The Oakland County Child Killer

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#14033 Dec 28, 2012
Interested in Royal Oak wrote:
Not sure I agree WGR ? Interesting though.
Question ? Reading back a bit, someone posted that Mr. King spoke of a new documentary coming out on this case ? Anyone know the specifics of that ?
And one more comment - sort of - I think this killer was cruel. Extremely cruel. The bone in Tim's stomach and the way Jill was killed just proves the lengths this person was willing to go to hurt the kids and the parents. I think that rules out some suspects ?
And is it possible that if someone used a bait boy and still took two girls, he might have been trying to train this boy ? If the kid thought it gay to molest a boy, did the killer get him a girl ? Was he forced to kill or watch it ? These were cruel ways to die too. Who, suspect wise, was capable of being that horrible ?
Jim Killeen is from B'ham and have been a filmmaker for many years. He was in 3rd grade when Tim disappeared. He is making the documentary and intends to explore every aspect from the "Historic Story" to John, Busch, the yucky guys etc. As with the rest of us who were close to this, his life was changed forever. He has a website occkfilm.com . You might remember the movie "Google Me"? That was one of his.
David Shurter

Council Bluffs, IA

#14034 Dec 28, 2012
Our Family’s Vehicles in Relation to Child Abductions

My father, Robert Lynn Shurter Jr., drove a big blue Northern Propane utility truck- and when I spoke to the Jacob Wetterling foundation about my concerns about my father being involved, I was told that a big blue truck was indeed involved with the abduction.

Another car familiar with these abductions is a white Oldsmobile. My grandfather, Robert Lynn Shurter I, owned this vehicle, and then, after his death- the title I believe was transferred to my grandmother, Ruth Shurter. However, my family had this car accessible to them- and it has been reported in several abductions.

Lastly- the Ford station wagon that was green with wooden panels on the outside. It opened in two directions because there were seats in the back for passengers. Funny that all three of these vehicles have been reported in child abductions, and my family- at one point or another- owned all three. Comparing that to the other things I have detailed, and the fact that, at least with the Ricky Chadek case, a woman was reportedly involved, I am again wondering why I can’t get any local official to investigate what I have been saying.

I am NOT going to perform an investigation of my own. Nothing I present will be regarded and I am afraid it would actually discredit the things that I am trying to say. Therefore- I must either get the public involved- or somehow force local law officials to look into what I have been saying over and over for years. Someone other than me MUST be involved in an investigation, so that it can’t be said that I jaded things in any way.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14035 Dec 29, 2012
Interested in Royal Oak wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you seen the documentary "Child Of Rage" ? Look it up and watch some of it. I'd like to know what you think of it ? Look at the behavior of this little girl. How do you think she'll grow up ? What will she be ? Honest opinion ?
I'm not sure how or why you relate the "Child of Rage" story to what I'd said -?

Decades ago, I participated in the successful treatment of a child with severe Attachment Disorder. However, the circumstances under which this success was acheived would be impossible to replicate in most cases - therapeutic intervention occurred whenever necessary, 24/7, over a period of FOUR YEARS and involved participation by the birth mother.

Also, everyone must please be aware that there has been a lot of ignorant quackery involving theories of Attachment Disorder. This includes inappropriate and dangerous "therapy" administered by unqualified lay persons, which have resulted in serious harm including the death of children involved:

"Bobby Vernon, Jr., 7, recently adopted by James and Marie Lapp,“therapeutic foster parents,” when he was put into a coma by his parents during a Holding Therapy session. Bobby was put into restraint on the floor when he refused to do more running up and down stairs, a compliance training exercise required of the boy. According to Bobby’s siblings, one or both of the parents slammed the boy’s head repeatedly on the floor until it fractured. The parents failed to call 911 for help until an hour after the boy lost consciousness. The siblings related to the authorities that they had been starved, isolated and beaten. The Lapps claimed that their adopted and foster children were victims of “Satanic Ritual Abuse”; they committed suicide shortly after this incident".

http://childrenintherapy.org/victims/vernon.h...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14036 Dec 29, 2012
David Shurter has been involved with a cult - but not a satanic pedophile cannibal cult as he has claimed.

The type of cult Shurter has been involved with is known as a "psychotherapy cult". Psychotherapy cults commonly misuse and abuse genuine therapeutic techniques, in combination with quack pseudoscience 'therapies', which instill and promote delusional beliefs among their members.

Scientology has been the most successful of these psychotherapy cults. It has generated numerous off-shoots, some of which remain supportive of and on good terms with the original organization, while others develop a mutually hostile relationship with The Church of Scientology. An example of the latter - the very bizarre and short-lived organization known as The Process.

David doesn't know this, and won't believe me of course, but the cult he has been involved with is also a Scientology offshoot. In fact, the concept of "trauma based mind control" is an invention of Scientology founder L Ron Hubbard.

I can provide proof of this, and links that will allow Shurter to explore what I've said for himself, but he won't be able to 'hear' me. At this point, he has so much invested in his fraudulent Satanic Abuse Victim persona that he will reflexively reject any information that comes to him from someone who has exposed his fraudulence. Nevertheless, here it is:

"During the continual process of Dianetics research, both as an auditor and as an observer of other auditors, Mr. Hubbard naturally came into contact with a wide variety of cases. And, it was inevitable that these would include those who had been in the hands of psychiatrists closely allied to the intelligence community.
Thus it came about, fully twenty-five years before the facts were made public by Congress, that Mr. Hubbard was the first to announce and decry government mind manipulation programs. Eventually, of course, these and other revelations of Central Intelligence Agency criminality would entirely reshape public perception of this group of spies from a patriotic and somewhat glamorous image to that of a rogue agency of dirty tricksters, with its own citizens as victims.
The vehicle was his 1951 book Science of Survival, and in it he described in no uncertain terms the combined use of pain, drugs and hypnosis as a behavioral modification technique of the worst kind. It was, he said, so extensively used in espionage work, it was long past the time people should have become alarmed about it. It had taken Dianetic auditing to discover the widespread existence of these brainwashing techniques, and, he added, the only saving grace was that Dianetics could undo their effects".

http://opposing.scientology.org/31-mind.htm
David Shurter

Council Bluffs, IA

#14037 Dec 29, 2012
withgreatrespect- you don't know anything about my abuse- and unless scientologists kill kids, I doubt it was any influence by Hubbard's book Dianetics that had anything to do with my abuse.

You constantly tell me that I am wrong- and now you are attacking my therapy and trying to assert facts about something you either have no idea about, or are on the other side trying to pump disinfo up people's butts.

What happened here was a child, drug, and gun trafficking ring. It had NOTHING to do with religion, and in fact the crap that was going on was basically to scare people, as far as I can tell.

However- I do want to use what you just posted on here on my blog. I find it interesting- and helpful to list the arguments against me. This one rates up there as pretty stupid. Are you expecting payment for your amateur therapy lesson? I hope not.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14038 Dec 29, 2012
David Shurter wrote:
withgreatrespect- you don't know anything about my abuse- and unless scientologists kill kids, I doubt it was any influence by Hubbard's book Dianetics that had anything to do with my abuse.
You constantly tell me that I am wrong- and now you are attacking my therapy and trying to assert facts about something you either have no idea about, or are on the other side trying to pump disinfo up people's butts.
What happened here was a child, drug, and gun trafficking ring. It had NOTHING to do with religion, and in fact the crap that was going on was basically to scare people, as far as I can tell.
However- I do want to use what you just posted on here on my blog. I find it interesting- and helpful to list the arguments against me. This one rates up there as pretty stupid. Are you expecting payment for your amateur therapy lesson? I hope not.
I'm talking about the cult you are associated with RIGHT NOW, David - not during your childhood. Wake up, man!
David Shurter

Council Bluffs, IA

#14039 Dec 29, 2012
withgreatrespect- your arguments are too dumb to be dealt with. I am not- nor have I ever been associated with scientology- and in fact my therapist is a Jungian. However, since my life is primarily sewing and writing- what cult are you referring too? Never mind- this argument is stupid.
David Shurter

Council Bluffs, IA

#14040 Dec 29, 2012
Although I read Dianetics years ago, I am not now nor have I ever been involved with Scientology. My therapist is not a Scientologist, nor has she ever done any kind of regression therapy with me. My memories are not, nor were they ever, truly ever repressed in the traditional way. Withgreatrespect and I have had arguments before- and they are convinced- or at least he/she is doing their best to try and convince others that my abuse in Omaha didn’t exist, or that is different than what I am claiming. This is the newest argument against me. Again- it is a fraudulent argument.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#14042 Dec 29, 2012
Well, I like reading WGR's posts.
Shuter's, no. Not believable.

Casob, thanks for the info.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#14043 Dec 29, 2012
CasObs wrote:
<quoted text>Jim Killeen is from B'ham and have been a filmmaker for many years. He was in 3rd grade when Tim disappeared. He is making the documentary and intends to explore every aspect from the "Historic Story" to John, Busch, the yucky guys etc. As with the rest of us who were close to this, his life was changed forever. He has a website occkfilm.com . You might remember the movie "Google Me"? That was one of his.
Doesn't say when or where it will be shown ?
David Shurter

Council Bluffs, IA

#14044 Dec 30, 2012
Interested in Royal Oak wrote:
Well, I like reading WGR's posts.
Shuter's, no. Not believable.
Casob, thanks for the info.
lol- maybe that is because you have no idea what you are talking about. But I will keep that in consideration. NOT.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#14045 Dec 30, 2012
Interested in Royal Oak wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't say when or where it will be shown ?
He is still in the backing stage. Like traditional publishing, movie making is a long,slow process. When it comes out, I am sure we will all know.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14046 Dec 30, 2012
Helen Dagner wrote:
Wow this post I just got in is complicated-I do not plan on posting it-but yet I found it very interesting---Ursula Dorson - Psychology Today
therapists.psychologytoday.com ›...› Lake Orion › 48359
Aug 9, 2012 – Psychology Today: Ursula Dorson, Limited License Psychologist, Lake Orion, MI 48359,-It goes on to say that this is the poster on this site named Ursula and also that she-Ursula and With great respect are the same person-I do not have time to chase this down-so if anyone is interested -there it is-have fun!
Helen - I'm a man, and I live more than a thousand miles away from Michigan.

I notice that "Punky Brewster" hasn't come back with a messaging activated profile as they said they would.

Someone is not happy about my research into Dyer Brossman's current identity...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14047 Dec 30, 2012
Someone is not happy about my research into DYER GROSSMAN's current identity...

(sorry about the typo)
Ursula

Royal Oak, MI

#14048 Dec 30, 2012
withgreatrespect wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure how or why you relate the "Child of Rage" story to what I'd said -?
Decades ago, I participated in the successful treatment of a child with severe Attachment Disorder. However, the circumstances under which this success was acheived would be impossible to replicate in most cases - therapeutic intervention occurred whenever necessary, 24/7, over a period of FOUR YEARS and involved participation by the birth mother.
Also, everyone must please be aware that there has been a lot of ignorant quackery involving theories of Attachment Disorder. This includes inappropriate and dangerous "therapy" administered by unqualified lay persons, which have resulted in serious harm including the death of children involved:
"Bobby Vernon, Jr., 7, recently adopted by James and Marie Lapp,“therapeutic foster parents,” when he was put into a coma by his parents during a Holding Therapy session. Bobby was put into restraint on the floor when he refused to do more running up and down stairs, a compliance training exercise required of the boy. According to Bobby’s siblings, one or both of the parents slammed the boy’s head repeatedly on the floor until it fractured. The parents failed to call 911 for help until an hour after the boy lost consciousness. The siblings related to the authorities that they had been starved, isolated and beaten. The Lapps claimed that their adopted and foster children were victims of “Satanic Ritual Abuse”; they committed suicide shortly after this incident".
http://childrenintherapy.org/victims/vernon.h...
I agree with you on the quackery. And also in the fact that you write, "severe Attachment Disorder," which implies a continuum. As an adoptee, I've dealt with abandonment and identity issues back as far back as I can remember. Also, lots of anger toward a system that basically locked me (as an infant) into a closed adoption (a contract promising privacy to the birthmother). So many adoption issues have been misunderstood in decades past. The secrecy inherent in closed adoptions only fostered the "taboo" and was unhealthy for all parties in the triad. Luckily I did go through the reunification process and met both of my birthparents - with the benefit of a support group while doing so. I read a book called "The Primal Wound" by Nancy Newton Verrier and even corresponded with her at one point. She recommended EMDR, which was very helpful. Reunification can be a difficult process (it's not all the "happy reunion" stuff the media makes it out to be) but I do think it was worth it. I did begin to feel more "whole" and I don't think I have any more "abandonment issues" than the general population at this point.

One thing that did kind of frustrate me a few years back: here in Michigan there was a criminal case brought against a birthmother who had met her birth son and started sleeping with him when he was a teen. I'm not upset about the criminal prosecution, only that professionals in the field of adoption didn't step up to educate the media and law enforcement about the phenomenon of Genetic Sexual Attraction. Yes, it's rare, but it is something that should be brought to the awareness of birthparents and adoptees so that they can recognize that those feelings aren't what they think and act on them. The media should have been educated as well, because again, the level of "taboo" associated with the hype would only further aggravate old wounds, I would I would think. In other words, the birthmother should have been prosecuted, but the phenomenon should have been considered as a mitigating circumstance for sentencing purposes and counseling with a qualified therapist ordered for the birthmother, adoptee and adoptive parent.
lurker

Royal Oak, MI

#14049 Dec 30, 2012
WGR - is he still alive? Is he still involved in Bettering Lives?
Ursula

Rockford, MI

#14052 Dec 30, 2012
Helen Dagner wrote:
<quoted text> Now you understand why I didn't post it on my site...
So who was the sender of the post you got in, anonymous Bob? It's strange that you didn't see fit to post it to your site yet you posted it here without naming the source.

To top it off, WGR seems to think the post you received has to do with his looking into Grossman. I fail to see how that has anything to do with me, but okay.

Helen, is there something that you need from me?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14053 Dec 30, 2012
Ursula wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with you on the quackery. And also in the fact that you write, "severe Attachment Disorder," which implies a continuum. As an adoptee, I've dealt with abandonment and identity issues back as far back as I can remember. Also, lots of anger toward a system that basically locked me (as an infant) into a closed adoption (a contract promising privacy to the birthmother). So many adoption issues have been misunderstood in decades past. The secrecy inherent in closed adoptions only fostered the "taboo" and was unhealthy for all parties in the triad. Luckily I did go through the reunification process and met both of my birthparents - with the benefit of a support group while doing so. I read a book called "The Primal Wound" by Nancy Newton Verrier and even corresponded with her at one point. She recommended EMDR, which was very helpful. Reunification can be a difficult process (it's not all the "happy reunion" stuff the media makes it out to be) but I do think it was worth it. I did begin to feel more "whole" and I don't think I have any more "abandonment issues" than the general population at this point.
One thing that did kind of frustrate me a few years back: here in Michigan there was a criminal case brought against a birthmother who had met her birth son and started sleeping with him when he was a teen. I'm not upset about the criminal prosecution, only that professionals in the field of adoption didn't step up to educate the media and law enforcement about the phenomenon of Genetic Sexual Attraction. Yes, it's rare, but it is something that should be brought to the awareness of birthparents and adoptees so that they can recognize that those feelings aren't what they think and act on them. The media should have been educated as well, because again, the level of "taboo" associated with the hype would only further aggravate old wounds, I would I would think. In other words, the birthmother should have been prosecuted, but the phenomenon should have been considered as a mitigating circumstance for sentencing purposes and counseling with a qualified therapist ordered for the birthmother, adoptee and adoptive parent.
I dunno what to say to this, other than - I'm very happy for you, if you have resolved whatever adoption issues may have troubled you in the past. May you be blessed!

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14054 Dec 30, 2012
Helen Dagner wrote:
<quoted text> Now you understand why I didn't post it on my site...
Good call on your part! Thanks for the 'heads up'.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#14056 Dec 30, 2012
lurker wrote:
WGR - is he still alive? Is he still involved in Bettering Lives?
Lurker - if I'm correct about his current identity, yes he is alive. If I understand you correctly, about Bettering Lives, I've seen no evidence of continued involvement.

I think it likely, that there may be aggressive campaigns to 'discredit' me very soon. This is likely to include claims about other identities I might be posting as in other places around the 'net, claims about my identity, nasty slanderous allegations about me, and so on - retaliation for my looking under rocks that someone thought would never be disturbed.

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