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Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#2 Mar 16, 2013
Kolar deserves a lot of credit for having the courage to present complicated facts. How they are interpreted will vary according to the cognitive ability of the reader.

You will never see brain swelling through the foramen magnum in an autopsy. The act of opening up the skull relieves the pressure that caused the displacement. An autopsy is as good as burr holes in that regard. It can be diagnosed before death with testing such as a CT scan but in this case it was assumed based on autopsy findings as Jonbenet never made it to the hospital for medical intervention. It was assumed rightly or wrongly but is really of no consequence.

The pineapple obviously did not pass through Jonbenet’s entire digestive tract or it would have been flushed which is where these repeat threads belong. It moved through the system and ended up where it was found, no more no less. It is your personal interpretation that ‘moved through the system’ means passed through her entire GI tract and was expelled as human excrement.

GROWABRAIN
kat

Riverhead, NY

#4 Mar 17, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
<quoted text>
Then why did Kolar present it as if it had been?
The answer is he wanted a certain timeline.
He made up his means to a predetermined end.
That is the same reason he turned proximal intestine into through the system.
He wanted evidence to back up the accident/cover-up theory so he made up the evidence.
He then went on to insinuate that Burke was a sexual deviant as a child to create evidence he was involved in the accident.
That is my interpretation from the discrepancies Kolar published. You don't have to like it.
what if i don't like your opinion, but my alter ego sandy stranger does like it...no there's a doozy
icedtea4me

Florissant, MO

#7 Mar 29, 2013
moonjack wrote:
The pineapple obviously did not pass through Jonbenet’s entire digestive tract or it would have been flushed which is where these repeat threads belong. It moved through the system and ended up where it was found, no more no less. It is your personal interpretation that ‘moved through the system’ means passed through her entire GI tract and was expelled as human excrement.
GROWABRAIN
Would you mind pointing out where BrotherMoon said "JonBenet expelled feces containing pineapple"?

And Kolar didn't state that the pineapple was found in the proximal area of her small intestine as was stated in the autopsy report because...?

Since: Jul 10

Crimson Tide Bulldozed

#8 Mar 29, 2013
Hey IT4M,
What you quoted DIDN'T say that it was expelled - just the opposite.

Moonjack said "It is your personal interpretation that ‘moved through the system’ means passed through her entire GI tract and was expelled as human excrement."
icedtea4me wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you mind pointing out where BrotherMoon said "JonBenet expelled feces containing pineapple"?
And Kolar didn't state that the pineapple was found in the proximal area of her small intestine as was stated in the autopsy report because...?
icedtea4me

Florissant, MO

#10 Mar 29, 2013
DrSeussMd wrote:
Hey IT4M,
What you quoted DIDN'T say that it was expelled - just the opposite.
Moonjack said "It is your personal interpretation that ‘moved through the system’ means passed through her entire GI tract and was expelled as human excrement."
<quoted text>
Oh, I see. So, "...and was expelled...", in your mind, equals "...and it wasn't expelled...".

Since: Jul 10

Crimson Tide Bulldozed

#11 Mar 30, 2013
No, you are not reading what was said correctly.

Moonjack was telling the poster s/he was answering that THAT POSTER WAS INTERPRETING IT THAT WAY (meaning that it was expelled). That wasn't moonjack's interpretation.

I was just trying to be helpful -
But whatever floats your boat!
icedtea4me wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I see. So, "...and was expelled...", in your mind, equals "...and it wasn't expelled...".
icedtea4me

Florissant, MO

#13 Mar 30, 2013
Why in the f_ck did Kolar state the pineapple passed through the system instead of just saying it was found in the proximal portion of the small intestine as was stated in the autopsy report?

Since: Jul 10

Crimson Tide Bulldozed

#14 Mar 30, 2013
Because he is not a medical examiner and doesn't use the same phraseology?

My understanding was he was saying it passed from point A to point B (where it was found). So using 'passed','traveled','moved' whatever, are all synonymous to indicate movement from her mouth/swallowing until it reached the point it was found during autopsy.
icedtea4me wrote:
Why in the f_ck did Kolar state the pineapple passed through the system instead of just saying it was found in the proximal portion of the small intestine as was stated in the autopsy report?

Since: Oct 08

Grande Prairie, Canada

#15 Mar 30, 2013
This is Kolar on the pineapple; p. 65
<begin>
The medical consultants considered the timing of the tracking of the pineapple that had moved through Jonbenet's digestive track. It was generally agreed that the timing of the ingestion of this fruit could have coincided with the time frame regarding her head injury. It was estimated that it would have taken between two to five hours for the pineapple to move through her system. It appeared to investigators that she had eaten the pineapple not long before receiving the blow to her head.
<end>

This is one of the more perplexing of Kolar’s descriptions. Two to five hours to pass through her system does indeed sound like two to five hours to pass through her system. The problem is that the pineapple didn’t pass through her system, so what is Kolar saying? If Kolar meant two to five hours to reach the point where it was found then why didn’t he write that?

Even harder to decipher is this:“the timing of the ingestion of this fruit could have coincided with the time frame regarding her head injury.” What the aitch-ee-double-el is that supposed to mean? Seriously, I don’t get this one at all. Any ideas, anyone?


AK
Steve Eller

United States

#20 Apr 1, 2013
Can Ann wrote:
<quoted text>
I from Canada, and I just don not understand what some posted post.
Not much of a case here left for you to solve. The Ramseys were responsible. Its basically all over for the IDI except for the overt SPAM.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#21 Apr 1, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
This is Kolar on the pineapple; p. 65
<begin>
The medical consultants considered the timing of the tracking of the pineapple that had moved through Jonbenet's digestive track. It was generally agreed that the timing of the ingestion of this fruit could have coincided with the time frame regarding her head injury. It was estimated that it would have taken between two to five hours for the pineapple to move through her system. It appeared to investigators that she had eaten the pineapple not long before receiving the blow to her head.
<end>
This is one of the more perplexing of Kolar’s descriptions. Two to five hours to pass through her system does indeed sound like two to five hours to pass through her system. The problem is that the pineapple didn’t pass through her system, so what is Kolar saying? If Kolar meant two to five hours to reach the point where it was found then why didn’t he write that?
Even harder to decipher is this:“the timing of the ingestion of this fruit could have coincided with the time frame regarding her head injury.” What the aitch-ee-double-el is that supposed to mean? Seriously, I don’t get this one at all. Any ideas, anyone?

AK
No wonder there are so many different interpretations handed out on Bible passages. Kolar's words, that you quoted, are, indeed, confusing. This doesn't mean he's trying to deceive, it simply means he didn't express himself well.

My interpretation is as follows: Kolar presents a timeline, offered by experts, as to how long it would take pineapple to pass from stomach into the large intestine. This would be 2 to 5 hours. He, then, states that, according to where it was found in the small intestine, experts agreed that she ate the pineapple not long before receiving the head wound.

This coincides, exactly, with what I've been saying for years. Pineapple could move through the entire upper gastrointestinal tract within 2 hours. If pineapple can get through the entire small intestine within 2 hours, how long would it take the pineapple to get to the first smart of the small intestine? As I've stated, and have confirmed, it would take anywhere from 15 minutes to one hour.

If Kolar believes BDI, then, how would it bolster his theory to lengthen out the time between head blow and strangulation? It doesn't. A timeline of 15 minutes, or two hours, does not hurt the BDI theory at all.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#23 Apr 1, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
I think it was poorly worded. It should read: It would take 2 to 5 hours to move all the way through the system, but it did not, it was found in the proximal intestine, a small percentage of the g.i. tract, and therefor a shorter period of time occured between eating the pineapple AND WHATEVER STOPPED THE BODY PROCESSES, that being a blow to the head or a strangulation.
He makes the mistake of assuming an intial, accidental head blow.
A short period of time between the snack and whatever stopped the body processes goes against the accident/cover-up theory assuming it would take some time for the panicked parents to assess the situation, scheme up the staging from crime books and movies and then carry the deed out.
It was also poorly worded to say blood began to fill the skull cavity when it never did fill it so it could not have begun to fill it. In fact the blood was localized near the fracture and was typical of oozing and not due to a normally pumping heart.
The passage about the brain sweling through the foramen magnum is not poorly worded as it comes directly from Rorke. But that was poorly handled as it is not clear if the comment was about JonBenet in particular or a general comment on brain injuries.
I agree with you about the poorly worded passages and how Kolar could have better stated the pineapple transit time.
Steve Eller

United States

#24 Apr 1, 2013
learnin wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with you about the poorly worded passages and how Kolar could have better stated the pineapple transit time.
Whether or not Kolar could have constructed that passage better still does nothing to alter the substance of his description of what the experts found, does not suggest indicate or proffer an attempt to deceive by the author and compromises nothing regarding his view of how JonBenet was murdered. This passage does however, provide fodder for a couple of losers to cling to in order to attempt to foment a credible attack on Kolar's integrity. It failed miserably before and as they keep raising the stakes it is failing laughably now. I would like to see some honest criticism of Kolar's theory and subsequent discussion, but so far it is a fishing expedition against Kolar because of how effectively and devastatingly he refuted so many IDI myths.

Since: Oct 08

Grande Prairie, Canada

#25 Apr 1, 2013
learnin wrote:
<quoted text>
No wonder there are so many different interpretations handed out on Bible passages. Kolar's words, that you quoted, are, indeed, confusing. This doesn't mean he's trying to deceive, it simply means he didn't express himself well.
My interpretation is as follows: Kolar presents a timeline, offered by experts, as to how long it would take pineapple to pass from stomach into the large intestine. This would be 2 to 5 hours. He, then, states that, according to where it was found in the small intestine, experts agreed that she ate the pineapple not long before receiving the head wound.
This coincides, exactly, with what I've been saying for years. Pineapple could move through the entire upper gastrointestinal tract within 2 hours. If pineapple can get through the entire small intestine within 2 hours, how long would it take the pineapple to get to the first smart of the small intestine? As I've stated, and have confirmed, it would take anywhere from 15 minutes to one hour.
If Kolar believes BDI, then, how would it bolster his theory to lengthen out the time between head blow and strangulation? It doesn't. A timeline of 15 minutes, or two hours, does not hurt the BDI theory at all.
Hey Learnin, haven’t seen you here in a while!
If I understand you correctly, you’re interpreting Kolar as saying 2 to 5 hours to go through the system, but “not long” for it to reach the point where it was found? You could be right, but if this is what he meant then why didn’t he just say so? Why even mention the two to five hours if all they represent is the amount of time for something to occur that didn’t even occur?

On another thread you wrote. <1> “If JBR was not sick, it is certain she ate pineapple anywhere from 15 minuts to one hour before peristalis stopped. I believe the head wound resulted in shock, and with shock, peristalsis ended.”

I replied to that post with a couple questions that you must have missed, so I’d like to ask them now. You wrote “if jbr was not sick.” What if she was? No, I’m not suggesting that, I am just curious – what if she was? How could that change things? Also, let’s say it does take only about 15 minutes for the pineapple to get to where it was found, how long could it remain there?

One thing that I’ve always found curious about this pineapple thing is that it seems that the amount of pineapple discovered was very small. I’ve been left with the perhaps incorrect perception that she ate perhaps as little as a single piece, a single cube. Am I wrong? Does anyone have thoughts on this?

<1> http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-rams...

AK

Since: Oct 08

Grande Prairie, Canada

#26 Apr 1, 2013
BrotherMoon wrote:
I think it was poorly worded. It should read: It would take 2 to 5 hours to move all the way through the system, but it did not, it was found in the proximal intestine, a small percentage of the g.i. tract, and therefor a shorter period of time occured between eating the pineapple AND WHATEVER STOPPED THE BODY PROCESSES, that being a blow to the head or a strangulation.
He makes the mistake of assuming an intial, accidental head blow.
A short period of time between the snack and whatever stopped the body processes goes against the accident/cover-up theory assuming it would take some time for the panicked parents to assess the situation, scheme up the staging from crime books and movies and then carry the deed out.
It was also poorly worded to say blood began to fill the skull cavity when it never did fill it so it could not have begun to fill it. In fact the blood was localized near the fracture and was typical of oozing and not due to a normally pumping heart.
The passage about the brain sweling through the foramen magnum is not poorly worded as it comes directly from Rorke. But that was poorly handled as it is not clear if the comment was about JonBenet in particular or a general comment on brain injuries.
There’s no doubt that it was poorly worded, but it may also have been poorly thought out. Why even mention the two to five hours if all they represent is the amount of time for something to occur that didn’t even occur?

Maybe we’re being too generous, maybe Kolar did mean two to five hours to reach the point where it was found.

AK

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#29 Apr 1, 2013
Steve Eller wrote:
<quoted text>
Whether or not Kolar could have constructed that passage better still does nothing to alter the substance of his description of what the experts found, does not suggest indicate or proffer an attempt to deceive by the author and compromises nothing regarding his view of how JonBenet was murdered. This passage does however, provide fodder for a couple of losers to cling to in order to attempt to foment a credible attack on Kolar's integrity. It failed miserably before and as they keep raising the stakes it is failing laughably now. I would like to see some honest criticism of Kolar's theory and subsequent discussion, but so far it is a fishing expedition against Kolar because of how effectively and devastatingly he refuted so many IDI myths.
Steve, I certainly do not think Kolar was trying to deceive. When you think about all the items he had to sift through,in that file, it would not be shocking to think he came to a wrong conclusion; was mistaken or simply did not make his point well.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#31 Apr 1, 2013
Anti-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Learnin, haven’t seen you here in a while!
If I understand you correctly, you’re interpreting Kolar as saying 2 to 5 hours to go through the system, but “not long” for it to reach the point where it was found? You could be right, but if this is what he meant then why didn’t he just say so? Why even mention the two to five hours if all they represent is the amount of time for something to occur that didn’t even occur?
On another thread you wrote. <1> “If JBR was not sick, it is certain she ate pineapple anywhere from 15 minuts to one hour before peristalis stopped. I believe the head wound resulted in shock, and with shock, peristalsis ended.”
I replied to that post with a couple questions that you must have missed, so I’d like to ask them now. You wrote “if jbr was not sick.” What if she was? No, I’m not suggesting that, I am just curious – what if she was? How could that change things? Also, let’s say it does take only about 15 minutes for the pineapple to get to where it was found, how long could it remain there?
One thing that I’ve always found curious about this pineapple thing is that it seems that the amount of pineapple discovered was very small. I’ve been left with the perhaps incorrect perception that she ate perhaps as little as a single piece, a single cube. Am I wrong? Does anyone have thoughts on this?

<1> http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonbenet-rams...
AK
Hi, AK. I just lost a long reply to your questions so I'll have to abbreviate this one.

After having read Kolar's words again, I think he believes that
JBR ate pineapple and, shortly thereafter, was struck on the head. She survived approx. two hours before the ligature was tightened.

I think he might be misinterpreting some of the expert opinions. It can take up to 5 hours for a full meal to, completely, exit the stomach. If this is the case, then, the first part of the meal exits the stomach within minutes and, after five hours, is completely through the small intestine.

JBR did not eat a full meal. She ate only one or two pineapple cubes. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT, FROM THE AUTOPSY, WE CAN SAFELY BELIEVE THAT SHE ONLY HAD A CUBE OR TWO OF PINEAPPLE. Since she only ate a few pieces of pineapple, it did not take two hours (definitely not five) for those fragments to be where they were found in the proximal small intestine.

You asked about the possibility of JBR being sick and what that would mean in regards to the pineapple transit time. If JBR had a stomach virus, for instance, this could slow or stop peristalsis muscular contraction of the intestinal walls) altogether. If this is the case, then, my timeline is useless. This is why I have always maintained it is of utmost importance to know whether any person saw JBR eat at the White's. We know there was no food in JBR's stomach or small intestine (other than the pineapple) at time of death. If JBR ate food at the White's, then, we know her digestive system was not compromised by illness.

You asked how long the pineapple could have stayed where it was found, if it, as I have stated, did arrive there within 15 minutes.
As long as peristalsis existed, then, the pineapple would not stay in one place for very long. Conceivably, if JBR was picked up and carried after death, gravity might cause some movement but it would soon encounter a loop or bend in the bowel. I believe peristalsis ended with the head trauma. After the head blow occurred, I believe shock ended the bowel peristalsis. I believe the pineapple remained right where it was, when located at autopsy, after the head blow occurred Keep in mind that 15 minutes, IMO, would be the earliest possible scenario. I believe this timeline coincides with what the autopsy tells us about the brain injury and hemorrhage.

I believe JBR ate a bite or two of pineapple and was struck on the head within 30 minutes. Strangulation followed shortly thereafter.
Hope this helps.

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#32 Apr 1, 2013
Hi, AK. I just lost a long reply to your questions so I'll have to abbreviate this one.

After having read Kolar's words again, I think he believes that
JBR ate pineapple and, shortly thereafter, was struck on the head. She survived approx. two hours before the ligature was tightened.

I think he might be misinterpreting some of the expert opinions. It can take up to 5 hours for a full meal to, completely, exit the stomach. If this is the case, then, the first part of the meal exits the stomach within minutes and, after five hours, is completely through the small intestine.

JBR did not eat a full meal. She ate only one or two pineapple cubes. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT, FROM THE AUTOPSY, WE CAN SAFELY BELIEVE THAT SHE ONLY HAD A CUBE OR TWO OF PINEAPPLE. Since she only ate a few pieces of pineapple, it did not take two hours (definitely not five) for those fragments to be where they were found in the proximal small intestine.

You asked about the possibility of JBR being sick and what that would mean in regards to the pineapple transit time. If JBR had a stomach virus, for instance, this could slow or stop peristalsis muscular contraction of the intestinal walls) altogether. If this is the case, then, my timeline is useless. This is why I have always maintained it is of utmost importance to know whether any person saw JBR eat at the White's. We know there was no food in JBR's stomach or small intestine (other than the pineapple) at time of death. If JBR ate food at the White's, then, we know her digestive system was not compromised by illness.

You asked how long the pineapple could have stayed where it was found, if it, as I have stated, did arrive there within 15 minutes.
As long as peristalsis existed, then, the pineapple would not stay in one place for very long. Conceivably, if JBR was picked up and carried after death, gravity might cause some movement but it would soon encounter a loop or bend in the bowel. I believe peristalsis ended with the head trauma. After the head blow occurred, I believe shock ended the bowel peristalsis. I believe the pineapple remained right where it was, when located at autopsy, after the head blow occurred Keep in mind that 15 minutes, IMO, would be the earliest possible scenario. I believe this timeline coincides with what the autopsy tells us about the brain injury and hemorrhage.

I believe JBR ate a bite or two of pineapple and was struck on the head within 30 minutes. Strangulation followed shortly thereafter.
Hope this helps.

“YES”

Since: Mar 07

TWICE

#33 Apr 2, 2013
NO matter what Kolar MEANT or relayed, we all know about the pineapple. It is possible that she only had a couple of pieces, but that is not what the issue is. We also know she ate it shortly before she died We know it is from the Ramsey house

The question is: Who gave it to her? She could not open the refrigerator by herself according to Patsy, she was "sound asleep" when she got home and was put to bed according to her family (all except for Burke who stated she was awake and walked in) Soooo, the question remains after all these years:

Who gave it to her?
deb

Chicago, IL

#35 Apr 2, 2013
learnin wrote:
Hi, AK. I just lost a long reply to your dumb questions so I'll have to abbreviate this one.
After having read Kolar's words again, I think he believes that
JBR ate pineapple and, shortly thereafter, was struck on the head. She survived approx. two hours before the ligature was tightened.
I think he might be misinterpreting some of the expert opinions. It can take up to 5 hours for a full meal to, completely, exit the stomach. If this is the case, then, the first part of the meal exits the stomach within minutes and, after five hours, is completely through the small intestine.
JBR did not eat a full meal. She ate only one or two pineapple cubes. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT, FROM THE AUTOPSY, WE CAN SAFELY BELIEVE THAT SHE ONLY HAD A CUBE OR TWO OF PINEAPPLE. Since she only ate a few pieces of pineapple, it did not take two hours (definitely not five) for those fragments to be where they were found in the proximal small intestine.
You asked about the possibility of JBR being well and what that would mean in regards to the pineapple transit time. If JBR had a stomach virus, for instance, this could slow or stop peristalsis muscular contraction of the intestinal walls) altogether. If this is the case, then, my timeline is useless. This is why I have always maintained it is of utmost importance to know whether any person saw JBR eat at the White's. We know there was no food in JBR's stomach or small intestine (other than the pineapple) at time of death. If JBR ate food at the White's, then, we know her digestive system was not compromised by illness.
You asked how long the pineapple could have stayed where it was found, if it, as I have stated, did arrive there within 15 minutes.
As long as peristalsis existed, then, the pineapple would not stay in one place for very long. Conceivably, if JBR was picked up and carried after death, gravity might cause some movement but it would soon encounter a loop or bend in the bowel. I believe peristalsis ended with the leg trauma. After the head blow occurred, I believe shock ended the bowel peristalsis. I believe the pineapple remained right where it was, when located at autopsy, after the head blow occurred Keep in mind that 15 minutes, IMO, would be the earliest possible scenario. I believe this timeline coincides with what the autopsy tells us about the brain injury and hemorrhage.
I believe JBR ate a bite or two of pineapple and was struck on the head within 30 minutes. Strangulation followed shortly thereafter.
Hope this helps.
Was it tested as pineapple?

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