Since: Mar 07

Detroit, MI

#6584 Aug 5, 2011
Helen Dagner wrote:
<quoted text>Well Les Sex life seems to be going well~
His right or his left hand?
Les

Warren, MI

#6585 Aug 5, 2011
DETROIT wrote:
<quoted text>His right or his left hand?
If I say with the right hand I will be accused of being the killer.
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6586 Aug 6, 2011
You are witnessing the death of a forum-Amen~
Les

Warren, MI

#6587 Aug 6, 2011
What you are witnessing is the death of 9,997 suspects.
Reasoning

Sterling Heights, MI

#6588 Aug 6, 2011
Les wrote:
What you are witnessing is the death of 9,997 suspects.
Hey Tom. I wonder how many of them are named Gary.
Les

Warren, MI

#6589 Aug 6, 2011
In the last few days I have read a poster’s question why we are talking about the OCCK on a Jon Bene Ramsey site. When I found this site I typed in Oakland County Child Killer Forums and this site popped up. As far as I can tell this is a OCCK site. It just happens to be in a site opened by someone interested in the Jon Bene Ramsey case.
I have been accused of trying to grand stand and just get attention to my lonely life. I have been accused of getting off the subject matter. The subject matter is dieing because very little information is being leaked to the public. Every one on the site is hoping to read the posts and find new information especially if it enhances a match to their favorite suspect.
Yes, two sites that I previously posted on were “politely” warned to shut down. No reason given. But the sites at the peak of their exsistance. It did result in me getting hauled in to the task forces office, but my interview was not aimed at solving the crime. It was aimed at shutting me up. The task forced talked to two witnesses, a close friend of Gary’s and he mother. They were not on my witness list that I presented to the task force. The close friend denied knowing anything and the mother said I was a liar seeking revenge on her family. Detective Gray did search the garage attic in question but Gary’s mother had ordered it cleaned out a week before when she heard that there may be some damaging evidence there. Despite the garage being cleaned out Detective Gray did find evidence still remaining in the trash. He made a public statement that it was a good tip. That was it. Detective Gray placed Gary as his number three suspect years after Detective Anger through my 20 pages of evidence in the trash.
Other than that Detective Gray waited for me to deliver a key piece of evidence that my wife had destroyed in a rage and a cover up of her own. She told Kdogg that she had indeed destroyed the evidence. All I knew was that I could not find it. Gray felt that I must being lying about that piece of evidence. Instead of simply giving me a polygraph test he chose to tell me I was not credible.
That was a far as we got. Despite massive evidence that connected Gary to the OCCK case Detective Gray decided to not talk to my witnesses and not issue any polygraph tests and not conduct any DNA tests. I was #5 and he did not ask me for a swab sample. He ordered Detectives from Wayne County to discontinue communication with me. He even halted a polygraph exam that was been planned. There was a list of about 100 questions that could be asked of me. Gray’s behavior seemed to as if he was afraid I was telling the truth and that would throw some kind of monkey wrench in his gravy train. He traveled the country doing interviews, doing polygraph tests and getting DNA samples when I was sitting in his office jumping up and down asking for a polygraph test. Gary called Kdogg months after my interview and asked him “do you think Les is telling the truth?” Polygraph man. Polygraph. How much simpler can it get?
Les

Warren, MI

#6590 Aug 6, 2011
You can asked yourself what kind of person would wait such a long time to come forward and why? I am trying to convey that to this group but obviously some people are too simple and narrow minded to make the connection based on my posts that reflect my personality and my lifestyle.
I happen to know for a fact that authorities read these forum posts. I have been contacted by them. They have not told me to shut up yet. Why am I the last guy standing that insists that this case is easily solvable? Is it possible that some people are hoping and praying this case does not get solved?
Here is all I know about the favorite suspect Chris Busch.
Some internet sites are using the timing of Busch’s death as evidence that he was the killer. Gary committed suicide even closer to the end of the killings than Busch.
One site connected Busch because he had a white terrier dog. Gary’s terrier dog matched two color of hairs on the victims and the detectives are saying “so what” to me.
Busch is connected because Gunnels hair is a 1% match. That is about equivalent to making a person a suspect because they have red hair. If the killer had not acted alone someone would have came forward a long time ago or talked about time.
Chris Busch passed a state police issued polygraph test that he knew nothing about the OCCK children.
Chris Busch was able to name all of the drop off sites. Helen’s John can name all of the drop off sites.
In a Wayne County detectives own words I have provided 100 times more evidence than they have on any other suspect.
I am getting off the subject matter?
I am just rambling on about nothing? How simple minded are some of you people?
Les

Warren, MI

#6591 Aug 6, 2011
There it goes again. My previous post before the last one disappeared. I will wait a few hours and repost it if it does not shown up.
Les

Warren, MI

#6592 Aug 6, 2011
Sorry that I did not read my posts for typos.
Hopefully you will not be confused by them.
Les

Warren, MI

#6593 Aug 6, 2011
I just glanced over posters names over the past 4 years. It looks like lots of posters got tired of coming back long before my rambling nothingness.
Les

Warren, MI

#6594 Aug 6, 2011
Is this a record that I have done 6 posts in a row?
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

#6595 Aug 6, 2011
Helen Dagner wrote:
You are witnessing the death of a forum-Amen~
Requiem for the forum:

There is no way that the following three men are not involved/have or had knowledge:

Christopher Brian Busch
John Hastings
John McKinney

There is no way that James Vincent Gunnels, a victim, is not withholding information.

There is no way that his younger brother does not have relevant information about Christopher Busch.

There is no way that money did not change hands to get that fat f*** Chris Busch get low bail and probation in no fewer than FOUR criminal sexual conduct cases, allowing him to roam the streets and victimize hundreds of children.(Regardless of involvement in child murders.)

There is no way Oakland County police departments and many officers did not know the name and reputation of pedophile son of General Motors big wig, Bloomfield Village resident, H. Lee Busch in the mid to late-1970’s.“We know who he is, ma’am, there’s nothing we can do. Just don’t let your kids go to Pembroke Park alone.”

There is no way task force members Pierce and Davis, who responded to the Busch "suicide" scene don’t know WTF the deal was at the Busch “suicide" scene.

There is no way two of Chris Busch’s nephews don’t know more than they are saying.

There is no way those same two men didn’t throw James Vincent Gunnels under the bus with Chris Busch.(Rot in Hell, boys.)

There is no way these crimes were the “clean,”“diabolical” work of a methodical serial killer. That’s what the task force wanted you to believe—no evidence; too hard to solve; we did our best; get lost. You should see the documents listing the evidence they found on these bodies.

There is no way Oakland County has clean hands in this investigation, or that they will present an accurate picture to their grand jury.

There is no way the OCP will not throw every piece of sh** up on the wall, hoping that nothing sticks. How do you look at yourselves in the mirror?!

There is no way one grand jury can spend adequate time on some 30 unsolved crimes AND one of the most complex, corrupt investigations/crimes in Oakland County history. Nice re-election try.

Amen to all people who came forward and told their story, in spite of the pressure not to speak and to get lost. Especially Helen, who went out on a ledge and never backed off. Amen to those who pried-back the lid on this dark, disgusting chapter of Michigan history. Amen to the very, very few in the system who are still digging into this and who truly represent the victims and are fighting those who are hiding behind these heinous crimes and the cover-up. And Amen to the few people out there are truly voices for the four kids who were kidnapped, kept alive, tortured, terrorized, sexually assaulted and raped, murdered and dumped like garbage. The asses of those who are scared of being exposed have nothing on the victims of these crimes. Cowards.

These crimes cried out for a resolution. It did not happen, and it probably won't. But it is indefensible that the many plausible leads discussed on this thread were NEVER exhausted. And some of us know why. How do any of these people live with themselves?!

There is no way the MSP or the OCP should not feel dirty for their handling of these cases. But they won’t. They had their chance to step away from their predecessors. But, in true disgusting form, they didn’t. Blame the victims. It’s the easiest route.

RIP, Topix OCCK forum, on the JonBenet Ramsey forum. Some good was served. Even freaks are allowed their opinion. The First Amendment is still an amazing thing, even if it takes an incredible effort to wade through the b.s. Perhaps few on this forum had ill intent. But without the internet, we would not have connected and would not have made this information and discussion available around the world. We did what we could. That much I am sure of.
Les

Warren, MI

#6596 Aug 6, 2011
Requiem for the forum:
There is no way that the following three men are not involved/have or had knowledge:
Christopher Brian Busch
John Hastings
John McKinney
There is no way that James Vincent Gunnels, a victim, is not withholding information.
There is no way that his younger brother does not have relevant information about Christopher Busch.

I tried to follow your post. The use of double negatives left me a bit confused. Are you saying that Busch, Hastings and McKinney were all involved in the OCCK?
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6597 Aug 6, 2011
Les-No one has problems following Cathy's post-Here is something for you to work on-(Could a local Investigator be the Oakland County Child Killer??-it is now claimed that Jack the Ripper was the very detective who led the hunt for the killer.}

Since: Aug 11

San Antonio, TX

#6598 Aug 6, 2011
Involved and/or had knowledge.....I would imagine sick bastards such as these guys hung in a pretty tight circle. A country club of sick freaks.

But I would say that law enforcement from MSP and Oakland County are just as sick and twisted. Refer to mybrotherskeeper's entry.

There are some dirty bastards in law enforcement in Michigan. What a travesty. Let's hope we can count on Wayne County Prosecutor.
Les

Warren, MI

#6599 Aug 6, 2011
Helen Dagner wrote:
Les-No one has problems following Cathy's post-Here is something for you to work on-(Could a local Investigator be the Oakland County Child Killer??-it is now claimed that Jack the Ripper was the very detective who led the hunt for the killer.}
You seem to enjoy speaking for other people. Are you an internet mind reader? Talking about off the wall posts. You are doing a great job of dumbing down this forum yourself.
Les

Warren, MI

#6600 Aug 6, 2011
Justice Denied wrote:
Involved and/or had knowledge.....I would imagine sick bastards such as these guys hung in a pretty tight circle. A country club of sick freaks.
But I would say that law enforcement from MSP and Oakland County are just as sick and twisted. Refer to mybrotherskeeper's entry.
There are some dirty bastards in law enforcement in Michigan. What a travesty. Let's hope we can count on Wayne County Prosecutor.
Just ask yourself why it took 35 years to find white dog hairs on all four victims. They had much technology in the stone ages.
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6601 Aug 6, 2011
Les wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to enjoy speaking for other people. Are you an internet mind reader? Talking about off the wall posts. You are doing a great job of dumbing down this forum yourself.
-Les,I have history with this forum-I also have history with the Oakland County Child Killer cases-You have No history with this forum-yet you come on here all guns drawn and shooting off the wall in a blaze of glory-But where were you for all these past years?-Your story just doesn't wash-and then you try to bring Kdogg in as an expert-and everyone here knows better than that-If you were posting short post with your info-maybe it would be tolerated-But these long post of yours and Dan's -with info not related to the investigation as it is today-Are mind killers to those of us who are on OCCK Info overload-
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6602 Aug 6, 2011
Les wrote:
<quoted text>
Just ask yourself why it took 35 years to find white dog hairs on all four victims. They had much technology in the stone ages.
It didn't take them 35 years to find the dog hair it was there from day one-It just took them 35 yrs to do something about it-
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

#6603 Aug 6, 2011
It did NOT take 35 years to find dog hairs on the victims. You have not seen the documents provided as a result of the FOIA request. Those animal hairs, as well as fibers, were found on the victims, as well as cat hairs on Tim King. The cops made it seem like there was no trace evidence whatsoever. That's the story they sold so they could sell their story of how it was impossible to solve these crimes because (a) no one came forward to tell what they knew and (b) they had no evidence to work with (bullsh**). They didn't do sh** to isolate these animal hairs until their tit was in the wringer. Yes, they are dog hairs. They had that sh**, which was part of the basis for the search warrant of the Busch home duct work. Like I said, they had plenty of evidence that no one ever heard of--but the 1976/77 documents prove they had it THEN, not that it was manufactured. Dirt, hairs, fibers, blood--even semen evidence in Mark's case, according to the documentation from back in the day. The kids clothing was not cleaned and pressed--it was as if their clothing had been taken from the when they were held captive and then they were redressed after death. It wasn't pristine--it was clean enough that it was clear the kids had not worn the clothing the entire time during their captivity. A lot of urban legends, which benefitted the MSP and backed up their story that the case was impossible to solve. Gee whiz.

And wait until I find the sh** about the drawing of the screaming boy found in Busch's bedroom. Mr. Hastings has some interesting things to say about that in an interview (nice try, buddy), as do Mr. Busch's nephews, who saw that godda** thing hanging on his bedroom wall well BEFORE he supposedly offed himself. Before--as in, not taped up after he was offed in order to frame him. A sick drawing like that taped up on his bedroom wall (we all know why), which was there for his nephews, parents and cleaning lady to see. Apparently only the nephews noticed it (what kid that age wouldn't--and be horrified by it). Everyone else was oblivious.

Again, those dog hairs did not just "appear" in 2009. They were there in 1976 and 1977. And, like many things in the autopsies of those four poor kids, the info was not reported in the media.

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