The Ligatures
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BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#1 Oct 29, 2013
The ligatures were not stage props they were functional, they were used to pose the body. The reason there is 17" of cord from the loop around the neck to the handle is the handle had to clear the head as it was brought up behind the head and placed into a holder or one end of the stick was placed into a hole with the other end protruding out. This raised the torso to a vertical position, either seated, kneeling or on the feet. I don't think there was a free hanging suspension. The reason there was 15" of cord between the loops on the wrists is that cord was brought up over the head and placed over whatever held the handle or over the protruding end of the stick. This raised the arms to an upright postition, the same position they were found in in rigor. The 15" of cord between the wrist loops would not have restricted movement of the arms much at all and could not have fooled investigators as being a binding. The ligatures were not constructed to decieve police. They were functional as posing devices. This is a classic posing of a body after death for reasons known only to the perpetrator. The raising of arms has well known symbolism, surrender, praise, beseeching and others. Whatever it meant to Patsy can only guessed, mine is it had something to do with Victory!

Since: May 11

AOL

#2 Oct 29, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
The ligatures were not stage props they were functional, they were used to pose the body. The reason there is 17" of cord from the loop around the neck to the handle is the handle had to clear the head as it was brought up behind the head and placed into a holder or one end of the stick was placed into a hole with the other end protruding out. This raised the torso to a vertical position, either seated, kneeling or on the feet. I don't think there was a free hanging suspension. The reason there was 15" of cord between the loops on the wrists is that cord was brought up over the head and placed over whatever held the handle or over the protruding end of the stick. This raised the arms to an upright postition, the same position they were found in in rigor. The 15" of cord between the wrist loops would not have restricted movement of the arms much at all and could not have fooled investigators as being a binding. The ligatures were not constructed to decieve police. They were functional as posing devices. This is a classic posing of a body after death for reasons known only to the perpetrator. The raising of arms has well known symbolism, surrender, praise, beseeching and others. Whatever it meant to Patsy can only guessed, mine is it had something to do with Victory!
If any of that were true, Patsy was psychotic, yes? And isn't it true that these 'classic' poses are left out in the open for all to see? Or can you name one classic crime such as this where the psychotic killer went to all that trouble only to undo it and molest the victim instead? And while you're googling that, find out how many of those classic psycopathic killers conceal their handy work and sob the rest of the day.
Face it, sometimes a rope is just a prop..especially when it's tied neatly OVER the cuffs and there are no phyical marks on the victim's wrists.
Go back to pineapple, it's funnier.

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#3 Oct 29, 2013
You have a personal investment in an unsupportable theory of this case. Your emotional reaction to having your biased ideas undermined is a threat to you personally.

Since: May 11

AOL

#4 Oct 29, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
You have a personal investment in an unsupportable theory of this case. Your emotional reaction to having your biased ideas undermined is a threat to you personally.
I listen to those that were there, and what they had to say shows me JR was running quite a show..not in a take charge way a father of a kidnapped child would, but in the sneaky, devious now you see me now you don't, way.
Calling his pilot only 30 minutes after retrieving the body, showed anyone with a brain in their head the guy was fleeing the scene, not the least bit interested in finding out wth happened!

I have told you too many times to count BM, I don't give a damn about your opinion of me. We're oil and water,.. I like reality and you prefer fiction. I don't need characters in books to help me understand real human behavior nor the motivation behind it. A man that's molesting his child does NOT want to get caught and he will do and pay anything to keep that from happening..even if he has to strangle the child in lieu of calling 911. It's that simple.
The Truth Hurts

Detroit, MI

#5 Oct 29, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
The ligatures were not stage props they were functional, they were used to pose the body. The reason there is 17" of cord from the loop around the neck to the handle is the handle had to clear the head as it was brought up behind the head and placed into a holder or one end of the stick was placed into a hole with the other end protruding out. This raised the torso to a vertical position, either seated, kneeling or on the feet. I don't think there was a free hanging suspension. The reason there was 15" of cord between the loops on the wrists is that cord was brought up over the head and placed over whatever held the handle or over the protruding end of the stick. This raised the arms to an upright postition, the same position they were found in in rigor. The 15" of cord between the wrist loops would not have restricted movement of the arms much at all and could not have fooled investigators as being a binding. The ligatures were not constructed to decieve police. They were functional as posing devices. This is a classic posing of a body after death for reasons known only to the perpetrator. The raising of arms has well known symbolism, surrender, praise, beseeching and others. Whatever it meant to Patsy can only guessed, mine is it had something to do with Victory!
OR...there was a need for ALL of the cord to be used in the STAGING so that no more would be found in the home that could tie the Ramseys to the crime.

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#6 Oct 29, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
The ligatures were not stage props they were functional, they were used to pose the body. The reason there is 17" of cord from the loop around the neck to the handle is the handle had to clear the head as it was brought up behind the head and placed into a holder or one end of the stick was placed into a hole with the other end protruding out. This raised the torso to a vertical position, either seated, kneeling or on the feet. I don't think there was a free hanging suspension. The reason there was 15" of cord between the loops on the wrists is that cord was brought up over the head and placed over whatever held the handle or over the protruding end of the stick. This raised the arms to an upright postition, the same position they were found in in rigor. The 15" of cord between the wrist loops would not have restricted movement of the arms much at all and could not have fooled investigators as being a binding. The ligatures were not constructed to decieve police. They were functional as posing devices. This is a classic posing of a body after death for reasons known only to the perpetrator. The raising of arms has well known symbolism, surrender, praise, beseeching and others. Whatever it meant to Patsy can only guessed, mine is it had something to do with Victory!
Hence the broken stick? Where do you think she was posed?

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#7 Oct 29, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
<quoted text>
I like reality and you prefer fiction.

A man that's molesting his child
Please post the evidence that John molested JonBenet. It is you that prefers fiction.

I prefer the reality that the arms were found up raised to the position the use of the ligatures as I described would produce.

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#8 Oct 29, 2013
Mama2JML wrote:
<quoted text>
Hence the broken stick? Where do you think she was posed?
That is one explanation for the broken stick, the hard physical facts support the idea, possibly.

Logistics would say the posing was in the basement. It seems to me there would be more things there to put the handle in.

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#9 Oct 29, 2013
The Truth Hurts Me wrote:
<quoted text>
OR...there was a need for ALL of the cord to be used in the STAGING so that no more would be found in the home that could tie the Ramseys to the crime.
The likelyhood of just that much cord happening to around is remote. That suggestion is simplistic and really, absurd.
Nancy

Grayslake, IL

#10 Oct 29, 2013
Who wiould be strong enough to break the brash?

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#11 Oct 29, 2013
ugly is as ugly envies
Just Wondering

Sophia, WV

#12 Oct 29, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
<quoted text>
The likelyhood of just that much cord happening to around is remote. That suggestion is simplistic and really, absurd.
Has anyone considered that the Ramseys had just brought out all of their Christmas decorations and trees? Many people will use rope to tie boxes of decorations and trees in order to store them from one year to the next. Could the ropes found in the paper bag in John Andrew's room and the rope used for the ligature not have been the ropes the Ramseys had used just for those purposes?

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#13 Oct 29, 2013
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Could the ropes found in the paper bag in John Andrew's room and the rope used for the ligature not have been the ropes the Ramseys had used just for those purposes?
No.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#14 Oct 29, 2013
No furrows, no dice. Those kids in west Memphis had furrows that looked like JBR's neck on their wrists and ankles and they were already close to death or dead already when applied. The ligatures applied to JBR wouldn't have restrained a baby. Why the deviation from the brutal ligature around the neck and the ever so gentle wrist ligatures? All for show Brotha. If anything the wrist ligatures should have been just as if not more pronounced than those of the neck. CSI 101.
BrotherMoon wrote:
The ligatures were not stage props they were functional, they were used to pose the body. The reason there is 17" of cord from the loop around the neck to the handle is the handle had to clear the head as it was brought up behind the head and placed into a holder or one end of the stick was placed into a hole with the other end protruding out. This raised the torso to a vertical position, either seated, kneeling or on the feet. I don't think there was a free hanging suspension. The reason there was 15" of cord between the loops on the wrists is that cord was brought up over the head and placed over whatever held the handle or over the protruding end of the stick. This raised the arms to an upright postition, the same position they were found in in rigor. The 15" of cord between the wrist loops would not have restricted movement of the arms much at all and could not have fooled investigators as being a binding. The ligatures were not constructed to decieve police. They were functional as posing devices. This is a classic posing of a body after death for reasons known only to the perpetrator. The raising of arms has well known symbolism, surrender, praise, beseeching and others. Whatever it meant to Patsy can only guessed, mine is it had something to do with Victory!

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#15 Oct 29, 2013
Stupid101 wrote:
No furrows, no dice. Those kids in west Memphis had furrows that looked like JBR's neck on their wrists and ankles and they were already close to death or dead already when applied. The ligatures applied to JBR wouldn't have restrained a baby. Why the deviation from the brutal ligature around the neck and the ever so gentle wrist ligatures? All for show Brotha. If anything the wrist ligatures should have been just as if not more pronounced than those of the neck. CSI 101. <quoted text>
The loops around the wrists had only to hold the arms up, less than 4 lbs each.

Thanks for the softball.

Since: Sep 11

Alberton, South Africa

#16 Oct 30, 2013
The Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
OR...there was a need for ALL of the cord to be used in the STAGING so that no more would be found in the home that could tie the Ramseys to the crime.
But if the staging was to convince the police that an intruder tied her up they would have needed to make it look convincing, so why leave such a long length of cord BETWEEN the wrists rather than just tie the wrists tightly together and leave the extra cord dangling? It doesn't make sense.

Since: Sep 11

Alberton, South Africa

#17 Oct 30, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
<quoted text>
The loops around the wrists had only to hold the arms up, less than 4 lbs each.
I agree with you about this, BrotherMoon.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#18 Oct 30, 2013
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Has anyone considered that the Ramseys had just brought out all of their Christmas decorations and trees? Many people will use rope to tie boxes of decorations and trees in order to store them from one year to the next. Could the ropes found in the paper bag in John Andrew's room and the rope used for the ligature not have been the ropes the Ramseys had used just for those purposes?
That is a very good point about the rope being decorative rope for gifts, and creative wrapping. Whatever its intention initially, the rope was not brought in by any stranger/intruder and it most surely belonged to the Ramseys, as did the tape, etc. and was also IF there was more rope, discreetly removed from the house

The Ramsey house was so chock full of "stuff" that all the materials questioned is ridiculous. How could anyone know, other than the Ramseys not recognizing anything they saw no matter what they were shown, what was there and what was not there before?

They can't

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#20 Oct 30, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
<quoted text>That is one explanation for the broken stick, the hard physical facts support the idea, possibly.

Logistics would say the posing was in the basement. It seems to me there would be more things there to put the handle in.
...less chance of being "caught" too. Which room in the basement?

BrotherMoon

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#21 Oct 30, 2013
Which room in the basement?

Dunno.

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