I know what really happened to JoneBE...
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#22 Jul 21, 2014
Oops: hear=here
Biz

Port Richey, FL

#23 Jul 21, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
The irony of an expert stating that the only way for a dead victim to be judged as having been sexually abused is for them to be hear to tell about it or to have had a sexually transmitted disease. Why do defense attorneys and prosecutors pay these experts so much if their opinions are truly worthless? Why even bother with autopsies?
For every child that comes forward and accuses an abuser of molestation, two of his victims remain silent. So, so much for relying on the children to tell anyone. And that is a statistic that you can rely on.
You may not realize, but I recall having read in one of the books that indeed Jonbenet did get repeated yeast infections. Though yeast infections can occur for a myriad of reasons, one cannot rule out sexual activity being the cause.
I have two girls. They get yeast infections from bubble baths, not wiping properly, etc. Not just from sexual abuse. In JonBenet's case I think I heard or it was speculated to be caused from bubble baths.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#24 Jul 21, 2014
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for that source LE. I hadn't seen it before. I asked someone who was there at the party if pineapple was served and they could not remember.
It is also possible that she ate pineapple before they left that night and the parents never even knew. There is no proof that the killers fed her pineapple. Digestion time has a lot of components: temperature, age of person, acidic levels, etc.
Unless compromised by sickness or disease, all people begin to expel food from the stomach within 20 minutes. Most people begin expelling food particles within 10 minutes.
This is, especially, true with small, soft food stuffs.

JBR had no food particles, from her mouth to large intestine, except for some fragments of pineapple located in the first part of her small intestine. This means that she ate pineapple
on an empty stomach and had not eaten any other thing for some time prior to her eating pineapple. If she ate pineapple, before going to the Whites, or at the Whites, this means she ate no solid food from the late breakfast until around midnight other than a couple of bites of pineapple. I propose that the little girl's stomach would have been protesting, at the Whites, six hours after not having eaten anything but a couple of pineapple cubes.

The only logical explanation is that JBR ate some food at the Whites around six p.m. If we assume the time of death to be around 11p.m. to 1 a.m., that gives the White meal five to seven hours to enter the colon where fecal material was found. JBR ate pineapple on an empty stomach, after arriving at home where the pineapple was found on the table, and the stomach began expelling those fragments of pineapple no later than 20 minutes (most likely sooner). Within 30 minutes to one hour, the pineapple was well into the proximal small intestine where it was found by the coroner approx. 32 hours after death. JonBenet ate pineapple no longer than one hour before assault. Bank on it.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#25 Jul 22, 2014
One of the things that I learned from Patsy and now biz is that I have done it all wrong all these years.

When raising my daughter, if she had a problem using bubble baths, having reactions (yeast infections) or didn't wipe properly, or anything else that created something negative, I just STOPPED using it.

Silly me; I never had to go back to the pediatrician for the same thing TWICE

Maybe I was just too young to know better; and continually doing what gives your child a negative reaction seems to be acceptable and better parenting.

Who knew?

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#26 Jul 22, 2014
learnin wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless compromised by sickness or disease, all people begin to expel food from the stomach within 20 minutes. Most people begin expelling food particles within 10 minutes.
This is, especially, true with small, soft food stuffs.
JBR had no food particles, from her mouth to large intestine, except for some fragments of pineapple located in the first part of her small intestine. This means that she ate pineapple
on an empty stomach and had not eaten any other thing for some time prior to her eating pineapple. If she ate pineapple, before going to the Whites, or at the Whites, this means she ate no solid food from the late breakfast until around midnight other than a couple of bites of pineapple. I propose that the little girl's stomach would have been protesting, at the Whites, six hours after not having eaten anything but a couple of pineapple cubes.
The only logical explanation is that JBR ate some food at the Whites around six p.m. If we assume the time of death to be around 11p.m. to 1 a.m., that gives the White meal five to seven hours to enter the colon where fecal material was found. JBR ate pineapple on an empty stomach, after arriving at home where the pineapple was found on the table, and the stomach began expelling those fragments of pineapple no later than 20 minutes (most likely sooner). Within 30 minutes to one hour, the pineapple was well into the proximal small intestine where it was found by the coroner approx. 32 hours after death. JonBenet ate pineapple no longer than one hour before assault. Bank on it.
Great post about the pineapple.

Logic and science tell us that the pineapple was consumed at home

Facts tell us there was no pineapple served at the Whites

Tests showed that the pineapple came from the Ramsey home but the continual red herring of the secret pineapple that MUST have been served at the Whites will continue forever. If they don't say that, we are left with a sit down snack, complete with tea with a total stranger in the Ramsey home with JonBenet after waking up from a dead sleep. The intruder also managed to omit his own prints and leave Patsy and Burke's

That is what the public is expected to believe. It's amazing that some really do believe that

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#27 Jul 22, 2014
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Please don't post misinformation! They were asked, they answered and they did NOT serve pineapple.
“We do know, though, that the White's never served pineapple at their home that night.” ST Page 165
Congratulations LE

That source has been posted for all these years on every JBR forum known to man LOL

I guess the 600th time, or thereabouts is the charm :)

Finally!
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#28 Jul 22, 2014
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
I have two girls. They get yeast infections from bubble baths, not wiping properly, etc. Not just from sexual abuse. In JonBenet's case I think I heard or it was speculated to be caused from bubble baths.
My daughter also gets yeast infections. Bubble baths--no longer an option fpr her. And she must eat yogurt while on some antibiotics. So as mothers we are aware of the different causes of yeast infections.

However, in the autopsy they found damage they felt came from chronic sexual molestation. That coupled with repeated yeast infections could obviously point to sexual abuse. Can anyone say for sure--as your expert pointed out--we can never know unless the child could speak for herself. Unfortunately, she has been murdered and a sexual assault had occurred before or after that murder. So putting two and two together, I think we can opt for the number four in this case. But I guess that is something we may never know thanks to the confusion brought about by a phony, planted ransom note.
biz

Port Richey, FL

#29 Jul 22, 2014
Capricorn wrote:
One of the things that I learned from Patsy and now biz is that I have done it all wrong all these years.
When raising my daughter, if she had a problem using bubble baths, having reactions (yeast infections) or didn't wipe properly, or anything else that created something negative, I just STOPPED using it.
Silly me; I never had to go back to the pediatrician for the same thing TWICE
Maybe I was just too young to know better; and continually doing what gives your child a negative reaction seems to be acceptable and better parenting.
Who knew?
No need to be so condescending Cappie. Parents learn about child allergies over time. One child might have them, one might not. I was hospitalized as a child for a severe allergy. They tested for hundreds of things and they never did find the culprit so it's not like you find out in one doctor visit all the time.
If her yeast infection was from poor wiping there might be many instances.. And young children at age six are just learning about proper hygiene.
Point is it's not solely from sexual abuse
biz

Port Richey, FL

#30 Jul 22, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
My daughter also gets yeast infections. Bubble baths--no longer an option fpr her. And she must eat yogurt while on some antibiotics. So as mothers we are aware of the different causes of yeast infections.
However, in the autopsy they found damage they felt came from chronic sexual molestation. That coupled with repeated yeast infections could obviously point to sexual abuse. Can anyone say for sure--as your expert pointed out--we can never know unless the child could speak for herself. Unfortunately, she has been murdered and a sexual assault had occurred before or after that murder. So putting two and two together, I think we can opt for the number four in this case. But I guess that is something we may never know thanks to the confusion brought about by a phony, planted ransom note.
What I am trying to explain is that many little girls damage their privates from just being tom boys. Over the years doctors have noticed that it happens when they have not been sexually abused. There is no way to know if the damage was from sexual abuse unless the child can tell you themselves or if they contract a venereal disease.
I am just saying that if it ever went to trial there will be conflicting experts on both sides of the fence.
I agree the RN was fake but I don't think it makes any sense that educated intelligent parents with no history mental illness would see a need to write such an elaborate note. I DO think it makes sense that a sadistic who lived in fantasy could have written such a note as a distraction. This pedophile felt having JonBenet die in his arms would bond them for eternity, thus she would become HIS.
Steve Eller

Bronx, NY

#31 Jul 22, 2014
biz wrote:
<quoted text>
What I am trying to explain is that many little girls damage their privates from just being tom boys. Over the years doctors have noticed that it happens when they have not been sexually abused. There is no way to know if the damage was from sexual abuse unless the child can tell you themselves or if they contract a venereal disease.
I am just saying that if it ever went to trial there will be conflicting experts on both sides of the fence.
I agree the RN was fake but I don't think it makes any sense that educated intelligent parents with no history mental illness would see a need to write such an elaborate note. I DO think it makes sense that a sadistic who lived in fantasy could have written such a note as a distraction. This pedophile felt having JonBenet die in his arms would bond them for eternity, thus she would become HIS.
It makes complete sense for educated intelligent and criminally sophisticated scum like the Ramseys to write that note because without that note there is no diversion, no contamination of the crime scene. And suspicion falls on the Parents almost immediately.
biz

Port Richey, FL

#32 Jul 22, 2014
Steve Eller wrote:
<quoted text>
It makes complete sense for educated intelligent and criminally sophisticated scum like the Ramseys to write that note because without that note there is no diversion, no contamination of the crime scene. And suspicion falls on the Parents almost immediately.
I disagree. Educated parents who wanted to try to fake the incident would have taken her to the hospital and said she fell down the steps. They would never create this elaborate ruse of bondage, ransom notes, 911 calls and intruders. It's way too complicated, too much that could go wrong, too much to remember.
Steve Eller

Bronx, NY

#33 Jul 23, 2014
biz wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. Educated parents who wanted to try to fake the incident would have taken her to the hospital and said she fell down the steps. They would never create this elaborate ruse of bondage, ransom notes, 911 calls and intruders. It's way too complicated, too much that could go wrong, too much to remember.
They would have to explain a dead body exhibiting signs of chronic sexual abuse. Even more daunting would be to explain how JonBenet was "accidentally" struck with such great force. What was happening in their home life previously would have been investigated at length. Patti and John may have gone to Prison, Burke might have been institutionalized for a while at a young age and their reputations destroyed. As ridiculous a note as it was, it wound up accomplishing everything they hoped for and more.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#34 Jul 23, 2014
biz wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. Educated parents who wanted to try to fake the incident would have taken her to the hospital and said she fell down the steps. They would never create this elaborate ruse of bondage, ransom notes, 911 calls and intruders. It's way too complicated, too much that could go wrong, too much to remember.
Her injuries were not consistent with falling down the stairs. Had they tried that they would have been arrested.
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#35 Jul 23, 2014
Why do we always think "educated" or "wealthy" parents would never concoct such schemes? People with huge egos often think they can get away with murder--as the old adage goes.

I am a Christian, I was battered for stating that I could not see Christian parents committing this crime. Not that I thought they couldn't, but that it was difficult for me to conceive of it. So educated, wealthy, religious oriented, doesn't exempt you from anger, rage, sexual temptation of various persuasions, being an egomaniac, or being desperate to protect your child and grasping at straws.

In fact, I think their station in life made them more likely to cover up an "accident" when they knew there was the possibility of prior sexual molestation taking place. They had a reputation and a young son to protect.

It is difficult for me to conceive of a mother or father garrotting their child as a coverup, but their only two alternatives would have been to turn the situation over to the police, or drag their daughter out into the cold and literally "dump" her body. I think they chose to stage the strangulation, wrap her in her favorite blanket and place her within the warm confines of her home that she loved.:(
biz

Port Richey, FL

#36 Jul 23, 2014
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Her injuries were not consistent with falling down the stairs. Had they tried that they would have been arrested.
That was just a sample of the usual excuses parents will use if they want to cover up. They could have said that her head hit a rock, that she was hung up on the garland on the staircase. Anything but this crazy kidnapper and ransom note story. No one with any sense would invent such an elaborate cover up. They had no history of making up elaborate lies.
Imagine that there really was a sadistic pedophile who broke into the house, something went wrong and he had to run out. I too have longed for the answers as to who would do something like that. There is someone with a history of pedophilia, kidnapping, sadistic sexual practices, breaking into homes with the parents there, someone who had hatred for those who had wealth while he had nothing, someone with a history of obsession with little pageant girls. Someone who was not fully investigated because no one bothered to "Listen Carefully!"
biz

Port Richey, FL

#37 Jul 23, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
Why do we always think "educated" or "wealthy" parents would never concoct such schemes? People with huge egos often think they can get away with murder--as the old adage goes.
I am a Christian, I was battered for stating that I could not see Christian parents committing this crime. Not that I thought they couldn't, but that it was difficult for me to conceive of it. So educated, wealthy, religious oriented, doesn't exempt you from anger, rage, sexual temptation of various persuasions, being an egomaniac, or being desperate to protect your child and grasping at straws.
In fact, I think their station in life made them more likely to cover up an "accident" when they knew there was the possibility of prior sexual molestation taking place. They had a reputation and a young son to protect.
It is difficult for me to conceive of a mother or father garrotting their child as a coverup, but their only two alternatives would have been to turn the situation over to the police, or drag their daughter out into the cold and literally "dump" her body. I think they chose to stage the strangulation, wrap her in her favorite blanket and place her within the warm confines of her home that she loved.:(
I don't support the Ramseys because they are Christian. I have seen lots of people who attend church regularly who are terrible people. Many go to church to make up for their past. Some really are good people who need that support. I don't. Although I used to go to church regularly, my current church is a sandy beach day with my family and my dogs. I am closest to god at that point and I don't need some preacher to tell me that I am a good person because I know I am. That being said, in a case like this, if the parents were guilty, I think we would have had people come forward who knew the Ramseys and say "yeah they were crazy, they were sadists, they had a secret life." We have only heard that from ST who did not know them previously. He drew his conclusion without any evidence to support it.
Most parents who do kill their children have a history of abuse. The Ramseys had no history of abusive behavior. Even Patsy's step children had fond things to say about her and her parenting. The ex-wife was supportive of their character as well. Not many people are going to stand still and cover up for a child killer. I certainly wouldn't. Even if it was my own family member. I might support them in an effort to get mental help but they still need to be accountable and prevented from doing it to others. Everyone who knew the Ramseys really well had only good things to say about their character. Kindness, charitable, thoughtful, intelligent. These are words that were used to describe them. Hardly the character of the most evil killer in our century. JMO
Steve Eller

Bronx, NY

#38 Jul 23, 2014
Let us focus on the evidence and remember that the note successfully diverted and misled the police and investigation. Moreover it bought the Ramseys invaluable time to get their legal team ready.
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#39 Jul 24, 2014
biz wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't support the Ramseys because they are Christian. I have seen lots of people who attend church regularly who are terrible people. Many go to church to make up for their past. Some really are good people who need that support. I don't. Although I used to go to church regularly, my current church is a sandy beach day with my family and my dogs. I am closest to god at that point and I don't need some preacher to tell me that I am a good person because I know I am. That being said, in a case like this, if the parents were guilty, I think we would have had people come forward who knew the Ramseys and say "yeah they were crazy, they were sadists, they had a secret life." We have only heard that from ST who did not know them previously. He drew his conclusion without any evidence to support it.
Most parents who do kill their children have a history of abuse. The Ramseys had no history of abusive behavior. Even Patsy's step children had fond things to say about her and her parenting. The ex-wife was supportive of their character as well. Not many people are going to stand still and cover up for a child killer. I certainly wouldn't. Even if it was my own family member. I might support them in an effort to get mental help but they still need to be accountable and prevented from doing it to others. Everyone who knew the Ramseys really well had only good things to say about their character. Kindness, charitable, thoughtful, intelligent. These are words that were used to describe them. Hardly the character of the most evil killer in our century. JMO
There was a case in WV where a pastor took his wife on a weekend retreat to a cabin and claimed that an intruder broke in and murdered her. Only her. He was later found guilty of her murder. Apparently, no one in the congregation or community knew there was anything amiss in the pastor's home.

Patsy was a stickler for appearances. It was everything to her. Just read the notes she sent out boasting about Jonbenet's and Burke's accomplishments in school and in extracurricular activities. And the fact that her home in Michigan would probably appear in Homes and Garden magazine was important to her.

People are very good at facades. Very, very good..
biz

Port Richey, FL

#40 Jul 24, 2014
Steve Eller wrote:
<quoted text>
They would have to explain a dead body exhibiting signs of chronic sexual abuse. Even more daunting would be to explain how JonBenet was "accidentally" struck with such great force. What was happening in their home life previously would have been investigated at length. Patti and John may have gone to Prison, Burke might have been institutionalized for a while at a young age and their reputations destroyed. As ridiculous a note as it was, it wound up accomplishing everything they hoped for and more.
Wouldn't it have been so much smarter to leave the note and the body elsewhere if that were the case. And why not a simple and short to the point ransom note. Your theory makes no sense. No one with any intelligence would write a bizarre three page ransom note to cover up the murder of their daughter. The note WAS a diversionary tactic. But it was written by an intruder who had an elaborate plan to be someone. Someone who loved movies, someone who hated John Ramsey, someone who felt they were smarter than law enforcement. Someone who gets angry when they aren't listened to. I know someone who fits the bill perfectly.
Biz

Port Richey, FL

#41 Jul 24, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a case in WV where a pastor took his wife on a weekend retreat to a cabin and claimed that an intruder broke in and murdered her. Only her. He was later found guilty of her murder. Apparently, no one in the congregation or community knew there was anything amiss in the pastor's home.
Patsy was a stickler for appearances. It was everything to her. Just read the notes she sent out boasting about Jonbenet's and Burke's accomplishments in school and in extracurricular activities. And the fact that her home in Michigan would probably appear in Homes and Garden magazine was important to her.
People are very good at facades. Very, very good..
True. I remember the Rabbi in New England who killed his wife of many years. It was astonishing. BUT he had a mistress. And all that came out rather quickly. There are always skeletons in their closet and they come out. The Ramseys were scrutinized more thoroughly than anyone has ever been. They found nothing. No CP, no history of molestation, no abuse emotional or physical, no mistress, no evidence of pornography rings, etc.. NOTHING but that they had an impeccable reputation.

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