The Globe: Mom did it
candy

East Lansing, MI

#1 Dec 14, 2006
The Globe, December 25, 2006

Synopsis:

Dr. Rusty Morris says "I've always wondered if there might be Munchausen Syndrome-by Proxy going on in the Ramsey home."

Dr. Steven Pitt says Patsy gave an oscar winning performance during her interviews with cops (when she denied any knowledge of how pineapple got in JonBenet's digestive tract). He adds "that Patsy gave other misleading testimony, and pegs her as being more than a match for her interrogators."

Handwriting expert David S. Lieberman says "I'm not saying Patsy killed JonBenet, but I'm convinced there's an extremely high probability she was the person who wrote the ransom note.."

“Never say Never”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#2 Dec 14, 2006
I have had many trainings on Munchausen by proxy and other crimes against children. Including shaken baby syndrome. Anything is possible, and I do know that in Steve Thomas' book ( i know, i know...)not all that trustworthy. He mentioned a couple of other dr. visits for JB due to injuries, like a hurt nose from falling in the grocery store. She may just have been clumsy. My 7 yr. old is. But at the time, It struck me as odd...along with Burke hitting her with the golf club and Patsy worrying about her nose (?) and plastic surgery.....
candy

East Lansing, MI

#3 Dec 14, 2006
All this would have much more impact if it was in a credible, respectable publication that the public trusted. The Globe couldn't say Burke did it again, they already did and paid out a settlement to the Ramseys on that. They've said just about everyone else did it, including a cover story on a "JonBenet Confession" (pre-Karr), that Karr was guilty, and now the rag whose sister publication (National Examiner, they are all owned by the same company, American Media) said in a cover story last week that it was a two person crime, parroting and quoting the latest U.K. crock, now the Globe blames Patsy, after of course, Patsy is dead, and can't sue them like Burke did. Where were all these people when Patsy was alive, when there were the Wolf suits? Wecht, who is in this piece, quit the Wolf case one week before his sure to be scorching deposition with Lin Wood, leaving the case without an ME, and all the medical evidence unrebutted.
Wecht, like ST, has plenty to say WHEN HE IS NOT UNDER OATH. Wecht of course, is also facing an 84 count Federal indictment.
Patricia Fox

Memphis, TN

#4 Dec 14, 2006
candy wrote:
All this would have much more impact if it was in a credible, respectable publication that the public trusted. The Globe couldn't say Burke did it again, they already did and paid out a settlement to the Ramseys on that. They've said just about everyone else did it, including a cover story on a "JonBenet Confession" (pre-Karr), that Karr was guilty, and now the rag whose sister publication (National Examiner, they are all owned by the same company, American Media) said in a cover story last week that it was a two person crime, parroting and quoting the latest U.K. crock, now the Globe blames Patsy, after of course, Patsy is dead, and can't sue them like Burke did. Where were all these people when Patsy was alive, when there were the Wolf suits? Wecht, who is in this piece, quit the Wolf case one week before his sure to be scorching deposition with Lin Wood, leaving the case without an ME, and all the medical evidence unrebutted.
Wecht, like ST, has plenty to say WHEN HE IS NOT UNDER OATH. Wecht of course, is also facing an 84 count Federal indictment.
Question? Why do you think the Ramseys didn't sue Wecht..He made some pretty serious statements, did he not?
the pinker

United States

#5 Dec 15, 2006
Dr Henry Lee said it was in the fibers...

I believe he accessed some of the doll information.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44
thejuke

Edinburgh, UK

#6 Dec 15, 2006
BS SHE DIDN'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!! AN INTRUDER DID IT!!!! IMO..........
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#7 Dec 15, 2006
the pinker wrote:
Dr Henry Lee said it was in the fibers...
I believe he accessed some of the doll information.
http://www.geocities.com/pinker44
There is no evidence that Dr Henry Lee has ever said there were any doll fibers at the JonBenet crime scene. Dr Lee has also never presented any evidence that there was any Asian sneeze DNA in the oversized panty package which Lin Wood was supposed to have given to the Boulder DA's office. Dr Lee was making it up.

I don't know the reason why Dr Wecht wasn't sued by the Ramseys. I'm not a libel lawyer. Any libel case is expensive and involves legal technicalities. I suppose Dr Wecht could argue in court that it was his honest, but mistaken opinion. That seems to be how the Colorado judges seem to have interpreted the Ramsey v Fox libel case a a couple of years ago.

I think any libel lawyer would have an easier time with the 'Burke did it' libels. Anybody who makes that libel doesn't have a leg to stand on. That seems to be what Lin Wood has done in the past. Lin Wood has concentrated on newspapers and media with deep pockets.

The Ramseys and Lin Wood were also successful in suing Steve Thomas when Steve Thomas had nothing to back up his 'Patsy did it' hypothetical scenario.
Detroit Breakdown

Lakeland, MI

#8 Dec 15, 2006
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no evidence that Dr Henry Lee has ever said there were any doll fibers at the JonBenet crime scene. Dr Lee has also never presented any evidence that there was any Asian sneeze DNA in the oversized panty package which Lin Wood was supposed to have given to the Boulder DA's office. Dr Lee was making it up.
I don't know the reason why Dr Wecht wasn't sued by the Ramseys. I'm not a libel lawyer. Any libel case is expensive and involves legal technicalities. I suppose Dr Wecht could argue in court that it was his honest, but mistaken opinion. That seems to be how the Colorado judges seem to have interpreted the Ramsey v Fox libel case a a couple of years ago.
I think any libel lawyer would have an easier time with the 'Burke did it' libels. Anybody who makes that libel doesn't have a leg to stand on. That seems to be what Lin Wood has done in the past. Lin Wood has concentrated on newspapers and media with deep pockets.
The Ramseys and Lin Wood were also successful in suing Steve Thomas when Steve Thomas had nothing to back up his 'Patsy did it' hypothetical scenario.
If they`ve got pieces of the brown bag on Jonbenet`s bed and on the floor in the 2nd bedroom, but not on Jonbenet`s clothes, how do pieces of the brown bag that had the climbing rope in it end up inside the bodybag???
the pinker

Fennimore, WI

#9 Dec 15, 2006
Henrietta McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no evidence that Dr Henry Lee has ever said there were any doll fibers at the JonBenet crime scene.
There is absolutely no public offical information about the dolls period. NADA

Nothing about the unmatched tan cotton fibers found at the scene matching the doll's tan cotton body.

Nothing about unmatched the dark fibers found on JonBenet as shedding off the doll's navy wool skirt.

Nothing about the unmatched assorted hairs found on JonBenet's body as being from kanekalon wigs.

Nothing about the duplicate doll delivered to John Raamsey's office after the funeral.

What I said is I believe Dr Lee was given access to some of the doll information. You can interpret that any way you wish.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44
thejuke

Edinburgh, UK

#10 Dec 15, 2006
I think the tan cotton fibers came from either a cotton shirt or gloves. No dolls!

the pinker,

You seem obsessed with dolls. Why don't you do something about it if you are so sure? Why? Because it seems like you are deliberately annoying people about dolls. Do you happen to know something we don't?
the pinker

Fennimore, WI

#11 Dec 15, 2006
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#12 Dec 15, 2006
candy wrote:
The Globe, December 25, 2006
Synopsis:
Dr. Rusty Morris says "I've always wondered if there might be Munchausen Syndrome-by Proxy going on in the Ramsey home."
Dr. Steven Pitt says Patsy gave an oscar winning performance during her interviews with cops (when she denied any knowledge of how pineapple got in JonBenet's digestive tract). He adds "that Patsy gave other misleading testimony, and pegs her as being more than a match for her interrogators."
Handwriting expert David S. Lieberman says "I'm not saying Patsy killed JonBenet, but I'm convinced there's an extremely high probability she was the person who wrote the ransom note."
Munchausen Syndrome - by Proxy has been largely discredited in the UK. There have been a series of wrongful convictions, and wrong diagnosis in the UK. Professor Meadow, the Munchausen Syndrome - by Proxy man, is no longer allowed to work as a doctor.

Lieberman never examined the original ransom note. He was comparing the Ramsey case ransom note to Tom Miller forgeries of copies of Patsy's handwriting exemplars.

Dr Steven Pitt was a hired FBI gun by the Boulder cops, who was used to apply FBI media pressure on the innocent Ramseys. That was in the hope the Ramseys would make a false confession.

A lot of profilers like Ressler don't get it right. There work is guesswork and opinion, not facts and evidence. I don't have a high regard for the abilities of Dr Henry Lee. He is a purported expert as a blood man. Lee isn't a fiber, hair, fingerprint, or DNA specialist. Dr Lee thinks John Andrew Ramsey was in Boulder on the night of JonBenet's murder!

This is from a newspaper report about Ressler's work in the sniper case a few years ago:

"Robert Ressler, a former FBI profiler in the formative years of the FBI's behavioral science unit, told CNN's King that night: "It was clear that this individual and, in my opinion, these individuals, were going to stay in the major metropolitan Washington area, which tells me that they're residents. These people are long-term residents."
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#13 Dec 15, 2006
An interesting opinion about Ramsey case profiler Ressler by a New York homicide detective, from a newspaper article:

"But to this day, Coffee claims the profile never led anyone to Berkowtiz -- never even narrowed the search. It was, at best he claims, nothing but a guess done by investigators that should have been working the streets instead.

"Psychological profiling is a scam," says Coffee. "Anybody who knows anything about homicide investigation will tell you that."
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#14 Dec 15, 2006
Detroit Breakdown wrote:
<quoted text>If they`ve got pieces of the brown bag on Jonbenet`s bed and on the floor in the 2nd bedroom, but not on Jonbenet`s clothes, how do pieces of the brown bag that had the climbing rope in it end up inside the bodybag???
I don't claim to fully comprehend the forensic significance of the rope in the Ramsey case.

I agree with Lou Smit that it's an avenue that should have been explored. From what Lou Smit seems to have said recently that rope was never DNA tested. Lou Smit seems a bit upset about that. If there was DNA on the rope that matched the JonBenet panty DNA then that would be interesting information.

I get the impression that the Boulder cops thought the rope belonged to John Andrew Ramsey and wasn't relevant to the JonBenet murder. I have never seen any hard documentary evidence that bits of the bag were found on JonBenet's bed, and in the bodybag, as Detroit Breakdown says. If that's true then that must be forensically significant.

There seems to be some confusion with regard to the rope. it seems to have been in a brown bag which was then placed in an evidence bag. Lou Smit distinctly says in the 1998 John Ramsey interview that the rope was found in JonBenet's bedroom. Other internet posters have said in the past that statement was a Lou Smit slip of the tongue and the rope was found in John Andrew's bedroom. Don't ask me who's correct about the matter!

The matter was discussed at the John Ramsey and Lou Smit 1998 interview:

20 LOU SMIT: John Andrew's bedroom,

21 did you ever recall any rope or cord being in

22 his room?

23 JOHN RAMSEY: Gee, it's possible,

24 John Andrew loved the outdoors, he was there, I

25 stayed in that room. I know he had seems like

0535

1 he had his backpack there for a while. So it

2 wouldn't be -- I don't remember seeing any, but

3 it wouldn't be --

4 LOU SMIT: I would like to show you

5 a photograph and have you just take a look at

6 it. Do you ever remember seeing anything like

7 that and on the back, this is just a container

8 for it, that's photo number 114 and I will show

9 it 114 and I will show it to the camera.

10 JOHN RAMSEY: Geez.

11 LOU SMIT: You can turn it over.

12 There is another --

13 JOHN RAMSEY: The person obviously

14 I think you know would be John Andrew, but I

15 don't -- it doesn't ring a bell.

16 LOU SMIT: But he could have had

17 things there in his backpack?

18 JOHN RAMSEY: It wouldn't have

19 been out of the question.

20 LOU SMIT: Just for the camera, the

21 photographs we are looking at is photo 113, 114,

22 115 and 116, and I will just hold that up to let

23 the camera take a look.

24 BRYAN MORGAN: May I ask just one

25 question. Can you tell us if this is the form

0536

1 in which it was originally found?

2 LOU SMIT: No, that's the bag it

3 was put in for evidence.

4 BRYAN MORGAN: So the paper bag is

5 just in evidence.

6 LOU SMIT: Evidence bag. And

7 again that was just found in the room, and it

8 was found in a bag in her room, that's all I can

9 tell you at this time.

10 BRYAN MORGAN: In a bag.
Detroit Breakdown

Manitowoc, WI

#15 Dec 15, 2006
Finally, items were left behind that defendants assert they did not own.(Defs.' Br. In Supp. Of Summ. J.(67] at 18-19.) A baseball bat not owned by the Ramseys found on the north side of the house has fibers consistent with fibers found in the carpet in the basement where JonBenet's body was found.(SMF 185; PSMF 185.) A rope was found inside a brown paper sack in the guest bedroom of defendants' home, neither of which belonged to defendants.(SMF 181; PSMF 181.) Small pieces of the brown sack material were found in the "vacuuming" of JonBenet's bed and in the body bag that was used to transport her body.
I’d still like to know more about the paper sack and the rope and the ‘small pieces of sack material.’ What kind of paper? What kind of sack, size, shape, usage? They found material in her bed and in the body bag but nor on her body, hair or clothing? Did they find any of this material on the tape? The sheet? The boiler room floor (where the assault took place)? Material from the interior or exterior of the bag? Any other fibers or material in the bag or on the rope? Any rope fibers from the rope found anywhere? Etc, etc… it’s very difficult to know how to answer any questions about the bag at this point. It’d be nice if it could be definitively determined that the bag was brought into the house by the killer or if it’s just one of those things that sometimes show up in people’s houses and no one can figure out or remember where it came from?

Miss Marple
unregistered user
02-10-06, 12:19 PM (EST)

28."RE: Mindhunter excerpt"
In response to message #25

>Well, the sack material was brown, so I assume it was a
>brown paper bag. By my estimation, the rope was at least 15
>feet long, so I'm thinking it was a large grocery sack.>There must have been sack material on her body, otherwise,>they wouldn't have found it in the body bag.

This is why Smit is convinced she was attacked in her room.
Detroit Breakdown
the pinker

Holland, MI

#16 Dec 16, 2006
The Globe is only the first on the scene as the anniversary approaches. There will be more stories next week and more interest. Most will say it like it is and more reputable print reporters may delve further...

The only viable suspect at this time is John Ramsey.

What did John Ramsey do with the duplicate doll shipped to his office after the funeral and why didn't he then take the original to be forensically examined?

Why didn't the Boulder DA ever question John or Patsy Ramsey about the dolls? Fact remains the duplicate doll shipped to John Ramsey's office appears to have been ordered shortly after the original was removed from the home... to the hour.

Besides knowing the dolls were removed the sender also had to have a catalog with an order form which narrows the list even more.

DID PAM PAUGH REMOVE AN AMERICAN GIRL CATALOG WITH THE DOLLS?

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44

JOHNNYBLACK

Mission Viejo, CA

#17 Dec 19, 2006
Pinker, I am extremely interested in your work. This seems to be the most plausible working scenario I've seen.

How would one be able to get John to confess what he knows?

What we need is someone willing to die to expose the truth. That someone is Jack Bauer-from 24!!!

Seriously, if John knows anything some badass cop/investigator needs to break him, and interrogate Burke!
JOHNNYBLACK

Mission Viejo, CA

#18 Dec 19, 2006
All you have to do is get Fleet, JOhn, Burke and any living suspect and throw them in the same room.
That would likely yield results
Henrietta McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#19 Dec 19, 2006
John Ramsey has been candid and told Lou Smit all, and what he knows. It's no good using third degree methods on innocent people.

Burke has been questioned by the police. There is nobody in the Boulder police, or Boulder DA's office, or the FBI, as far as I know, who thinks Burke did it.

If Fleet White was now in a room with John and Burke he would probaly bring his gun along, as he did in Atlanta in 1996 and start ranting and raving like a homicidal maniac. Fleet White is a very dangerous man. It''s about time JohnnyBlack realized it.

This is what John Ramsey thought about it all, from the Ramsey book Death of Innocence:

"During these last days, I realized how the entire process had squeezed the innocence out of Patsy and me. On the morning of Dec. 26, 1996, we were typical Americans who believed that America was a great country, and we had been blessed by its bounty. In our view, the guilty always went to jail and the innocent didn't. How naive we were! The song that JonBenet used to sing, God Bless America, was now forever tainted and overshadowed by what we had learned about the potential injustice in this land. When an innocent child is killed in her own house and the response of the justice system is as defective as it had been in JonBenet's case, hope dies as well.

A killer, compounded by a defective police department, a rampant Internet gossip system and an irresponsible news industry willing to print and say anything that makes a story, had destroyed our dreams for the future. Our innocence had died."

March 19, 2000
CrimeJaildotcom

Enfield, UK

#20 May 28, 2014
JOHNNYBLACK wrote:
All you have to do is get Fleet, JOhn, Burke and any living suspect and throw them in the same room.
That would likely yield results
Patsy hired a man to kidnap JonBenet as she was desperate for attention. Dressing her daughter up like Dolly Parton was not enough. She wanted real fame. She clearly had Münchausen syndrome. Took JenBenet to the doctor over 27 times. One doctor discovered she was dressing JenBenet in a bra at 5 years old. But the kidnapper went too far, knowing she would not dare tell police the truth. Watch any interview with Patsy. She never begs for help finding the killer or screams for help "someone out there please help solve this". She smiles far too much. She was a detached little madam.  Take Kate McCann. She is a TRUE victim. She looks ill, depressed, destroyed. She is no liar. But Patsy, she clearly never lost her appetite, always wore full make-up, always ready with a smile. She died of cancer. Probably for the best.

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