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Fiona

UK

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#1
Mar 10, 2010
 
I read today that when the police where searching the Ramsey's property for evidence, that they came across a plaque near the basement area, and that it had the letters "S.B.T.C" engraved on it.

The ransom letter was signed off with the same initials...Was this not picked up on as something significant? Did the Ramseys ever claim to know what SBTC stood for?

I wondered if the letters on this plaque had been seen by Patsy in the time leading up to her daughters death and she subconsiously used them when trying to think up a random way to sign off the note...? okay it might be clutching at straws (I admit that)but how weird if these letters are supposedly insignificant that they were on both the note and on an item belonging to the family....
Krispy Kreme

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#2
Mar 10, 2010
 

Judged:

1

I think you are thinking of the Subic Bay Naval Center in the Philippines, where John was stationed. It's sometimes mistakenly referred to as the Subic Bay Training Center. It wasn't a training center. It was a naval base. The plaque didn't have S.B.T.C. on it. That's an old Internet rumor, Fiona.

I'm sure Patsy saw it. I'm also sure she was aware it did not have S.B.T.C. on it.

To my knowledge, the Ramseys always maintained they had no idea what S.B.T.C. meant.

Subic Bay is now closed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Naval_Base_...
Henri McPhee

London, UK

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#3
Mar 10, 2010
 

Judged:

2

1

1

This S.B.T.C business has been discussed endlessly over the years on the forums, including on this Topix forum.

Nobody seems to know for certain. Chris Wolf had an article of clothing with Santa Barbara Tennis Club on it which I find suspicious.

People continually mention this Subic bay business and then somebody posts in and says it was the Subic Bay Naval center, and not SBTC.

My own view is that Fleet White noticed that plaque and he deliberately used the SBTC on his ransom note to mislead and mystify the Ramseys and the police.

This is what the UK Guardian newspaper once said about the SBTC matter:

"Handwriting experts ruled him out as the scribe, but after five tests, not her. The note, clearly written by an educated person, was signed "SBTC", initials that matched a plaque found in the house, and corresponded to Subic Bay Training Camp, where John Ramsey had been stationed in the Philippines during his earlier naval career."
Krispy Kreme

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#4
Mar 10, 2010
 
The plaque, itself, just said "Subic Bay."

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/Worked-for-...

“Ooops I farted”

Since: Jan 10

Miami, FL

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#5
Mar 10, 2010
 
Wow Fiona, that is interesting...Never knew they found a plague with those letters. And Henry, I see you're a strong believer of FDI. I have had second thoughts about him too. If he DID kill Jonbenet--which I doubt--don't you still think Patsy covered up for him?

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

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#6
Mar 10, 2010
 
Krispy Kreme wrote:
The plaque, itself, just said "Subic Bay."
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/Worked-for-...
I'm not so sure about that. I've read that it had other wording on it but the wording was obscured by a photo or something. Can't remember where I read it but it was one of the "case players" who said it.
Krispy Kreme

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#7
Mar 10, 2010
 
thewhitewitchone wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not so sure about that. I've read that it had other wording on it but the wording was obscured by a photo or something. Can't remember where I read it but it was one of the "case players" who said it.
Okay, White. I know that site isn't 100% reliable. I don't think it said Subic Bay Training Center, though.

I'll look around and see if I can find a more reliable source.
Krispy Kreme

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#8
Mar 10, 2010
 
PMPT, page 259:

Linda Wilcox (Ramsey former housekeeper): "I don't remember if I told them about the large photograph John had of an aircraft carrier. On the bottom of the picture in fancy writing were the words 'Subic Bay Training Center' The script was faint because it blended in with the water, so the words were hard to read. It used to hang behind his desk in the bedroom."

I guess it was SBTC. Surprises me.
Krispy Kreme

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#9
Mar 10, 2010
 
DOI (HB) Page 120:

<<<"Another strange component in the crime was the signature of S.B.T.C at the end of the ransom note. What could this strange series of letters actually mean? Speculation grew as the note and the signature spread across the country. We had leads on suspects with SBTC baseball caps and SBTC T-shirts that could fit into some arrangement of these letters.

The police saw a hand-carved, Philippine mahogany plaque in my closet, which had been given to me by my employees at the U.S. Naval Subic Bay Public Works Center when I was stationed there in the '60s. They theorized that the initials on the ransom note stood for Subic Bay Training Center, and again saw the evidence as pointing to me. But there is no Subic Bay Training Center at Subic Bay, and the plaque did not contain those words.">>>

Geez, there was a picture and there was a plaque! No wonder people get confused.
fr brown

Walnut Creek, CA

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#10
Mar 18, 2010
 

Judged:

1

John Ramsey's Bible was found on his desk opened to Psalms 35 and 36 (not 118). In his version of the Bible, the first four verses read:

"Contend, O Lord, with those who contend with me;
fight against those who fight against me.

Take up shield and buckler; arise and come to my aid.

Brandish spear and javelin against those who pursue me.

Say to my soul, "I am your salvation."

The first letters of each line from the bottom up read "SBTC." The claim is that this pattern occurs nowhere else in this Bible.

fr brown

Walnut Creek, CA

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#11
Mar 18, 2010
 
As far as the plaque goes, here's what Ramsey says about it in '98:

"14 JOHN RAMSEY: That's a plaque I got
15 when I was at the Naval base in Subic Bay late
16 60's, early 70's, I don't know if the date is
17 on. I was stationed there. It was hand carved
18 by Philippines, they had a lot of craftsmen that
19 could carve like that. I don't recall where it
20 was, it wasn't something that I had out.

21 LOU SMIT: Who else would have
22 known about that, because there has been a lot
23 of things said about Subic Bay training center,
24 things of that nature? What does that say on
25 there by the way?
0539

1 JOHN RAMSEY: It says Lieutenant
2 J.P. Ramsey, PNBC, Subic, which is where I was
3 stationed. USNR, I think.

4 LOU SMIT: Does it say anything
5 about Subic Bay Training Center, does it have
6 initials on this?

7 JOHN RAMSEY: It's PWC, was the
8 public works center.

9 LOU SMIT: I see.

10 JOHN RAMSEY: U.S. Navy Public
11 Works Center, Subic Bay, Philippines. March
12 '68. October '70."
LillyAndGish

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#12
Mar 18, 2010
 
fr brown wrote:
John Ramsey's Bible was found on his desk opened to Psalms 35 and 36 (not 118). In his version of the Bible, the first four verses read:
"Contend, O Lord, with those who contend with me;
fight against those who fight against me.
Take up shield and buckler; arise and come to my aid.
Brandish spear and javelin against those who pursue me.
Say to my soul, "I am your salvation."
The first letters of each line from the bottom up read "SBTC." The claim is that this pattern occurs nowhere else in this Bible.
I've heard about the reverse S.B.T.C. regarding Psalm 118, but I would tend to think it would be more of an acronym for "Saved By The Cross" and used by Patsy. When you combine that with the word, "Victory" and Patsy's love for acronyms, it makes sense to me. Don't know if it does to you or not.
BrotherMoon

Denver, CO

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#13
Mar 18, 2010
 
In Hoc Signo Vinces
LillyAndGish

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#14
Mar 18, 2010
 
&#7952;&#957; &#964;&#959;&#973; &#964;&#8179; &#957;&#943;&#954; &#945; Constantine I

(Of course I looked it up. ;))
LillyAndGish

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#15
Mar 18, 2010
 
Aw, nuts! The Greek letters were corrupted. I thought that would happen.
fr brown

Walnut Creek, CA

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#16
Mar 18, 2010
 
LillyAndGish wrote:
I've heard about the reverse S.B.T.C. regarding Psalm 118, but I would tend to think it would be more of an acronym for "Saved By The Cross" and used by Patsy. When you combine that with the word, "Victory" and Patsy's love for acronyms, it makes sense to me. Don't know if it does to you or not.
"SBTC" is associated with Psalm 35, the psalm the Bible was opened to. Thomas suggests that Patsy sat at the desk with the Bible opened when writing the ransom note. The text certainly speaks to her beleaguered state.

I'd have to find something that associated Patsy with "Saved by the cross" to give that credence. I was brought up Catholic so maybe that's why that phrase doesn't have any resonance for me. I never heard it until this case.
LillyAndGish

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#17
Mar 18, 2010
 
fr brown wrote:
<quoted text>
"SBTC" is associated with Psalm 35, the psalm the Bible was opened to. Thomas suggests that Patsy sat at the desk with the Bible opened when writing the ransom note. The text certainly speaks to her beleaguered state.
I'd have to find something that associated Patsy with "Saved by the cross" to give that credence. I was brought up Catholic so maybe that's why that phrase doesn't have any resonance for me. I never heard it until this case.
I thought the Bible was open to Psalm 118, Patsy's favorite. I could be wrong, of course.

Saved By the Cross is a Southern Baptist expression. I didn't hear it much before this case, either, as I'm Catholic, too.

It appears the exact expression is "Saved At The Cross."

http://reformedbaptistfellowship.wordpress.co...

I can't associate it with PR, but I do know she was fond of using acronyms.
deb

Minneapolis, MN

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#18
Mar 18, 2010
 
Zach Frey, a RPG (role-playing gamer), designed a RPG called STBC way back when. Biz found all this out and even emailed him.

Zack, the great pretender?

http://www.znfrey.com/rpg/essbee.html

http://koti.mbnet.fi/area51/softversio/Oliver...
LillyAndGish

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#19
Mar 18, 2010
 
fr brown wrote:
<quoted text>
"SBTC" is associated with Psalm 35, the psalm the Bible was opened to. Thomas suggests that Patsy sat at the desk with the Bible opened when writing the ransom note. The text certainly speaks to her beleaguered state.
I'd have to find something that associated Patsy with "Saved by the cross" to give that credence. I was brought up Catholic so maybe that's why that phrase doesn't have any resonance for me. I never heard it until this case.
Here's my confusion: This says the Bible in PR's bedroom was open to Psalm 118, not JR's Bible.

<<<The bible in Patsy's bedroom allegedly was turned to Psalms 118>>>

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/Interpretin...
deb

Minneapolis, MN

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#20
Mar 18, 2010
 
Also, Jess McReynolds, son of Bill, was a gamer and designed RPG games.

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