The Oakland County Child Killer
Les

Warren, MI

#6548 Aug 2, 2011
Now it appears. How is it that it took longer for my first post than my second post. Can you delete my second copy? Sorry.
Les

Warren, MI

#6549 Aug 2, 2011
I have just made it halfway through the book Darker Than Night. A guy called in wanting to collect the reward for information leading to the killer or killers. He had a convincing,elaborate, detailed story about a friend that confessed to being with the killer when the two hunters were shot. He claimed he helped bury the bodies.
The police arrested the guy and he admitted he made the whole story up so his friends would think he was tough. He passed a polygraph that he knew nothing about the fate of the hunters.
I do believe their is phenomena where people like to make others think they committed crimes. Mostly to impress that they are no one to be messed with. With 9,998 suspects in the OCCK case there must have been thousands of people that wanted to give the impression that either they were the killer knew who the killer is. But out of 9,998 suspects there must be many people that believe they the only one that is right.
I was surprised recently when I thought I was talking to a detective that had not put his neck on the line for yet another suspect. He told me that everything made public about the OCCK case is only about 30% true. That only the task force knows fact from fiction. I personally believe that his comments were to allow the task force back track and remove facts about the case they do not match up with current suspects. I just cannot fathom that they would put out so much false information.
This detective was fired at one point for not staying on the track that he was told to follow.
That means ignore new leads and focus on one suspect or be fired.
I believe the task force is tired and ready to give up. Probably with bad economic conditions they are being told to wrap this thing up. Wikapedia is now calling Chris Busch the likely killer.
Their goal now is to close the case and still pacify the victim's families and the public. I can blame myself personally for all this grief because I was selfish and had several opportunities to present proof before and after the killers death. I have very mixed emotions about the path I chose, because I raised my children into adulthood before my family structure exploded. On the other hand I could have sacrified my family early for the good of many other people. I want to say I am sorry for the most part but when I think of my children being raised without me, I am not sorry.

Since: Mar 07

Detroit, MI

#6550 Aug 2, 2011
LES, I CAN SEE WHY YOU`RE NUMBER 5 ON THE SUSPECT LIST. The OCCK killer molested the boys only and you talk about having been attempted assaulted when you were young and then what happened to you own son. Statistically, I`m sure that those who have been molested are more likely to be molestors themselves. This would cause the anger to possibly cause the OCCK murders. Also statistically according to studies, the one turning in the killer is in fact very often the real killer himself. Feeling as if you`re dirty because of what happened to you would also be a good reason to wash and redress the OCCK kids.
You haven`t said whether the painter backed up what you said to the police. Did he?
As for your brother in law, say that he was banging an underage girl that he met someplace. Would he want his friends to see that? Would he want witnesses? Naturally he wouldn`t let them in the cottage. He wouldn`t answer the door until they went away. Certainly he didn`t want to go to jail and the more people that know things, the more likely things are to slip. Maybe he just didn`t want anyone to tell Susan.
Then if police give you a photo lineup, how many girls are likely to have the same color hair and be skinny with bad teeth. The odds of you picking Jane even if she wasn`t the girl in the photo would be pretty high.
Les

Warren, MI

#6551 Aug 2, 2011
DETROIT wrote:
LES, I CAN SEE WHY YOU`RE NUMBER 5 ON THE SUSPECT LIST. You haven`t said whether the painter backed up what you said to the police. Did he?
This is something that really sticks in my craw. I gave the police the painter's phone number in Tennessee and to the best of my knowledge they did not talk to the painter. Kdogg talked to most of my witnesses and told the investigators that all of my witnesses reflected what I was saying. Even Kdogg did not talk to the painter. That is the only thing about Kdogg that really disappoints me.
You are the first person that has implied that painters testimony is significant. He can verify the time of year, Gary's state of mind, the urgency, the make and color of the car he painted, the color he painted it, and that Gary did not care about the quality of the paint job. He can also basically describe the car Gary was driving as a small blue car with a large side strip. He can help establish that Gary was trying to keep me from connecting the blue Gremlin to the priest by testifying that the small blue car belonged to the priest.

You have to be a very narrow minded person to feel that the painters testimony is not significant. The testimony of the painter could also be established by issuing me a polygraph. The painter is in poor health and they need to talk to him soon if ever.
just-thinking

Jackson, MI

#6552 Aug 2, 2011
What good would his testimony be if you tell him all the right answers here?
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6553 Aug 2, 2011
You have now enter the Twilight Zone-
just-thinking

Jackson, MI

#6554 Aug 2, 2011
I was going to say that too.
Les

Warren, MI

#6555 Aug 2, 2011
just-thinking wrote:
What good would his testimony be if you tell him all the right answers here?
I am assuming your question is aimed at me.
First of all I have no idea why the painter would lie for me. He has nothing to gain. Second of all there were dozens of witnesses that know Gary had his full sized green four door sedan painted white. That in itself is a remarkable coincidence that enhances Gary as a suspect.
Third, that is what polygraphs are for. Now we can have two people verify what I have stated about the paint job and the circumstances surrounding it. Just by the nature of your question it implies to me that you feel the truth in this matter of the painter's testimony is significant. I am almost flattered by your question.
Les

Warren, MI

#6556 Aug 3, 2011
DETROIT wrote:
LES, I CAN SEE WHY YOU`RE NUMBER 5 ON THE SUSPECT LIST. As for your brother in law, say that he was banging an underage girl that he met someplace. Would he want his friends to see that? Would he want witnesses? Naturally he wouldn`t let them in the cottage. He wouldn`t answer the door until they went away. Certainly he didn`t want to go to jail and the more people that know things, the more likely things are to slip. Maybe he just didn`t want anyone to tell Susan.
Just thought I would answer some of your questions. Gary had a 14 year old girlfriend in Warren. Her name was Connie. She was extremely pretty. She looked like Barabra Edan. She would follow Gary like a puppy dog and he enjoyed ordering her around. Connie's parents knew she had a 22 year old boyfriend and they kept close tabs on her. They made her come home when the street lights come on. Gary certainly was not a ashamed of having a child as a girlfriend. Their relationship was very public. After Gary's death I tried tactfully to get her to tell me to what degree her and Gary were intimate. She told me it was not open for discussion.
angelwings

Canton, MI

#6557 Aug 3, 2011
Helen Dagner wrote:
You have now enter the Twilight Zone-
If you are the author of the Danger Post and the real Helen Danger, who do you feel is the OCCK? Do you feel that John McKinney is a viable suspect? Are there any true facts out there as to the drawing found at Busch's death site as to who drew it; word has it that Chris Busch was not an artist? I am just interested in facts not lengthy stories that have nothing to do with the current investigation.
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6558 Aug 3, 2011
I am not the real Helen Dagner...
Les

Warren, MI

#6559 Aug 4, 2011
Helen Dagner wrote:
I am not the real Helen Dagner...
And then the eerie silence..........

Since: Mar 07

Detroit, MI

#6560 Aug 4, 2011
How are you today Les? I can see where you`ve been through many of the same things that I have including being accused of being a serial killer by law Enforcement. Cops don`t believe you but yet they don`t fully investigate your sources. It`s frustrating. Also I`ve known several killers as you describe, some since teen years. Which six cases are you referring to that you have knowledge about? If you prefer I can contact you via email to discuss that.
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6561 Aug 4, 2011
Detroit Dan said-"Which six cases are you referring to that you have knowledge about? If you prefer I can contact you via email to discuss that." (Yes Dan,Please contact him by email).....

Since: Mar 07

Detroit, MI

#6562 Aug 4, 2011
Helen Dagner wrote:
Detroit Dan said-"Which six cases are you referring to that you have knowledge about? If you prefer I can contact you via email to discuss that." (Yes Dan,Please contact him by email).....
Actually Kdogg said Les has a very credible story and he`s not telling a dear JOHN story like you are!!! If Les wants me to email him, I`m sure that he`ll tell me.
Les

Warren, MI

#6563 Aug 4, 2011
DETROIT wrote:
How are you today Les? I can see where you`ve been through many of the same things that I have including being accused of being a serial killer by law Enforcement. Cops don`t believe you but yet they don`t fully investigate your sources. It`s frustrating. Also I`ve known several killers as you describe, some since teen years. Which six cases are you referring to that you have knowledge about? If you prefer I can contact you via email to discuss that.
If some does not want to read it they are free to ignore.

A guy named Ken Tranchida murdered a Oakland University student, Tina Biggars. I was friends with Ken's brother, Dave Tranchida. We worked together in Royal Oak. We had lunch together every day while they were searching for Tina Biggar. Tips from Dave led to her body.

A woman doctor was abducted from a Birmingham MI parking structure. She was found dead in Macomb County. Anitra Coomer was convicted of the murder. I was having a long time affair with Anitra Coomer's mother Kathy Coomer.

In 1974 I lived next door to a woman, Linda Mathis, who later married and divorced. During the course of Linda Mathis being single, married and divorced her and I carried on an affair. She later married Tom Knight, a popular radio DJ in Detroit. After she married the second time Linda broke off our affair. Linda and her brother were convicted of murdering Tom Knight.

As I had already told you I was very close friends with Eileen Seltz.
We lived together in Warren in 1973. Although I never had intercourse with her we were very intimate with each other. Nudity was the norm.
She married my best friend. They eventually divorced and she lived and mothered two children with JR Duvall. JR who was convicted of killing the two missing deer hunters as reported in the book "Darker than Night". Eileen remarried and despite the fact that JR wanted Eileen dead for knowing that he killed the two missing deer hunters and the fact it happened near JR's home Eileen's husband was convicted of the her murder. It was proved that Eileen was strangled
and ran over in the road to make it look like an accident. The guy that ran over her was JR's friend but for some reason the jury felt that her husband was guilty. They called her Seitz in the book but her name was Seltz.

A black family was being racially harassed in a Downriver neighborhood. The father of the family hid in the bushes and shot the perpetrator who was standing in the back of a moving pick up truck. The man shot survived his wounds but the black man was charged and found not guilty of attempted murder. The white guy that was shot was my wife's first cousin. This was a high profile case at the time.

In 1975, on the day that Jimmy Hoffa disappeared from at or near a restaurant on Maple Road, I was driving east on 15 Mile road approaching Van Dyke. I shot a glance at the passenger in the car traveling the same direction to my left side. He looked like my boss and did a double take. It was not him so I kept driving. Suddenly the guy was yelling and telling me to pull over. I ignored them and suddenly they used their car to force me over and stop me. The passenger had a nasally bully type voice. He asked me why I looked at him. I realized that they were mafia types and they thought I saw something or recognized them. I told him I mistook him for someone else. The passenger said something to the driver and the driver said something back. Then he said OK you can go. As they spend off I noted that the car was a red Mercury Marquis.
When the news broke of Hoffa's disappearance and they flashed a picture of Anthony Giacalone on the screen, I recognized Giacalone as the passenger in the car that I had my run in with. Eventually in the news they talked about Chuckie O'brian's car being a red Mercury Marquis.

Now can we add one another case?

Les

Warren, MI

#6564 Aug 4, 2011
DETROIT wrote:
<quoted text>Actually Kdogg said Les has a very credible story and he`s not telling a dear JOHN story like you are!!! If Les wants me to email him, I`m sure that he`ll tell me.
Children, children lets behave. Talking about credibility I probably lost it after my last post.LOL.
Les

Warren, MI

#6565 Aug 4, 2011
DETROIT wrote:
How are you today Les? I can see where you`ve been through many of the same things that I have including being accused of being a serial killer by law Enforcement. Cops don`t believe you but yet they don`t fully investigate your sources. It`s frustrating. Also I`ve known several killers as you describe, some since teen years. Which six cases are you referring to that you have knowledge about? If you prefer I can contact you via email to discuss that.
OOPS I forgot one. The Redford Babysitter Killer.
He is the guy that murdered a baby sitter across the street on New Years Eve. He intended on only raping the baby sitter but she put such a fight that he killed without the rape. A huge manhunt was organized to find him. My brother in law (wife's sister's husband) was a best friend and also suspected of at least being an accomplish.
The killer drove up north to a secluded area, parked his car, walked down a tree row, sat down against a tree and shot himself.They did not discover his body until spring. My brother in law was under constant surviellance as they searched for the killer.

I remember when these sites used to trade recipes. Anyone care for my French toast recipe?
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6566 Aug 4, 2011
And only God knows that Kdogg would have the knowledge to form an accurate opinion on anything-to do with any of these cases-do you think any of us have forgotten -Dan-Les and Kdogg on the long ago defunct Yahoo group? I don't think so-and now your trying to make this site the same way-Just shaking my pretty Blond Head~
Helen Dagner

Petoskey, MI

#6567 Aug 4, 2011
Les said-"I remember when these sites used to trade recipes. Anyone care for my French toast recipe?" * Your going to have to give away a lot more than a recipe for people to read these long rambling posts-you sound like your really lonely...But they have forums for that too-

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