Could a familial DNA search find JonBenet's killer?

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“2009, 2011, 2012”

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#22
Oct 28, 2011
 

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Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Which WS? The single B or the double BB?
Why don't you just post it instead of insinuating the RDI are purposely NOT bringing something up? Put it up for discussion, Lord knows we could use it!
L_E, why is it necessary to point out something that was clear in my post? Did you not see that I said, "Websleuths"? As for my insinuation that RDI are purposely not bringing up the subject, they had ample opportunity to address it at the site and it was that to which I referred. And, it was not a matter of bringing up the subject, rather, it was a matter of addressing a subject that had already been brought up. They didn't.

I'll run this part by you just to see what kind of repercussions fly. The post in question was by BlueCrab. And, like I said, I did recognize hats of some posters who are now posting under different hats here. Were you among those who were posting at Websleuths back in 2003-2004? I'll be forthright in saying I was not. I WAS busy posting at Webbsleuths, which is probably why I didn't see the posts at Websleuths. I wish I had, since they contained information I never found out about till yesterday! Whether that info is valid, I can't say. But it appears to be logical, at least.

I've heard speculation that BlueCrab was actually Steve Thomas. I honestly can't say. But since BC seemed to have a good, direct source of information, I don't discount the possibility. It would be interesting to know if this is true. It would also be interesting to know if BlueCrab is still posting and if he is, what hat he is now using since I've not even heard of him posting in several years. I do know that Steve Thomas now seems to be avoiding all the Internet forums.

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#23
Oct 28, 2011
 

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candy wrote:
BPD knows all about familial DNA, it's used in Colorado, and I believe it's been used in this case, and like everything else, turned up NOTHING.
It was a familial DNA match that turned up the Grim Sleeper rapist of 30 plus years in Los Angeles. A familial match matched his son, who was in prison.
Candy, I believe that this presents even more proof that the DNA in this case is a red herring.

If it WAS used in this case, I'd like to know more details. How would they have used it? Did they test various members of families associated with the Rams? Did they test relatives of JMK? Helgoth? Gigax? F & P White? The Stines?

I'm afraid I don't know enough about the procedures for testing familial DNA, so I'd really like to know how they would have done such a search. Thanks.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

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#24
Oct 28, 2011
 

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Ole South wrote:
<quoted text>
L_E, why is it necessary to point out something that was clear in my post? Did you not see that I said, "Websleuths"? As for my insinuation that RDI are purposely not bringing up the subject, they had ample opportunity to address it at the site and it was that to which I referred. And, it was not a matter of bringing up the subject, rather, it was a matter of addressing a subject that had already been brought up. They didn't.
Because before I made any further comment, I wanted to be sure which one you were really referring to so as not to say the wrong thing with you or anyone. Many people, even to date, when referring to WeBBsleuths (the “BB” aka Jameson’s) spell it with one “B” WeBsleuths (Originally River’s and now Tricia’s) when spelling it in conversation. You have always asked me to ask if I had a question and not to assume. There are many here at Topix who wouldn’t know the difference.
Ole South wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll run this part by you just to see what kind of repercussions fly. The post in question was by BlueCrab. And, like I said, I did recognize hats of some posters who are now posting under different hats here. Were you among those who were posting at Websleuths back in 2003-2004? I'll be forthright in saying I was not. I WAS busy posting at Webbsleuths, which is probably why I didn't see the posts at Websleuths. I wish I had, since they contained information I never found out about till yesterday! Whether that info is valid, I can't say. But it appears to be logical, at least.
I was actively posting there at that time and throughout all the years since then as well.
Ole South wrote:
<quoted text>
I've heard speculation that BlueCrab was actually Steve Thomas. I honestly can't say. But since BC seemed to have a good, direct source of information, I don't discount the possibility. It would be interesting to know if this is true. It would also be interesting to know if BlueCrab is still posting and if he is, what hat he is now using since I've not even heard of him posting in several years. I do know that Steve Thomas now seems to be avoiding all the Internet forums.
I can help you with that.
ST was not BC
I wouldn’t say all forums. He has an active account at FFJ.

“2009, 2011, 2012”

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#26
Oct 28, 2011
 

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Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Because before I made any further comment, I wanted to be sure which one you were really referring to so as not to say the wrong thing with you or anyone. Many people, even to date, when referring to WeBBsleuths (the “BB” aka Jameson’s) spell it with one “B” WeBsleuths (Originally River’s and now Tricia’s) when spelling it in conversation. You have always asked me to ask if I had a question and not to assume. There are many here at Topix who wouldn’t know the difference.
With your explanation, your wanting clarification is understandable; however, it did seem as though you were questioning whether is was I who didn't know the difference. Incidentally, since your said, "Originally River's and now Tricia's" when you explained, one-B WeBsleuths, I hope you don't mind a correction. Originally, it was Murphy's Websleuths, Murphy and Jameson having split up over differences that are rather vague. Murhy ended up with the name and when Jameson shortly thereafter formed her own forum, she added the other "S", she says for Jack Webb of Dragnet fame. I don't know at what point River took over but somewhere between Murphy and Tricia, Lovely Pigeon took it over. There might have been more. But these are ones of whom I am aware.
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>

I was actively posting there at that time and throughout all the years since then as well.
<quoted text>
Might I ask what hat you used? I don't mind saying that throughout all the years I posted at Webbsleuths (from 1997 till it closed), I posted as mBm.
Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>

I can help you with that.
ST was not BC
I wouldn’t say all forums. He has an active account at FFJ.
When you say "he", are you talking about Thomas or BlueCrab? It appears you are talking about Thomas, but like you, I would like clarification.

If you are NOT talking about BlueCrab, do you know what became of him?

Thank you.

Incidentally, since you were member/poster back then, you should be able to ascertain what I'm talking about. I just tried to go to the site where I saw all this, but I'm having difficulty finding it. When I do, I'll get back.

“2009, 2011, 2012”

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#27
Oct 28, 2011
 

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Here is the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/inde...

(Since posts were not numbered, this is in BlueCrab's post on 01-22-2006, at 11:21 p.m.)

"I consider the thought of JonBenet being grotesquely posed because there's some evidence that this murder was the work of a sexual sadist. The injuries that appear to be stun gun burns on the face, back and leg suggests torture had accompanied the bondage, the penetration, and THE POSSIBLE USE OF FECES. Sexual sadists obtain pleasure from inflicting pain and humiliation on their victims." (This does not in any way allow for the belief that either of her parents could have participated in such gruesome, grotesque conduct.)

When Quintana Shotts was interviewed by the Sonoma S.O., she said JMK had led her down to the basement where he wanted her to have sex with him in feces. She refused. So after seeing the above statement by BlueCrab, my thoughts immediately went to Tana telling about this incident with Karr.

I know this isn't necessarily peculiar to Karr since a lot of sexual sadists might participate in this quirk, but since we now have evidence that he's probably been involved in such things before, it makes it even more likely that Karr fits this profile. And it makes him even more repulsive and seemingly capable of the crime.

This mention of "the possible use of feces" makes me think that if this was indeed the case, then it's very possible that cleaning her body was for the purpose of removing any remaining feces rather than to get rid of any DNA on her body.

Another thing that ties in is Linda Arndt's claim that her body had a peculiar stench about it. WE immediately thought of the odor of a death stench. Not knowing of what could have actually occurred, no one ever thought of what could have really been the cause of that stench!

Strange how one thing leads to another...

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

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#28
Oct 29, 2011
 

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Ole South wrote:
<quoted text>
With your explanation, your wanting clarification is understandable; however, it did seem as though you were questioning whether is was I who didn't know the difference. Incidentally, since your said, "Originally River's and now Tricia's" when you explained, one-B WeBsleuths, I hope you don't mind a correction. Originally, it was Murphy's Websleuths, Murphy and Jameson having split up over differences that are rather vague. Murhy ended up with the name and when Jameson shortly thereafter formed her own forum, she added the other "S", she says for Jack Webb of Dragnet fame. I don't know at what point River took over but somewhere between Murphy and Tricia, Lovely Pigeon took it over. There might have been more. But these are ones of whom I am aware.
Good point, I knew it was Murphy’s and about the split, my bad for saying ‘originally’ as my point was only intended to differentiate between Jameson and River. Thanks for clarifying for those who didn’t know. I think you mean Jameson added the second “B” though, right instead of “S” like you said? I have all those old boards on CD, now THERE is a trip down memory lane, LOL! Between that and the old BNF board which I also have, one could read for weeks!
Ole South wrote:
<quoted text>
Might I ask what hat you used? I don't mind saying that throughout all the years I posted at Webbsleuths (from 1997 till it closed), I posted as mBm.
I don’t mind you asking at all, and I am sure you won’t mind that I don’t answer.
Ole South wrote:
<quoted text>
When you say "he", are you talking about Thomas or BlueCrab? It appears you are talking about Thomas, but like you, I would like clarification.
If you are NOT talking about BlueCrab, do you know what became of him? Thank you.
Yes, I was referring to ST. I have no idea whatever became of BC, he quit posting at WS in ’08 I think.

“YES”

Since: Mar 07

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#29
Oct 29, 2011
 

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Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point, I knew it was Murphy’s and about the split, my bad for saying ‘originally’ as my point was only intended to differentiate between Jameson and River. Thanks for clarifying for those who didn’t know. I think you mean Jameson added the second “B” though, right instead of “S” like you said? I have all those old boards on CD, now THERE is a trip down memory lane, LOL! Between that and the old BNF board which I also have, one could read for weeks!
<quoted text>
I don’t mind you asking at all, and I am sure you won’t mind that I don’t answer.
<quoted text>
Yes, I was referring to ST. I have no idea whatever became of BC, he quit posting at WS in ’08 I think.
Maybe someone can refresh my memory, but since I did post with BC for a long time, I remember that he was a little unnerved by threats of sorts about his theory. He was brave enough to be one of the first posters to actually have a BDI theory which he was adamant about and also included the babysitter of the Stine boy

At one time, he was invited to post at Jameson's forum and according to some, and I don't know how true it is, but hopefully someone will remember, he was naive enough to go there, and there, one had to give personal information to post. He claimed at the time that he was fearful and might have been intimidated about a lawsuit or worse, but right after that, he disappeared from the forums. I tend to believe the threats were real, given past confirmed stories of posters personal info being used against them, but that's just my opinion and feelings about it. The timing of his disappearance from the forums justifies my thoughts.

He was a bright and articulate poster and lots of people were upset by his absence, myself included

“2009, 2011, 2012”

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#30
Oct 29, 2011
 

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Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point, I knew it was Murphy’s and about the split, my bad for saying ‘originally’ as my point was only intended to differentiate between Jameson and River. Thanks for clarifying for those who didn’t know. I think you mean Jameson added the second “B” though, right instead of “S” like you said? I have all those old boards on CD, now THERE is a trip down memory lane, LOL! Between that and the old BNF board which I also have, one could read for weeks!
<quoted text>
I don’t mind you asking at all, and I am sure you won’t mind that I don’t answer.
<quoted text>
Yes, I was referring to ST. I have no idea whatever became of BC, he quit posting at WS in ’08 I think.
Sorry, yes I did mean to say "B" instead of "S" (sometimes my fingers don't do what my brain tells them to do, LOL). The reason I asked about your hat is that I like to be able to compare how people felt back "when" to how they feel now. In my case, I've changed by opinions and stances on who is guilty several times.(At least I can claim to have an open mind!)

As for BlueCrab believing Burke was the guilty party, he did seem to believe that; however, I've heard many times that he was one of the first posters to espouse that JAR was, although I've never found any of his posts saying so.

As for his posting on Jams' forum, I vaguely remember a poster (and it seems the name was the same or very similar) who started posting who was wild and extreme in his "rants" (and I would describe them as "rants"). He was very eratic, disruptive, wild, and confrontational, to put it mildly. I was surprised that Jameson tolerated him as long as she did, but, finally, she booted him. I can't say for certain that the poster I remember was "BlueCrab", but it seems the guy did have "Blue" as part of his hat. In reading his posts on Websleuths, he doesn't appear to be the same person, that is, if comparing his demeanor in his posts.

Incidentally, I found another of his old posts wherein he said that when Burke was very young, he was molested by a person "outside" the family and he could prove it since he had it "in writing". This was another instance of posters not asking for more or inquiring about his remarks, which IMO should have produced some inquiries about his claims. If his statement was true, the alleged molestation would have taken place in Atlanta since when Burke was of the age claimed, they were living there at the time. I can't imagine that something like this would not have been reported in the news unless BlueCrab had access to confidential juvenile records (I would assume something like this would have been handled as a confidential matter.)

But getting back to what he said about the perp being a sexual sadist, I believe it fits JMK to a T. And, if all he said was true, it's hard to believe that he would still have thought Burke was involved since there is no evidence whatsoever that Burke fit the description he gave of the killer and his sadistic proclivities.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

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#31
Oct 29, 2011
 
Ole South wrote:
<quoted text>

As for his posting on Jams' forum, I vaguely remember a poster (and it seems the name was the same or very similar) who started posting who was wild and extreme in his "rants" (and I would describe them as "rants"). He was very eratic, disruptive, wild, and confrontational, to put it mildly. I was surprised that Jameson tolerated him as long as she did, but, finally, she booted him. I can't say for certain that the poster I remember was "BlueCrab", but it seems the guy did have "Blue" as part of his hat. In reading his posts on Websleuths, he doesn't appear to be the same person, that is, if comparing his demeanor in his posts.
I think you are thinking of Bluefire.

“YES”

Since: Mar 07

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#32
Oct 29, 2011
 

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It is Bluefire and not Bluecrab although many have confused the two over the years, which is a real shame

Bluefire is a pedophile and I won't speculate why Jameson tolerated him, but he was a friend of hers and supposedly he was the one who helped her pull the stunt with Ariana Pugh and the porno charges

In any event, they are different posters entirely. Bluefire is a pervert and a pedophile and Bluecrab was just a poster with a BDI theory who paid dearly for having it, getting run off the forums.

Many complained about Bluefire posting and finally he left Jameson's forum, but not because Jameson wanted him off; I think his presence was upsetting her members and they paid so off he went

“2009, 2011, 2012”

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#33
Oct 29, 2011
 

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Legal__Eagle wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are thinking of Bluefire.
You are right! Now I remember; it was Bluefire who was so alarmingly disgusting and upsetting to us. We did complain about him but I don't believe he left the forum of his own accord. IMO, he definitely was booted.

I believe that BlueCrab must have had some connections in order for him to have said some of the things he said. The two things I've brought up here, I don't believe he just picked out of the blue. Especially when he said, "I have it in writing" (paraphrasing). The thing is, all this took place BEFORE JMK came on the scene. And now that I've found out so much about Karr, almost everything BC said just fits him to a T, whereas it would be hard to make his claims apply to Burke...especially when one considers what a monster he has described as the killer.
M Michigan

Tecumseh, MI

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#34
Oct 29, 2011
 

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Dark hair found at crim seen - DNA can help.

Is natural hair better than synthetic?
Modern synthetic brushes are excellent and have the advantage of being cheaper than natural hair. Purists will tell you that no synthetic fiber can beat a Kolinsky sable, considered the ultimate of soft hairs because of its flexibility and strength, which give an artist great control. If you're at all squeamish about or ideologically opposed to the sources of natural hair, then synthetic brushes are the way to go.

What natural hairs are used in paint brushes?
•Sable: The ultimate soft brush is made from the hairs on the tail of a sable marten; these taper naturally, so when they're put into a brush they form a point. Sable brushes are expensive, but are renowned for their softness, flexibility, and fine point. Kolinsky sable from Siberia has traditionally been considered the best hair for watercolor brushes.
•Squirrel: Cheaper than sable, squirrel is a soft hair with little spring. Larger squirrel brushes work better than smaller ones because the mass of hairs together gives them support.
•Hog/bristle: The ultimate hard brush is made from the hairs on the back of a pig (hog), which are strong yet springy. The bristles have natural split-ends, which increases the amount of paint they hold. Used for oils and acrylics.
•Camel: Brushes labeled 'camel' hair are really made from other types of soft hair. Camel hair is unsuitable for brushes because it's too woolly.
•Ox: Long, strong and springy hair.
•Pony: Coarse hair that doesn't form a good point. Often used in cheaper brushes
•Goat: Lacks spring, but forms a good point. Used in calligraphy and Chinese Brush painting.
The Truth Hurts

United States

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#35
Oct 29, 2011
 

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M Michigan wrote:
Dark hair found at crim seen - DNA can help.
Is natural hair better than synthetic?
Modern synthetic brushes are excellent and have the advantage of being cheaper than natural hair. Purists will tell you that no synthetic fiber can beat a Kolinsky sable, considered the ultimate of soft hairs because of its flexibility and strength, which give an artist great control. If you're at all squeamish about or ideologically opposed to the sources of natural hair, then synthetic brushes are the way to go.
What natural hairs are used in paint brushes?
•Sable: The ultimate soft brush is made from the hairs on the tail of a sable marten; these taper naturally, so when they're put into a brush they form a point. Sable brushes are expensive, but are renowned for their softness, flexibility, and fine point. Kolinsky sable from Siberia has traditionally been considered the best hair for watercolor brushes.
•Squirrel: Cheaper than sable, squirrel is a soft hair with little spring. Larger squirrel brushes work better than smaller ones because the mass of hairs together gives them support.
•Hog/bristle: The ultimate hard brush is made from the hairs on the back of a pig (hog), which are strong yet springy. The bristles have natural split-ends, which increases the amount of paint they hold. Used for oils and acrylics.
•Camel: Brushes labeled 'camel' hair are really made from other types of soft hair. Camel hair is unsuitable for brushes because it's too woolly.
•Ox: Long, strong and springy hair.
•Pony: Coarse hair that doesn't form a good point. Often used in cheaper brushes
•Goat: Lacks spring, but forms a good point. Used in calligraphy and Chinese Brush painting.
No need to post this all over the forum.

You don't want the reputation of being a spammer, do you? ;)

“2009, 2011, 2012”

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#36
Oct 29, 2011
 

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The Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
No need to post this all over the forum.
You don't want the reputation of being a spammer, do you? ;)
Perhaps the intent was to divert attention from what was pointed out that BlueCrab had said about JonBenet's killer being a sexual sadist and the true reason for her body having been wiped down.
Sparky

Las Vegas, NV

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#37
Nov 9, 2011
 

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Lynette wrote:
<quoted text> That's true, Kassie, it did help convict BTK and was another case solved using familial searching. Had Dennis Rader not been arrested, who knows how many more victims would have died at his hands?
Including the 10 he was convicted of Wichita, 37 by my count. 7 in the Bay Area, 1 in Tahoe, 3 in So Cal, 2 on Radar Beach in BC, 2 near Mt Shasta, 6 little girls in Washington DC, 3 members of the Fager family, Sherry Baker, Ricky McCormick and JonBenet. Me - 37. Did i forget anybody?
I'll bet you piss down your leg every time you see a cop don't you?
Henri McPhee

Shrewsbury, UK

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#38
Dec 1, 2011
 

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There was an interesting murder case in Wales, UK, in which familial DNA was used to find the killer.

The lousy Welsh detectives first arrested the wrong people until the real culprit was found. It shows that can happen. It's a pity the real culprits have never been identified in the macDonald case, or the Ramsey case, or even the Darlie Routier case in America.

The case against the Welsh detectives for perverting the course of justice has just collapsed, which is why it is in the British news.

This is some background information to the case from an internet wiki:

"The murder of Lynette White was committed on Saint Valentine's Day, 1988 in Cardiff, Wales. Twenty year old White, a prostitute, was stabbed over fifty times in her flat above a bookmaker's at 7 James Street, Butetown.[1] In March 1988 South Wales Police identified as their prime suspect a white male who had been seen, blood-stained and in a distressed state, outside the flat shortly after the murder. Releasing a photofit of the suspect to the press and public Detective Chief Superintendent John Williams said: "This man almost certainly had the blood of the deceased on him."[2] However, in November 1988 five black men were arrested and charged with the murder, largely based on the evidence of two other prostitutes who knew White.[3] One of the five, who had a mental age of 11, confessed to the killing after making 300 denials during five days of police interrogation.[1] The subsequent trial, held at Swansea Crown Court, was at the time the longest murder trial in British legal history, lasting 197 days, and led to three of the five accused being found guilty of White's murder.[4] The trial had originally commenced in 1989, but was interrupted due to the death of the judge.[5] In November 1990 Tony Paris, Yusef Abdullahi and Stephen Miller - who became known as the "Cardiff Three" - were each sentenced to life imprisonment.[3][6][7] Their appeal was heard in December 1992 and ended after four days when Lord Justice Taylor listened to an audio recording of Stephen Miller's police interrogation. Lord Taylor said that the police had "bullied and hectored" Miller during a "travesty of an interview" and that "short of physical violence, it is hard to conceive of a more hostile and intimidating approach by officers to a suspect." He ordered copies of the recording to be sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Chairman of the Royal Commission on Criminal Justice as an "example of what we hope we shall never hear again in this court".[8] All three men had their convictions overturned and were released.

In September 2000 the case was reopened and detectives discovered fresh forensic evidence, including a small trace of blood on the cellophane wrapper from a cigarette packet and a further ten traces of the same blood underneath several layers of paint on a skirting board at the crime scene.[9] The killer was dubbed "Cellophane Man" by scientists and detectives.[10] No match was found in the United Kingdom National DNA Database. In January 2002, after the development of the Second Generation Multiplex Plus (SGM+) test, forensic scientists were finally able to obtain a reliable crime scene DNA profile.[11] Using the process of familial searching, a partial match was eventually made with the profile of a 14-year-old youth who was known to the police but who had not been born at the time of the murder. This led to the arrest on 28 February 2003 of Jeffrey Gafoor, an uncle of the youth.[10][12] Gafoor was tried in July 2003. On 4 July 2003, at Cardiff Crown Court, he pleaded guilty to White's murder and the judge, Mr Justice Royce, sentenced him to life imprisonment.[11]"
candy

East Lansing, MI

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#39
Jul 11, 2013
 

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A very interesting familial DNA hit in the 50 year old Boston strangler case. It hit the man who was believed to be the Boston Strangler, who spent all his life denying that he was him:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/us/dna-evid...

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