Peter Boyles on JonBenet Ramsey grand...
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Since: May 11

AOL

#81 Feb 7, 2013
Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
He might simply fear that she would say that he abused JonBenet and killed her. He wouldn't even have to be guilty of it. People are reluctant to consider women capable of these kinds of crimes. Witness the Casey Anthony verdict.
Your point about handing his son over to her is a good one, but you only get one of these.
are you saying you think Patsy was molesting her?

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#82 Feb 7, 2013
In my previous post, I meant that Patsy would only get one murder. If she re-offended, that would be it for her. She wouldn't want that.

Learnin, feel free to make as many good points as you like!

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#83 Feb 7, 2013
realTopaz wrote:
are you saying you think Patsy was molesting her?
Don't know. Wasnt' there.

It's rare for a mother to molest, but it happens. Thomas speculated that Patsy was in the habit of wiping JonBenet violently as a punishment.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#84 Feb 7, 2013
Boy, I'm making typos all over the place.

Note to self: no more coffee.

Since: May 11

AOL

#86 Feb 7, 2013
Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't know. Wasnt' there.
It's rare for a mother to molest, but it happens. Thomas speculated that Patsy was in the habit of wiping JonBenet violently as a punishment.
If you weren't there, then where do you get the idea JR even knew of the abuse? You said he might have feared Patsy saying he abused JBR, but how did he know she'd been abused if patsy was wiping her roughly IN PRIVATE? JBR's injuries were NOT said to have been caused by rough wiping, so ST's speculation IMO is lame.
ST zeroed in on Patsy because of his biases. He found her artificial and overly dramatic, and because JR played it so cool, felt sorry for the man to be married to such a 'wingnut'. He layed out every reason in the world to believe JRDI while trying to make a case against Patsy. If you read his book, and paid attention to all of JR's actions and words, Patsy looks like the one keeping HIS secret of abuse.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#87 Feb 7, 2013
Uh-oh, I got sucked into talking to a troll. I won't make that mistake again.

Since: May 11

AOL

#88 Feb 7, 2013
Fr_Brown wrote:
Uh-oh, I got sucked into talking to a troll. I won't make that mistake again.
Are you calling me a troll? Seriously?
The Truth Hurts

Detroit, MI

#89 Feb 7, 2013
Blue Bottle wrote:
Patsy was the offender in all respects. The prior vaginal abuse is called latent autoeroticism by proxy, meaning Patsy's normal childhood sexual arousal phase of self exploration was repressed until late in life and then transfered to the object JonBenet. There are reports of frigidity in the marriage and resistance to the husband's sexual tastes. It is all too common for a marriage to occur with the woman not having sexual desires and submitting to a man out of a sense of duty.
In patsy's case this is all the more complex in that she was groomed to exhibit knowing sexuality in her pageants and add that she was well above average in looks. She attracted men to a cold fish. There are reports that she dated older boys and then married an older man which is analyzed as a father complex meaning she wanted attention, protection, provision, and social place without sex.
This stunted development is typical of a girl raised by a pathologically narcissistic mother which Nedra was.
John said he looked at Patsy and did not see anyone evil enough to do what was done to JonBenet. That done he set his sights on the intruder despite the evidence. He continued this path of DELUSION which was supported by the interfering DA and the protection of his lawyers. He continued his delusion in the world of subcultural charismatic Christianity.
At no time did he act to protect Patsy knowing what she did. He deluded himself to avoid realizing that he lived with a mentally ill woman that killed his daughter and accept the fact that he may have contributed to her condition. All of that while having experienced the death of Beth which tore away much of what he himself was in life. He could not suffer another "loss of self" by facing the truth.
So...after Patsy murdered Jonbenet, she was "cured?" Must have been because she never murdered anyone else.
You are delusional if you think John wasn't involved and/or didn't know.
Do you have a source for "John said he looked at Patsy and did not see anyone evil enough to do what was done to JonBenet."
The Truth Hurts

United States

#91 Feb 8, 2013
Blue Bottle wrote:
<quoted text>
Frustration plagues you, yes?
Actually, you plague me with frustration with your redundant posts and aversion to my questions.
Anti-K

Grande Prairie, Canada

#92 Feb 10, 2013
learnin wrote:
<quoted text>
Two hours, offered by LE's experts, is given as a conservative and safe estimate and establishes that JBR ate pineapple at home that night. The fact is, however, that food begins emptying the stomach within minutes, 20 minutes at the latest. The only food contained in JBR's Upper G.I. tract was fragments of pineapple which means she had eaten no other solid food for several hours prior to eating the pineapple. These fragments, of pineapple, were located in her prox. small intestine which would be approximately 6 foot long in JBR. In gastric emptying studies, a meal can be seen well into the small intestines, of an adult, within 30 minutes.
If JBR was not sick, it is certain she ate pineapple anywhere from 15 minuts to one hour before peristalis stopped. I believe the head wound resulted in shock, and with shock, peristalsis ended.
Thanks Learnin. I remember reading your posts on transitions times during my last venture here on topix a couple years ago. According to Kolar, and weíve seen this claim before, by others, BPDís experts gave a range of between two and five hours. This is quite different from what you claim but Iím not interested in disagreeing with you or disputing what you say about it. Iím just curious who the various rdi choose to believe: Kolar or you.

One thing that Iíve always found curious about this pineapple thing is that it seems that the amount of pineapple discovered was very small. Iíve been left with the perhaps incorrect perception that she ate perhaps as little as a single piece, a single cube. Am I worgn? Do we know? Any thoughts on this?

Also, you say that ďif jonbenet was not sick.Ē What if she was? How could this change things? To what extremes (two to five hours)?
Ö

AK

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#93 Feb 11, 2013
If JonBenet had been ill, we would have heard about that. It is nothing more than speculation to explain away the big "bugaboo"

Nobody has EVER stated that she was ill or was anything less than in good health on Christmas Day

The pineapple was ingested shortly before she died. That is a fact. Unless she was eating in her sleep, which has also been disputed by her brother who states she was awake, the pineapple was eaten before her death

That bugaboo will never go away
dolly

Elkhorn, WI

#94 Feb 11, 2013
JonBenet was said to have been less than well on 12/25 and spent much of the day in her room. It is within the realm of possibility JonBenet ate pineapple, grabbed it as a snack of leftovers on the breakfast table before going to the Whites. Patsy didnít clean up after the meal. Anything JonBenet ate late that day would be in the small intestine and nowhere else.

The stomach doesnít empty within 30 minutes, it only starts the process and there are many variables including what is already in the digestive tract, especially the ratio of protein and fat versus carbohydrates. If the stomach emptied within 30 minutes babies and children would be crying in hunger every hour on the hour. As it is they usually need a refill every 3-4 hours. Any mother who has cared for a sick child will vouch for the fact if the toss their cookies the mixture can contain food ingested well more than the 30 minutes prior. A single X-ray study done with an additive or Ďlubricantí such as barium will not give the complete analysis of how pineapple is digested. It only addresses that specific controlled incident on that specific individual.

During autopsy the small intestine is removed and cut in half. The contents of each half are squeezed out into a bowl for examination. This is where the proximal and distal designation originates. The pineapple could have been far closer to the distal portion and colon than reported.

There's a good possibility everything ingested at the Whites was vomited within minutes of suffering the head injury. This accounts for the stains on her face and the rinsing out of the red shirt. This only is only a viable explanation if she was dead within less than 30 minutes of getting home.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#95 Feb 11, 2013
There is no evidence of vomiting and that would have been picked up in the autopsy.

The pineapple was eaten after she got home, period.

"JonBenet was said to have...." Who said it?

She did not have any pineapple at the Whites by ALL accounts and the Whites didn't even serve pineapple. The pineapple that she ingested came from the Ramsey house; proven by lab tests.

There was no evidence of vomit at all.

Nobody can make a square peg fit into a round hole.

She did not eat pineapple at the Whites

The bugaboo continues
dolly

Elkhorn, WI

#96 Feb 11, 2013
Vomiting would have as much chance of being determined in an autopy as if the victim had farted before they died.
dolly

Elkhorn, WI

#97 Feb 11, 2013
If a body is found in a pool of vomit it's a good possibility but if the body has been moved or redressed there won't be telltale signs for a coroner or detective.

The body were manipulated and the crime scene was staged.
Heloise

Cheadle, UK

#98 Feb 11, 2013
Wouldn't there be an odour and the presence of certain acids in her mouth and oesophagus if vomiting had occurred close to death?

Anyway, it is amazing that we are having this conversation again. JBR had pineapple after returning home from the Whites. It is that simple. We know she survived, unconscious, for over an hour after the head injury from the paediatric neurologist quoted by Kolar. We know how long pineapple takes to digest. We know the garrote was no such thing.

I really don't know why these facts are ever controverted.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#99 Feb 11, 2013
dolly wrote:
Vomiting would have as much chance of being determined in an autopy as if the victim had farted before they died.
While that is cute, it isn't true

Vomit would have been evident in the autopsy. Residue would be in the trachea and possibly in the tract that goes up from the intestine and also starting FROM the intestine. It wasn't there

Because the vomit would have been caused, according to you, by the head blow, she would have no way of controlling the vomit and it would have been evident

“WAX ON”

Since: Jul 10

WAX OFF

#100 Feb 11, 2013
I disagree. If the coroner cannot test the stain on her face(which he did and it was said to be mucosa) then he isn't much of a coroner is he?

There was no evidence of vomit.
dolly wrote:
There's a good possibility everything ingested at the Whites was vomited within minutes of suffering the head injury. This accounts for the stains on her face and the rinsing out of the red shirt. This only is only a viable explanation if she was dead within less than 30 minutes of getting home.
dolly

Elkhorn, WI

#101 Feb 11, 2013
Mucosa is the surface layer of tissue lining the digestive tract, the mucous membrane. Mucous is a bodily fluid or substance that coats it. Mucous was found in her stomach and on her face, dribbling out her mouth with a stomach void of food.

Salvia is constantly moving - being created and regenerated - cleansing the digestive tract while we are alive. It stops when we die but Jonbenet didn't die immediatly.

It is possible she ate the pineapple before going to the Whites at 5PM. Was struck on the head at 9PM. And was finished off within a couple hours by the garrote. It's just possible. You can belive anything you want. It's just a possibility. One of many.

“May you all come home”

Since: Mar 07

safely Bless you all

#102 Feb 11, 2013
dolly wrote:
Mucosa is the surface layer of tissue lining the digestive tract, the mucous membrane. Mucous is a bodily fluid or substance that coats it. Mucous was found in her stomach and on her face, dribbling out her mouth with a stomach void of food.
Salvia is constantly moving - being created and regenerated - cleansing the digestive tract while we are alive. It stops when we die but Jonbenet didn't die immediatly.
It is possible she ate the pineapple before going to the Whites at 5PM. Was struck on the head at 9PM. And was finished off within a couple hours by the garrote. It's just possible. You can belive anything you want. It's just a possibility. One of many.
If she was hit on the head at 9PM, when she didn't return home until about 10, you are suggesting that she was killed on the way home.

You are right. Anyone can believe whatever they want

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