What kind of instrument yields this t...

What kind of instrument yields this type of wound?

Posted in the JonBenet Ramsey Forum

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Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#1 Aug 11, 2014
Had the BPD and the forensics experts been more speculative and experimented to determine what kind of weapon could have caused that type of fracture without cutting the scalp, do you think this case could have been solved?
Note

Swartz Creek, MI

#2 Aug 11, 2014
The item that best matches the head damage is the metal ball bat found just out side the butler door, the round knob end fit the damage very well. Carpet fiber on the bat match the fiber next to were JonBent was killed. Also the neighbor heard the metal on concrete that late night. as the killer place the bat on the concrete top
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#3 Aug 13, 2014
I just feel that had the forensic team concentrated more effort on determining the object that had caused the blow to Jonbenet's skull, then perhaps they would have had more luck solving the crime.

Just because that bat was found outside the home, doesn't mean it was dropped there by an intruder. Naturally, the family would have disposed of the bat after wiping off fingerprints. And it would stand to reason that a bat tossed from a doorway onto concrete would have made more noise than a dropped bat. Unless I am mistaken, the knife and ice pick that killed Jeffrey MacDonald's family were found just outside the back door and he was found guilty of their murders. What fool of an intruder ditches the murder weapon just outside the home? Wouldn't they carry it off and dispose of it elsewhere?
Note

Swartz Creek, MI

#4 Aug 13, 2014
The killer would not ant to walk do the street with a metal child bat in the dark. A neighbor head metal on concrete sound that night.

Knob end fit the damage 100%

Fibers match.

Not link to the family.

The Lab

Boulder police will hold back some crime scene information about damage to JonBenet. This is how we link the killer to the crime.

Black child bat.
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#5 Aug 13, 2014
Note wrote:
The killer would not ant to walk do the street with a metal child bat in the dark. A neighbor head metal on concrete sound that night.
Knob end fit the damage 100%
Fibers match.
Not link to the family.
The Lab
Boulder police will hold back some crime scene information about damage to JonBenet. This is how we link the killer to the crime.
Black child bat.
Seems to me this intruder was either fairly brazen or stupid. Considering his antics while inside the home, I can most definitely see him carrying the bat through the neighborhood. He managed to get in and out of the house like a ghost--he should have had no concern with tucking a bat under his arm and carrying it a further distance from the home. But why not take the garrote too. It was the actual murder weapon and should have been rife with DNA. Why pick up the ordinary thing--a child's bat--and drop it in the yard? Unless someone was hoping the police would only consider that because of a garrote that her death was due to the molestation and strangulation of a pedophile. Not a blow from a bat. A blow another child may have inflicted. Like an envious or agitated sibling?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#6 Aug 14, 2014
She was pushed or fell into something. A bat or anything similar would have broke her skin. Skull displacement without laceration suggests her head's inertia caused the fracture. Unless she was attacked with a rubber mallet sledge hammer a weapon doesn't jive.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#7 Aug 14, 2014
JimmyWells wrote:
She was pushed or fell into something. A bat or anything similar would have broke her skin. Skull displacement without laceration suggests her head's inertia caused the fracture. Unless she was attacked with a rubber mallet sledge hammer a weapon doesn't jive.
I believe that is why the rubber encased flashlight is a viable option since it would not have caused a break in the skin as well. I agree with you that the bat would have, especially the smaller end.
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#8 Aug 14, 2014
If something had been thrown at her, could that have caused this kind of wound? A heavy object thrown with enough force but from a distance that would have prevented a laceration to the scalp?

I had thought, like Wells, that perhaps she was thrown against a bannister or perhaps a bathroom sink. Maybe she was grabbed by the collar, as Kolar suggested, and then thrust backward onto the bathroom lavatory.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#9 Aug 15, 2014
If a fist can rip a fat padded cheek open I just find it hard to believe that something as hard as a skull wouldn't be lacerated with that kind of trauma underneath. I don't buy the bat or golf club for one second. Both those instruments would have caused a laceration. I also don't think that even a bodybuilder could have done that kind of damage with a flashlight, not enough torque. Falling or being thrown into something rounded could produce displacement without laceration. Depending on her height possibly the corner of a sink. I would say the railing on the spiral staircase as well but there would be more injuries to the rest of her body if she took that tumble. I'm thinking something rounded and hollow. It would be interesting if someone knew how high her sink was in her bathroom in relation to her height. The location of the wound suggests she was pushed into something or she was chopped with a weapon laying flat on her stomach with her face directly in the pillow. The impact was almost centered but off to the right a little bit at pretty much the rear crown of her skull. So unless Jonbenet slept face down directly into the pillow (which is impossible to breathe) I see only three possibilities. She was shoved into a rounded but hard surface, she was chopped from behind while sitting or standing, or she was unconscious, directly facedown and bashed at some point. I do see the shoving theory as the most valid but we cannot discount that she did have a chin abrasion, most likely from the basement carpet, which could have happened if her head was struck from behind while lying prone. The carpet could have been padding enough so the skull would have absorbed the blow without causing facial trauma.
real Topaz

AOL

#10 Aug 15, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
If something had been thrown at her, could that have caused this kind of wound? A heavy object thrown with enough force but from a distance that would have prevented a laceration to the scalp?
I had thought, like Wells, that perhaps she was thrown against a bannister or perhaps a bathroom sink. Maybe she was grabbed by the collar, as Kolar suggested, and then thrust backward onto the bathroom lavatory.
Hi Just W, I agree with the corner of JB's pedastal sink..just the right height and hitting it quickly and bouncing off would probably leave the scalp intact.
Undrtheradar

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#11 Aug 15, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to me this intruder was either fairly brazen or stupid. Considering his antics while inside the home, I can most definitely see him carrying the bat through the neighborhood. He managed to get in and out of the house like a ghost--he should have had no concern with tucking a bat under his arm and carrying it a further distance from the home. But why not take the garrote too. It was the actual murder weapon and should have been rife with DNA. Why pick up the ordinary thing--a child's bat--and drop it in the yard? Unless someone was hoping the police would only consider that because of a garrote that her death was due to the molestation and strangulation of a pedophile. Not a blow from a bat. A blow another child may have inflicted. Like an envious or agitated sibling?
He was brazen...

You could see a killer walking down the street with a baseball bat??? With no mit and glove??? Really???

Im sorry that just does not sound logical...
Undrtheradar

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#12 Aug 15, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to me this intruder was either fairly brazen or stupid. Considering his antics while inside the home, I can most definitely see him carrying the bat through the neighborhood. He managed to get in and out of the house like a ghost--he should have had no concern with tucking a bat under his arm and carrying it a further distance from the home. But why not take the garrote too. It was the actual murder weapon and should have been rife with DNA. Why pick up the ordinary thing--a child's bat--and drop it in the yard? Unless someone was hoping the police would only consider that because of a garrote that her death was due to the molestation and strangulation of a pedophile. Not a blow from a bat. A blow another child may have inflicted. Like an envious or agitated sibling?
Here try this experiment...put your logic to the test....get an aluminum bat and just start walking around a different neighborhood than yours with that bat...see how people look at u...if your a person of color I wouldnt recommend it though.
Note

Swartz Creek, MI

#13 Aug 16, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to me this intruder was either fairly brazen or stupid. Considering his antics while inside the home, I can most definitely see him carrying the bat through the neighborhood. He managed to get in and out of the house like a ghost--he should have had no concern with tucking a bat under his arm and carrying it a further distance from the home. But why not take the garrote too. It was the actual murder weapon and should have been rife with DNA. Why pick up the ordinary thing--a child's bat--and drop it in the yard? Unless someone was hoping the police would only consider that because of a garrote that her death was due to the molestation and strangulation of a pedophile. Not a blow from a bat. A blow another child may have inflicted. Like an envious or agitated sibling?
The cord was ties so tie that it had to be cut off, by not trying to untie the knot, it would stay in the file unchanged. Keep the type of knot tied as the killer left it in this crime.

The lab.
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#14 Aug 16, 2014
Undrtheradar wrote:
<quoted text>
Here try this experiment...put your logic to the test....get an aluminum bat and just start walking around a different neighborhood than yours with that bat...see how people look at u...if your a person of color I wouldnt recommend it though.
You are correct, merely walking through a residential neighborhood of that caliber at two in the morning would be suspicious?! Wouldn't you think?

Well let's see. This intruder was able to walk around the yard without leaving tracks. This intruder managed to get into the home undetected through a basement window that John said he had to strip down to his undies in order to slide through the summer before. In addition, he did not bring in debris or break spider webs attached to the grill or window. He was able to wonder through the house taking time to write a three page ransom note without the neighbors noticing anything odd. Jonbenet acquiesced and ate pineapple for him after he had stunned her and carried her downstairs. Oh, an I almost forgot, he felt comfortable enough to fix himself a glass of tea. He not only decided to club her but also to strangle her with a garrote that apparently didn't operate as it should. And he tied her arms very loosely. Then he managed to leave the home without any of the neighbors seeing him.

May I suggest, that having been able to accomplishment the above, he would think nothing of grasping the bat, extending his arm at his side with the bat facing behind and walking casually down a back street or however he managed to leave the home and to whatever direction he decided to use for his escape? Just taking the bat a block away would have hampered the investigation to some extent.

By the way, if he wouldn't carry a bat through the neighborhood, how did he intend to escape carrying a child? Or did he not plan that far in advance?
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#15 Aug 16, 2014
If the bat in the yard was the murder instrument then it was there because the Ramseys disposed of it there. They knew that leaving the home that night in their car would bring testimony from their neighbors.

That is assuming that the bat would have left that kind of wound without breaking the scalp. Most people seem to think it wouldn't have.
Undrtheradar

Kansas City, MO

#17 Aug 19, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct, merely walking through a residential neighborhood of that caliber at two in the morning would be suspicious?! Wouldn't you think?
Well let's see. This intruder was able to walk around the yard without leaving tracks. This intruder managed to get into the home undetected through a basement window that John said he had to strip down to his undies in order to slide through the summer before. In addition, he did not bring in debris or break spider webs attached to the grill or window. He was able to wonder through the house taking time to write a three page ransom note without the neighbors noticing anything odd. Jonbenet acquiesced and ate pineapple for him after he had stunned her and carried her downstairs. Oh, an I almost forgot, he felt comfortable enough to fix himself a glass of tea. He not only decided to club her but also to strangle her with a garrote that apparently didn't operate as it should. And he tied her arms very loosely. Then he managed to leave the home without any of the neighbors seeing him.
May I suggest, that having been able to accomplishment the above, he would think nothing of grasping the bat, extending his arm at his side with the bat facing behind and walking casually down a back street or however he managed to leave the home and to whatever direction he decided to use for his escape? Just taking the bat a block away would have hampered the investigation to some extent.
By the way, if he wouldn't carry a bat through the neighborhood, how did he intend to escape carrying a child? Or did he not plan that far in advance?
U made alot of points lets take them one at a time

He was able to walk around the yard without leaving tracks because the sidewalk has no snow...and anyone whos ever lived in snow will tell u when the snow is light it can be in the grass but melts on the sidewalk

I cant say he got in thru the basement window for sure this is one of those facts that only the intruder would know how exactly he got in...i just know he did get in

He was indeed able to wonder around the house without the neighbors seeing anything...not sure how the neighbors would be able to see whats goin on inside the Ramseys home anyways

Apparently she did eat pineapple...now can we say if she would eat pineapple from someone who just stunned her or not....im not going to do what u did and draw any conclusion because i dont know what she would have done...i just know she did eat pineapple

Yes he did feel comfortable enough fix tea and here's why I believe he did...tea that is put in a glass and not a mug typicallly iced tea...i believe he made a glass of sweat tea and left it on the table to send another message to the Ramseys of his identity that he luvs southern style sweet iced tea

Yes he did club her and garrotte her fact

Yes he tied her arms and left the home without anyone seeing...if it was early morning this is very possible

Im still not sure why u believe he would take the bat as your first comment stated it would be noticeable...if he left the garrotte he may as well leave the bat....maybe they will show his handywork on the news...he enjoys seeing his handywork on the news

He never intended to escape carrying a child....it was a deadly game of hide and seek...hide the child long enough to get the money
Note

Swartz Creek, MI

#18 Aug 19, 2014
An intruter will enter and exit a home the way he think is a safe way in and a safe way out.
A neightboor seen a white male walk up to the house just before 5:00 pm Christmas night, right after the family left the home for a Christmas dinner with friends. The person walking on the sidewalk turn at the edges of the front right side of the house and walk toward the Butler door.
Earler in the day, the chirdren had many neightboor friends over to play inside and out side the house. They went in and out many time from many doors. John said that day with all of the things to do that these door were not check and lock. He live in a very safe neightboor. 6,800 sq,ft. house.
The police found seven window and a door unlock. These were on the ground level.
The Butler door was found unlock by police that morning.
A killer will find a safe and easy way in and will use that safe and easy way out.
Because this door was found unlock, we must not count this importance peice of information as unimportance because it point away from the Boulder police persons of interest.
The side yard was clear of snow, side walks and gravel landscaping on the finish grade would not support and foot impressions.
The sid eyard was used as a walking path, used by mant to cut from the alleyway to 15th street. From the drive way side, it had stepping stones to mguild you there.
This was a simple way to cut thought to the streets by family and any one who walk in the area.
Because unknow people cut thought this path, one should not count this out as a way for the killer to gain knowage of the house. This door, the Butler door was out of site from the main part of the house. You could easly enter the house and move to the basement steps and never be seen from inside the house.
The alleyway is 15 foot wide. A dark street that is 730 feet long with wood fences and tree line, making this a good place to exit the neightboorhood and not be seen. The alleyway have many choices to exit if need be.
A netal base ball bat was found to the left of stree side of this unlock door by police. There resting show us that the fibers found on the bay MATCHES the fibers on the basement floor carpet were Jonbenet was killer. A match. The family was ask if they knew about this bat and they could not ID the bat as theirs.
Jonbent had damage to her head, one impack was to her side portion of her head just above the ear. Under the hair was the damage that matches the knob end of this child bat. The long crake to her head could be easly cause by the bat itself. The killer place the bat on the top surface on the wall as he left the property. A neighboor herd metal rubing on concrete that late night. This was enter into the official file.
The killer would not want to travel down the street late night in Boulder with a base ball bat in his hands if he was seen by any one.
His fingerless black gloves would have left no fingerprints on the bat.
The Butler door, this room was used by Patsy and Jonbenet to paint painting just brfore Christmas.
The items use in ths crime was move from this location to the hall way where Jonbenet wall killerd.
The killer printed in the note, "He will monitor the family"
The side yard would be a easy place to do this weeks before.
The Lab.
Undrtheradar

Kansas City, MO

#19 Aug 19, 2014
Note wrote:
An intruter will enter and exit a home the way he think is a safe way in and a safe way out.
A neightboor seen a white male walk up to the house just before 5:00 pm Christmas night, right after the family left the home for a Christmas dinner with friends. The person walking on the sidewalk turn at the edges of the front right side of the house and walk toward the Butler door.
Earler in the day, the chirdren had many neightboor friends over to play inside and out side the house. They went in and out many time from many doors. John said that day with all of the things to do that these door were not check and lock. He live in a very safe neightboor. 6,800 sq,ft. house.
The police found seven window and a door unlock. These were on the ground level.
The Butler door was found unlock by police that morning.
A killer will find a safe and easy way in and will use that safe and easy way out.
Because this door was found unlock, we must not count this importance peice of information as unimportance because it point away from the Boulder police persons of interest.
The side yard was clear of snow, side walks and gravel landscaping on the finish grade would not support and foot impressions.
The sid eyard was used as a walking path, used by mant to cut from the alleyway to 15th street. From the drive way side, it had stepping stones to mguild you there.
This was a simple way to cut thought to the streets by family and any one who walk in the area.
Because unknow people cut thought this path, one should not count this out as a way for the killer to gain knowage of the house. This door, the Butler door was out of site from the main part of the house. You could easly enter the house and move to the basement steps and never be seen from inside the house.
The alleyway is 15 foot wide. A dark street that is 730 feet long with wood fences and tree line, making this a good place to exit the neightboorhood and not be seen. The alleyway have many choices to exit if need be.
A netal base ball bat was found to the left of stree side of this unlock door by police. There resting show us that the fibers found on the bay MATCHES the fibers on the basement floor carpet were Jonbenet was killer. A match. The family was ask if they knew about this bat and they could not ID the bat as theirs.
Jonbent had damage to her head, one impack was to her side portion of her head just above the ear. Under the hair was the damage that matches the knob end of this child bat. The long crake to her head could be easly cause by the bat itself. The killer place the bat on the top surface on the wall as he left the property. A neighboor herd metal rubing on concrete that late night. This was enter into the official file.
The killer would not want to travel down the street late night in Boulder with a base ball bat in his hands if he was seen by any one.
His fingerless black gloves would have left no fingerprints on the bat.
The Butler door, this room was used by Patsy and Jonbenet to paint painting just brfore Christmas.
The items use in ths crime was move from this location to the hall way where Jonbenet wall killerd.
The killer printed in the note, "He will monitor the family"
The side yard would be a easy place to do this weeks before.
The Lab.
I like to put how the killer got into the home into the same category as SBTC, only the killer really knows...there was more than one way to get into the Ramsey hone without signs of forced entry...only the killer knows so spending to much time speculating on this may not be good...just like trying to figure out what SBTC means...
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#20 Aug 19, 2014
Wonder who fed Jonbenet the pineapple and helped himself to a cup of tea and left Patsy's and Burke's fingerprints behind.
Just Wondering

Mount Hope, WV

#21 Aug 19, 2014
There was frost on the sidewalk and on the grass around it. You can tell by the pictures. Nice of him to walk up and down the sidewalk and not through the yard where, no doubt, it would have been quicker to make it from the house to the road.

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