The Oakland County Child Killer
Lilly

Denver, CO

#19357 Oct 2, 2013
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Les,
I have spelled out for you that in all 50 States there is no penalty for knowing that answer as a non-sworn civilian, or even writing a book about it under the first amendment and in a free market economy. You don't have to get immunity for ANYTHING if you left that part out of your story, and otherwise solved the case. You said you could do so "EASILY". This all leads to the fork in the road
Patrick,

He gets it. Even this imbecile understands he does not need immunity.

He wants to use the immunity card for several reasons. One is that it keeps him from having to actually tell what we now all know, he doesn't know.

The other reason and to this sociopath more importantly is that by continuing to play the "I demand immunity" drama, he gets to come off as the dangerous man that he wishes he was instead of the lying loser that he is.

He hints at the one thing on which he will not get immunity - murder. He wants people to believe he has killed. I mean he has posted it hundreds of times. But in connection to these cases he wants to be seen as a mysterious man with "answers" but that will bring him danger.

Get it? He is playing everyone. He never has to put up or shut up as long people buy into this farce.
Lilly

Denver, CO

#19358 Oct 2, 2013
Les wrote:
Helen, you brag about all the people you contact about me. You asked the forum to join in calling as many agencies as possible to stop me. You have posted things like "I am going to contact your family and see what they think". You brag about getting other forums shut down that I have posted on. Now you want to post that you won't waste your time on me. It's all here Helen. I don't need to lie about it you brag about it. You could not wait to contact Jackie when I posted how I considered killing her.
Anyone in their right mind would turn this animal and all his bragging posts about killing raping using young women scaring their kids threatening to kill and on and on into every police agency one could find!

What an a$$hole to think that is somehow a "political agenda driven betrayal." He belongs behind bars. Or in a straight jacket or both. I for one appreciate any concerned citizen who acts on this kind of ADMITTED criminal behavior.

Please someone hand him a rope.

Lilly

Denver, CO

#19359 Oct 2, 2013
Les wrote:
<quoted text>
In high school out of 117 tested my girlfriend was the only match to my blood type.
LOL LOL LOL LOL OMG! He really did just say his girlfriend was...never mind. LOL LOL LOL LOL
Lilly

Denver, CO

#19360 Oct 2, 2013
Helen Dagner wrote:
<quoted text>I thought I would also make a statement -I have never ever contacted a family member of Les'-Why would I? He is so delusional that he in his mind things that I spend my time thinking about him-lol-- This is just another one of Les statements that he can not prove-it is just all spin in his head--and he thinks Lilly and I would make up a story about his deviant behavior with his children-because he knows that no one that he knows would ever write a letter like that-what a laugh-I get emails everyday about this guy-from people that know him-and your right Lilly they all use the word PIG-So Les-bring on these people who say I contacted them-Then I can call them liars-
Helen,
The simplest explanation is: Above and beyond every other kind of scum that is this animal, he is first and foremost a LIAR. HE IS A LIAR.
STC

Bloomfield Hills, MI

#19361 Oct 2, 2013
LILLY Please post it here !!!!!!
It will help discourage all the asian oligarchs and billionaire corporate types who keep banging down Les' trailer door in an effort to find the absolute cream of the engineering crop to fix their oil derricks and microprocessors . Without Les how in the heck will they turn those damned machines back on !!!!!!!!
STC

Bloomfield Hills, MI

#19362 Oct 2, 2013
:0 ;0
LIlly if you won' post it here ,and I hope that you do , but if you decide not to , if I give you my email will you forward the letter to me ?? please ?? pretty please ??
Les

Grand Rapids, MI

#19364 Oct 2, 2013
Lilly wrote:
<quoted text>
This IS NOT ME!! THIS PIG CONTINUES TO USE MY NAME. Lilly IN WARREN NOT DENVER.
OK he wants to know who wrote the letter? She wrote more than what I posted. He knows damned well who she is. She is not a liar. Olivia tells the truth about this pig. I just may post the rest of the letter in blog forum. In fact I will show this pig something about using someone's name. They'll all get to see what he is.
Lilly, do you know they have carriages with motors now days?
They have many wonderful things if you ever bring your life up to date. Everybody on the planet knows you didn't write that post but everyone on the planet knows you are living in the past. In today's world you don't conspire to destroy a man just because you don't like his personality or his sense of humor or because he knows who the OCCK is and that makes your life passion just a fictious book. Hold your chin up and take it like the adult I once thought you were. Your making Helen look like a Rhodes Scholar. If you had an ounce of respect for the victims families you would stop trying to destroy the last person that has a chance to help the families understand what happened to their children. I don't personally know any Olivia. Sounds like a dumb choice of names. Obviously you wanted to pick a name that does not refer to anyone I really know. Your credibility is already shot because it is very obvious my daughter did not become the super star she is by experiencing the nightmare childhood you are trying to falsely convince the public to believe. If you know anything about this century you must realize you can be sued for what you already have done. Don't think that hiding behind a screen name protects you. I already got some jail time because judges don't need to prove if you actually wrote a scandalous post or not. And the person that did it even confessed.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#19365 Oct 2, 2013
STC wrote:
LILLY Please post it here !!!!!!
It will help discourage all the asian oligarchs and billionaire corporate types who keep banging down Les' trailer door in an effort to find the absolute cream of the engineering crop to fix their oil derricks and microprocessors . Without Les how in the heck will they turn those damned machines back on !!!!!!!!
Second that!!

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#19366 Oct 2, 2013
STC wrote:
:0 ;0
LIlly if you won' post it here ,and I hope that you do , but if you decide not to , if I give you my email will you forward the letter to me ?? please ?? pretty please ??
Me too?? Please? Pleaase!!
Les

Grand Rapids, MI

#19367 Oct 2, 2013
Ok Truth Dude. You are proclaiming Jane Allen is not an OCCK victim. There are no legal or moral issues stopping us from solving that case. Solving that case may help solve the OCCK cases. You could have hero status in both cases.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#19369 Oct 2, 2013
NOT SO FAST, LES.
SOME PAST POSTS
__________

Les | Sunday
"TruthDude wrote:
Thank God we are again now talking about the OCCK case again.
TRUTHDUDE"

Not so fast, first I want an apology for posting that my children allege that I sexually molested them. You made that up out of thin air. That makes you the dirt bag of dirt bags.
Reply Report this post
_________

TruthDude | Sunday
"Les wrote:
Not so fast, first I want an apology for posting that my children allege that I sexually molested them. You made that up out of thin air. That makes you the dirt bag of dirt bags."

Wrong Les,

Separate and apart from me, or any of my writings; others on this forum put forth the idea that your children told them they were molested. From those posted allegations You asked Me to fund a second polygraph test to clear that up. I offered to do so on the successful completion of the first test about lowest common denominators you claimed in the case, one of which was holding a polaroid pic of Tim King among others you said you had possession of temporarily. So then, this idea of your children being molested DID NOT have its origin with me, and rather you presented that issue to me as one you wanted to dispel. This issue had been on the board long before your ever requesting a polygraph about it. So get the history right in sequence here, and not your not entitled to an apology over it from me. Maybe from somebody, but not me in addressing it, and your request about it.
Reply Report this post
__________

Les | Sunday
"TruthDude wrote:
Wrong Les,
Separate and apart from me, or any of my writings; others on this forum put forth the idea that your children told them they were molested."

You ignorant m f*cker. Not even Lilly claimed my children made those allegations. Your statement is very telling of how you basterdized your case against Busch. The most glaring things have been blocked in your mind. Truth Dude, I hate your F*cking guts.
You f*cking child molester.
Reply Report this post
__________

TruthDude | Sunday
"Les wrote:
You ignorant m f*cker. Not even Lilly claimed my children made those allegations. Your statement is very telling of how you basterdized your case against Busch. The most glaring things have been blocked in your mind. Truth Dude, I hate your F*cking guts.
You f*cking child molester."

Calm Down Boy,

If you are really feeling as you say, and can't reference what I clearly spelled out for you, perhaps others remember what they posted in that regard and will back me up.....
[removed - unrelated]
Reply Report this post
__________

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#19371 Oct 2, 2013
~ CONTINUED ~
__________

Les | Sunday
"TruthDude wrote:
Calm Down Boy,
If you are really feeling as you say, and can't reference what I clearly spelled out for you, perhaps others remember what they posted in that regard and will back me up."

You don't need anyone to back you up if you reference the post that you claim my children claim I sexually molested them. OK You ignorant child molester?
Reply Report this post
__________

Ursula-| Sunday
"Les wrote:
Ursula Go back a few years before either of us posted. Read the posts. Nothing was different. Helen has no integrity now and she had none then.....
[removed - unrelated]"

....[removed - unrelated]
I'm just flabbergasted that one person inadvertently misreads what's been said here, repeats it in the course of normal dialogue and then gets slammed with the same baseless allegations you say you're so upset about.....
[removed - unrelated]
Reply Report this post
__________

TruthDude | Sunday
"Les wrote:
....[removed - unrelated]
I talked with Ray shortly before his death. I made a donation to his charity. He gave me something near and dear to him. He told me how managing a bunch of sneaky little criminals really took it's toll on his health. I found his choice of words surprising. I find it interesting to know that little Patrick was an element in the man's frustration."

Actually Les,
....[removed - unrelated]
By the way, your answer about how I got the idea you were alleged to have molested your kids came clearly in Ursula's answer where that theme was discussed. Your asking me to fund that second possible polygraph only reinforced it.
Reply Report this post
__________

Les | Monday
"TruthDude wrote:
By the way, your answer about how I got the idea you were alleged to have molested your kids came clearly in Ursula's answer where that theme was discussed. Your asking me to fund that second possible polygraph only reinforced it."

There is a huge difference between someone alleging that I molested my children and alleging that my children are alleging that I molested them. You misquoted yourself then you would not correct it. But it is there in black and white. I maintain you only see what you want in the written word and what others say.
....[removed - unrelated]
Reply Report this post
__________

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#19372 Oct 2, 2013
~ CONTINUED ~
__________

TruthDude | Monday
"Les wrote:
I was waiting for someone to put this phenomena in technical terms. But I have seen this occur many times especially dealing with the OCCK....
[removed - lengthly]"

Les,
Thank You for sticking to the issue in this post. In regard to polygraphs; prior to the 1980's....
[removed lengthly]
Reply Report this post
__________

"Les | Yesterday
Truth Dude, Forgot to answer one of your questions. Yes, I supplied samples on request.

When are you going to acknowledge you misinterpeted and posted that my child alleged that I molested them? Or is this just another glaring example of your bursting ego?

Don't worry there are others on here that would not admit a mistake if a gun was put to her head."
Reply Report this post
__________

Les | Yesterday
"TruthDude wrote:
Both you and your brother turned out great !!! Just curious though, was that the same brother represented here a few pages back who had a sex offense and served time in jail or prison ?
TRUTHDUDE"

....[removed - unrelated]
By the way Truth Dude when are you going to admit that you falsely posted that my child accused me of molesting them or reference where you read that. Keep patting your self on the back for having so much integrity.
Reply Report this post
__________

"Les | 21 hrs ago
When are any of you going practice what you preach?
When are you people going to stop playing this childish pirranha game where you rush to tear the flesh off people's bones because you don't like them? When are you going to allow everyone an equal opportunity to present their case? Grow up people. I will keep fighting back but I know what you all want is chaos because that is what will keep the families and the media in doubt of the truth. I will get out of this maze. I promise."
Reply Report this post
__________

Ursula-| 11 hrs ago
"Les wrote:
I find it interesting that Truth Dude could carry Lilly's claim a step further that my children are claiming that I molested them and no one seems offended by the that except me."

I noticed that he misunderstood how the claim about your children came about right away and didn't feel offended in the least - because his misunderstanding was as obvious to me as your bad hair dye job. But you, rather than politely correct him and point him to a post yourself, got nasty and aggressive and chose instead challenge him.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#19373 Oct 2, 2013
~ CONTINUED ~
__________

"Les wrote:
While yes you sort of defended me against the Lilly's slander what I am being accused of is much more horrendous than a child playing bad doctor."

Yes, Les, while I did defend you on principle, I was actually defending a poster who (because he doesn't have time to read every word typed here) upset a hornets nest through no fault of his own....
[removed - unrelated]

"Les wrote:
Truth Dude either deliberately twisted Lilly's slander or he misunderstood. Either way he put it in black and white and he can't back up his statement. When I pointed this out to Truth Dude instead of referring to a post # he asks others to jump in and help slander me."

You need to go back and reread that. That is absolutely not what happened. Now this is where we all see how you can bastardize a situation to convenience yourself and further your own ends. You twist things simply because your mind is twisted and you see what you expect to see, which is not much.

Besides the foregoing, there is something else I want to point out. You seem to think that people on this forum should be striving to dialogue with you civilly, despite how we may feel about you or disagree with what you say. Not so. This isn't a schoolhouse or a soccer field. This is a voluntary social networking forum for adults who are entirely free to socialize or not socialize with anyone we please, even on this forum. None of us has to be nice to you, listen to you, be respectful of you or even address you. And guess what. As much as you like to think your answers to this case is a key reason for that, it just isn't so....[removed - unrelated].
Reply Report this post
__________

"Les | 9 hrs ago
Ursula, There is probably no chance in hell that Helen and Lilly didn't conspire on the slander letter simply because no body that knows me would write that letter. However even if someone did that is extremely irresponsible behavior to post that letter. Then Helen openly cheered Lilly for doing it.

As far as the misunderstanding about Truth Dude. When I brought it to his attention instead of going back and correcting his mistake he asked the other posters to back him up. Another words he knew he basterdized his statement and there was no post supporting his statement. If your going to make me call out that post I will.

Another thing I probably enjoyed the short lived Les boycott more than anyone. I much prefer the peace to caring if anyone will dailoge with me."
Reply Report this post
__________
Les

Grand Rapids, MI

#19374 Oct 2, 2013
I have had so many successes with manufacturing processes that I can't remember them all. A company called me to look at a new design. The issue was that they had a process that manufactured two parts at once. The problem came in that if you ran the parts the same direction it gave them a good forming condition but it caused the process to go over budget with extra material going into scrap. The company would make no profit. If they ran the parts opposite of each other they had a poor to impossible forming condition but the material usage was in budget. The guy handed me the print and I immediately said "run the good forming condition and tilt the parts on thirty degrees". When they did this it took the material usage to under the quoted price and gave them the excellent forming condition. For a few minutes of my time they saved millions of dollars. That's why the Chinese wanted me. My successes in my career were endless. I have a great reference list. I worked at a manufacturing company where my bonuses were sometimes greater than total of all the other employees. My intention is not to brag but for you to realize you guys are harrassing a highly successful proud man. All this bullsh*t is because I am stepping on toes. I have recieved emails from people I don't know saying they understand why I retaliate against the people trying to shut me down.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#19375 Oct 2, 2013
~ COMMENTS TO LES ON THE THREADS POSTED ABOVE ~

"Les | 9 hrs ago
Ursula,....
[removed - unrelated]
However even if someone did that is extremely irresponsible behavior to post that letter. Then Helen openly cheered Lilly for doing it."

YET IT IS OKAY FOR YOU TO POST THINGS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE THAT "ALLEGEDLY" COMES FROM HEARSAY AS OPPOSED TO YOUR OWN MIND?

"As far as the misunderstanding about Truth Dude. When I brought it to his attention instead of going back and correcting his mistake he asked the other posters to back him up. Another words he knew he basterdized his statement and there was no post supporting his statement. If your going to make me call out that post I will."

YOU DON'T HAVE TO - I DID:

"TruthDude wrote:
Wrong Les,
Separate and apart from me, or any of my writings; others on this forum put forth the idea that your children told them they were molested."
"TruthDude wrote:
Calm Down Boy,
If you are really feeling as you say, and can't reference what I clearly spelled out for you, perhaps others remember what they posted in that regard and will back me up."
"Ursula-| Sunday
I'm just flabbergasted that one person inadvertently misreads what's been said here, repeats it in the course of normal dialogue and then gets slammed with the same baseless allegations you say you're so upset about....."
"TruthDude wrote:
By the way, your answer about how I got the idea you were alleged to have molested your kids came clearly in Ursula's answer where that theme was discussed. Your asking me to fund that second possible polygraph only reinforced it."

THAT CONVERSATION LOOKS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD TO ME! WHY THEN, DID YOU MAKE THIS STATEMENT:

"Les wrote:
Truth Dude either deliberately twisted Lilly's slander or he misunderstood. Either way he put it in black and white and he can't back up his statement. When I pointed this out to Truth Dude instead of referring to a post # he asks others to jump in and help slander me."

WHERE LES? WHERE DID TRUTHDUDE ASK FOR HELP IN SLANDERING YOU? TALK ABOUT BASTARDIZING STATEMENTS!

"Another thing I probably enjoyed the short lived Les boycott more than anyone. I much prefer the peace to caring if anyone will dailoge with me."

WELL THEN, WHY DID YOU WRITE THIS;

"Les | 21 hrs ago
When are any of you going practice what you preach?
When are you people going to stop playing this childish pirranha game where you rush to tear the flesh off people's bones because you don't like them? When are you going to allow everyone an equal opportunity to present their case?....
[redacted]"

DO YOU SEE JUST HOW MUCH YOU PROJECT YOUR CRAP ONTO OTHER PEOPLE? DO YOU SEE JUST HOW MUCH YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF? DO YOU SEE JUST HOW FULL OF SHIT YOU ARE?
Les

Grand Rapids, MI

#19376 Oct 2, 2013
Helen Dagner wrote:
<quoted text>Right-You have even Less knowledge about Jane Allen's case than you do the Occk- cases-and that came right from the Horses mouth-!!!I think you should follow your lates lie-and go all over the world with the China guys--fill your plate up with there woman,like you would like us to believe that you can--well you can always go dig up Buster-lol-lol-lol-
Just pray that my story is a lie. Let's see will ten LOLs cover it?
I have an ace up my sleeve on this one.
TruthDude

United States

#19377 Oct 2, 2013
Les wrote:
Ok Truth Dude. You are proclaiming Jane Allen is not an OCCK victim. There are no legal or moral issues stopping us from solving that case. Solving that case may help solve the OCCK cases. You could have hero status in both cases.
Les,

Yet again you throw out the word and/or phrase hero status. I have told you no less than four or five times now that I have been a traditional friend only and done what my conscience compelled me to do in unique circumstances. Hero is an often overused word by the media, but you need only look as far as your average nineteen year old in uniform to find one these days.

In regard to Jane Allen, I had not lived in Michigan for a long while or heard that name associated with the OCCK case, and rather only you seem to have associated it into the case to my knowledge. I say do what you can for any of these cases NOW. Parents and siblings, and friends of all these victims have suffered enough; and we all want to close the book on any of these cases that we can to bring a peaceful ending for that suffering to these victim's extended families. Do it for your own children's sake, and just be glad they have not been such victims in this era we live in now.

I seem tired tonight as I sit in front of this keyboard pecking away; but knowing as a chisel a message out to you there is no conscience for it to land in, nor knowledge you seem to possess as pointed out well by Lilly, that matters. You are now stuck in a place where you can't advance the case, and yet can't retreat either from outlandish claims. You are like a buoy at sea just bobbing up and down, but never going anywhere at the end of it all. You just sit there through a process just wanting to be noticed to feel alive, as you have no other way of drawing meaning to your existence. Not in your trailer, and not from all the tea in China. I think I am just going to cease being your enabler. You have fallen intellectually to being a vegetable like a mushroom, you come from shit as a base, make your presence, but are one of those which are poison if picked, and have little nutrition to offer.

TRUTHDUDE
TruthDude

United States

#19378 Oct 2, 2013
Les wrote:
<quoted text>
Just pray that my story is a lie. Let's see will ten LOLs cover it?
I have an ace up my sleeve on this one.
Les,

An Ace up your sleeve ? You don't even have a set of balls in your pants !!! If you had such information you would have played that hand out by now to get your claimed book published, or what appears to be recognition you seek. At this point I'm wondering if you even shot yourself vs. someone else doing it.

Don't worry about the LoL's, as nobody is laughing anymore. Not at your crude attempts at humor, not at how you have tried to create a loop to say you both can't tell your information, but want to. There simply is no further attention span for you to explain yourself to any of us here, nor is law enforcement apparently interested, nor the media.

Just a hunch, but as you are also the guru for the Jimmy Hoffa case; did anyone take you serious about that in law enforcement ?

You bud, could be a case study for someone's PhD in psychology !!!

TRUTHDUDE
Les

Grand Rapids, MI

#19379 Oct 2, 2013
Ursula- wrote:
~ DO YOU SEE JUST HOW MUCH YOU PROJECT YOUR CRAP ONTO OTHER PEOPLE? DO YOU SEE JUST HOW MUCH YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF? DO YOU SEE JUST HOW FULL OF SHIT YOU ARE?
It's called fighting back against irresponsible behavior.
Push them back. Push them back. Waaaaaay back. They made the rules that nothing is too disgusting to post. Stop defending their horrendous behavior. You are the most confusing poster. Sometimes I believe your actions are for honorable purposes. Sometimes I believe you are as bad as Lilly and Helen. However it's all about ego with them but I can't say that about you. Constantly bashing me for every baby step I take is not going to produce that last piece of the pie. I have taken a hell of a beating. I am sorry I don't fit the mold of a person that knows who killed Tim King, Mark Stebbins, Kristine Mihelich, Jill Robinson and Jane Allen.
None of you can put your hatred aside long enough to find out if my claims are fabricated or true.

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