspicion to avoid prosecution.

The first part is the act during the murder. The second part is the coverup which might have been added just in case the first part didn't stick. Both were named in order to put pressure on one of them to break. It makes me wonder if the GJ really knew in detail what had happened and just wanted to put pressure on the Ramseys. Nothing more has been released so what ensues is speculation. Kind of like a continuation of the BPD. John said it will be "just more drama".

People under the "umbrella of suspicion" at that time were of course the parents and I don't know if that could imply a sibling or not.

If they were involved in some kind of cult and I don't they were, then okay. Like I said in a previous post, I read all about MW but I think JR and FW wanted nothing but a good family christmas.

However, somebody might have cropped up from the past to do some damage and make some real money and not just $118k and not just from the Ramsey. Or, it could be that someone local was duped into believing about some past that was exaggerated.

It seems to me that if they release the rest of the vote for indictment, then they would have to release all the testimony and evidence. It's just unfair to be prosecuted in the court of public opinion without the facts and some sort of defense.
Rupert

Waterford, Canada

#36 Sep 16, 2014
candy wrote:
Santa had a head full of hair and a full beard an NO HAIRS resembling his were found anywhere near the crime scene. "Santa" is another false suspect from Team Scamsey. No one is interested in Team Scamsey's lies, disinformation and false suspects, and publishers won't publish books that peddle them.
Candy, are you suggesting the Ramseys asked their friend to tell that story about the Secret Santa Visit and thus take the spotlight off them?

Of course that would be quite a conspiracy and I doubt that most of the "Team" would allow that to happen. Indeed, I began to ask myself why would anyone go along with that.

It then occurred to me that we actually don't know for sure what was said. JonBenet can't confirm it.

Police, profilers and pretty much everyone say you need to start at the home and go out from there to their friends and social aquaintances.

Just wondering, Rupe
berrytea333

Saint Louis, MO

#37 Oct 4, 2014
Fiona wrote:
I've read in a couple of places that a witness said Jonbenet was expecting a visit from a "Secret Santa" the night of her death. Anyone know more about this? Could Jonbenet have expected someone that night that the family weren't aware of?
The following exchange took place between Barbara Kostanik (mother of JonBenet's friend Megan) and JonBenet in the Kostanik home on the afternoon of Dec 24, 1996:

Then JonBent said,Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas. I thought she was confused.Christmas is tonight, I told her.And Santa will be coming tonight.No, no, JonBent insisted.He said this would be after Christmas. And its a secret. https://kindle.amazon.com/work/perfect-murder...

I think it's quite possible that John Ramsey was referring to himself as being Santa when he told this to JonBenet.
Rupert

Waterford, Canada

#38 Oct 4, 2014
berrytea333 wrote:
<quoted text>
The following exchange took place between Barbara Kostanik (mother of JonBenet's friend Megan) and JonBenet in the Kostanik home on the afternoon of Dec 24, 1996:
Then JonBent said,Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas. I thought she was confused.Christmas is tonight, I told her.And Santa will be coming tonight.No, no, JonBent insisted.He said this would be after Christmas. And its a secret. https://kindle.amazon.com/work/perfect-murder...
I think it's quite possible that John Ramsey was referring to himself as being Santa when he told this to JonBenet.
Good grief! Don't you RDI's know that Santa comes but only once a year? Now, your going to have to twist like Steve Thomas in order to bend innocent minds into believing that Santa, Christmas and Christ hapen every day. LOLLY, I for one, know that Santa comes but only once a year! And she's pretty! And the beat goes on.
Rupe
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#39 Oct 5, 2014
berrytea333 wrote:
<quoted text>
The following exchange took place between Barbara Kostanik (mother of JonBenet's friend Megan) and JonBenet in the Kostanik home on the afternoon of Dec 24, 1996:
Then JonBent said,Santa Claus promised that he would make a secret visit after Christmas. I thought she was confused.Christmas is tonight, I told her.And Santa will be coming tonight.No, no, JonBent insisted.He said this would be after Christmas. And its a secret. https://kindle.amazon.com/work/perfect-murder...
I think it's quite possible that John Ramsey was referring to himself as being Santa when he told this to JonBenet.
Jonbenet does not say that Santa, himself, in person, promised her that he would make a secret visit, only that "Santa promised" he would make a secret visit. I think Patsy told Jonbenet that tale, in order to explain the Christmas they were going to have for John's other children when they reached Charlevoix. It only makes sense. And she would tell Jonbenet to not mention it to her friends in an effort to preserve their Christmas tradition and not make the other children feel left out because Santa wasn't visiting them twice.(And just like a little girl that might want to feel a little more important, Jonbenet did brag about the fact to her friend.) If you look at this from a simple, commonsense point of view, it works.
Rupert

Waterford, Canada

#40 Oct 5, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Jonbenet does not say that Santa, himself, in person, promised her that he would make a secret visit, only that "Santa promised" he would make a secret visit. I think Patsy told Jonbenet that tale, in order to explain the Christmas they were going to have for John's other children when they reached Charlevoix. It only makes sense. And she would tell Jonbenet to not mention it to her friends in an effort to preserve their Christmas tradition and not make the other children feel left out because Santa wasn't visiting them twice.(And just like a little girl that might want to feel a little more important, Jonbenet did brag about the fact to her friend.) If you look at this from a simple, commonsense point of view, it works.
I guess anything is possible and kind of park it over there for the time being. Just remember that JonBenet told that to Barb Kostanick at noon the very next day after the Ramsey Christmas party on Dec 23. So JonBenet was likely told this during the party or the next morning. Megan might also be a witness, but note this was recounted by her Barb.

I have examined the Dec 23rd party thoroughly and there is no doubt in my mind that Santa phoned up Patsy on the Friday afternoon of Dec 20 and pleaded with her to have the party. Patsy and John were not going to have a Christmas party that year because they were so busy with other plans. They were not in touch with Santa until he called that Friday afternoon. Santa said Charles Kuralt was going to be in town following him around, but of course never showed and was never planning to. Santa did a party on Saturday, Sunday, the Ramseys early Monday, and then a final one later that Monday night. It aroused suspicion regarding Kuralt and was later reported in the local news.

The above account by Barb Kostanick is of course really just her own account only and I can tell you it raised suspicions in itself.
berrytea333

Saint Louis, MO

#41 Oct 5, 2014
Rupert wrote:
<quoted text>
Good grief! Don't you RDI's know that Santa comes but only once a year?
Santa only comes once a year? Wow. No wonder he and Mrs. Claus never had any kids.
Rupert

Waterford, Canada

#42 Oct 5, 2014
berrytea333 wrote:
<quoted text>
Santa only comes once a year? Wow. No wonder he and Mrs. Claus never had any kids.
Yeah, but OMG every household?

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#43 Oct 6, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>Jonbenet does not say that Santa, himself, in person, promised her that he would make a secret visit, only that "Santa promised" he would make a secret visit. I think Patsy told Jonbenet that tale, in order to explain the Christmas they were going to have for John's other children when they reached Charlevoix. It only makes sense. And she would tell Jonbenet to not mention it to her friends in an effort to preserve their Christmas tradition and not make the other children feel left out because Santa wasn't visiting them twice.(And just like a little girl that might want to feel a little more important, Jonbenet did brag about the fact to her friend.) If you look at this from a simple, commonsense point of view, it works.
Schiller makes it quite clear that BK believed JonBenét was referencing Santa Bill.

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