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Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

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#5967
Jun 6, 2011
 

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Not. Going. Away.

34, 35-year-old cases and we are not moving to the back of the line again.

Time's up. Put your pencils down and let's see what you've got.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

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#5968
Jun 7, 2011
 

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A cold case is solved by going back to the very beginning.

Very beginning? Chris Busch, Greg Green, John Hastings, John McKinney. All on the radar screen early on. Don't complain now about needing more time to pull this together.
cody

Southfield, MI

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#5969
Jun 7, 2011
 

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I think about this case in my sleep now......
There are no new suspects.
Have all of the current ones "really" been tested and ruled out ?
Sometimes I think this case is solved ?
That for some reason they're hiding more than we think ? Much more ?
All the info coming in to the family is via the news and small law suits. Not from great police work or investigations.
I know you keep finding tib-bits ? Like you said -"What Ponitac" was looked at ? You didn't know about the hairs on Kristine's shirt ?
They were never going to tell you any of this.
"If" Gunnels hair is a mito DNA match, what does that really mean ? It only leads to Busch's car, maybe ? If it lead any further, he'd be locked up ? It does point to Busch in a way. But, nothing conclusive.
Is there a next step to be taken ? Or are we stuck here ?

Grayfield

Ashburn, VA

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#5970
Jun 7, 2011
 

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Allen
While the killings were occuring a Dr. Bruce L. Danto, a local psychiatrist got involved with the Oakland County Child Killer case. Danto began talking in interviews in the local newspapers about his thoughts and opinions on the killer. It's believed that the killer may have tried to establish contact with him some how with the dumping of the third confirmed victim. Kristine Mihelich's body had been found on the side of a road called Bruce Lane a theory was that the killer picked that road because Danto's name was Bruce L. Danto (L in this case being used as Lane). So then Danto began trying to talk to the killer in the papers to try to get him to turn himself in. Danto eventually received a letter from someone claiming to be the accomplice of the killer. It is thought that possibly either an accomplice, or maybe even the killer himself wrote this letter, possibly even as an attempt to toy with police. Below is the contents of the letter, exactly as it was written.
On the envelope was typed first this message
MOST VERY IMPORTANT MOST URGENT PLEASE.
Dr. Danto
I am dsperite and nearly gone crazy and havnt got no place left to turn. I am going to comit suicide if you cant help me. Please dont give up the killer to the police. You must help me as there is no one else I cant turn to. This is for real I know who the killer is, I live with him I am his slave. He whips me and beats me all the time. And he will kill me if he finds out that I have written this letter. I have been with him in his car when we go out looking for boys but I swear I have never never never been with him when he picks up the ones he killed But I amin it in it so deep I am just as juilty to the law as he is I stayed with them here here right here in our apartment during the day while he is working. That makes me just as guilty. And no one can hear them as they gagged all the time. You know he brings them in stuffed inclothes hamper no one here knows the differences. You keep saying Oakland county not true. He has delivery rout in Oakland and Birmingham places but we live in detroit. You want to know people in this building? Primps and hookers and fags, you name it. Like on Gremlin he had it sure Grimlin until last boy but no one stops him in Detroit. He junk it out in Ohio to never be found ever. I tell you what makes him do it it Vietnam, we there together, Frank and me, oh Frank not his real name I call him that here. Nam screw up your mindtoo. Tell you something else he killed lots of little kids then with medals for it. Burned them to death bombed them with napalm it's real becautiful there doc. He wants the rich people like people in Birmingham to suffer like all of us suffered to get nothing back for what we did for out country. Hes not a monster like you think he really loves children especially that little girl for 3 weeks not doing it because he hates childrens but doing it because he hates everybody else out there and this be his way to get even and get back at everybody.
But I cannot do it any more he says he wonts but I just know he is going to kill some more. I swear I had no idea no idea he going to kill that first little boy the one with blond colored hair. I shouldn8t ever never helped but trapped too late helped him stay uncaught, I am just as guilty as he is. I cant go on like this I fell I like to die.
Grayfield

Ashburn, VA

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#5971
Jun 7, 2011
 

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I will turn him in if you will swearnto help me. I dont want any of reward I am so afraid if I turn him in I be killed or do forever to jail for what so something I didn8t want to or didn't start. If you be real doctor you must help me. If you promise and what really promise that you not punish me like you call it immuty I meeting with you this Sunday night, I swear, I swear I tell you all of it everything I have to tell someone have to tell someone. Please please please not print this in paper he Frank kill me. I am his slave and he owns me like whatever he wants almost killed me once. I be only one alive know it him. Nobody else know. I so scared all the time policeman come to door never happen. He say we never be caught but I am scared to die. I be guilty too. I not ge be call you araid police trace all your calls back to here. But if you will onluy please please help me help me and promise me not to go to jail in writing I tell you all of it everything everything and it all be over. I never never want it to be like this with little children dead. If you will help me please please. There be no toher hope. You tell me it be all right with code in sunday papers, this sunday, news freepress. You do like other letter you write on front page of papers this sunday, it be to say, Weather beuau say Trees Bloom in 3 weeks, I know you get my letter and understdna. It mean I can trust you. I set up meeting with you, no more little childrens die. Please help me please. I feel so bad like garbage not deserve to live any more. Maybe I kill self first must get out of this some way. Please help me.
I signed Allen
Grayfield

Ashburn, VA

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#5972
Jun 7, 2011
 

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Shortly after the letter arrived Danto and the police replied to Allen in the local paper leaving a coded message for him, then Allen actually called Danto leaving a place and time. The phone call was actually recorded.
This is the transcript of the phone call.
I want (unintelligible) immunity. I want it by tomorrow night I mean tomorrow 9:00 (unintelligible). You be at Seven Mile and Woodward you know where Gas Station Lounge, you listen to me this only time I'm calling you (unintelligible). You want hang up, you hang up (unintelligible) but this is what I'm telling you (pause). You be Gas Station Lounge tomorrow night at 9:00 with letter from governor of Michigan giving me total immunity in return I give you polaroid pictures proving he kill them (pause). That's all I'm going to say (pause). You be there (pause). This is a bar (pause). Jesus (unintelligible). Gas Station Lounge (pause). You be there (long pause). You no bring police you be there by yourself (pause). You be there 9:00 tomorrow (pause). No it's a bar you stu(unintelligible). You be there 9:00 tomorrow (pause). You no bring police I prove he kill them. That's all I say.
Danto went to the Gas Station lounge just like Allen said, with a cop disguised as a customer with him. The Gas Station as it turned out was a local gay bar. The place was full of young hustlers who were often picked up by older gay men. There was also gay prostitutes out back behind the building. While Danto sat inside chatting with the bar tender, a man with brown hair stepped off the dance floor, and came up behind him and acted like he wanted to talk, but then turned away and went to the bathroom. After he came out, he stared at Danto some more, then he walked over to the cop and asked the cop if he'd like him to buy him a drink. The cop brushed the man off thinking he was just some gay guy trying to pick him up, not realizing that it may have been "Allen". The man then walked out of the bar, never to be seen again. Officially the police state that "Allen" never showed up that night, but they did believe, that that might have been him.
Grayfield

Ashburn, VA

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#5973
Jun 7, 2011
 

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If you believe in the letter being true,Allen must have comitted suicide soon after the bar episode. Frank kept quiet and never abducted for murder again.
Why wasn't the man at the bar followed to learn his ID?
What kind of nationality is Allen, what people talk and write in the fashion of his letter and phone conversation?
He can't be American, so how were he and Frank together in VietNam? Is Allen Vietnamese, and hooked up with Frank while Frank was a G.I. Maybe Frank made it possible for Allen to get to the States somehow and then Allen was so thankful that he did any and everything for Frank.
He said there were poloriod photos, were they just souviniers, or were they sex pics for sale? Police say they never surfaced, but do you trust police?
Frank acted alone to seek revenge because he got nothing back for serving his country. Is that a real motive?
This episode ruined the entire investigation in 1977, the answers to all of the OCCK mystery simply lost forever.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

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#5974
Jun 7, 2011
 

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HD--phenomenal job on the 8 videos on youtube.
just-thinking

Jackson, MI

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#5975
Jun 7, 2011
 

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If everything Helen relates to us about John is true I think he is autistic, smart, and capable of at least playing a part in these killings. I also think he could easily turn off whatever it is that drove him to do this. If he had a close call involving something he fears (captivity is a mortal fear of all autistic people I know) he could force himself to never be in that situation again. Autism confuses many people, because they want to pin down what the person is capable of, what their potential is. Not possible. They could be poor at most things and have a special skill, they could be really not good at much at all, very good at a few things having the same theme, or seem typical, but have a hidden special skill or interest that they can call to use when they want to. Their potential in an area that really captivates them, whether through interest for fun, or any unexplained motivation that has meaning for them can be astronomical. Something else they are passionate about they may never be successful with and it might be a constant source of frustration. Many are seen as docile by everyone, but those that are closest to them. The people who raised him know what sets him off and his siblings would be keenly aware of what makes him tick. This kind of person really needs to be guided through life or at least checked up on often. They can be a danger to themselves and others, but never seem that way until the critical moment. All autistic people are different, but none of them want to appear that way. They can express their frustrations and their passions in extraordinary ways. Did John have childhood friends? Did he associate mostly with adults if given the choice? What the police say about him just being obsessed with the case could also be true if he had access to the information he provided. It could be very easy for him to remember every detail he has been presented with. I know Helen says that is not the case and I believe her.
What Lilly said about this being like pinning sand is true. It is just a theory as are my earlier postings about it possibly being five people with five jobs and different motives, but I tried to approach it by finding a theory that might fit the known evidence instead of fitting pieces into a theory. The most I can hope from stating that theory is that it causes someone with more complete information and more resources for checking things out to think a little differently and accept that the solution may be out of the box. It would be unrealistic to think I am even in the ballpark of being correct, but if it gets people thinking there is the chance it could lead to something helpful. Many people use the term Aspergers. I don't, because they are all autistic and Aspergers is just part of ASDs with nothing that really distinguishes it from autism. When I say autistic I am including the possibility that he may have what some people call Aspergers.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

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#5976
Jun 7, 2011
 

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I don't believe the Allen letter is true. And how convenient that it was sent to Dr. Danto, the very person who insinuated himself into this investigation? In an interview, Chris Busch's older brother stated that Chris moved back to his parents' house to be closer to his attorney and his psychiatrists [plural in transcript]. Danto was probably treating Chris and/or John H. Talk about the inside scoop.

So LE actually put some faith into this Allen letter and the rest of us are crazy freaks? Give me a break. F*ck Allen, Frank and the Vietnam War. And, if you ask me, Dr. Danto.

And damn right there were polaroids. That drawing of a boy screaming found in Chris Busch's room is probably based on a polaroid.

And, as someone pointed out to me, the sickening truth is that guys like Busch have that drawing up over their bed or in their bedroom for one reason. Gratification. Reliving it.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

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#5977
Jun 8, 2011
 

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Hey, it turns out that Helen was 100% right about the cat being next to Tim's body. It was 29 degrees that night; cat was burrowed up next to Tim for warmth. He was in the fetal position; not on his back or face down. More keeps surfacing. So there was cat hair on him as well as dog hair.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

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#5978
Jun 8, 2011
 

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Think this is all spam or that I am clueless? Wait and see.
cody

Southfield, MI

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#5979
Jun 8, 2011
 
This is a lot to respond to ??
I won't even try.....
Wow, as usual.
Question ?? For Grayfield ?
Why the posts about the Allen letters again ?
Did something new turn up on that part of it ?
Allen sounds Cass related. Perhaps ? So, doesn't fit anymore, or does it ?
And I think we passed that by as far as suspects go. But, what motives would Danto have to fake it ? And who was in the bar that night that left ?
I know they never got his name or plate number ? But, there was a man there.
Maybe he was just in the bar and.....well, it was a gay bar....bought them the drinks ?
JustThinking is -- possibly on to a few suspect roles ? Not just one or two men.
Hastings......has he been cleared ? DNA cleared or just talked to ? Talking to someone doesn't clear them ? But, the DNA match - so far - matches someone who knew Busch ? Did Busch know Hastings ?
We knew about the cat on Tim.
Is this leading anyone anywhere ? It's like it's starting over from scratch ?
I'm lost at this point.....
I'm not the spammer by the way.....
Lilly's book, Keepers info, Helen's stuff....etc...who do you think it was ???
Is McKinney out ? Was he cleared or never looked at ?
Tired....Just tired.
cody

Southfield, MI

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#5980
Jun 8, 2011
 
Ok, I did try....to respond to all....too much.
I'm listening to you.
cody

Southfield, MI

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#5981
Jun 8, 2011
 

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Grayfield wrote:
If you believe in the letter being true,Allen must have comitted suicide soon after the bar episode. Frank kept quiet and never abducted for murder again.
Why wasn't the man at the bar followed to learn his ID?
What kind of nationality is Allen, what people talk and write in the fashion of his letter and phone conversation?
He can't be American, so how were he and Frank together in VietNam? Is Allen Vietnamese, and hooked up with Frank while Frank was a G.I. Maybe Frank made it possible for Allen to get to the States somehow and then Allen was so thankful that he did any and everything for Frank.
He said there were poloriod photos, were they just souviniers, or were they sex pics for sale? Police say they never surfaced, but do you trust police?
Frank acted alone to seek revenge because he got nothing back for serving his country. Is that a real motive?
This episode ruined the entire investigation in 1977, the answers to all of the OCCK mystery simply lost forever.
Dude ?? What ?? Why ?
EnoughAlready

Tarpon Springs, FL

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#5982
Jun 9, 2011
 

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Mybrotherskeeper wrote:
Hey, it turns out that Helen was 100% right about the cat being next to Tim's body. It was 29 degrees that night; cat was burrowed up next to Tim for warmth. He was in the fetal position; not on his back or face down. More keeps surfacing. So there was cat hair on him as well as dog hair.
This is the kind of stuff that makes me so irate that LE didn't take Helen more serious. When (IF) the whole story ever comes out, I wonder what else Helen will be 100% right about? Maybe LE should start talking to some of the people who have come forward through the years, like the kids who found Jill's bike, the witness from Alpena, etc...the list goes on and on. Even if "John" really didn't commit the crimes, he knows something.
CandyO

Rockford, IL

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#5983
Jun 9, 2011
 

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It makes you wonder if they didn't discount her because they 1) didn't want to do the foot work to follow through 2) She was too aggressive and her being correct about anything would make them look bad 3) She refused to play into their scenario de jour 4)Giving her credibility would require admitting to failures in their initial investigations.

It's a whole lot easier to stamp someone as "crazy" - a pain in the ass, whatever they chose than to take the time to check it all out.
EnoughAlready

Tarpon Springs, FL

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#5984
Jun 9, 2011
 

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I think you've about covered it CandyO. Sometimes I believe they would rather leave the case unsolved than admit Helen might be right. Kind of funny though how they all keep track of what she posts, lol.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

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#5985
Jun 9, 2011
 

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Everyone who has come forward in the past 10 years has been branded as either crazy, unstable, drug or drink-addled, emotionally overwrought, or simply wrong (without further inquiry). Portraits in the Snow is dismissed as sheer speculation. People who dare to keep asking questions or try to make sure their information is considered, have been met with hostility and contempt. Or, in Lilly's case, much worse.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

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#5986
Jun 9, 2011
 

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And I agree with Cody--what the hell with the Allen letter, CWW? Are you saying it was the final red herring that threw off the investigation back in the day? Or are you saying the botched sting at the gay bar was the final nail in the investigative coffin?

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