The Oakland County Child Killer

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Les

Warren, MI

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#14757
Apr 7, 2013
 

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Helen Dagner wrote:
Les,none of those statements of yours would be off topic,If you were posting them on your own site-This is not your site and never has been-that is why you get the reaction that you do-Again-get your self a forum of your own-I say this in your best interest-Les,why can you not get it through your head -people do not come to this forum to read about your personal life,even if it is interesting-there is a time and place for everything-this is not the place for your story telling...I bet you would be surprised to see the following you would have -if you started your own site...
Congratulations on your big win. I am sure you will be rewarded for all of your wonderful efforts. I can only be saved by 11 billion to one odds. No pulse. No glory.

Since: Apr 12

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#14759
Apr 9, 2013
 

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So what now? Channel 7 here in Detroit has another useless tidbit of information tonight...I believe many people (especially anyone following the various forums on the OCCK) already knew. This just continues to drag along and it is frustrating... Families are going to die off before they get their answer...I wonder if that is what LE wants. I have given up hope that this case will be solved and it is just a disgrace to these children.
Tom

Utica, MI

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#14760
Apr 10, 2013
 

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Been sifting through page after page of useless squabbling. Does anyone have a comprehensive update on what is happening regarding this case?
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14763
Apr 11, 2013
 

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Since no one involved with the 1977 OCCK investigation is involved with the OCCK investigation today, no one is held accountable for anything. Looks like the basic facts themselves are considered 'contradictive folklore' depending on what source you look at. This goes the same with the investigation in Alpena in 1991. Since no one involved back then is involved today nothing or no one is held accountable. The FOIA documents themsleves contradict what is known as the 'truth'. After the response from LE to the general public and governement sources that there was nothing to Helen's claims all those years, no one is held accountable for that either.

The whole OCCK case with it's many tangents and potential suspects provides nothing but dead ends since the basic facts can not even be determined. Probably the most botched up investigations ever made on any crime in history.

Ask anyone in LE (Or a reporter for that matter) the basic OCCK facts. If you don't like their answers ask another one. The actual facts change depending on who you talk to! They could never report status to the public or victim's families because they can't even agree on the basic facts.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14765
Apr 11, 2013
 

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Helen Dagner wrote:
<quoted text> I Agree-This Is not an active Cover -up,It is The result of A Confederacy of Incompetent Individuals,Oakland County Mi Law Enforcement and News Media
Keep everything buried as much as possible. Avoid revealing because LE could never make heads or tails out of anything including the basic facts so it would be just too embarassing for the public to know. Go wonder why Robertson Senior in the 70s never wanted the families to get together back in it's day. He discouraged it because they might have found contradictions back then from the various LE contacts!

Since: Jan 13

Detroit, MI

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#14766
Apr 11, 2013
 

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Those in charge of keeping these awful crimes hidden are about to 86 me again when I go to court...thanks to catherines blog I stumbled upon the fact that my good for nothing lawyer has the same last name as the former chief. CSA of prosecutors office whom is now the chief district judge...IE in charge of 34 different judges in sixteen districts...I'm betting my freedom its as big of a cover up as I initially stated. And now its not a coincidence(sp?) They have the same last name as they are connected as family at publicrecords.com ...I bet its also not a coincedence that he never once did anything I requested in this long and dreadful battle. What's even more disturbing is said lawyer called me five or six times trying to convince me to hire him(ILLEGAL)...stating you want someone whom has a personal relationship with the judge and we. "Hob Nobb it on the golf course all the time. I have a personal relationship with the judge" pfft mo like I'm married to the mob and we straight up about to rob ur ass with our mighty class. Good thing I'm no ass being played for a donkey jah one pissed off honkey...go ahead and charge me with obstruction of justice just know the proof is in the pudding and it all over the feds faces. Such disgraces to humanity continuing this calamity and messing with peoplez sanity...u can bust me all u want but the truth is now at the forefront and I won't stop until truth is known...betta run and hide before they come and bust my pride and dope my brain to hinder their injustice...
TRUST IN JESUS and his JUSTICE...

Since: Mar 13

Detroit, MI

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#14767
Apr 11, 2013
 

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In the fight against these victims families
National agencies kept full control of their police forces
Security and intelligence personnel
As well as judicial authorities...

Now our truth is like a pack of ferociously frustrated lions
NO One has to defend us...
Jah set us loose and we will now defend ourselves...

So send out the swat team to come n stifle me but jah know all my peoplez be following suit to give y'alll the boot...

Justice will be served and its well deserved
TruthDude

Los Angeles, CA

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#14770
Apr 11, 2013
 

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Reasoning wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep everything buried as much as possible. Avoid revealing because LE could never make heads or tails out of anything including the basic facts so it would be just too embarassing for the public to know. Go wonder why Robertson Senior in the 70s never wanted the families to get together back in it's day. He discouraged it because they might have found contradictions back then from the various LE contacts!
Hi Reasoning,

Don't forget that there were TWO confessions in the OCCK case that would explain part of it in regard to Mark Stebbins. First, Chris Busch confessed to a local private polygraph examiner in what must have been 1977/78 that he was involved in the Tim King case. Second, Gary Greene from Prison named Chris Busch as the killer of Mark Stebbins. Third, the only matching DNA of any level thus far is of Busch's known victim, James Gunnels, to K. Mihelich. Further, Busch himself claimed he sought out children in the very areas where those children were taken. Too many coincidences here to be discounted for any reasonable person. Further, The DNA taken from Sloan's car has not as yet lead to any known associate published, and which may very well lead back to the world of Chris Busch, the Fox Island group, or the Cass Coridor group; each of which were pedophile probable pals of Busch and associates. We are all frustrated at the pace it has gone here, but compared to the prior thirty years, we are at least on track as it trickles out.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14771
Apr 12, 2013
 

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Truthdude;

Until someone comes along that even remotely resembles those composite sketches or the descriptions that the witnesses desscribe (AND WAS NOT IN PRISON WHEN THOSE SKETCHES WERE CONCEIVED!)... the Chris Busch clan just does not line up. However, maybe an associate of Chris Busch that is an 'artist' may be the link to the whole OCCK thing including his so called suicide could be the answer.

Until there is an arrest, it's all speculation.

Since: Jan 13

Ann Arbor, MI

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#14772
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Holy schhhtick...so my former lawyer texted me before I was supposed to go to court "remember you need to be in judge ????? courtroom for divorce final and violation of ppo. Bla bla bla" so I state who are u working for ??????????Chief CSA now CHiEF DISTRICT JUDGE) or your former client?" He responds "I don't know whom ?????????? Is .." and another "and I no longer work for you" I responded back and it was about five or more txts from both of us..he never put forth this much effort in whole cover up fiasco...anyhow I alk to debbie jarvis (my phone b tapped) and told her I wasn't going to court..was just a simple ppo violation for pleading for fibers n dog bones and that a bench warrant wouldn't allow them to come n pick me up..had a long convo with her and then my dad stating I was following through and the families havve never been this close to an answer. Sent an email to cathy broad(our emails ar. Bugged) and stated same thing...saying we have enough to go on and we need to find a way blah blah blah..I then crash out feeling calm and relaxed knowing justice is just around corner..
Wake up to a text from step father " whom did u email last night? And another "Call me ASAP" so I run out da door and call...come to find out those in power sent an email as me(bugged) to judge ????? Stating something to effect that I was gonna show up an kill everyone..ex said there were four cops waiting to arrest and stifle me yet again...only this time its more corrupt and straight up BS then I could ever imagine...they now have an arrest warrant for me for a federal crime I would never even fathom or send such nonsense...this is straight from those whom are supposed to ensure justice...jah know how deep their lies go and they are now trying to send me away for what? Nothing...no email as my ex always beat on me and id fall to ground. So freaked out how dirty these peoplez are...this will not end with me doing prison time for trying to get them to solve this crime...so messed up what they continue to do to poor families..add my daughter to the list of victims they don't care about...lost her daddy and her fragile psyche for speaking gods truth!!! Good thing psalms 91 will help me until this fiasco is opened up and seen for what it really is...such a tragedy and injustice that keeps growing...off with your egos as we gonna expose all that was illegal
TruthDude

United States

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#14773
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Reasoning wrote:
Truthdude;
Until someone comes along that even remotely resembles those composite sketches or the descriptions that the witnesses desscribe (AND WAS NOT IN PRISON WHEN THOSE SKETCHES WERE CONCEIVED!)... the Chris Busch clan just does not line up. However, maybe an associate of Chris Busch that is an 'artist' may be the link to the whole OCCK thing including his so called suicide could be the answer.
Until there is an arrest, it's all speculation.
Reasoning,

GOOD POINT !! The Counterpoint is that two members of the task force were "Not Able To Determine" if Greg Greene ever made bail, or was out at the time of V #4 Tim King abduction. The widely circulated sketch I know of has universal acceptance as most resembling Greene. I can't say if Greene was an Artist, but certainly his transcripts from school(s) would be revealing of that. Further, the sole matching DNA (at whatever level) is to James Gunnels as taken from V#3 K. Mihelich, and that he was known to have been a Busch Victim and perceived lure for children for Busch and Greene and/or others. The perceived Stebbin's hoodie drawing taken from Busch's bedside is of the very victim he was polygraphed about, and whom Greene gave up via Busch as the killer of Stebbins. Further, Busch's confession in an unrelated test to a polygraph examiner. None of these are speculation, and rather weave a web of proactive pedophiles who admitted to picking up children in the very areas where these victims were taken from. Too many coincidences to be ignored for any reasonable person looking in from the outside. The answer may in fact be that it was "All Of The Above" as to all of these individuals being in the Fox Island family or Cass Corridor crew at some level.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14774
Apr 14, 2013
 

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TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Reasoning,
GOOD POINT !! The Counterpoint is that two members of the task force were "Not Able To Determine" if Greg Greene ever made bail, or was out at the time of V #4 Tim King abduction.
Prisons don't keep records of attendance? Or are they thrown away after so many years?
Motown Man

Auburn Hills, MI

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#14775
Apr 14, 2013
 

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Pill-
How u know there's actually a warrant out there? The turth will set you free! Show me the MONEY!
TruthDude

United States

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#14776
Apr 14, 2013
 

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Reasoning wrote:
<quoted text>
Prisons don't keep records of attendance? Or are they thrown away after so many years?
Reasoning,

In this case, we are talking about Jail, not Prison; and yes they do keep records as to credit time served, as is required by the judiciary and given by a sheriff's office. One need only look at the original arrest date, and then sentencing date, and credit for time already served. While Greene was given life,---- as we know life does not always mean life, and cases are reviewed for parole every now and then. The information exists, and should be resolved as a matter of the investigation due to the sketch being such a close match to Greene.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14778
Apr 14, 2013
 

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TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
The information exists, and should be resolved as a matter of the investigation due to the sketch being such a close match to Greene.
If Chris Busch was ever considered a OCCK suspect now or in the past, I would think this information would have already been established and well known as fact that Greene was out at that precise date. However, considering how contradictive the facts are wrapped around this whole case, it's probably impossible to determine like everything else.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14779
Apr 15, 2013
 

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Some questions along with some possible speculation.
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't forget that there were TWO confessions in the OCCK case that would explain part of it in regard to Mark Stebbins. First, Chris Busch confessed to a local private polygraph examiner in what must have been 1977/78 that he was involved in the Tim King case.
Was there details of Tim King’s abduction and murder specifically or OCCK in general ? There is a big difference here. Or was Tim King’s name referenced only because you were associated with him? I ask this because I thought the original context of Chris Busch’s confession was only in reference to Mark the 1st victim.
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Second, Gary Greene from Prison named Chris Busch as the killer of Mark Stebbins..
What does such a general claim like this mean? Busch acted alone and did everything by himself? Maybe one possibility is that Mark Stebbins might have been a previous sex victim of Chris Busch and Greene knew this. Since the first OCCK victim was Mark it may very well be a link back to Busch and that might have been the killer’s intention. The drawing of Mark at Busch suicide seems to signify that.
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Third, the only matching DNA of any level thus far is of Busch's known victim, James Gunnels, to K. Mihelich. Further, Busch himself claimed he sought out children in the very areas where those children were taken. Too many coincidences here to be discounted for any reasonable person.
Reasonable person? Another reasonable answer from a reasonable person may be the killer knew Chris Busch and his operations very well. Perhaps a previous victim or previous associate of Chris Busch that tried to make it look like Chris Busch was responsible. Perhaps the killer knew this underground world very well. Perhaps the only revenge possible to Busch was to frame a serial killer to Busch. Hence the simulating sex with an object to make it look like Busch and his clan were involved. How else does this ever make any sense? Perhaps the killer planted Gunnels hair thinking it was Busch hair. Hard to tell who’s hair is whose taken from someone’s car. Maybe the obvious is just not that obvious! I would rather someone try to explain to me how someone like Chris Busch that never bothered to comb his own hair could have had sex, took care of these kids and killed them without leaving a single hair/finger print/sperm of his own on any of them?!? He didn’t seem to be that clever on getting caught with his other activities.
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
Further, The DNA taken from Sloan's car has not as yet lead to any known associate published, and which may very well lead back to the world of Chris Busch, the Fox Island group, or the Cass Coridor group; each of which were pedophile probable pals of Busch and associates.
If this was some type of frame work on Busch, it probably will. Take a clump of hairs and fuzz from Busch’s car or anyone else and you would probably find all kinds of hairs trailing back to them. You think Sloan and Busch actually worked together?
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14781
Apr 15, 2013
 

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Helen Dagner wrote:
I sure would like to hear a tape recording of any of these claims attributed to Busch said-However there are none-like this claim (
TruthDude wrote:
<quoted text>
(" Busch himself claimed he sought out children in the very areas where those children were taken. Too many coincidences here to be discounted for any reasonable person.")---Now isn't this strange? I think those addresses must be rubber stamp-as the very description of these areas-were in Lawson's court papers and then again in Teds court papers and at this time-you heard Kim Worthy tell the world-Ted was the Oakland County Child Killer!! Not one mention of Busch in either court papers -Hmmmm-See this is the problem-recycling old info has to come with some amount of research-but in this case it doesn't-You all remember the Mark Stebbins suit were Att. Berkley,described the brutal death of Mark at the hands of Ted,that was all taken from prior police reports-but Mark wasn't mention in the original reports nor was Ted-It is all like a big Rubik Cube,you keep twisting that sucker until you get a match -
This would be real interesting to quote from all these sources specifically. What are we talking about anyway? Exact parking lots where the kids were abducted? Busch was stupider then we thought if he did this. Almost like saying loudly, I'm the OCCK come and get me. He should have left his finger prints all over these kids if he was that stupid. Or are we talking just generally Woodward? That sure ain't saying much if that's the case.
Reasoning

United States

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#14785
Apr 15, 2013
 

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Helen Dagner wrote:
Ok-this is from memory -so hope I get it right-AREAS-- 9 mile and Woodward ave in Ferndale -in Royal oak near 13 mile rd & Woodward--In the area of 12 mile and Greenfield rd -more specifically Hartfields Bowling Alley and the 7-11 party store located directly across the street-
So are we saying that Chris Busch hunted these same exact locations (Down to the square footage)on previous times with children. Was already known by many (including LE & victims) that he hunted these areas. He already knew that they knew. The next round decides to hold them for long periods of time, raise as much shock to the communities as possible, kill them and dump them near roads to be easily seen (including near police station). Was he that stupid? This sure sounds more like someone was trying to make these look like Chris Busch was responsible for them and tried to get as much attention as possible. Maybe tried to give him the OCCK royalties at his suicide with a sketch pointing to the first victim.
Mike

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14787
Apr 15, 2013
 

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Pill - Bench warrant issued for not appearing at court.

No action taken re: threats. Deputies on hand as a precaution.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

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#14796
Apr 17, 2013
 

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Helen Dagner wrote:
<quoted text>My site is down right now-so I can not get the proof-but Mr.King in his last Media statement -said it was no coincidence that these same areas that Busch was suppose to of stated and that appeared in the Busch search warrant-also were where 3 of the children were picked up-So Patrick,picked that up as being true-but it is not -it was just fill that Sgt. Gray put in the Search Warrant papers-that is what I mean-this stuff gets out there like it is a legal proof-I'm sure that is the way Mr. King took it and others did-because why would they have to think -was this warrant padded-they would believe that an FOIA Document was true--
Well Mr. King did tell me personally on the side at his presentation that John was cleared and he was firm about it. That was the end of the discussion as we were interrupted and I walked away. I must wonder though which cop cleared John for Mr. King? Was it the one that told me the disussions never took place in the first place so there was no way I heard them. Or was it the cop that told me that he personally interviewed the Big Boy staff and confirmed the discussions did take place. I can confirm that neither of these cops are telling the truth. And this could very well had been their response to many inquiries in the past. When it comes to the OCCK investigation of Chris or John, I don't believe anything they tell anyone! Such a conflict of inaccuracies that boggles the mind. Which one is heads and which one is tails and which one should I put more faith in. Same goes with the documents. Which one is accurate? As far as a search warrant of course they going to word it where is would pass. Does the original Busch arrest papers ever reveal exact locations?

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