The Oakland County Child Killer
TruthDude

United States

#14770 Apr 11, 2013
Reasoning wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep everything buried as much as possible. Avoid revealing because LE could never make heads or tails out of anything including the basic facts so it would be just too embarassing for the public to know. Go wonder why Robertson Senior in the 70s never wanted the families to get together back in it's day. He discouraged it because they might have found contradictions back then from the various LE contacts!
Hi Reasoning,

Don't forget that there were TWO confessions in the OCCK case that would explain part of it in regard to Mark Stebbins. First, Chris Busch confessed to a local private polygraph examiner in what must have been 1977/78 that he was involved in the Tim King case. Second, Gary Greene from Prison named Chris Busch as the killer of Mark Stebbins. Third, the only matching DNA of any level thus far is of Busch's known victim, James Gunnels, to K. Mihelich. Further, Busch himself claimed he sought out children in the very areas where those children were taken. Too many coincidences here to be discounted for any reasonable person. Further, The DNA taken from Sloan's car has not as yet lead to any known associate published, and which may very well lead back to the world of Chris Busch, the Fox Island group, or the Cass Coridor group; each of which were pedophile probable pals of Busch and associates. We are all frustrated at the pace it has gone here, but compared to the prior thirty years, we are at least on track as it trickles out.
Reasoning

Utica, MI

#14771 Apr 12, 2013
Truthdude;

Until someone comes along that even remotely resembles those composite sketches or the descriptions that the witnesses desscribe (AND WAS NOT IN PRISON WHEN THOSE SKETCHES WERE CONCEIVED!)... the Chris Busch clan just does not line up. However, maybe an associate of Chris Busch that is an 'artist' may be the link to the whole OCCK thing including his so called suicide could be the answer.

Until there is an arrest, it's all speculation.

Since: Jan 13

Detroit, MI

#14772 Apr 13, 2013
Holy schhhtick...so my former lawyer texted me before I was supposed to go to court "remember you need to be in judge ????? courtroom for divorce final and violation of ppo. Bla bla bla" so I state who are u working for ??????????Chief CSA now CHiEF DISTRICT JUDGE) or your former client?" He responds "I don't know whom ?????????? Is .." and another "and I no longer work for you" I responded back and it was about five or more txts from both of us..he never put forth this much effort in whole cover up fiasco...anyhow I alk to debbie jarvis (my phone b tapped) and told her I wasn't going to court..was just a simple ppo violation for pleading for fibers n dog bones and that a bench warrant wouldn't allow them to come n pick me up..had a long convo with her and then my dad stating I was following through and the families havve never been this close to an answer. Sent an email to cathy broad(our emails ar. Bugged) and stated same thing...saying we have enough to go on and we need to find a way blah blah blah..I then crash out feeling calm and relaxed knowing justice is just around corner..
Wake up to a text from step father " whom did u email last night? And another "Call me ASAP" so I run out da door and call...come to find out those in power sent an email as me(bugged) to judge ????? Stating something to effect that I was gonna show up an kill everyone..ex said there were four cops waiting to arrest and stifle me yet again...only this time its more corrupt and straight up BS then I could ever imagine...they now have an arrest warrant for me for a federal crime I would never even fathom or send such nonsense...this is straight from those whom are supposed to ensure justice...jah know how deep their lies go and they are now trying to send me away for what? Nothing...no email as my ex always beat on me and id fall to ground. So freaked out how dirty these peoplez are...this will not end with me doing prison time for trying to get them to solve this crime...so messed up what they continue to do to poor families..add my daughter to the list of victims they don't care about...lost her daddy and her fragile psyche for speaking gods truth!!! Good thing psalms 91 will help me until this fiasco is opened up and seen for what it really is...such a tragedy and injustice that keeps growing...off with your egos as we gonna expose all that was illegal
TruthDude

United States

#14773 Apr 13, 2013
Reasoning wrote:
Truthdude;
Until someone comes along that even remotely resembles those composite sketches or the descriptions that the witnesses desscribe (AND WAS NOT IN PRISON WHEN THOSE SKETCHES WERE CONCEIVED!)... the Chris Busch clan just does not line up. However, maybe an associate of Chris Busch that is an 'artist' may be the link to the whole OCCK thing including his so called suicide could be the answer.
Until there is an arrest, it's all speculation.
Reasoning,

GOOD POINT !! The Counterpoint is that two members of the task force were "Not Able To Determine" if Greg Greene ever made bail, or was out at the time of V #4 Tim King abduction. The widely circulated sketch I know of has universal acceptance as most resembling Greene. I can't say if Greene was an Artist, but certainly his transcripts from school(s) would be revealing of that. Further, the sole matching DNA (at whatever level) is to James Gunnels as taken from V#3 K. Mihelich, and that he was known to have been a Busch Victim and perceived lure for children for Busch and Greene and/or others. The perceived Stebbin's hoodie drawing taken from Busch's bedside is of the very victim he was polygraphed about, and whom Greene gave up via Busch as the killer of Stebbins. Further, Busch's confession in an unrelated test to a polygraph examiner. None of these are speculation, and rather weave a web of proactive pedophiles who admitted to picking up children in the very areas where these victims were taken from. Too many coincidences to be ignored for any reasonable person looking in from the outside. The answer may in fact be that it was "All Of The Above" as to all of these individuals being in the Fox Island family or Cass Corridor crew at some level.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

#14774 Apr 14, 2013
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Reasoning,
GOOD POINT !! The Counterpoint is that two members of the task force were "Not Able To Determine" if Greg Greene ever made bail, or was out at the time of V #4 Tim King abduction.
Prisons don't keep records of attendance? Or are they thrown away after so many years?
Motown Man

Comstock Park, MI

#14775 Apr 14, 2013
Pill-
How u know there's actually a warrant out there? The turth will set you free! Show me the MONEY!
TruthDude

United States

#14776 Apr 14, 2013
Reasoning wrote:
<quoted text>
Prisons don't keep records of attendance? Or are they thrown away after so many years?
Reasoning,

In this case, we are talking about Jail, not Prison; and yes they do keep records as to credit time served, as is required by the judiciary and given by a sheriff's office. One need only look at the original arrest date, and then sentencing date, and credit for time already served. While Greene was given life,---- as we know life does not always mean life, and cases are reviewed for parole every now and then. The information exists, and should be resolved as a matter of the investigation due to the sketch being such a close match to Greene.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

#14778 Apr 14, 2013
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
The information exists, and should be resolved as a matter of the investigation due to the sketch being such a close match to Greene.
If Chris Busch was ever considered a OCCK suspect now or in the past, I would think this information would have already been established and well known as fact that Greene was out at that precise date. However, considering how contradictive the facts are wrapped around this whole case, it's probably impossible to determine like everything else.
Reasoning

Utica, MI

#14779 Apr 15, 2013
Some questions along with some possible speculation.
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't forget that there were TWO confessions in the OCCK case that would explain part of it in regard to Mark Stebbins. First, Chris Busch confessed to a local private polygraph examiner in what must have been 1977/78 that he was involved in the Tim King case.
Was there details of Tim King’s abduction and murder specifically or OCCK in general ? There is a big difference here. Or was Tim King’s name referenced only because you were associated with him? I ask this because I thought the original context of Chris Busch’s confession was only in reference to Mark the 1st victim.
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Second, Gary Greene from Prison named Chris Busch as the killer of Mark Stebbins..
What does such a general claim like this mean? Busch acted alone and did everything by himself? Maybe one possibility is that Mark Stebbins might have been a previous sex victim of Chris Busch and Greene knew this. Since the first OCCK victim was Mark it may very well be a link back to Busch and that might have been the killer’s intention. The drawing of Mark at Busch suicide seems to signify that.
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Third, the only matching DNA of any level thus far is of Busch's known victim, James Gunnels, to K. Mihelich. Further, Busch himself claimed he sought out children in the very areas where those children were taken. Too many coincidences here to be discounted for any reasonable person.
Reasonable person? Another reasonable answer from a reasonable person may be the killer knew Chris Busch and his operations very well. Perhaps a previous victim or previous associate of Chris Busch that tried to make it look like Chris Busch was responsible. Perhaps the killer knew this underground world very well. Perhaps the only revenge possible to Busch was to frame a serial killer to Busch. Hence the simulating sex with an object to make it look like Busch and his clan were involved. How else does this ever make any sense? Perhaps the killer planted Gunnels hair thinking it was Busch hair. Hard to tell who’s hair is whose taken from someone’s car. Maybe the obvious is just not that obvious! I would rather someone try to explain to me how someone like Chris Busch that never bothered to comb his own hair could have had sex, took care of these kids and killed them without leaving a single hair/finger print/sperm of his own on any of them?!? He didn’t seem to be that clever on getting caught with his other activities.
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Further, The DNA taken from Sloan's car has not as yet lead to any known associate published, and which may very well lead back to the world of Chris Busch, the Fox Island group, or the Cass Coridor group; each of which were pedophile probable pals of Busch and associates.
If this was some type of frame work on Busch, it probably will. Take a clump of hairs and fuzz from Busch’s car or anyone else and you would probably find all kinds of hairs trailing back to them. You think Sloan and Busch actually worked together?
Reasoning

Utica, MI

#14781 Apr 15, 2013
Helen Dagner wrote:
I sure would like to hear a tape recording of any of these claims attributed to Busch said-However there are none-like this claim (
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
(" Busch himself claimed he sought out children in the very areas where those children were taken. Too many coincidences here to be discounted for any reasonable person.")---Now isn't this strange? I think those addresses must be rubber stamp-as the very description of these areas-were in Lawson's court papers and then again in Teds court papers and at this time-you heard Kim Worthy tell the world-Ted was the Oakland County Child Killer!! Not one mention of Busch in either court papers -Hmmmm-See this is the problem-recycling old info has to come with some amount of research-but in this case it doesn't-You all remember the Mark Stebbins suit were Att. Berkley,described the brutal death of Mark at the hands of Ted,that was all taken from prior police reports-but Mark wasn't mention in the original reports nor was Ted-It is all like a big Rubik Cube,you keep twisting that sucker until you get a match -
This would be real interesting to quote from all these sources specifically. What are we talking about anyway? Exact parking lots where the kids were abducted? Busch was stupider then we thought if he did this. Almost like saying loudly, I'm the OCCK come and get me. He should have left his finger prints all over these kids if he was that stupid. Or are we talking just generally Woodward? That sure ain't saying much if that's the case.
Reasoning

Utica, MI

#14785 Apr 15, 2013
Helen Dagner wrote:
Ok-this is from memory -so hope I get it right-AREAS-- 9 mile and Woodward ave in Ferndale -in Royal oak near 13 mile rd & Woodward--In the area of 12 mile and Greenfield rd -more specifically Hartfields Bowling Alley and the 7-11 party store located directly across the street-
So are we saying that Chris Busch hunted these same exact locations (Down to the square footage)on previous times with children. Was already known by many (including LE & victims) that he hunted these areas. He already knew that they knew. The next round decides to hold them for long periods of time, raise as much shock to the communities as possible, kill them and dump them near roads to be easily seen (including near police station). Was he that stupid? This sure sounds more like someone was trying to make these look like Chris Busch was responsible for them and tried to get as much attention as possible. Maybe tried to give him the OCCK royalties at his suicide with a sketch pointing to the first victim.
Mike

Sterling Heights, MI

#14787 Apr 15, 2013
Pill - Bench warrant issued for not appearing at court.

No action taken re: threats. Deputies on hand as a precaution.
Reasoning

Utica, MI

#14796 Apr 17, 2013
Helen Dagner wrote:
<quoted text>My site is down right now-so I can not get the proof-but Mr.King in his last Media statement -said it was no coincidence that these same areas that Busch was suppose to of stated and that appeared in the Busch search warrant-also were where 3 of the children were picked up-So Patrick,picked that up as being true-but it is not -it was just fill that Sgt. Gray put in the Search Warrant papers-that is what I mean-this stuff gets out there like it is a legal proof-I'm sure that is the way Mr. King took it and others did-because why would they have to think -was this warrant padded-they would believe that an FOIA Document was true--
Well Mr. King did tell me personally on the side at his presentation that John was cleared and he was firm about it. That was the end of the discussion as we were interrupted and I walked away. I must wonder though which cop cleared John for Mr. King? Was it the one that told me the disussions never took place in the first place so there was no way I heard them. Or was it the cop that told me that he personally interviewed the Big Boy staff and confirmed the discussions did take place. I can confirm that neither of these cops are telling the truth. And this could very well had been their response to many inquiries in the past. When it comes to the OCCK investigation of Chris or John, I don't believe anything they tell anyone! Such a conflict of inaccuracies that boggles the mind. Which one is heads and which one is tails and which one should I put more faith in. Same goes with the documents. Which one is accurate? As far as a search warrant of course they going to word it where is would pass. Does the original Busch arrest papers ever reveal exact locations?
Helen and the Rodeo Band

Warren, MI

#14798 Apr 17, 2013
If loving John is wrong I don't wanna be right
If being right means being without John
I'd rather live a wrong doing life
Your mama and daddy say it's a shame
It's a downright disgrace
Long as I got you by my side
I don't care what your people say
Your friends tell you there's no future
In loving a killer man
If I can't see you when I want to
I'll see you when I can
If loving you is wrong I don't wanna be right
If loving you is wrong I don't wanna be right
Am I wrong to fall so deeply in love with you
Knowing you killed those little children
Depending on me too
And am I wrong to hunger
for the gentleness of your touch
knowing I got somebody else at home
who needs me just as much
And are you wrong to fall in love
With a killer man
And am I wrong trying to hold on
To the best thing I ever had
If loving you is wrong I don't wanna be right
If loving you is wrong I don't wanna be right
Are you wrong to give your love
To a killer man
And am I wrong trying to hold on
To the best thing I ever had
If loving you is wrong I don't wanna be right
If loving you is wrong I don't wanna be right
I don't wanna be right
If it means sleeping alone at night
I don't wanna be right
If it means coming home at night
I don't wanna, I don't wanna
I don't wanna never, never, never be right
Reasoning

Utica, MI

#14799 Apr 18, 2013
Lester and his Jesters wrote:
If loving John is wrong I don't wanna be right
If being right means being without John
I'd rather live a wrong doing life
Has anyone noticed that Dan is much more creative and thoughtful than this? Perhaps someone needs to learn from Dan's postings here.
Rhonda

Warren, MI

#14804 Apr 21, 2013
Well Helen since you have systematically eliminated 9,999 suspects leaving only John with your fine detective skills I agree you have won the Who tortured and killed the children sweepstakes. Congratulations that all of your years of unbiased research has paid off.

Judged:

17

16

15

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STC

Bloomfield Hills, MI

#14805 Apr 22, 2013
Rhonda wrote:
Well Helen since you have systematically eliminated 9,999 suspects leaving only John with your fine detective skills I agree you have won the Who tortured and killed the children sweepstakes. Congratulations that all of your years of unbiased research has paid off.
Les ?
you forgot to make that fake United States locaton . LoL still says warren . Slow on jitney jobs today ??
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

#14806 Apr 22, 2013
STC wrote:
<quoted text>
Les ?
you forgot to make that fake United States location . LoL still says warren . Slow on jitney jobs today ??
Rhonda (United States) is the one that meets Les at Tim Horton's and stated something on his behalf that some breaking OCCK news was just around the corner. I think that was months ago now. LOL Also Rhonda seems to use numbers and terms like 'systematically eliminated 9,999' much like Les does in his probability studies. Seems like Les followers follow Les down to a tee. You would almost fool yourself into thinking it's the same person.

Are we done discussing OCCK on here? Seems like the ones that really did discuss the topic are long gone. Where do we sit with Greene being in or out of jail on Tim's abduction date when the OCCK sketch images were conceived? Where do we sit with Busch hunting the same exact grounds of the OCCK? Where were these facts first stated in documents and are they accurate?

Judged:

10

10

10

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Rhonda I Mean Les

Warren, MI

#14807 Apr 22, 2013
STC wrote:
<quoted text>
Les ?
you forgot to make that fake United States locaton . LoL still says warren . Slow on jitney jobs today ??
Dear STD. Since when is the United States a fake location? Rhonda Lives in Centerline which is in Warren. Warren is a big city. She keeps saying she is willing to prove she is not me.
Her and Angelica had a falling out. I still talk to both of them but not alot.

Since: Mar 07

Detroit, MI

#14808 Apr 22, 2013
Reasoning wrote:
<quoted text>
Rhonda (United States) is the one that meets Les at Tim Horton's and stated something on his behalf that some breaking OCCK news was just around the corner. I think that was months ago now. LOL Also Rhonda seems to use numbers and terms like 'systematically eliminated 9,999' much like Les does in his probability studies. Seems like Les followers follow Les down to a tee. You would almost fool yourself into thinking it's the same person.
Are we done discussing OCCK on here? Seems like the ones that really did discuss the topic are long gone. Where do we sit with Greene being in or out of jail on Tim's abduction date when the OCCK sketch images were conceived? Where do we sit with Busch hunting the same exact grounds of the OCCK? Where were these facts first stated in documents and are they accurate?
Regarding the OCCK. Yes Busch makes sense as a suspect because he had a history of child molestation, because he molested Gunnels, whose familial DNA matches a hair found on an OCCK victim and because Greene allegedly confessed to having been involved. One could even stretch this into connecting John Hastings since he lived near Busch. BUT WHAT MAKES NO SENSE IS THIS. ALL THESE MICHIGAN MURDERS WERE WED/SUN AND ALL THE OCCK KIDS WERE ABDUCTED OR MURDERED ONE DAY AWAY FROM A MAJOR HOLIDAY. THIS MAKES NO SENSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS FROM THE STANDPOINT OF A CHILD MOLESTOR BUT MAKES COMPLETE SENSE WHEN VIEWED FROM ZODIAC CHILD KILLER VIEWPOINT.

Connections to Filthy McNasty match my suspect. Wed/Sun were my suspects days off and look at all the connections to the Funeral of my suspects father. Victims were about same age as when suspects father died, victims were redressed as father had been in casket, victims nails were cleaned as fathers hands were in casket, victims hands crossed as suspects father hands were crossed in casket, victims left in public view as suspects father was at funeral home.

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