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Heloise

UK

#2323 Jan 15, 2013
I wasn't talking about her not being prosecuted, Candy, I was talking about the collective shoulder-shrugging about it.

That said, impersonating a police officer and arguably attempting to pervert the court of justice aren't trivial in a murder case and, given the money they were prepared to pay to give JMK a DNA test, I seriously suspect that Boulder would have penalised anyone but an RST member if only to shut Lin Wood up. I suspect they'd have taken action in a New York minute if it had been a prominent RDI.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#2324 Jan 15, 2013
Heloise wrote:
I wasn't talking about her not being prosecuted, Candy, I was talking about the collective shoulder-shrugging about it.
That said, impersonating a police officer and arguably attempting to pervert the court of justice aren't trivial in a murder case and, given the money they were prepared to pay to give JMK a DNA test, I seriously suspect that Boulder would have penalised anyone but an RST member if only to shut Lin Wood up. I suspect they'd have taken action in a New York minute if it had been a prominent RDI.
Impersonating someone else is a form of identity theft, and there are laws governing that. I agree with your line of thinking Heloise.

Colo. Rev. Stat.§18-5-901 et seq. Identity theft Class 4 felony
The court shall be required to sentence the defendant to the department of corrections for a term of at least the minimum of the presumptive range and may sentence the defendant to a maximum of twice the presumptive range if:(a) The defendant is convicted of identity theft or of attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit identity theft; and (b) The defendant has a prior conviction for a violation of this part 9 or a prior conviction for an offense committed in any other state, the United States, or any other territory subject to the jurisdiction of the United States that would constitute a violation of this part 9 if committed in this state, or for attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit a violation of this part 9 or for attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit an offense in another jurisdiction that would constitute a violation of this part 9 if committed in this state.

Whether or not this would have qualified, I don't know, but it certainly deserved more than a shoulder shrug.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#2325 Jan 15, 2013
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Impersonating someone else is a form of identity theft, and there are laws governing that. I agree with your line of thinking Heloise.
Colo. Rev. Stat.§18-5-901 et seq. Identity theft Class 4 felony
The court shall be required to sentence the defendant to the department of corrections for a term of at least the minimum of the presumptive range and may sentence the defendant to a maximum of twice the presumptive range if:(a) The defendant is convicted of identity theft or of attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit identity theft; and (b) The defendant has a prior conviction for a violation of this part 9 or a prior conviction for an offense committed in any other state, the United States, or any other territory subject to the jurisdiction of the United States that would constitute a violation of this part 9 if committed in this state, or for attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit a violation of this part 9 or for attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit an offense in another jurisdiction that would constitute a violation of this part 9 if committed in this state.
Whether or not this would have qualified, I don't know, but it certainly deserved more than a shoulder shrug.
You are absolutely correct about this LE. While it may not have garnered prison time or anything requiring a felony punishment, the fact that she opened an email with his name is identity theft, and using that "identity" to email others, searching for information, and other tidbits is also ILLEGAL

Nobody said she would go to prison, etc. but in any other country but Ramseyland, you'd better believe there would have been an arrest and a court date. Not in Ramseyland

You'd better believe that if you or I impersonated anyone relating to this case, and sending emails asking questions, we'd be in orange jumpsuits on our way to court

Anyone but a Ramsey or a Ramsey supporter

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#2326 Jan 15, 2013
Just for S&G, I Googled the subject after reading your post L_E, and so can everyone else if they want to learn more about impersonating a police officer, the offense, the fines, and the charges. Here are a couple of things I found:

1. Impersonation of a Peace/Police Officer in Colorado - C.R.S.-18-8-112 - Impersonating a peace/police officer is a felony in Colorado and is generally accompanied by other felony charges.

2. On another note, it seems the CBI do think impersonating a police officer is a felony:

"Impersonating a police officer is a serious felony offense," said John Bankhead with the GBI in Atlanta.
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Impersonating someone else is a form of identity theft, and there are laws governing that. I agree with your line of thinking Heloise.
Colo. Rev. Stat.§18-5-901 et seq. Identity theft Class 4 felony
The court shall be required to sentence the defendant to the department of corrections for a term of at least the minimum of the presumptive range and may sentence the defendant to a maximum of twice the presumptive range if:(a) The defendant is convicted of identity theft or of attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit identity theft; and (b) The defendant has a prior conviction for a violation of this part 9 or a prior conviction for an offense committed in any other state, the United States, or any other territory subject to the jurisdiction of the United States that would constitute a violation of this part 9 if committed in this state, or for attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit a violation of this part 9 or for attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit an offense in another jurisdiction that would constitute a violation of this part 9 if committed in this state.
Whether or not this would have qualified, I don't know, but it certainly deserved more than a shoulder shrug.
Heloise

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#2327 Jan 15, 2013
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Impersonating someone else is a form of identity theft, and there are laws governing that. I agree with your line of thinking Heloise.
Colo. Rev. Stat.§18-5-901 et seq. Identity theft Class 4 felony
The court shall be required to sentence the defendant to the department of corrections for a term of at least the minimum of the presumptive range and may sentence the defendant to a maximum of twice the presumptive range if:(a) The defendant is convicted of identity theft or of attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit identity theft; and (b) The defendant has a prior conviction for a violation of this part 9 or a prior conviction for an offense committed in any other state, the United States, or any other territory subject to the jurisdiction of the United States that would constitute a violation of this part 9 if committed in this state, or for attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit a violation of this part 9 or for attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit an offense in another jurisdiction that would constitute a violation of this part 9 if committed in this state.
Whether or not this would have qualified, I don't know, but it certainly deserved more than a shoulder shrug.
I agree, LE. Susan Stine had shown utter contempt for the investigation, calling a BPD investigator '@&>!ing incompetent' and, bafflingly, receiving an apology from Beckner for this. She was involved in various capers with Patsy, such as the incident with the reporter and the utter sickness of writing 'and hence' in the 1997 Christmas letter. Then the Beckner impersonation which could actually have derailed the investigation. It isn't as though she is a stupid woman. In fact, she'd regard herself as part of the intelligentsia. She had literally no excuse for this behaviour and yet has felt none of the consequences of her actions. Not unlike Jameson IMO. The legal ramifications may be limited, but I do suspect that there'd have been some creativity about charges if it had been FW who had acted in such a manner.
Heloise

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#2328 Jan 15, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
Just for S&G, I Googled the subject after reading your post L_E, and so can everyone else if they want to learn more about impersonating a police officer, the offense, the fines, and the charges. Here are a couple of things I found:
1. Impersonation of a Peace/Police Officer in Colorado - C.R.S.-18-8-112 - Impersonating a peace/police officer is a felony in Colorado and is generally accompanied by other felony charges.
2. On another note, it seems the CBI do think impersonating a police officer is a felony:
"Impersonating a police officer is a serious felony offense," said John Bankhead with the GBI in Atlanta.
<quoted text>
Thanks, Dr Seuss. That's interesting. So, in fact, it seems as though, had there been any appetite for it, action could have been taken against her. As a matter of interest, she presumably committed the offence in Georgia so I assume she would have been charged there rather than in Boulder so the costs of extradition would have been irrelevant? That said, I know Internet communications are a bit more complicated as regards jurisdiction.
Heloise

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#2329 Jan 15, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
You are absolutely correct about this LE. While it may not have garnered prison time or anything requiring a felony punishment, the fact that she opened an email with his name is identity theft, and using that "identity" to email others, searching for information, and other tidbits is also ILLEGAL
Nobody said she would go to prison, etc. but in any other country but Ramseyland, you'd better believe there would have been an arrest and a court date. Not in Ramseyland
You'd better believe that if you or I impersonated anyone relating to this case, and sending emails asking questions, we'd be in orange jumpsuits on our way to court
Anyone but a Ramsey or a Ramsey supporter
I agree with all that, Cappy. The Ramsey supporters seem to have had a sort of Teflon-coating when it came to any trouble sticking to them. I was just thinking this morning of the blood that was splattered over Linda Arndt's door, the mutilated cat and vandalism in ST's garden and the shots fired at Bob Whitson's house. We don't know who was responsible for this and I am not suggesting it was at the behest of anyone connected with the Ramseys. But, as far as we know, the possibility that these incidents were connected to the investigation was never even investigated...why?
candy

East Lansing, MI

#2330 Jan 15, 2013
Quote: I was talking about the collective shoulder-shrugging about it.

What does THAT mean? They did not "shrug their shoulders", both the DA and BPD wrote cease and desist letters to her, the GBI showed up on her doorstep about it, and she complied. Lacy was the DA at the time, and they didn't do Stine any favors. Any RDI would have been treated the same way, in accordance with the law.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#2331 Jan 15, 2013
This is all that governed that case:

Under Colorado law, Criminal Impersonation is a class 6 felony and Impersonating a Police Officer is a Class I Misdemeanor.

http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index.php...

This is absurd: "The Beckner incident is a primary one, the Smit keeping work product for his personal use and that was ok by the IDI, then complaining when ST did the same thing."

Hunter and Smit had a WRITTEN AGREEMENT about what Smit could use. ST had NO AGREEMENT with anyone about the CASE FILE material he used to write a book. He said in his depo, he didn't STEAL the material, someone "sent" it to him in an unmarked box and when Lin Wood asked him to produce it, he said he didn't know where he put it. The BS ended fast with Thomas caving and settling before the Ramseys could ask ANY more questions of him in their OWN lawsuit. There WAS a person prosecuted for leaks, and that was Sgt. Larry Mason, turned in by Steve Thomas.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#2332 Jan 15, 2013
CONTRACT between Lou Smit and Alex Hunter:

http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03171997smitcont...

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#2334 Jan 15, 2013
Heloise wrote:
I can see why this would give him pause!
BTW, Father Brown, off topic but I thought this would interest you:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/201...
Thanks! I see Father Brown as a lot fatter, though.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#2335 Jan 15, 2013
White wanted copies of his police interviews because the Ramseys got them, just like he wanted his own exonoration letter because they got one. And yes, NO ONE is supposed to get statements of their interviews because the police ARE supposed to be able to use them if you give inconsistent statements. IT MEANS YOU'RE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#2336 Jan 16, 2013
Heloise wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with all that, Cappy. The Ramsey supporters seem to have had a sort of Teflon-coating when it came to any trouble sticking to them. I was just thinking this morning of the blood that was splattered over Linda Arndt's door, the mutilated cat and vandalism in ST's garden and the shots fired at Bob Whitson's house. We don't know who was responsible for this and I am not suggesting it was at the behest of anyone connected with the Ramseys. But, as far as we know, the possibility that these incidents were connected to the investigation was never even investigated...why?
Hi Heloise,

There is no doubt in my mind that the person/s responsible for those "incidents" were at the behest of EVERYONE connected with the Ramseys and the first person I think of is John's buddy, Midyette, who is quite capable of doing those things or had someone do those things. The wealthy in Boulder are coated in teflon

Those were just more "messages" being sent IMO just like the bashing FW took. Anyone anti-Ramsey was going to be intimidated or the attempt made. Anyone speaking out against the Ramseys was going to be "punished" in some fashion

There is also no doubt in my mind that had anyone other than Susan Stine impersonated Beckner or ANYONE else, charges would have been filed and at the very least, SOMETHING of a punitive nature and they could easily have convicted her of SOMETHING. From what we saw and were told it was in fact a SHRUG OF THE SHOULDERS; as if it were a child's prank and NOT the work of a grown LEGAL adult who knew it was against the law to do such a thing.

Fortunately for her, she also knew she was teflon coated, with friends like the Ramseys and their ilk
candy

East Lansing, MI

#2337 Jan 16, 2013
The agreement between Hunter and Smit regarding grand jury materials:

http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03301999huntervs...

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#2338 Jan 17, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
Just for S&G, I Googled the subject after reading your post L_E, and so can everyone else if they want to learn more about impersonating a police officer, the offense, the fines, and the charges. Here are a couple of things I found:
1. Impersonation of a Peace/Police Officer in Colorado - C.R.S.-18-8-112 - Impersonating a peace/police officer is a felony in Colorado and is generally accompanied by other felony charges.
2. On another note, it seems the CBI do think impersonating a police officer is a felony:
"Impersonating a police officer is a serious felony offense," said John Bankhead with the GBI in Atlanta.
<quoted text>
The fact that the GBI investigated this also implies that it is a Federal offense because she used the internet. I don't know the laws well enough to recite chapter and verse but once a person uses the mail or the internet, that is a Federal issue. Had anyone wished to pursue it, Stine would have been in a heap of trouble
Jack

Columbia, TN

#2340 Jan 28, 2013
Pieces and parts that were missed.
Just Wondering

Beckley, WV

#2342 Mar 22, 2016
Nelly wrote:
<quoted text>
We're SUPPOSE to believe the Ramsey's walked thru those doors like zombies and went to their beds and lights out, and oops! somebody took that child and the Ramsey's called the police and friends and didn't read the entire note, discuss it, or even look further than under that child's dustruffle. THAT is their story and nobody can tell me different! lol
That is not what their record says. John did stay up with Burke helping him with a toy he had gotten for Christmas. The part I cannot believe is that Patsy had everything ready to go for the trip to Charlevoix and for the Disney cruise, and didn't stay up checking and double checking everything.

We are to believe that Patsy left JB's shirt that she wore to the party on for her to sleep in but bothered changing her from her pull on pants to long johns because she didn't want to wake her up. And she left her to sleep in two ponytails? How comfortable is that? But the most difficult thing for me to accept is that she did not wake JB up to go to the bathroom. They had just come from a party where JB more than likely had a lot of punch, soda, whatever. Knowing the possibility that she might wet the bed during the night, and that Patsy did not intend to wake her at midnight as she usually would, why would she not wake her to use the bathroom before putting her to bed? Or perhaps she did get up at midnight as usual to take her to the bathroom. Maybe that is where the LE should have started their fact finding mission. Perhaps Steve Thomas had considered that, after all.

As far as the next morning, it is strange they didn't completely read the note from the people who were holding the life of their daughter in their hands--they didn't even awaken their son to find out if this was some kind of horrid joke or if he had heard anything during the night!!! After checking in JB's room, that would have been my first inclination. After all, your mind tends to hunt for an innocent answer before it can accept the unthinkable. And they didn't run through the home checking for her!!! Maybe they were paralyzed with fear and thus inaction, that is a possibility. But they certainly were aware enough to remember their friends' phone numbers in order to get them over to the home.

While we all react differently, for sure, their decision to not cooperate with the police says more to me than anything. Who doesn't move heaven and earth to find the murderer of their child? Regardless of the ill fame or hardship it might cause you?
stoned luck aka lukyk9

Santa Ana, CA

#2345 Mar 22, 2016
Steph wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe he took notes because he was a detail oriented person, who knows.
I find it interesting that you KNOW that he lied about seeing her body......your words, not mine.
The door had been busted.0010 hrs Fwhi breaks it open.he clamored down to find Jben naked under a Blue lamp with cord around her neck.fishing line tangled up on step and Blue box.panic stricken mad housefrau Pram goes into action.writing a ransom note and arguing with Fwhi over where to dispose of the cadaver and how to play the cops .evidently the stories told didn't jibe.it didn't ad up.You found her cleaned and dressed her then built alibi sending others away.since they wanted to absconded soon as possible to prevent being victims themselves

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