The Oakland County Child Killer
Les

Warren, MI

#16492 Aug 7, 2013
Helen Dagner wrote:
Lol -now where is your evident s-this above stuff is garbage by anyone's imagination,there is absolutely NO proof of any involvement in the Occk cases,by either you or punky,you have drag this out all of these years to offer this ?? I think your best defense is to name the Investigators that allowed you to believe your own BS.Taking a polygraph on this information that you have presented is laughable at best-You did not see a Photo of anyone of these Occk children or Jane Allen and for you to taunt the families and the posters with the Idea that you did with NOT one lick of proof is absolutely unforgivable- You will be going down on this-your Jig is up--and for the posters that egged you on,knowing full well that your information is absolutely created in your own mind-well there is no hope for them either-You made contact with some family members and attorneys and promised them things -you could not produce-you asked family members to present you to the news media-and they couldn't even get the news media to bite-that is what it has been all about-I went through hundreds of posts and emails from you-and in most you even asked me-if I could get you in the news-oh your going to get some media coverage but I don't think your going to like it-when it comes-
DIG FASTER DIG HARDER You can't keep a lid on this thing much longer.
BLahhhhBlahhhBla hhh

Monroe, MI

#16493 Aug 7, 2013
Keep going Les, maybe Helen's head will explode!
You've added more on topic discussion to this case than she has in a year.
BLahhhhBlahhhBla hhh

Monroe, MI

#16494 Aug 7, 2013
Helen if you don't agree with what he's saying then simply disagree, your opinion of him and your constant need to "destroy him with your childish insults" is interfering with anything credible you have to say. Honestly you haven't "done" anything to solve this case either---no on on this board has solved this case---so get off your high horse and quit acting like you are the queen of this case and everyone runs to you as the expert...your suspect is enjoying life FREE because let's face it....he didn't do it otherwise he'd be behind bars.
QUit slinging sh^t and act like an adult...this forum was actually civil for a night while you slept for once...nugh said...you posts will be ignored hopefully by the majority of the people on here from this point on
sick of les

Washington, DC

#16495 Aug 7, 2013
Ok cofusedbyles please as a fellow family member relax and let the truth come out 1 way or the other. Think back to growing up why ways there always such tension between Dorthy and Les, Show me 1 reason why you have the feelings you do for Les, Yes he said a lot of stuff on this forum about people very close to us that I don't agree with. A lot of the stuff that happened between him and Jackie we Weren't around to witness. As I have told other family members if what he says is true and what happened at the cabin happened I will not hold 1 ounce of bad feelings towards him, but if its not true then we will discuss it later. Its not about our family its about the kids and their familys, we can't be judged for something someone else has done and for stuff we had no control of. By knowing stuff others have told me please hold back on any other outbreaks till the truth comes out. I knew a few of the people who he claims are a witness, don't think you ever meet them since the only time we meet them was during hunting season and they lived upnorth, most of them lived in Warren and moved up there, or message me on Fb and ill give you my number. Yes I'm upset with 10 years of dragging the Smentowski name through the dirt on here, but it doesn't change how he was 20 years ago.
Les

Warren, MI

#16496 Aug 7, 2013
Flat Top, Leave to a family member of the accused to show some common sense and dignity.

It is so noble of you to put the victim's families ahead of your own. I am not that noble. But I did protect our families for a long time.

Let this process see it's way through and the truth will surface. Either way. The results will be helpful. For me it's lose lose.
Les

Warren, MI

#16499 Aug 7, 2013
Dang it Truth Dude. Look what you went and done.
Started a good dialoge. Believe me Truth Dude I tried this before to post step by step information but Helen and Reasoning are good at what they do. They created so much chaos that my message could not possibly be deciphered. Just a couple of days ago Helen was remarking that my ship was sinking. What planet is she on? What forum was she reading? I feel like we finally broke the ice. And I am convinced you would not put your money where your mouth is if your not going to seek the truth and nothing but the truth. Someone emailed me today and asked "why isn't Helen attacking Truth Dude"?

I said believe me she is lighting up the phone lines trying to stop this thing.

Another request to the public. Find us some funds for a private detective. A guy that graduated last in his class can solve this case.

Can someone contact a college that can attach probabilities to each factor? Trust me my 11 billion to one is a very low estimate.
TruthDude

United States

#16500 Aug 7, 2013
Les,

I asked you for a top ten list of things you could pass a polygraph test on, and instead you give me 88. In reading through the 88 I found only three that were relevant issues that could be used in a polygraph test via #'s 1, 19, and 32. 1 and 32 deal with your claim of viewing pictures of one or more of the victims in the captivity of punky in the time frame of reference of their victimization / death.#19 deal with your testifying before the grand jury; and my interest there would be whether you did so consistent with your oath to do so truthfully, or did you perjure yourself. Therefore 85 of the 88 statements you wrote had no relevance. While others were critical of me listing this exercise in their marks, I did so for the purpose of your Not wasting the time of the pending polygraph with whatever professional you choose from the provided list.

To then further funnel this down, please provide the names of those victim(s) you claim to have seen photographs of while they were in an abducted status by punky and/or others. You have twice mentioned two to me via phone, and I want you to think about it, provide the names of those you can positively identify, and be tested on.

My goal here is to both make this test as easy for YOU as I can, and easy for the professional examiner to get down to the bottom line on. Please then provide that list of names here, and whether you answered each question put to you in the grand jury process truthfully or not consistent with your oath. With these commitments by you, we are then ready to proceed. PLEASE, Let's get serious here about the case, and no more subterfuge.

TRUTHDUDE
Les

Warren, MI

#16501 Aug 7, 2013
sick of les wrote:
Ok cofusedbyles please as a fellow family member relax and let the truth come out 1 way or the other. Think back to growing up why ways there always such tension between Dorthy and Les, Show me 1 reason why you have the feelings you do for Les, Yes he said a lot of stuff on this forum about people very close to us that I don't agree with. A lot of the stuff that happened between him and Jackie we Weren't around to witness. As I have told other family members if what he says is true and what happened at the cabin happened I will not hold 1 ounce of bad feelings towards him, but if its not true then we will discuss it later. Its not about our family its about the kids and their familys, we can't be judged for something someone else has done and for stuff we had no control of. By knowing stuff others have told me please hold back on any other outbreaks till the truth comes out. I knew a few of the people who he claims are a witness, don't think you ever meet them since the only time we meet them was during hunting season and they lived upnorth, most of them lived in Warren and moved up there, or message me on Fb and ill give you my number. Yes I'm upset with 10 years of dragging the Smentowski name through the dirt on here, but it doesn't change how he was 20 years ago.
Hey Flat Top Disreguard all judge marks. It's called the Helen Camp beat down. There's only four of them.

BTW I am convinced that some of the pictures I saw were also viewed by other family members.
confusedbyles

Asheville, NC

#16502 Aug 7, 2013
Les,

As you know, this has been alot to digest. I am sure you can understand the shock I had after coming across this forum. I can put my feelings aside to find the truth for the victims families. We will talk after the polygraph. Hopefully this will bring closure to all.
sick of les

Washington, DC

#16503 Aug 7, 2013
I'm not worried about anyone judging me, Ill be judged one day by the one that matters and until then could care less about someone juding me. If others have seen pics they haven't said anything about them.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

#16505 Aug 7, 2013
Les wrote:
Believe me Truth Dude I tried this before to post step by step information but Helen and Reasoning are good at what they do.
Honestly I have not posted for a couple days now since there was dialog between you and TruthDude but still my name is brought up as if I interrupted your list. Could you please point out the post that I interrupted your list? Or is this another hallucination of yours? Sounds a lot like the letter that Les thinks I co-wrote with Lilly. Les, I hope you realize that I have no control over Lilly or Helen. Quite honestly I'm fed up with this site and it's beyond any real discussion. So I'm done for a while so just keep me out of it, please!
blanchards are masons

South Branch, MI

#16506 Aug 7, 2013
http://politicalgraveyard.com/bio/majors-mall...

Mallett, Conrad L., Jr.(b. 1953)— of Detroit, Wayne County, Mich.; West Bloomfield, Oakland County, Mich. Born in Detroit, Wayne County, Mich., November 12, 1953. Democrat. Lawyer; executive assistant to Mayor Coleman A. Young of Detroit; director of legislative affairs for Gov. James J. Blanchard; justice of Michigan state supreme court, 1990-99; appointed 1990; resigned 1999; chief justice of Michigan state supreme court, 1997-99. African ancestry. Member, NAACP; American Bar Association; Freemasons. Still living as of 2013. See also NNDB dossier

Back to the illusions causing mass confusion...My contusion is soon turning factions of fictions into truthful non-fiction...trust...
Les

Warren, MI

#16507 Aug 7, 2013
Reasoning wrote:
<quoted text>
Honestly I have not posted for a couple days now since there was dialog between you and TruthDude but still my name is brought up as if I interrupted your list. Could you please point out the post that I interrupted your list? Or is this another hallucination of yours? Sounds a lot like the letter that Les thinks I co-wrote with Lilly. Les, I hope you realize that I have no control over Lilly or Helen. Quite honestly I'm fed up with this site and it's beyond any real discussion. So I'm done for a while so just keep me out of it, please!


Reasoning I was clearly talking about the previous point in time that you completely drowned out my posts when I tried a similar excersize.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

#16508 Aug 7, 2013
Les wrote:
<quoted text>
Reasoning I was clearly talking about the previous point in time that you completely drowned out my posts when I tried a similar excersize.
OK Les understood this time. I do know though that there were times that I would not post for months at a time and you would still bring me into your discussions. I would be accused of posts that I never made time and time again. I would like to say That I do respect TruthDude and so long as you keep me out of your discussion with your dialog with him, I will not post.
Les

Warren, MI

#16509 Aug 7, 2013
Truth Dude. I posted and it dissappeared. I have a date so I will rewrite it when I get home.
Les

Warren, MI

#16510 Aug 7, 2013
Reasoning wrote:
<quoted text>
OK Les understood this time. I do know though that there were times that I would not post for months at a time and you would still bring me into your discussions. I would be accused of posts that I never made time and time again. I would like to say That I do respect TruthDude and so long as you keep me out of your discussion with your dialog with him, I will not post.
War is hell. You have a deal.
Les

Warren, MI

#16512 Aug 8, 2013
Truth Dude I am working on more information for you. Meanwhile what is un polygraph worthy of statement 16 ?

There are some complicated issues in answering your questions. There are some legal issues and some moral issues. There are some disturbing things that I told two detectives that I never told anyone else. These issues were not brought up at the court house. I will not share this information with anyone and even if the case becomes officially solved myself nor LE will probably share either. Bottom line is these facts will effect how I can answer some questions. Let's say I am only willing to acknowledge that I saw all of the victims and I won't specifically answer any questions pertaining to a specific victim.
I testified that I attached probabilities to each victim that I viewed their photo. One was 100% one was 95% and three were something lesser. For now I will stand by statement #1.
Les

Warren, MI

#16513 Aug 8, 2013
Truth Dude I want question 28 included in any polygraph.
That is a catch all that will verify that I am an honest person.
TruthDude

Downey, CA

#16514 Aug 8, 2013
Les wrote:
Truth Dude I am working on more information for you. Meanwhile what is un polygraph worthy of statement 16 ?
There are some complicated issues in answering your questions. There are some legal issues and some moral issues. There are some disturbing things that I told two detectives that I never told anyone else. These issues were not brought up at the court house. I will not share this information with anyone and even if the case becomes officially solved myself nor LE will probably share either. Bottom line is these facts will effect how I can answer some questions. Let's say I am only willing to acknowledge that I saw all of the victims and I won't specifically answer any questions pertaining to a specific victim.
I testified that I attached probabilities to each victim that I viewed their photo. One was 100% one was 95% and three were something lesser. For now I will stand by statement #1.
Les,

I have twenty six years and eighteen thousand tests of experience, and teach in my field. I seek consensus here for all in having selected these lowest common denominator questions / issues; and you should see them as foundational to your claims. These other things fall into the category of "Nice to Know", but are not testable issues. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth Les, either you want this test, or you don't. You have used the idea of one as a prop or sorts for the last year and a half that I know of. There are limits as to what can be done in a polygraph, and I have tried to assist. Either take advantage of this opportunity, or don't. I think a general perception here is that a Truth teller would grasp at this opportunity on somebody else's dime; and your resisting rather than grasping here.

TRUTHDUDE
Les

Warren, MI

#16515 Aug 8, 2013
Jane Allen was the 95%

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