The Oakland County Child Killer

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#10077 May 9, 2012
Helen Dagner wrote:
Here is the thing Mr. Hughes & friend BOB--Why not just stop the Drama now-by taking your Info in to the Oakland County Prosecutors office-why all the beating a round the bush? Why not name the Pro-filers? Why not do what you should?
Yes, I agree 100%! Feels like they are playing a game, to me, and I'm just a curious onlooker - might feel a lot nastier than that to some of those with personal involvement in the case.
Helen Dagner wrote:
Now if BOB is shown in an Interview with a towel over his head or any other disguise-I'm going to flip out...
If it is possible to agree 200%, then I do.
Helen Dagner wrote:
and it is not going to be pretty-because I'm going to eat you alive--
:)
Lilly

Denver, CO

#10078 May 10, 2012
Hello,
I am feeling a bit normal again. I have been reading along. I do have a question or two and an observation or two on this Bob person.
My observations and questions are not statements.

IF ANY OF THIS IS TRUE…
Observation:
Back in 08, in his original meeting with McKinnon and other officials where he gave enough information to certainly get their attention; he asked for one small piece of theirs in return.
From what I read his request was not some kind of game of tit-for-tat. He said that because over the years LE had dragged out so many names only to later find they were not the killer and because this tactic could cause huge problems for those named, that he, Bob needed to have this one specific corroborating piece of evidence to confirm what he believed he knew. That would assure him that there would be no mistake on those that he was prepared to name should that one piece of evidence bear out his own. This is reasonable. Agreements were made and then Oakland County backed out.

Question:
Why all the games?

They could have confirmed his evidence with a piece of their own and if leaking something was a concern in their “on-going investigation” they could have threatened him with an obstruction charge if he used that one piece in any way other than what he said he needed it for. And they would have had this important information he says, he has. LE makes deals all the time for important information. It is a way of life in the modern legal world.

Question:
Isn’t this important enough for them to bend a bit to get these names?

Observation:
This Bob person’s request was not the actions of a considerate professional concern for possibly naming the wrong person or people in some kind white collar closed door deal with lawyers and police.

This was a street thing.
This is exactly what someone from the streets would do. When you pull someone’s coat or drop a dime or a name, you make damn sure you’re right because being from those streets yourself, you are fully aware of the kind of headache you can cause someone when you do it. It is just down-right dirty wrong to drop the wrong name or names without knowing for sure. It is a way of life like breathing air to get what they call a “co-sign” on a “move.”
I have read that part of it over and over and I believe that is what he was asking for, a “co-sign” on his information or “move”.
You see if you send the police to someone’s door there will be trouble when they get there. Even if the original reason for going doesn’t pan out. It will still be a problem for the people who live in that poor place where there is little representation and big police presence. It just is. He just wouldn’t snitch unless he was absolutely certain. And if he is from those streets, he would never pin a baby raping - killer stamp on someone without complete certainty. The way I read it, he was asking for that certainty.

That this meeting in 08 originated down in Detroit and not out in Oakland County is significant. I think.

IF ANY OF THIS IS TRUE…
Question:
If all he wanted was a small assurance that he was right, why not give it to him and move along with this investigation back in 08?
Observation:
And once they called his bluff and if he was lying and caused all that trouble then slap his a*s in handcuffs and charge him with obstruction.
I seems pretty simple to me. But either way it is time to move on and give the people most affected by all this the answers they deserve. And whatever it takes to do that should be a top priority for everyone involved. Continuing to play grab-ass just invites speculation of other agendas.
Question:
Am I seeing this wrong?

Since: Apr 12

United States

#10082 May 10, 2012

Since: Apr 12

United States

#10083 May 10, 2012
Royal Oak cop charged with child porn. Sorry, all, I read his age wrong. This guy was only 5 years old at the time of the OCCK murders.
Ursula

Farmington, MI

#10084 May 10, 2012
Did this Royal Oak cop follow a father/uncle or other family into law enforcement?
CWW

United States

#10085 May 10, 2012
Hi Lil,
Good to see you're still at it with questions and observations. I still value your input.
Lilly

Denver, CO

#10086 May 10, 2012
Crystal Vision wrote:
<quoted text>
Please read my post, I forgot to include your post by reply. I had no idea who your mother is... Or that she wrote a book...Everyone was looking for Lilly one day and I wondered who she was... Truthfully, I thought Lilly was a reporter... Maybe a local detroit reporter... Then Helen said Portraits in the snow... So I googled it and had initials for the author so I was sincerely asking who the author was male or female. I am so sorry to have upset you and in no way meant to disrespect your mother or any thing she has written about. Ibactually ordered the book on Amazon yesterday. Please understand I am new to this board and I am just trying to put things together.
Hello Crystal Vision,
First let me apologize for my son’s tirade toward you. I realize he posted his reasons and at my urging an apology for his lack of respect and language. But still…it was inappropriate to direct it at you. If we could bottle that twenty-something bravado we would all be rich.

You were asking a simple question and he took it back to earlier times and danger that I was in as a result of speculation as to my identity, this case and my writing about it.
When I was released from the hospital last week, and read the re-postings about inspector 71 in relation to myself and this new informant Bob and then the question,“what does anyone really know about MF Cribari;” well…I became upset – scared actually.
My son decided to look at this site and of course you know the rest. Again I apologize. If there is anything I can answer for you please just ask. Feel free to e-mail me at: [email protected]
MF Cribari – Lilly
FACTS

Petoskey, MI

#10087 May 10, 2012
From Bob:

Ms. Dagner

Unfortunately you fail to grasp the facts and efforts made to develop a relationship with Oakland County. Even someone such as yourself that has limited knowledge of the relevant suspects and evidence associated with these cases should understand that after 35 years they have failed to solve any of these child killings.

An intelligent person would understand that there are concerns with the historical activities associated with these investigations. However, it appears you lack such intelligence.

As an associate of mine pointed out if you don't know the facts, which you obviously don't, then maybe you should keep your uninformed options to yourself.

If any one on this board is sincerely interested in bringing to justice those responsible for the killings of at least 15 individuals. Then your time would be best spent demanding that Jessica Cooper turn these cases over to the D.O.J.

Anyone suggesting that this information be turned over to Jessica Cooper under the circumstances must have an IQ below 30.

Ms. Dagner, you are more afraid that the end results
will prove you wrong. That you would interfere in this effort to the extent you are that will lead to the arrest and convection of those responsible .

To me that only demonstrates that you are a sad example of a human being.

We will accomplish are objective regardless of your interference.

Since you don't know the facts it is suggested that you keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.

My guess is even after those responsible are convicted you will remain in denial
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#10088 May 10, 2012
Lol-Yes, There sure is someone that doesn't know the FACTS--But hang in there-as they are going to come to light pretty soon now--and NO I don't think you will be seeing The Justice Dept. taking over these cases-as there would be No need to--and as far as your perception of what I am thinking -or believe-It doesn't matter-I do not care who is arrested -or who the Occk could or maybe-I only care that it is the right person-I guess you are lost in that concept though-There are not 15 bodies connected with the Occk killings-I'm not saYING THERE ARE NOT 15 BODIES--as there could be-But I am saying -there is no cult-there is no Satanic ritual-connected with the four Occk victim~ and BOB is full of S----My god do you not realize how stupid and nuttie you all sound--Why didn't BOB do a little digging on his own-over these 6 yrs-Well he will need to contact me for a map-as the bodies are not going to be where he thinks they should be- This haS ALL BEEN LOOKED INTO-YEARS AND YEARS AGO--AND NO YOUR GUESS WILL BE WRONG -AS i AM NOT IN DENIAL NOR WILL i BE-AT THE MOST YOU WILL COME UP WITH-IS A COUPLE OF CHILD MOLESTERS WILL BE ARRESTED-BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT-You seem to for get I didn't just get involved in these cases-I have never been wrong in this case yet-and I have went thru a lot of BS-and I have come up smelling like a rose-because I am really good at this secret squirrel stuff-
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#10089 May 10, 2012
Hey BOB-Can I still sign up for doing an Interview with you??? Your Attorney says Until the 11th-I think I still have 10 min. left~*Detroit attorney Paul Hughes will schedule media interviews with Bob, a confidential source, until Friday, May 11, 2012 that will occur the week of May 14th. Bob said: "These are the only interviews I will provide until the suspects are arrested."~

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#10090 May 10, 2012
CWW wrote:
Hi Lil,
Good to see you're still at it with questions and observations. I still value your input.
Ditto!**WAVE**

:)
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#10091 May 10, 2012
Hey BOB,There is a clue in this message-"Gray said they have nearly 26,000 documented investigations as part of the case, including the 1979 disappearance of 11-year-old Kimberly King from Warren, Mich.

"I haven't officially added her, but I have to be open," he said. "During that time there were eight other missing kids.

"We're investigators.(The case) gets cold and hot. It peaks and valleys. If I was a parent of one of the children, and police didn't do it, I'd be disappointed."

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#10092 May 10, 2012
FACTS wrote:
From Bob:
Ms. Dagner
Unfortunately you fail to grasp the facts and efforts made to develop a relationship with Oakland County.
And those facts & efforts are...?
FACTS wrote:
Even someone such as yourself that has limited knowledge of the relevant suspects and evidence associated with these cases should understand that after 35 years they have failed to solve any of these child killings.
A person's level of expertise about OCCK suspects and evidence doesn't seem very relevant to understanding that these murders remain unsolved. Mine is minimal, yet that's obvious to me. Was there a point to this?
FACTS wrote:
An intelligent person would understand that there are concerns with the historical activities associated with these investigations.
I don't understand what this is supposed to refer to - not because of my ignorance of "historical activities", but because this sentence is incoherent.
FACTS wrote:
If any one on this board is sincerely interested in bringing to justice those responsible for the killings of at least 15 individuals. Then your time would be best spent demanding that Jessica Cooper turn these cases over to the D.O.J.
Ok, I'm sincerely interested, so...I DEMAND that Jessica Cooper turn these cases over to the D.O.J.- but I predict she will ignore me. I'd expect a $100 million lawsuit to be a much stronger voice & argument than I could mount. If that doesn't persuade her, why would she be moved by our demands?

I'm not mocking the idea that you might actually possess info upon which lefitimate charges against someone, for something, could be laid. Perhaps you do, we shall see I guess. I'm led to believe, by the media, that you've never spelled out: charge whom, and for what? to anyone.

The Federal level of government is capable of 'seizing' jurisdiction over OCCK or any other criminalcase, I believe, if they feel local authorities are corrupted or obstructing the justice process. Have you submitted a brief, to DOJ yourself? If not, why not? You seem to be implying that you possess knowledge of active obstruction sufficient to convince DOJ to take control, so where's the problem?
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#10093 May 10, 2012
Yep-this is where the problem is~"The Federal level of government is capable of 'seizing' jurisdiction over OCCK or any other criminalcase, I believe, if they feel local authorities are corrupted or obstructing the justice process. Have you submitted a brief, to DOJ yourself? If not, why not? You seem to be implying that you possess knowledge of active obstruction sufficient to convince DOJ to take control, so where's the problem?" *The problem is-that he has nothing on Jessica--except his hate for her- There is NO lost Evidence-There is no Cover-up...and you will be shocked -when you see and hear the investigation -that has gone on with these cases-
Notles

Warren, MI

#10094 May 10, 2012
I don't know how many times I have to tell you guys, Helen knows what is going on.
Lilly

Denver, CO

#10095 May 11, 2012
I am not attacking only asking some questions. I think it would help everyone to understand this a little better if we understood the reason for such anonymity.

Quite obviously the authorities know who Bob is. I imagine the families do too. And I understand that at the end of the day it really is their private business. But these are very public cases and the public has been involved on many levels over the past three decades and are now being asked to help fund this effort with donations. And of course as always with any information they may have to offer.

As we know, much of the information that has surfaced over these many years has been a direct result of someone coming forward and then someone else in the public connecting that person or information to other information. If the public knows who Bob is, maybe there are others that would be spurred to come forward too.

Wouldn’t it help that effort as well as the fund raising to know who it is that is talking? And essentially because of him talking, the public is being told this is huge and the needed funds will be going to a good cause and to finally solve these murders.

Before people part with their money and their trust shouldn’t they know who this person is and decide based on that if this is a credible person and one they should support? Time and effort is one thing, parting with one’s money is a whole other kettle of fish.

I guess that brings me back to the questions. Why such anonymity?
Is it because of danger?
And if so, then hasn’t it already been established that Bob says that he can name corrupt officials in high places and wouldn’t those involved already know who he is and that he is talking? So why hide?
Wouldn’t bringing him into the public eye make him safer?
Once everyone knows who he is, it would make it more difficult to harm him to shut him up without outing themselves? And wouldn’t that have already been tried since 2010?

I know this is a hugely emotional set of circumstances. But Bob and his representatives are asking for money and trust. I think they need to give something in return. I think they need to at least let possible contributors know who they are backing, and based on that very crucial information make an informed decision. Right now I think people are not willing to bet on blind trust – someone they know nothing about.
Show yourself. Bob, please.
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#10096 May 11, 2012
Dear "BOB", I hate to bust your bubble-However someone needs to speak up-I'm sure everyone-can see who has limited knowledge-You didn't even know when the prosecutor started the Oakland County Grand Jury-and certainly it should be mention-that you didn't even have the knowledge to Inform the Attorney,that there was in fact DNA and forensic evident s that matched the 4 occk victims-and then this coming up with the reason" they"-who ever they maybe-started burying the bodies-and the reason you gave -was taken from one of my posts on Tims abduction and drop off-However that is not the only thing you have snatched off the Internet and combined in your presentation-I'm going to hang on to my work product where that is concerned-as I'm sure before we ever get any proof out of you-I will need it-And your right BOB intelligence does play a part in your presentation-and certainly you are lacking in that area-because if you had any you would realize that-you are loosing the public ear on this-you will not last much longer...with out strutting your stuff-and I think you should make yourselves aware of the fact-that not all serial killer cases are solved-you can check that out when your trolling for your Information on the Internet-Now I will give you three points-for coming up with your plan-to discredit the Oakland County Prosecutor 6 months before the election-However-I don't think it will work-even on Topix -there are some pretty sharp posters on here-that do not believe any of your -un proven facts about these cases-"Anyone suggesting that this information be turned over to Jessica Cooper under the circumstances must have an IQ below 30." Why you said that-is a mystery to me,unless you have now put the reading of minds in your act-and lets talk about this BOB-"To me that only demonstrates that you are a sad example of a human being" yep you with your dangling carrot-who says you have had your Info for 6 years-but have not come forward until now-in a child serial murder case -that is going on 36yrs old?? Now I have to ask-what are you using for a brain-and how sad an example of a human being -are you??.BOB If you want my backing-YOU NEED TO SHOW SOME PROOF-And you don't seem to understand that-your story- just doesn't pass the smell test-It is like your dangling carrot-It is dying....
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#10097 May 11, 2012
GREAT POST lILLY!!!
just-thinking

Jackson, MI

#10098 May 11, 2012
Dear Bob, Have you met Gum Shoe? She's not sharing either.
FACTS

Petoskey, MI

#10102 May 12, 2012
Ms. Dagner,

Seems you missed this media report:

Ike McKinnon is mentioned in the lawsuit. Two years ago, McKinnon put authorities in touch with a mystery man who knew a lot about the Oakland County Child Killer case.

"After this meeting he stopped calling," McKinnon said. "Maybe we lost a

person who had a great deal of information."

Unlike you Ms. Dagner, Mr. McKinnon was in charge of the Detroit Sex Crimes Unit at the time, and knew first hand what was going on in these cases.

Considering the fact that only after Mr. McKinnon and Bob had several conversations related to information no one in the public is aware of, or information that investigators were not aware of, did he contact officials from the Oakland County Prosecutor and Sheriff’s Office and urge them to attend this meeting. Which surprise, surprise, they did.

So according to an ignorant individual, who will remain nameless Ms. Dagner, who knows nothing about the new suspects and evidence developed. Your explanation as to why a former chief of police, who was directly involved in these cases, sets up a meeting at his office that was so unimportant that two high ranking officials from Oakland County decided to attend because Walton and McCabe had nothing better to do that day?

How many meetings have you had with any Chief of Police, Walton, and McCabe? Yes, you are so right; these people dropped everything to attend this meeting because there was nothing else for them to do that day.

And I would imagine in your world someone going on the record such as McKinnon, who was not only at the meeting but was advised of certain information prior to the meeting that caused him to set up this meeting, would go on the record with this statement:

"After this meeting he stopped calling," McKinnon said. "Maybe we lost a person who had a great deal of information."

Bob may have stopped calling because of the lies conveyed by McCabe and Walton at this meeting, but never stopped pursuing this matter.

Ms. Dagner, my guess is that when you die Geraldo will be there when they open up your skull during the autopsy. The only difference is when they open up your skull there will be no surprises when all they find is “dirt, lots of unoccupied space, and several missing brain cells.”

It is suggested that you leave the investigating to the professionals, keep your uninformed and ridiculous speculations as it relates to these cases to yourself, and find a pastime that is better suited for you.

One such as shaking your head and trying to figure out how many marbles you have lost.

To say your assertions and opinions come from a world that only exists in what is left of your mind would be an extreme understatement.

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