Jaclyn Dowaliby/JonBenet cases
Biz

New Port Richey, FL

#62 Apr 28, 2011
thewhitewitchone wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been a true crime buff for many years so yeah, I've read about REAL killers.
Smit's glory days were over by the time he got on the Ramsey case. He should have stayed retired. Some of the things he came up with were laughable.(The dust ruffle comes to mind.)
I guess neither Smit nor Gray are "all that" since neither one has even come close to solving the murder. Do you suppose it's because they weren't/aren't looking where they should be looking? ;)
Well if you read about BTK you can see that he never fit the profile. He was married with children, a church deacon, no record, a code enforcement officer. No one ever suspected him, yet he had this unbelievable sick and sadistic "other" side to him that his own wife and secretary never even noticed.
Bundy was charastmatic and likable. No one ever suspected him either.
These guys were able to kill again and again because they knew how to appear "normal" to everyone else. I think criminals have become more brazen over the years. They are willing to go into the homes while the family is home, they are willing to do daring things just for the thrill of it. The internet has perpetuated much of it. But hopefully it will be the internet to put an end to these sickos.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#63 Apr 28, 2011
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
Smit may have been part of the "Apple Dumpling Gang" but he had ethics, character, and experience. My personal thoughts are that the crime could be solved via the internet and that may be a disadvantage to older detectives on both sides. The case could really use some young techies. I think it will technology that catches up with the killer.
I didn't find the dust ruffle observation "funny" at all. I think it showed that there could have been a perp who hid under the bed.
I do think it is funny that Boulder PD didn't think anyone could climb throught that window and here is Smit, a very tall man, who climbs through it with no problem. Stun guns in 1996 were mostly only used by LE at the time so medical examiners were not used to seeing these types of marks on bodies. Smit showed that it could be a stun gun.
Patsy was packing a suitcase on that bed. Don't you think it's more likely that the dust ruffle was "disturbed" by her own foot? Why didn't Smit think of that? See what I mean? Laughable.
Smit was not a medical examiner and he only saw photos. Meyer saw the actual wounds and called them abrasions, not burns. It's his job to know these things. Smit was full of himself. Turns out he wasn't as good as he thought he was. He didn't solve the case.

"KANE: First of all, the thing I was going to say is if Mary Keenan has reached this conclusion, she clearly has not reviewed her own file because I donít want to get into a lot of specifics about this because of ethical reasons, but there are clearly in the police file answers to a lot of the things that the court said had never been established. I mean, I can give you-I donít know where this came from that these were sophisticated knots. I donít know that anybody had the opportunity to untie those knots who was an expert in knots, but the police department had somebody who fit that category and that was not the opinion of that person. These were very simple knots."

"The thing about the stun gun that everybody keeps coming back to. There was one person who was qualified who actually looked at that little girlís body on the autopsy table and that was Dr. Meyer, whoís a forensic pathologist. He looked at those very marks and said that they were abrasions. It is a quantum leap-you can take a stun gun and put it up against somebodyís body...

KANE:... and itís going to leave a burn. It does leave an abrasion. So all these other opinions that have come out that said that this was a stun gun, there is absolutely no way they would ever get into evidence because there is no evidence that these were burns.

ABRAMS:... there were other experts like Mr. Doberson and others and Lou Smit who have said they absolutely believe that there was a stun gun used.

KANE: But theyíre basing that based on photographs of marks on her body. When the uncontradicted evidence of Dr. Meyer is that these were not burns."

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#64 Apr 28, 2011
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
Well if you read about BTK you can see that he never fit the profile. He was married with children, a church deacon, no record, a code enforcement officer. No one ever suspected him, yet he had this unbelievable sick and sadistic "other" side to him that his own wife and secretary never even noticed.
Bundy was charastmatic and likable. No one ever suspected him either.
These guys were able to kill again and again because they knew how to appear "normal" to everyone else. I think criminals have become more brazen over the years. They are willing to go into the homes while the family is home, they are willing to do daring things just for the thrill of it. The internet has perpetuated much of it. But hopefully it will be the internet to put an end to these sickos.
Read what you just wrote and explain to me again how the Ramseys couldn't possibly have anything to do with the death of their daughter.
Biz

New Port Richey, FL

#65 Apr 28, 2011
thewhitewitchone wrote:
<quoted text>
Read what you just wrote and explain to me again how the Ramseys couldn't possibly have anything to do with the death of their daughter.
I read it and I can't understand why you think they had something to do with her death to be quite honest!
First of all those knots were rather complicated. I have researched them and the closest I came to an explanation was a "reverse french bowline" Can you tie one? I sure as heck can't. They are often used in bondage.
The abrasions are evenly spaced and you can clearly see square endings on the skin in the autopsy photos, just like a stun gun IIRC. I think it was a stun gun or I have even found cattle prods that could make a similar mark.(I looked into that after Nancy Krebs said her abusers used a cattle prod on her.)

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#67 Dec 28, 2011
The man most likely responsible for the Dowaliby murder is a man named Perry Hernandez. He lived 3 doors down from the Dowalibys. And is currently in the IDOC for a home invasion, rape, and kidnapping. Anyone interested can do an IDOC inmate search and you can get his info.
rebafreak93

Cocagne, Canada

#68 May 28, 2012
Ok so at the end of the movie for the D.case, it show's Rob Kenny confessing to the murder of Jaclyn but they said it still wasn't good enough to put him in jail. Well I really don't understand that part? And I mean if the police could go through all that trouble and even go to the extent of FAKING evidence to prove Cindy and David guilty, which they succeded to do when they were infact innocent...then why couldn't they go through the trouble again to prove that Rob's confession was legit and put him away for life! It's sad to know that the police were only focused and set on putting the parents in jail because they had insufficient evidence pointing elsewhere and only made sense to blame everything on them. And all this because they were in a hurry to solve the case for their own political reasons and not for the justice of little Jaclyn.
Ashglt

Columbia, SC

#69 Feb 2, 2013
candy wrote:
An interesting post:
03-10-2006, 12:47 PM
judy424purple
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1
My family lived across the street from the Dowaliby's and shortly after Jaclyn was murdered I worked at the local police department. Many believe that it was Jacylyn's uncle - but he was in jail at the time of her disappearence. The officers at the station believed that it was Cindy. Cindy and Dave were having a (supposedly a pot) party that night - it was believed that Jaclyn kept getting up. They believe that Cindy tied her to her bed and that Jaclyn accidently choked to death.
I saw Cindy at Jaclyn's wake and a few days later at the video store. She did not look like a grieving mother to me, she was laughing and joking. If my child had just been murdered you would have had to lock me away!
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php...
I also heard this exact same story! Pot party and Cindy did it. May God have mercy on her soul.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#70 Feb 3, 2013
I actually visited that crime scene last week. I still think it's near impossible to find for someone not familiar with the area. However I do find it mildly coincidental that a rope was found around her neck. No one leaves the murder weapon unless they wanted investigators to think what was left there was the actual murder weapon. Sound familiar? I'm changing my opinion on this one. Someone in that house killed her, probably accidentially.
Concerned mom

Ocean City, NJ

#71 Mar 9, 2013
I just want to say how very sad it is that there is a killer/ killers walking around out there that can hurt our children. With such advances in science and DNA, I can't fathom why they haven't been caught. Aside from mediocre police work. I highly doubt that it was the last time either of the perpetrators hurt a child. Had everyone done their jobs properly these lost angels would have justice.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#75 Sunday May 7
candy wrote:
Tale similar to JonBenet's posed to bar

Author draws parallels in case of slain girls where parents were 'wrongly' suspected

By Charlie Brennan

By Charlie Brennan
Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer
August 8, 1998

BOULDER -- A story was told Friday of two parents wrongly accused in their daughter's murder, two parents whose cries of innocence weren't heeded until one was wrongly convicted and their lives turned upside down.

David Protess, co-author of "Gone in the Night," spoke to the Boulder County branch of the Colorado Criminal Defense Bar about miscarriages of justice, most notably the 1988 Chicago-area murder of Jaclyn Dowaliby. He was there on the invitation of Boulder lawyer Michael Bynum, who represents John Ramsey's company, Access Graphics, and is a Ramsey family friend.

Protess's talk was timely in light of the unsolved JonBenet Ramsey homicide, in which John and Patsy Ramsey are suspects.

The audience included prosecutors from Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter's office, as well as two lawyers assisting the Ramseys with their own investigation of the Christmas night slaying.
No one else has ever been charged in the murder of Jaclyn Dowaliby....

"The Dowalibys were doubly wronged,'' Protess told the bar association gathering, "first by the killer, then by the authorities.''

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ram ...
All David Protess's work needs to be re-examined. It is now recognized that he and his team committed fraud in getting a guilty man released from death row and an innocent man, Alstory Simon, convicted of the guy's crime.

Watch "A Murder in the Park" available now on Netflix.
Ranger

Edison, NJ

#76 Sunday May 7
JimmyWells wrote:
I actually visited that crime scene last week. I still think it's near impossible to find for someone not familiar with the area. However I do find it mildly coincidental that a rope was found around her neck. No one leaves the murder weapon unless they wanted investigators to think what was left there was the actual murder weapon. Sound familiar? I'm changing my opinion on this one. Someone in that house killed her, probably accidentially.
Paging Jimmy. There's some topics for you to review.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#77 Sunday May 7
Fr_Brown wrote:
All David Protess's work needs to be re-examined. It is now recognized that he and his team committed fraud in getting a guilty man released from death row and an innocent man, Alstory Simon, convicted of the guy's crime.

Watch "A Murder in the Park" available now on Netflix.
Protess, Northwestern University, the private investigator Paul Ciolino and attorney Jack Rimland are being sued by Alstory Simon.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#78 Sunday May 7
Did I miss a development?
Ranger wrote:
<quoted text>

Paging Jimmy. There's some topics for you to review.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#79 Monday May 8
I'd be interested if Protess had an influence on the Ramsey team's set up of Helgoth as a suspect. We seem to have some of the same elements as in the Alstory Simon case: poor, helpless target, estranged wife. Were there promises of proceeds from book deals and movies?

In the Dowaliby case, we have alibi witnesses induced to change their stories--except for the inportant witness--to throw suspicion on a schizophrenic. Hard to get more helpless than that.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#80 Monday May 8
Fr_Brown wrote:
I'd be interested if Protess had an influence on the Ramsey team's set up of Helgoth as a suspect. We seem to have some of the same elements as in the Alstory Simon case: poor, helpless target, estranged wife. Were there promises of proceeds from book deals and movies?

In the Dowaliby case, we have alibi witnesses induced to change their stories--except for the inportant witness--to throw suspicion on a schizophrenic. Hard to get more helpless than that.
Helgoth seems to have become a suspect between the summers of 1998 and 2000. John Ramsey doesn't mention Helgoth in his June 1998 interview, but he's a topic of conversation in 2000. I notice that Protess came out to Boulder to give his talk in August of 1998.

I wouldn't be surprised if Protess gave the Ramsey investigators some pointers in muddying the waters.

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#81 Monday May 8
I've driven by the former Dowaliby house several times just because I was in the area for work. No way in hell someone went through that window.
Fr_Brown wrote:
I'd be interested if Protess had an influence on the Ramsey team's set up of Helgoth as a suspect. We seem to have some of the same elements as in the Alstory Simon case: poor, helpless target, estranged wife. Were there promises of proceeds from book deals and movies?

In the Dowaliby case, we have alibi witnesses induced to change their stories--except for the inportant witness--to throw suspicion on a schizophrenic. Hard to get more helpless than that.

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#82 Monday May 8
Fr_Brown wrote:
Helgoth seems to have become a suspect between the summers of 1998 and 2000. John Ramsey doesn't mention Helgoth in his June 1998 interview, but he's a topic of conversation in 2000. I notice that Protess came out to Boulder to give his talk in August of 1998.

I wouldn't be surprised if Protess gave the Ramsey investigators some pointers in muddying the waters.
Actually, I think the cops asked Patsy about Helgoth in '98. It's phonetically transcribed as "Hilga," but it's Helgoth because Lin Wood talks about his name coming up in that interview (along with many others).

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#83 Monday May 8
JimmyWells wrote:
I've driven by the former Dowaliby house several times just because I was in the area for work. No way in hell someone went through that window.
It was 14x28 according to one story I read. Pretty tight, but I don't see anyone claiming at the time that it was impossible. They did say the sill had undisturbed dust and there were cobwebs. No crime scene photos of that, though.
JimmyWells

Tinley Park, IL

#84 Monday May 8
It was exposed to the street and the neighbors to the west. The perp might has well have tried to jump through their front room window. The weather was warm and windows were open, someone would have heard. Besides that there was zero signs of a disturbance inside the house under that window. And besides that her bedroom door was adjacent to her parents. The floors were uncarpeted. Wood floors creak. I have doubts that a church mouse would have made that walk without waking anyone. There are too many impossibilities here. Find a connection between a suspect and the Islander Apartments and you have a nice lead. No one would know about those apartments unless they were familiar with the area as they are relatively hidden. There was plenty of wooded area around the Dowaliby house that would have made a more likely dump site. So why drive 5 miles east and dump her behind that complex? 50 feet from where she was found is a river which would also make for a more practical dump site. Whoever did it wanted to get in and out as quickly as possible, not dispose her in an area where she is less likely to be found. The perp backed up to the edge of the parking lot, removed her from the trunk and tossed her two feet into the brush, and took off. Hardly an organized killer.
Fr_Brown wrote:
<quoted text>

It was 14x28 according to one story I read. Pretty tight, but I don't see anyone claiming at the time that it was impossible. They did say the sill had undisturbed dust and there were cobwebs. No crime scene photos of that, though.
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#85 Tuesday May 9
Biz wrote:
When I saw the movie about the case looked to me like the family believed it was the uncle that was related to Cindy but I don't think they have any solid evidence to prove it. He was a real weirdo and he said something to Cindy that led her to believe he did it. It is obvious to me that the parents were completely innocent. It is so sad that David Dawaliby was put into prison for all that time.
Parents make mistakes regarding security. We can let our guard down at times. The grandmother accidently left the door open. I think there was also a window open.
In the Ramsey case we know the basement window was open and there may have been other windows open on the top floors. The butler pantry door was found to be open after John thought it was locked.
We also know that a ransom note was left for the Ramseys. Not the other family. A ransom note that showed much familiarity with the family. The pedophile/kidnapper/murderer decided to molest and kill JB inside the home, with the ransom note lying on the steps for anyone to see should they wake up and descend the stairs. And who would choose Christmas to attempt a break-in and kidnapping? Too much unexpected activities on the part of the victim's family and friends, as well as the perp's. If an IDI did commit this murder, we can say that he should be listed among the most daring, haphazard pedophilic kidnapper murderers of all time.

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