The Ligatures
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“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#243 Nov 14, 2013
You are right on so many levels here because there are many layers of responsibility. Our laws have become sophisticated enough to no longer allow parents to get away with killing their children - except it seems for the Ramseys!
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
You are exactly right
One does not have to be a person holding the gun/knife/weapon to be responsible for someone's death.
They knew the Ramseys were RESPONSIBLE for the death of JBR and while they did not know who did what, it is painfully obvious that they believed one of the Ramseys caused the death.
If a parent allows a toddler to go outside unsupervised to play and that child is hit by a car or dies due to being unsupervised, it is still the parents' RESPONSIBILITY and while they didn't commit any "act" causing a death, it is still their fault.

Since: Feb 12

Pearl City, HI

#245 Nov 14, 2013
Lynette 22 wrote:
<quoted text> You may be right, Bakatari. Or maybe not. Until we learn more details, it's all just speculation. As I said before, it really doesn't mean very much anyway as it is not the job of the GJ to determine innocence or guilt. They can only go by the evidence presented to them and most of the evidence is from the prosecution side. The BPD witnesses no doubt did an excellent job in presenting testimony which was unfavourable to the Ramseys. LHP was another witness who wouldn't have had a good word to say about them, especially Patsy, so it's pretty much one-sided. We must remember too that at that stage the second blood spot on JonBenet's panties had not yet been tested for the DNA which was later entered into Codis, nor did they know about the TDNA which was discovered on her longjohns years later, none of which matched the Ramseys. Had they done so, who knows but they may have voted very differently.
Hi Lynette,
I don't think we will ever know more about the GJ indictment, It wasn't supposed to be leaked out in the first place. Now that it has "leaked" I am sure that the rest of the people involved with that GJ have been gagged.

Now, all we know, and I think all we will ever know about the GJ in this case, was that they did vote to indict the Ramseys for the crime of "child abuse" leading to the death of JBR.

A trial verdict either way, would have settled the debate, while even if acquitted, there would be people still thinking the parent's were guilty, but at least more FACTS would have been exposed. I think the trial, if it was held, would have ended in an acquittal, similar to the OJ Simpson trial, but if acquitted, we still would know all of the evidence.
CC

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#246 Nov 14, 2013
Very true CapricornÖin the very beginning I think it was about a 50/50 debate which quickly escalated to about a 75%-25% even before their first set of police interviews just by their actions alone. When you refuse to talk to the police, people in general tend to believe there are guilty reasons for that.

Now, as more and more of the information has been released through books and the news, all the way to the GJ information of late, the IDI have dwindled to almost ghost status Ė there arenít enough of them to even be a blip on the radar screen, just a slight buzzing in the background.
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed
What Seuss omitted was that the overall general population of the world also believes the Ramseys are responsible and the balance of those who didn't are thinning every day as info comes out
The Ramseys are without a doubt, involved in this crime, along with Burke's knowledge and possible involvement
The Ramseys continue to implicate themselves and Burke's refusal to cooperate as an adult, implicates them even more

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#247 Nov 14, 2013
I don't think the rest will be released either CC, but the information released regarding the specific charges made by the GJ was released in accordance with the law. Granted, the instigation of it was no doubt a leak or a really spot-on hint to the right person, LOL.
Bakatari wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Lynette,
I don't think we will ever know more about the GJ indictment, It wasn't supposed to be leaked out in the first place. Now that it has "leaked" I am sure that the rest of the people involved with that GJ have been gagged.
Now, all we know, and I think all we will ever know about the GJ in this case, was that they did vote to indict the Ramseys for the crime of "child abuse" leading to the death of JBR.
A trial verdict either way, would have settled the debate, while even if acquitted, there would be people still thinking the parent's were guilty, but at least more FACTS would have been exposed. I think the trial, if it was held, would have ended in an acquittal, similar to the OJ Simpson trial, but if acquitted, we still would know all of the evidence.
CC
Just Wondering

Beckley, WV

#248 Nov 14, 2013
Lynette 22 wrote:
<quoted text> It is very difficult, impossible really, to reconcile love and caring with that garrote so viciously embedded into her neck. Whoever constructed that garrote took time and care over it. It was a calculated act, something a mother in a panic would be very, very unlikely to do or even think of doing. To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a case in history of a parent using a garrote on a child.
Burke playing "doctor" with JonBenet is all speculation of course, with no solid foundation for such a belief, but assuming this was the case with JB an unwilling participant, then how do we explain her WILLINGLY going to Burke's bed on the nights she had a bedwetting incident in her own? She had a spare bed in her own room or she could have gone to her parents' bed, so why go to Burke if he was doing things to her she didn't like? Why would he allow her in if she was (presumedly) resisting what he was doing to her? The fact that he did, speaks to me not of any ill-feeling, but rather of patience and tolerance towards his little sister.
The cruelty inflicted on Burke by the media and forum posters alike over the years would be enough to drive most adults crazy, so how a child coped, I don't know. Yet somehow he learnt to rise above it all, finish school, graduate from university and is making the best he can of his life. I've heard he has good friends and is popular with girls. His strength of character is to be admired, but John and Patsy deserve credit too for the way they raised him. Without their love, guidance and protection he could have gone completely off the rails.
It would have been Patsy's love for Burke that would have prompted her to stage a cover-up.

And while a garrote would be something maybe a young boy would come up with, a mother might consent to use it if the victim had strangulation marks or a broken neck that she felt needed to be explained. With no open gash or blood on her head, it could be safe for them to assume that Jonbenet's neck was broken. The garrote might hopefully mask that in Patsy's opinion.(I may be wrong, but I think I recall in one of the books I read, that it was expert opinion that the flesh swelled around the garrote more than that the garrote had dug into the child's neck. Again, I may be wrong, but I do recall reading that.)

Also, if given the choice between taking Jonbenet's body out into the cold to be dumped and perhaps mauled by predators, or masking strangulation marks or a broken neck with a garrote--I think they would see the garrote as more palatable. For lack of a better term.

Perhaps the sexual exploration, which, yes, is purely speculative, was consensual. Either way, Patsy would have been livid. However, I have heard it reported that children tend to gravitate to those who abuse them.

As for Burke, if he is innocent, I hope he comes forward soon to talk with authorities and explain from his perspective what happened the night his sister was murdered. What stops him? You have to wonder.
BrotherMoon

Denver, CO

#249 Nov 14, 2013
There was no cover up. There was no garrote.

Since: Sep 11

Boksburg, South Africa

#250 Nov 15, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
the overall general population of the world also believes the Ramseys are responsible and the balance of those who didn't are thinning every day as info comes out
Could you provide a source for this please, Capricorn? I have never heard of a worldwide survey being done.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#251 Nov 15, 2013
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
It would have been Patsy's love for Burke that would have prompted her to stage a cover-up.
And while a garrote would be something maybe a young boy would come up with, a mother might consent to use it if the victim had strangulation marks or a broken neck that she felt needed to be explained. With no open gash or blood on her head, it could be safe for them to assume that Jonbenet's neck was broken. The garrote might hopefully mask that in Patsy's opinion.(I may be wrong, but I think I recall in one of the books I read, that it was expert opinion that the flesh swelled around the garrote more than that the garrote had dug into the child's neck. Again, I may be wrong, but I do recall reading that.)
Also, if given the choice between taking Jonbenet's body out into the cold to be dumped and perhaps mauled by predators, or masking strangulation marks or a broken neck with a garrote--I think they would see the garrote as more palatable. For lack of a better term.
Perhaps the sexual exploration, which, yes, is purely speculative, was consensual. Either way, Patsy would have been livid. However, I have heard it reported that children tend to gravitate to those who abuse them.
As for Burke, if he is innocent, I hope he comes forward soon to talk with authorities and explain from his perspective what happened the night his sister was murdered. What stops him? You have to wonder.
What stops him? No wonder there The truth stops him just like it stopped his mom and dad.

If he has nothing to add to what they know, and has nothing to hide, there is no rational reason why he shouldn't answer some questions.

I'm sure by now, he has rehearsed the "I don't remember" mantra that his parents taught him and would be free to use it but it's even easier if you just don't go at all it seems

Since: Sep 11

Boksburg, South Africa

#252 Nov 15, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text> I'm sure by now, he has rehearsed the "I don't remember" mantra that his parents taught him
Or perhaps he took a few lessons from his "uncle" Fleet?:)

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#253 Nov 15, 2013
Exactly. So why hasn't he?
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>

If he has nothing to add to what they know, and has nothing to hide, there is no rational reason why he shouldn't answer some questions.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#254 Nov 15, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
Exactly. So why hasn't he?
<quoted text>
I will assume that is a rhetorical question LOL

We all know the answer to that. He's not about to tell the truth anytime soon if at all.

MAYBE.......when John passes..........MAYBE

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#255 Nov 15, 2013
Correct!
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
I will assume that is a rhetorical question LOL

Since: May 11

AOL

#256 Nov 18, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
Itís a ruse unless Beuf is psychic, LOL
<quoted text>
Hi Doc:D
I'm reading and laughing because what stands out to me is this; Beuf and the Rams are making the claim the police or media somehow got into the box and "helped themselve's" like they were the enemy. IOW, the police and the R's should have been on the same side and the R's are making claims that expose them as the ones that DON'T want the case solved and justice found for JB. Clearly there's something to hide if they needed to keep the records from the police, and making the claim the police did something underhanded gives them away as being the underhanded ones. The R's made it a cat and mouse game and the people seeking justice were the bad guys! Why not just hand over the records if there's nothing wrong with 30 some visits in a year and a half's time?
You're absolutely right, another Ramsey ruse.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#257 Nov 19, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Doc:D
I'm reading and laughing because what stands out to me is this; Beuf and the Rams are making the claim the police or media somehow got into the box and "helped themselve's" like they were the enemy. IOW, the police and the R's should have been on the same side and the R's are making claims that expose them as the ones that DON'T want the case solved and justice found for JB. Clearly there's something to hide if they needed to keep the records from the police, and making the claim the police did something underhanded gives them away as being the underhanded ones. The R's made it a cat and mouse game and the people seeking justice were the bad guys! Why not just hand over the records if there's nothing wrong with 30 some visits in a year and a half's time?
You're absolutely right, another Ramsey ruse.
JBR's medical records should not only have been VOLUNTARILY handed over to the authorities, but certainly should never have been an issue of dispute. The medical records of a six year old child, with nothing to hide should show that she was a normal child with pretty much the same notations as other six year olds.

The fact that the records had become some sort of holy grail of secrecy leads anyone to believe there has to be a reason. The privacy laws take a back seat to solving a murder, especially when there shouldn't be anything quite so private in a six year old's medical records

Every step the Ramseys and their supporters took and still take to this day just reeks of cover up and protection with every reason to suspect them all

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#258 Nov 19, 2013
Hey RT, I understand the laughter. As with most of the IDI story-telling, they donít know when to quit spinning a yarn, and end up making the wrong point, as in this case.

They certainly didnít pick their battles very well, did they? Anything to be seen as a victim Ė it is just so ludicrous listening to them because they end up point a finger right back at themselves.
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Doc:D
I'm reading and laughing because what stands out to me is this; Beuf and the Rams are making the claim the police or media somehow got into the box and "helped themselve's" like they were the enemy. IOW, the police and the R's should have been on the same side and the R's are making claims that expose them as the ones that DON'T want the case solved and justice found for JB. Clearly there's something to hide if they needed to keep the records from the police, and making the claim the police did something underhanded gives them away as being the underhanded ones. The R's made it a cat and mouse game and the people seeking justice were the bad guys! Why not just hand over the records if there's nothing wrong with 30 some visits in a year and a half's time?
You're absolutely right, another Ramsey ruse.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#259 Nov 19, 2013
Lynette 22 wrote:
<quoted text>Or perhaps he took a few lessons from his "uncle" Fleet?:)
Lol. ;o)

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#260 Nov 19, 2013
I'm so glad you mentioned the medical records, Cap! You're right, the Ramseys VOLUNTARILY gave JB's medical records to LE in the first few weeks of 1997.

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#261 Nov 20, 2013
What a statement of truth! Too bad the Ramseys perpetuated the (coverup?)(lie?)(misdirection? )(fable?)(red herring?) about the safety deposit box break-in, LOL! As if it were even possible - just another IDI-LIE.
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
JBR's medical records should not only have been VOLUNTARILY handed over to the authorities, but certainly should never have been an issue of dispute.
Every step the Ramseys and their supporters took and still take to this day just reeks of cover up and protection with every reason to suspect them all

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#262 Nov 20, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
Hey RT, I understand the laughter. As with most of the IDI story-telling, they donít know when to quit spinning a yarn, and end up making the wrong point, as in this case.
They certainly didnít pick their battles very well, did they? Anything to be seen as a victim Ė it is just so ludicrous listening to them because they end up point a finger right back at themselves.
<quoted text>
The IDI storytelling, one must remember, comes directly from the Ramseys and their handlers. Everything the Ramseys and their supporters have ever done has pointed the finger right back inward and no amount of yarns can change the truth.

Those who still carry that torch just look more ludicrous with each passing year at this point.

The handlers of the Ramseys and the Ramseys themselves have been caught in so many deceptions that I find the people who support them more baffling than the case LOL. I speak only of those who aren't profiting (that gives them a reason) and find it fascinating that so many continue to polish the Ramsey halo

They have no more battles to pick; they are pretty slim pickins and whatever is held onto as exculpatory evidence is barely on a thread as it is

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#263 Nov 24, 2013
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>

The handlers of the Ramseys and the Ramseys themselves have been caught in so many deceptions that I find the people who support them more baffling than the case LOL. I speak only of those who aren't profiting (that gives them a reason) and find it fascinating that so many continue to polish the Ramsey halo
And this is the crux of the misdirection, and the constant excuse-making towards the Ramseys, not to mention the throwing out of names of people saying they haven't been "investigated thoroughly enough". That ship sailed a long long time ago.

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