“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#1940 Nov 29, 2012
Congrats for getting 3 FDI comments all in one post!
Henri McPhee wrote:
It's nice to see this old Fleet White thread again. Topix seems to be in a deletion mood at the moment, which is a bit worrying.
It reminds me of the old days when people like Holly amd Morgan/cheekysodd and Mary were posting their Fleet did it opinions on other forums, with which I entirely agreed.
Jack is a man of sense. I think Ashley was on the right track about Fleet White, though she seemed to rely on female intuition, and I think was a little too easily swayed by any DNA reports. It's a pity she has vanished from the forums.
Biz and Deb and Mame were sympathetic to the Fleet did it theories.
There were others, like VinegarGirl, who posted that Fleet did it. It's not just me who thinks this way.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1941 Nov 29, 2012
Henri McPhee wrote:
It's nice to see this old Fleet White thread again. Topix seems to be in a deletion mood at the moment, which is a bit worrying.

It reminds me of the old days when people like Holly amd Morgan/cheekysodd and Mary were posting their Fleet did it opinions on other forums, with which I entirely agreed.

Jack is a man of sense. I think Ashley was on the right track about Fleet White, though she seemed to rely on female intuition, and I think was a little too easily swayed by any DNA reports. It's a pity she has vanished from the forums.

Biz and Deb and Mame were sympathetic to the Fleet did it theories.

There were others, like VinegarGirl, who posted that Fleet did it. It's not just me who thinks this way.
You are correct, Henri. Rest assured, you are definitely not alone.

There are many IDIs who feel FW Jr. knows more than he has shared with LE about what might have occurred that fateful night, the events leading up to the murder, and the mystery that unfolded in the months following JBR's death....so much that he was willing to ignore a subpoena and serve jail time. Then, when deposed before the GJ he seemed not to recall a thing, though he was John Ramsey's best friend, was with the Ramseys on the 25th, and was present the morning of the 26th taking notes.

The information available to the public with regard to FW Jr. is disheartening. His actions and behavior before and after the murder were bizarre.

Compound all this with Fleet's and ST's friendship, his affiliation with Tal Jones, the White's letters, NK/her treatment by Boulder LE, etc., and it becomes quite clear that FW Jr. had more control over the direction of the investigation than that of a "normal" private citizen.

We DO know, for a period of time, he was considered one of the top three suspects in the case, along with BMcR and CW. Also, DA Alex Hunter had obvious reservations with regard to his actions and the possibility of his involvement.

However, Jr.'s DNA did not match. One would think this would settle any unease stemming from an investigation into the possibility of his status as a POI/suspect. Yet, this did not stop him from hindering any further inquiries about his knowledge, as a witness, of the events surrounding the crime and answering questions that might be posed with regard to his family.

Hunter described Fleet's large stature and a feeling he had in Presumed Guilty. Well, my feeling is the answers to many elements of this mystery are larger than FW Jr., himself, and he knows it. He admitted before the court, regarding his subpoena in the Tom Miller suit, that he was obligated to protect his family. Protect them from what exactly? Assuredly he was not concerned about their safety with regard to any intruder suspect or the Ramseys. So, these questions remain: What is FW so determined to keep hidden?...and WHY?

Since: Sep 11

Boksburg, South Africa

#1942 Nov 29, 2012
DrSeussMd wrote:
There is a primary difference Lynette in the Ramseys and FW.
One of them has told the police everything he knows - and that person is FW. He may hold secrets from you, but NOT from the police.
How do you know he's told the police everything he knows, Seuss? How can you be so sure?
DrSeussMd wrote:
The IDIs in general either don't understand why he did what he did in depositions, or they don't want to understand. My guess is the latter. It has been posted hundreds of times so I won't bother posting it again.
Some people just like to bash him, Henri is one of those people.
Please don't tell me he's saving what he knows for the day the case comes to trial. I've heard it all before and I don't believe it.

I seriously doubt Henri or anyone else "bashes" Fleet just for the fun of it. Fleet is a dark horse and there's a mystery surrounding him which has made people curious and therefore suspicious. The only person who can change that is Fleet himself and if he's innocent and has nothing to hide, why doesn't he?

“YES”

Since: Mar 07

TWICE

#1943 Nov 29, 2012
For the uninformed:

It was not his (FW)deposition from the GJ; it was the Wolfe case…and the Ramseys were just on a fact finding mission to see what information the police had on them…FW had NO REASON to be at the Wolfe case depo

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#1944 Nov 29, 2012
As declared by the police, FW is a material witness not a suspect. So you can erroneously consider him whatever you want, but you are NOT the authorities, who HAVE cleared him.

Sidenote: The POLICE never cleared the Ramseys, only Lacy to save face

Fleet and Priscilla White
April 16, 1997 Boulder Press Release #40
“Mr. and Mrs. Fleet White, Jr. are not suspects in the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation. They are considered key witnesses.

http:// www.acandyrose.com/s-fleet-priscilla - white.htm

Updated at 07:57:04 AM MDT Friday, April 18, 1997
Ramseys glad friends no longer suspects

Camera staff

The decision to eliminate a local oil executive and his wife as suspects in the JonBenet Ramsey homicide pleases the slain beauty queen's parents, a spokeswoman said Thursday.

"Fleet and Priscilla White have been good friends to us," said family spokeswoman Rachelle Zimmer, reading a statement from the Ramsey family attorneys. "We are gratified to know that the Boulder Police Department has officially cleared them as suspects in the murder of our daughter. We hope that this announcement will give them some relief from the terrible stress of this situation.”

"It is also our hope that the Boulder Police Department will continue to clear the names of all those who have been unfairly tainted by suspicion."
Lynette 22 wrote:
Fleet is a dark horse and there's a mystery surrounding him which has made people curious and therefore suspicious. The only person who can change that is Fleet himself and if he's innocent and has nothing to hide, why doesn't he?
Henri McPhee

Harrow, UK

#1945 Nov 29, 2012
Capricorn wrote:
For the uninformed:
It was not his (FW)deposition from the GJ; it was the Wolfe case…and the Ramseys were just on a fact finding mission to see what information the police had on them…FW had NO REASON to be at the Wolfe case depo
I'm not an American, but as far as I can judge a lawyer can subpoena witnesses to attend a court case like the Chris Wolf v Ramsey case in 2001. That means that you must attend that court case or you risk being sent to jail by the judge.

Fleet White was given a subpoena to attend the Ramsey related Tom Miller case in about 2000/2001. Fleet White just refused to attend that court case on the grounds that Tom Miller was a tabloid hack and the judge then sent Fleet White to jail for a few months.

The Ramsey lawyers, and probably Darnay Hoffman, wanted Fleet White to attend that Chris Wolf case. That was because they wanted to establish the truth, and Fleet White supposedly being the Boulder police key witness could help establish the truth.

Instead Fleet had a bad attack of amnesia and he either couldn't recall anything except his name, or he refused to answer questions. I regard that as highly suspicious and I'm not the only person who thinks that.

Steve Thomas wanted his deposition sealed as well, but it was made public after media pressure. The mainstream media never bothered about Fleet White's deposition even though it's relevant to the Ramsey case.

I can't for the life of me understand why Vincent's postings and threads have now been deleted. Either there has been a change of management at Topix, or Capricorn and Koldkase have been complaining about IDI postings again.

I think Candy could explain the background to all this a bit better than me because she was one of Darnay's paralegals during the Chis Wolf case. I know she has been quite outspoken about Fleet White's, and Steve Thomas's, behavior with regard to refusing to attend court cases in the past.

There is an interesting opinion about Fleet White on the internet from an unlikely source on a well-known anti-Ramsey outlet:

"I think FW is the only one who can clear his name. His letters do not do that, IMO. I think he knows things he's not telling, even in the GJ. If he would come forward and say, write a book, containing full diclosure i think this would be all settled. IMO I don't think he thinks this crime will ever be prosecuted so that is why he doesn't do that. To what avail? I am in the FW camp but I don't think he will ever tell all he knows."
Henri McPhee

Harrow, UK

#1946 Nov 29, 2012
There is some background information to all this in the Beckner deposition in 2001:

5 MR. MILLER: And without knowing who all's
6 depositions you have we would be interested in any
7 depositions of anybody that sheds any light on this
8 whole matter.
9 MR. WOOD: Okay. We're here. We're going
10 to try to get some more. I can tell you that Fleet
11 White is under subpoena from Darnay Hoffman. We
12 expect to depose him in December. His lawyer said
13 he's going to honor his subpoena.
14 MR. MILLER: Good luck.
15 MR. WOOD: Is he still in jail? Don't
16 answer that.
17 Q (BY MR. WOOD) If Chris Wolf has indicated
18 to us that he was told by members of the Boulder
19 Police Department that he had been cleared, he's
20 either -- he's mistaken or he's misunderstood what
21 somebody has said to him; is that fair?
22 A Oh, somebody may have used those words.
23 Q But that would not have been an accurate
24 description?
25 A Not in terms of officially, no.
Steve Eller

United States

#1947 Nov 29, 2012
Nice job Capricorn! Though, please send them an apology for interrupting their sci fi soap opera in progress regarding Fleet White.

Since: Sep 11

Boksburg, South Africa

#1948 Nov 30, 2012
DrSeussMd wrote:
As declared by the police, FW is a material witness not a suspect. So you can erroneously consider him whatever you want, but you are NOT the authorities, who HAVE cleared him.
Sidenote: The POLICE never cleared the Ramseys, only Lacy to save face
Fleet and Priscilla White
April 16, 1997 Boulder Press Release #40
“Mr. and Mrs. Fleet White, Jr. are not suspects in the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation. They are considered key witnesses.
http:// www.acandyrose.com/s-fleet-priscilla - white.htm
Updated at 07:57:04 AM MDT Friday, April 18, 1997
Ramseys glad friends no longer suspects
Camera staff
The decision to eliminate a local oil executive and his wife as suspects in the JonBenet Ramsey homicide pleases the slain beauty queen's parents, a spokeswoman said Thursday.
"Fleet and Priscilla White have been good friends to us," said family spokeswoman Rachelle Zimmer, reading a statement from the Ramsey family attorneys. "We are gratified to know that the Boulder Police Department has officially cleared them as suspects in the murder of our daughter. We hope that this announcement will give them some relief from the terrible stress of this situation.”
"It is also our hope that the Boulder Police Department will continue to clear the names of all those who have been unfairly tainted by suspicion."
<quoted text>
The police were too incompetent to adhere to even the most elementary crime scene protocols, they behaved like utter buffoons, and now you expect me to take it seriously that they "cleared" Fleet White? They'd have been happy to clear satan as long as his name wasn't "Ramsey".

But I appreciate you posting that statement by the Ramseys. So much for you RDI always saying the Ramseys threw everyone under the bus. Innocent people were hurt, but that was not the Ramseys doing nor is it what they wanted. That article proves it.

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#1949 Nov 30, 2012
The article proves the Ramseys made a kind statement after the Whites were cleared, that is all and maybe it was from guilt. The Ramseys were also the ones who threw them under the bus. I think they were only righting a previous wrong, but duly noted if that is what it really was and not just a sound byte.
Lynette 22 wrote:
But I appreciate you posting that statement by the Ramseys. So much for you RDI always saying the Ramseys threw everyone under the bus. Innocent people were hurt, but that was not the Ramseys doing nor is it what they wanted. That article proves it.

Since: Sep 11

Boksburg, South Africa

#1950 Nov 30, 2012
DrSeussMd wrote:
The article proves the Ramseys made a kind statement after the Whites were cleared, that is all and maybe it was from guilt. The Ramseys were also the ones who threw them under the bus. I think they were only righting a previous wrong, but duly noted if that is what it really was and not just a sound byte.
<quoted text>
The Ramseys and the Whites were good friends, some may even say best friends, until JonBenet was murdered. Then, just when the Ramseys most needed the comfort and support of good friends to help them through that terrible time, the Whites turned their backs on the Ramseys. It started from the moment Fleet arrived at the Ramseys' home on the 26th. Rather than offer comfort and words of encouragement and support to his friends, which would be the normal thing to do, Fleet headed straight for the basement, supposedly on the pretext of searching for JonBenet. There was a ransom note, no reason to believe JonBenet was in the house. So what did Fleet go down there for?

At no point did Fleet ever show any concern or caring for the Ramseys, nor for that matter, for JonBenet. Instead his behaviour just became more and more bizarre and then he terminated his friendship with the Ramseys altogether. Then he befriended Steve Thomas, one of the Ramseys' staunchest enemies, and called for a special prosecutor because of Alex Hunter's reluctance to have the Ramseys arrested. Fleet wanted the Ramseys behind bars, that much he made clear. Some friend he was! So just who exactly threw who under the bus?

You may argue that Fleet knew or suspected that the Ramseys themselves killed JonBenet and that is why he terminated his friendship with them. If that's the case, don't you think it was his responsibility to approach the police and tell them of his suspicions? Isn't that what a normal person would do? You don't remain loyal to two killers, especially at the cost of your own family's reputation, do you? You don't remain silent for sixteen years and just quietly suffer in silence, do you, while other innocent people are also having their lives and reputations destroyed. Those are not the actions of a conscientious, law-abiding citizen and ethical human being.

You can paint Fleet lily-white, Seuss, and make all the excuses for him that you want, but it doesn't change the facts. Fleet knows something and he's not keeping silent about it to protect the Ramseys. He's keeping silent to protect himself.

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#1951 Nov 30, 2012
In all fairness, Lynette, the only people indicating they were really really close were the Ramseys.

I’m guessing you weren’t there that morning to know what FW did or didn’t do, but yes, he went to the basement to search the house from what we have been told. Why do you find that so nefarious? The police should have done that too. Surely you remember the story of his own daughter who WAS found in HIS house. People learn from their experiences and do things differently the next time.

You are letting your opinions rule the discussion. Here are the things you have no way of knowing, yet stated as fact:
• Rather than offer comfort and words of encouragement and support to his friends, which would be the normal thing to do, Fleet headed straight for the basement, supposedly on the pretext of searching for JonBenet.
• At no point did Fleet ever show any concern or caring for the Ramseys
• Then he befriended Steve Thomas,(that was the other way around)
• called for a special prosecutor because of Alex Hunter's reluctance to have the Ramseys arrested.(He wanted a special prosecutor because the investigation was stalled and going nowhere) Would you mind sourcing his reason was because Hunter wouldn’t arrest the Ramseys?
• don't you think it was his responsibility to approach the police and tell them of his suspicions?(he did – he also spoke to the police EVERY time they requested it WITH NO PRE-SET CONDITIONS)
• Isn't that what a normal person would do?(it is and he did)
• You don't remain loyal to two killers, especially at the cost of your own family's reputation, do you?(wait, aren’t you asking me why they weren’t friends?– Didn’t you just answer your own question that if that was what FW believed he would have / should have terminated the friendship. He did and now you are blaming him for doing what you think he should have done?
• You don't remain silent for sixteen years and just quietly suffer in silence, do you, while other innocent people are also having their lives and reputations destroyed. Those are not the actions of a conscientious, law-abiding citizen and ethical human being.(If they have your deposition which they did, and tell you not to discuss the case, and you don’t, that IS PRECISELY the actions of a law abiding ethical human being)
• Fleet knows something and he's not keeping silent about it to protect the Ramseys. He's keeping silent to protect himself.(That is your presumption based on what? The sky being blue today?)

“YES”

Since: Mar 07

TWICE

#1952 Nov 30, 2012
Common sense dictates:

FW was called BY the Ramseys that morning. Like a FRIEND, he showed up. That is a show of support IMO

FW went to the basement and so did JR...hmmmm...after having already checked it himself yet FW is being blamed

FW was the only friend that witnessed the events and actions of JR, et al first hand.

FW was the only friend that did NOT stand by the Ramseys

FW was the only friend that did NOT stand by the Ramseys and ironically (insert eye roll) who was thrown under the bus and accused of horrendous things by the Ramsey spinners who continue to this day

1+1 = 2 and in this case the end result for the Whites doesn't require rocket science to figure out why FW AND HIS FAMILY were punished by those who would and decided, that retribution for the lack of lemming behavior of all the other friends was the way to keep FW's information "tainted" and make him out to be some sort of loony

His personality lent itself to that sort of punishment by those who took full advantage of it and continue to this day

Those who would encourage the continuation of those insinuations for the sake of painting the Ramseys as some sort of heros or "victims" of FW because he told the truth as he saw and heard it first hand are no better than the criminals they protect

Interesting that those who do that, no names mentioned, are the same posters who themselves have not much going for them in their favor in the way of morality and character

It's interesting but shows that my opinion and evaluation, along with so many others are indeed, correct
deb

Minneapolis, MN

#1953 Dec 2, 2012
fw went to the basement within 10-15 minutes of arriving and looked in the cellar room where her body was. he did not go up stairs or anywhere else - makes one wonder why?

fw told arndt about his daughtrt hiding despite there being a ranson note, despite the HE searched the basement and the police had searched the house, which prompted her to ask him to take john and look round again - makes me wonder why.

fw said he told arndt he did not feel comfortable suggesting to john to look round again - i wonder why he didn't feel comfortable...what's so hard about saying arndt suggested.....? seems to me he wanted the house searched again.

when asked to guard the basement door to prevent anyone frrom going down to the cellar, he went down and picked up the blanket and tape...who would touch evidence in a crime scene? Just makes me wonder if he wanted to explain his prints?

thanks to priscilla, the kitchen counters were wiped down and who knows what else she wiped down.

then he takes notes that morning, tries to take control of the situation at the fernies, tries to prevent anyone from talking to patsy...gotta make u wonder what he was thinking.

in atlanta he causes a scene...priscilla says she knows something...who would cause a scene if they thought the ramseys were guilty? One would think if u thought your friends were guilty you would keep to yourself until u had a chance to talk with le.

why did he state he had no reason to think the ramseys were involved per his depo if he thought they were?

why did he burst into the pastors office and say "u know what i have to do now"

why did he buddy up with st? perps profiles state they do such things.

then, of course,we have nancy.

then we have le stating fw was a scary guy or something to that effect.

then we have fw wiping jb and her sticking close to housekeeper when he was left to watch kids...and then he goes thru johns wallet....just makes one wonder.

we wonder what he did for a liviing. he house went into foreclosure.

imo. fw fits under the radar with a few others based soley on his own actions imo

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1955 Dec 2, 2012
deb wrote:
fw went to the basement within 10-15 minutes of arriving and looked in the cellar room where her body was. he did not go up stairs or anywhere else - makes one wonder why?

fw told arndt about his daughtrt hiding despite there being a ranson note, despite the HE searched the basement and the police had searched the house, which prompted her to ask him to take john and look round again - makes me wonder why.

fw said he told arndt he did not feel comfortable suggesting to john to look round again - i wonder why he didn't feel comfortable...what's so hard about saying arndt suggested.....? seems to me he wanted the house searched again.

when asked to guard the basement door to prevent anyone frrom going down to the cellar, he went down and picked up the blanket and tape...who would touch evidence in a crime scene? Just makes me wonder if he wanted to explain his prints?

thanks to priscilla, the kitchen counters were wiped down and who knows what else she wiped down.

then he takes notes that morning, tries to take control of the situation at the fernies, tries to prevent anyone from talking to patsy...gotta make u wonder what he was thinking.

in atlanta he causes a scene...priscilla says she knows something...who would cause a scene if they thought the ramseys were guilty? One would think if u thought your friends were guilty you would keep to yourself until u had a chance to talk with le.

why did he state he had no reason to think the ramseys were involved per his depo if he thought they were?

why did he burst into the pastors office and say "u know what i have to do now"

why did he buddy up with st? perps profiles state they do such things.

then, of course,we have nancy.

then we have le stating fw was a scary guy or something to that effect.

then we have fw wiping jb and her sticking close to housekeeper when he was left to watch kids...and then he goes thru johns wallet....just makes one wonder.

we wonder what he did for a liviing. he house went into foreclosure.

imo. fw fits under the radar with a few others based soley on his own actions imo
Agreed.
The Truth Hurts

Novi, MI

#1956 Dec 2, 2012
Yeah and what we don't have is any evidence that FW had anything to do with this murder. Not his DNA, not his footprint, not his fibers - nothing.

So funny how you think the things he said and did are so suspicious but the Ramseys get a total pass on everything suspicious they said and did. You know - like calling a bunch of people over despite a ransom note threatening to behead their kid.
Nothing FW did could even come close to that.

And let's not forget that John Ramsey contaminated the crime scene too but of course, he gets that special Ramsey pass.

The problem with you IDI is that you are too hung up on the Ramseys being victims. You can't emotionally distance yourself enough to view the evidence impartially. I just don't get that.
None of us knows who killed JB so why are you all so sickeningly protective of the Ramseys?

BTW, you're so redundant, Deb. We've all discussed FW and all of the things you've brought up before and wait! I thought you were an LHP did it kind of gal.

Ahhh..I forgot. Everyone's a suspect except the Rams, right? In other words, you don't have a clue. ;)
The Truth Hurts

Novi, MI

#1958 Dec 2, 2012
Does your village know that their idiot is missing, AssVipe?
deb

Minneapolis, MN

#1959 Dec 2, 2012
The Truth Hurts wrote:
Yeah and what we don't have is any evidence that FW had anything to do with this murder. Not his DNA, not his footprint, not his fibers - nothing.
So funny how you think the things he said and did are so suspicious but the Ramseys get a total pass on everything suspicious they said and did. You know - like calling a bunch of people over despite a ransom note threatening to behead their kid.
Nothing FW did could even come close to that.
And let's not forget that John Ramsey contaminated the crime scene too but of course, he gets that special Ramsey pass.
The problem with you IDI is that you are too hung up on the Ramseys being victims. You can't emotionally distance yourself enough to view the evidence impartially. I just don't get that.
None of us knows who killed JB so why are you all so sickeningly protective of the Ramseys?
BTW, you're so redundant, Deb. We've all discussed FW and all of the things you've brought up before and wait! I thought you were an LHP did it kind of gal.
Ahhh..I forgot. Everyone's a suspect except the Rams, right? In other words, you don't have a clue. ;)
Who said the Ramseys get passes for the things they did???

Who ever stated he Ramseys were not suspects?(except for the LE)

RDIs state the DNA doesn't count, so I guess that would put FW in the same suspect pool as the Ramseys.

Perhaps it is the RDI who are too hangup on the Ramseys being guilty to see that there are a lot of questions and evidence that could lead to someone else.

I don't think FW did it, but I certainly can see why one would question his behavior. I don't see why you cannot see his behavior as questionable. I would like to know the reasons behind his behavior. Maybe he was afraid he would become a suspect - but then why would he? Why did he become one of the top suspects? There must be more to the story than we know.

One can understand some of the contamination due to John finding his daughter dead. One (me) cannot understand a grown man touching evidence at a murder scene.
deb

Minneapolis, MN

#1960 Dec 2, 2012
Why was FW considered a suspect when the Fernies were not?

Obviously, because FW actions were very suspicious.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1962 Dec 4, 2012
deb wrote:
Why was FW considered a suspect when the Fernies were not?

Obviously, because FW actions were very suspicious.
SO very true...

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