About Touch DNA- Bode Technology
Faith

Paris, TN

#121 Jul 27, 2008
Talking about the footprints,I think I read somewhere that there was no snow on the walkway.Do ya think maybe that was what the neighbor heard(metal on concrete that night.)I believe they had help with the staging.

Where were all those friends footprints?
Henri McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#122 Jul 27, 2008
Faith wrote:
Talking about the footprints,I think I read somewhere that there was no snow on the walkway.Do ya think maybe that was what the neighbor heard(metal on concrete that night.)I believe they had help with the staging.
Where were all those friends footprints?
The matter of whether there was any snow on the walkways was discussed at the Steve Thomas deposition in 2001:

11 Q. How about Officer Reichenbach, how

12 do you pronounce his name?

13 A. Reichenbach.

14 Q. Do you ever recall hearing about

15 what he said when he met with Dr. Henry Lee

16 in terms of whether there was snow on the

17 sidewalk of the house when he arrived that

18 morning?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What did he say?

21 A. He said, and he also said this to

22 me, that although there was due to what I

23 think was an 11 degree temperature outside,

24 there was a fresh frost and maybe a light

25 dusting of snow on some of the lawn areas,

241

1 but on the sidewalks and walkways around the

2 house, as he put in his report, as I may

3 have put in one of my reports, as we

4 presented to the VIP conference, that you

5 could not tell whether or not somebody may

6 have walked on those walkways in question.

7 Q. Or the wood chips?

8 A. I don't recall specifically him

9 talking about the wood chips.

10 Q. Did you also get some information

11 from NOAA about whether or not there might

12 have been snow expected to be found on the

13 north and west sidewalks of the Ramsey home

14 on the morning of December 26th?

15 A. I think one detective may have

16 gotten that assignment.

17 Q. And that NOAA indicated they would

18 not have expected snow there; is that right?

19 A. I don't know the results of that

20 NOAA report.

21 Q. You would have had the ability to

22 look at them when you were there and

23 investigating the case, wouldn't you?

24 A. Yes, I don't -- as I said, I

25 don't recall seeing that NOAA report.

Since: Mar 07

Detroit, MI

#123 Jul 27, 2008
gringojoel wrote:
The list was off the top of my head. There are many other things I forgot. One is (I don't know if it's true, it has been questioned on another thread) that there were no fingerprints on the ransom note even though both John and Patsy say they handled it.
Also, there was supposedly evidence presented to the grand jury that Patsy had purchased both a thin rope like the garrote rope and duck tape of the type used. I don't know if this is true either however. The site I read it on is highly questionable, conspiracyplanet.com . Whoever wrote the CP case review has a number of things that are probably based on something real but then exaggerated or enhanced to build thier case of the Ramseys guilt.
Regarding this new 'touch' evidence, which 'clears' the Ramseys, I submit this question, where do you think someone who wanted to fold the pants in order to get them packaged in cellophane would touch the panties? Would it be the wasteband?
I wonder how strong the match of this 'touch' DNA to the dna mixed in the JB blood in the panties really was? I wonder if they found this 'touch' evidence in other areas of the long johns, as they indeed would if it is true they were handled by the 'intruder'.
It`s astounding how RDI`s talk about all this evidence when in fact it`s all made up B.S. For evidence RDI`s talk about Patsy`s side of the bed not looking slept in because hse didn`t cover herself. One would think that a woman going through the change might be hot. For evidence you talk of no footprints in the snow, when in fact at best there was a very small amount here and there if any. You mention no finger prints on the ransom note when in fact non solid objects such as paper would never have fingerprints on them, especially since Patsy had just washed up and John taken a shower. Fingerprints come from oil in the skin which is washed off and mostly never enough on paper to leave prints. You talk about Patsy having bought duct tape. The truth is that Patsy often bought see-through packaging tape to wrap mailed boxes and that at the store it was the same price as duct tape. They have a receipt when she bought packaging tape. RDI`s just have no facts on their side and have been proven wrong by the touch DNA being on the waist band of the long johns and INSIDE Jonbenet`s underpants co-mingled with her blood. That means that whoever touched her privates did it when she`d been stabbed with the paintbrush and that the touch DNA exactly matches. The RDI`s outright lie AND SAY THAT SALIVA dna IS THE SAME AS TOUCH dna AND THAT THE dna FROM INSIDE HER UNDERPANTS TOUCHED THE WAISTBAND.-PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.-The ship sank. Stick a fork in you-you`re done!!! Ramseys are innocent.

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#124 Jul 27, 2008
Good post Detroit. You do have some insight into this case. I will pay more attention to your posts.
I wasn't even aware Patsy's side of the bed hadn't been slept in, thank you.
I knew she was wearing the same clothes when the body was found as she was when she killed JB but I wasn't aware of that.
Did you know that JR testified that Patsy was already 'in bed' when he went upstairs. Patsy said that also. How does that fit in with your statements?
How do you keep up with all these murders. You are all over the internet and have 'inside' info in a lot of cases. Are you retired?

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#125 Jul 27, 2008
By the way Detroit. From what I am reading by googling 'fingerprints on paper' it does appear that fingerprints can be obtained from paper. IF it is true than no fingerprints were obtained from the ransom note I would propose that the note was placed on the stairs by someone wearing gloves and that the Ramseys (Patsy) appear never to really have handled the ransom note that morning. Think about that? How could they not have picked up that note?
So, were the Ramseys fingerprints found on that note or not?

Since: Mar 07

Detroit, MI

#126 Jul 27, 2008
gringojoel wrote:
Good post Detroit. You do have some insight into this case. I will pay more attention to your posts.
I wasn't even aware Patsy's side of the bed hadn't been slept in, thank you.
I knew she was wearing the same clothes when the body was found as she was when she killed JB but I wasn't aware of that.
Did you know that JR testified that Patsy was already 'in bed' when he went upstairs. Patsy said that also. How does that fit in with your statements?
How do you keep up with all these murders. You are all over the internet and have 'inside' info in a lot of cases. Are you retired?
Patsy put Jonbenet to bed. She didn`t see Jonbenet`s pajamas which I think were under the pillow, so she put the long johns on her. John and Burke put together a toy, then they went to bed to prepare for the early trip to Charlevoix.

I own a couple rental properties and work part time to buy more and pay bills.

As far as inside information, it`s based on hard laborious work of looking at victims names and locations and dates they went missing and it`s this, Gary wants to claim the title of Zodiac and go down in the history books as having the most kills by a serial killer.

Since: Mar 07

Detroit, MI

#127 Jul 27, 2008
gringojoel wrote:
By the way Detroit. From what I am reading by googling 'fingerprints on paper' it does appear that fingerprints can be obtained from paper. IF it is true than no fingerprints were obtained from the ransom note I would propose that the note was placed on the stairs by someone wearing gloves and that the Ramseys (Patsy) appear never to really have handled the ransom note that morning. Think about that? How could they not have picked up that note?
So, were the Ramseys fingerprints found on that note or not?
Every where that you go small pieces of your skin fall off. This accounts for much of the dust in your house and bloodhounds follow this trail of skin which is falling off you calling it a scent. When you touch something larger amounts of your DNA are deposited and if they know exactly where you touched they can scrape it and get enough DNA to test. I don`t think they could do that with the note since it was a much larger area than a waistband and I think they already burnt the Ransom note for some other test.

As for fingerprints, when you touch something solid like a bottle or your computer screen you leave the prints from your fingers and the sweatier your hands are the better the print will be. It`s almost impossible to get prints from paper because it`s not solid, being somewhat porous, and unless your hands are very sweaty there won`t be prints. John and Patsy had just washed and showered. How could they have left any prints? They obviously couldn`t have and none from anyone were found on the ransom note, not even the detectives who touched it.
Nelly

AOL

#128 Jul 27, 2008
Patricia Fox wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, I have missed more about this case than I have seen. I can't imagine the grandmother believing all her daughter's lies for a solid month before reporting it either. Didn't the tracking dogs pick up death scent at mother's and grandmother's house?
at first I thought suffocation by car heat..now, I'm thinking not so much..because
the grandmother's a liar too. Now she's scolding the media with "if you left a piece of pizza in your car for ...lemme see, 15..uh 19 days, come back and tell me what it smells like", but her first 911 call has HER saying it smells like a dead body "in the damn car".
I think the mom and her mom had a fight and mom threatened to take the granddaughter away forever..and did.
I think the grandmother blew it by calling cops because now she believes her daughter did what she promised to do, and granny wants to save her daughter if she can't save the grandbaby. They could have gotten away with murder, if the grandmom hadn't called her daughter's bluff.

Since: Jul 07

Location hidden

#129 Jul 27, 2008
Thank you again Detroit. That is informative. If the detectives prints weren't there either, that kind of eliminates that fact as evidence.
Henri McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#130 Jul 27, 2008
gringojoel wrote:
By the way Detroit. From what I am reading by googling 'fingerprints on paper' it does appear that fingerprints can be obtained from paper. IF it is true than no fingerprints were obtained from the ransom note I would propose that the note was placed on the stairs by someone wearing gloves and that the Ramseys (Patsy) appear never to really have handled the ransom note that morning. Think about that? How could they not have picked up that note?
So, were the Ramseys fingerprints found on that note or not?
That's not a new theory. It's been mentioned several times on JonBenet forums. The comment by gringojoel about the murderer wearing gloves makes sense. Lou Smit is on record as saying he believes the murderer could have been wearing gloves.

To my mind, it's patently obvious that both John and Patsy handled the ransom note that morning. It's not their fault that their fingerprints were never found on the ransom note.

I tried to research that fingerprints on the ransom note matter a few years ago, but without any great success. I did find out that if somebody touches a fingerprint it would ruin the fingerprint that was there before. That's what may have happened with the Ramsey case ransom note. The protection of the crime scene, or the protection of the ransom note, wasn't perfect.

Athena gave a link about that matter not so long ago, to a website, which I've now lost. Somebody on a website a few years ago was asking a fingerprint expert about the Ramsey case ransom note. His reply seemed to be along the lines that fingerprint experts are taught to hope to find fingerprints, but not to expect to find fingerprints.

The matter was discussed briefly at the Steve Thomas deposition in 2001:

10 Q. Was there any partial palm print

11 found on the ransom note?

12 A. Mr. Wood, I talk about in the

13 book the prints that were found on the tablet

14 and the note, but beyond that, I don't have

15 any real evidence beyond that. Early there

16 was believed to have been a partial or bladed

17 palm which I believed turned out to be

18 nothing.

19 Q. Do you know whether there was any

20 effort to take that what was believed to be

21 a partial palm and compare it to the palm

22 print found on the wine cellar door?

23 A. What I'm saying is I don't know

24 that what was initially believed to be a

25 partial print was even a print.

415

1 Q. It's not uncommon to handle a

2 piece of paper and not leave fingerprints, is

3 it, sir?

4 A. I don't know that.

5 Q. You don't want me to go there.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#131 Jul 28, 2008
Testing gains national attention after use in clearing JonBenet Ramsey's parents

http://www.rgj.com :80/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= /20080728/NEWS01/807280349/132 1
Right On The Money

New York, NY

#132 Jul 28, 2008
gringojoel wrote:
Good post Detroit. You do have some insight into this case. I will pay more attention to your posts.
I wasn't even aware Patsy's side of the bed hadn't been slept in, thank you.
I knew she was wearing the same clothes when the body was found as she was when she killed JB but I wasn't aware of that.
Did you know that JR testified that Patsy was already 'in bed' when he went upstairs. Patsy said that also. How does that fit in with your statements?
How do you keep up with all these murders. You are all over the internet and have 'inside' info in a lot of cases. Are you retired?
Patsy's side looks like it has not been slept in. It is not a fact that it was not slept in. She could have fallen asleep in it for a short while. We don't know.
Faith

Paris, TN

#133 Jul 28, 2008
Does anyone know when JR called his pilot to cancel the early morning flight?JMO but I don't think anyone slept that night. Burke might have slept for a little while after the fact.Maybe that was Sleepytime Tea.
Henri McPhee

Plymouth, UK

#134 Jul 28, 2008
Faith wrote:
Does anyone know when JR called his pilot to cancel the early morning flight?
John Ramsey taked about that matter to Lou Smit in the 1998 interview:

11 JOHN RAMSEY: This was probably early part

12 in the morning as I was trying to grasp what was

13 going on. Probably before, some time between six

14 and ten. Because we started to wait for the call.

15 We were ready for the call. I think he said he

16 would call at ten or after ten. And so we were

17 ready for that call.(INAUDIBLE) before that.

18 LOU SMIT: So you were anticipating the call from

19 the kidnapper? You made a series of calls that

20 morning. Can you remember it just kind of in

21 sequence how you did that?

22 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I called -- I wanted to get

23 hold of Mike Archuleta who was waiting for us at

24 the airport by that time. I think they got a

25 number which rings into the cell phones they carry

0147

1 with them: XXXXXXXX I think it is.

2 I might have called that number. I don't remember

3 if I got Mike or I got Rich, his partner. I got

4 one of them. It seems like I got Rich.

5 LOU SMIT: When was that call made?

6 JOHN RAMSEY: Well this would have been probably

7 maybe 6:30, 7:00 I guess. Because I think he was

8 waiting for us (INAUDIBLE). My older kids, at that

9 time, had gotten on their plane to go to

10 Minneapolis, so there was no way I could

11 (INAUDIBLE). So I wanted to enlist Mike's help to

12 get in touch with them.

13 He volunteered to go to Minneapolis and pick them

14 up. I didn't want him to do that. So I just asked

15 him to get a hold of them when they got to

16 Minneapolis. So he took care of that.
Faith

Paris, TN

#135 Jul 28, 2008
Henri McPhee wrote:
<quoted text>
John Ramsey taked about that matter to Lou Smit in the 1998 interview:
11 JOHN RAMSEY: This was probably early part
12 in the morning as I was trying to grasp what was
13 going on. Probably before, some time between six
14 and ten. Because we started to wait for the call.
15 We were ready for the call. I think he said he
16 would call at ten or after ten. And so we were
17 ready for that call.(INAUDIBLE) before that.
18 LOU SMIT: So you were anticipating the call from
19 the kidnapper? You made a series of calls that
20 morning. Can you remember it just kind of in
21 sequence how you did that?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I called -- I wanted to get
23 hold of Mike Archuleta who was waiting for us at
24 the airport by that time. I think they got a
25 number which rings into the cell phones they carry
0147
1 with them: XXXXXXXX I think it is.
2 I might have called that number. I don't remember
3 if I got Mike or I got Rich, his partner. I got
4 one of them. It seems like I got Rich.
5 LOU SMIT: When was that call made?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Well this would have been probably
7 maybe 6:30, 7:00 I guess. Because I think he was
8 waiting for us (INAUDIBLE). My older kids, at that
9 time, had gotten on their plane to go to
10 Minneapolis, so there was no way I could
11 (INAUDIBLE). So I wanted to enlist Mike's help to
12 get in touch with them.
13 He volunteered to go to Minneapolis and pick them
14 up. I didn't want him to do that. So I just asked
15 him to get a hold of them when they got to
16 Minneapolis. So he took care of that.
Thanks Henri, "maybe and Guess" doesn't get it with me.I would love to see all phone records of everyone that was involved on the 25th and 26th.When you are dealing with murder maybe's and guess's won't work (only exacts)

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#136 Jul 28, 2008
gringojoel wrote:
By the way Detroit. From what I am reading by googling 'fingerprints on paper' it does appear that fingerprints can be obtained from paper. IF it is true than no fingerprints were obtained from the ransom note I would propose that the note was placed on the stairs by someone wearing gloves and that the Ramseys (Patsy) appear never to really have handled the ransom note that morning. Think about that? How could they not have picked up that note?
So, were the Ramseys fingerprints found on that note or not?
Consider the bizarre way both Ramseys described reading the RN:
Patsy read it bent over the stair in the dim light without picking it up and John read it squatting down in his undies; not picking it up.
JR claimed that he handed the RN to the first arriving officer at the door. If that is so, how was John Fernie able to read it through the back door when he arrived AFTER the police?
I think the Ramseys took great care to NOT handle the RN. There's no way they could have know if prints could be lifted or not. I suspect they did not want theirs to be the ONLY prints on the RN. IMO
candy

East Lansing, MI

#137 Jul 28, 2008
Faith asked: Does anyone know when JR called his pilot to cancel the early morning flight?

That is a great question. I don't know.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#139 Oct 20, 2009
All about touch DNA, by Bode Technology.
Henri McPhee

Wrexham, UK

#140 Oct 21, 2009
candy wrote:
Faith asked: Does anyone know when JR called his pilot to cancel the early morning flight?
That is a great question. I don't know.
John Ramsey explained about that matter in his 1998 interview:

18 LOU SMIT: So you were anticipating the call from

19 the kidnapper? You made a series of calls that

20 morning. Can you remember it just kind of in

21 sequence how you did that?

22 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I called -- I wanted to get

23 hold of Mike Archuleta who was waiting for us at

24 the airport by that time. I think they got a

25 number which rings into the cell phones they carry

0147

1 with them:***-****, I think it is.

2 I might have called that number. I don't remember

3 if I got Mike or I got Rich, his partner. I got

4 one of them. It seems like I got Rich.

5 LOU SMIT: When was that call made?

6 JOHN RAMSEY: Well this would have been probably

7 maybe 6:30, 7:00 I guess. Because I think he was

8 waiting for us (INAUDIBLE). My older kids, at that

9 time, had gotten on their plane to go to

10 Minneapolis, so there was no way I could

11 (INAUDIBLE). So I wanted to enlist Mike's help to

12 get in touch with them.

13 He volunteered to go to Minneapolis and pick them

14 up. I didn't want him to do that. So I just asked

15 him to get a hold of them when they got to

16 Minneapolis. So he took care of that.
candy

East Lansing, MI

#141 Oct 21, 2009
Thank you so much for this information Henri! Please read my additional information on the Chandra Levy DNA mistakes

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