The Oakland County Child Killer
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

#5974 Jun 7, 2011
HD--phenomenal job on the 8 videos on youtube.
just-thinking

Jackson, MI

#5975 Jun 7, 2011
If everything Helen relates to us about John is true I think he is autistic, smart, and capable of at least playing a part in these killings. I also think he could easily turn off whatever it is that drove him to do this. If he had a close call involving something he fears (captivity is a mortal fear of all autistic people I know) he could force himself to never be in that situation again. Autism confuses many people, because they want to pin down what the person is capable of, what their potential is. Not possible. They could be poor at most things and have a special skill, they could be really not good at much at all, very good at a few things having the same theme, or seem typical, but have a hidden special skill or interest that they can call to use when they want to. Their potential in an area that really captivates them, whether through interest for fun, or any unexplained motivation that has meaning for them can be astronomical. Something else they are passionate about they may never be successful with and it might be a constant source of frustration. Many are seen as docile by everyone, but those that are closest to them. The people who raised him know what sets him off and his siblings would be keenly aware of what makes him tick. This kind of person really needs to be guided through life or at least checked up on often. They can be a danger to themselves and others, but never seem that way until the critical moment. All autistic people are different, but none of them want to appear that way. They can express their frustrations and their passions in extraordinary ways. Did John have childhood friends? Did he associate mostly with adults if given the choice? What the police say about him just being obsessed with the case could also be true if he had access to the information he provided. It could be very easy for him to remember every detail he has been presented with. I know Helen says that is not the case and I believe her.
What Lilly said about this being like pinning sand is true. It is just a theory as are my earlier postings about it possibly being five people with five jobs and different motives, but I tried to approach it by finding a theory that might fit the known evidence instead of fitting pieces into a theory. The most I can hope from stating that theory is that it causes someone with more complete information and more resources for checking things out to think a little differently and accept that the solution may be out of the box. It would be unrealistic to think I am even in the ballpark of being correct, but if it gets people thinking there is the chance it could lead to something helpful. Many people use the term Aspergers. I don't, because they are all autistic and Aspergers is just part of ASDs with nothing that really distinguishes it from autism. When I say autistic I am including the possibility that he may have what some people call Aspergers.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

#5976 Jun 7, 2011
I don't believe the Allen letter is true. And how convenient that it was sent to Dr. Danto, the very person who insinuated himself into this investigation? In an interview, Chris Busch's older brother stated that Chris moved back to his parents' house to be closer to his attorney and his psychiatrists [plural in transcript]. Danto was probably treating Chris and/or John H. Talk about the inside scoop.

So LE actually put some faith into this Allen letter and the rest of us are crazy freaks? Give me a break. F*ck Allen, Frank and the Vietnam War. And, if you ask me, Dr. Danto.

And damn right there were polaroids. That drawing of a boy screaming found in Chris Busch's room is probably based on a polaroid.

And, as someone pointed out to me, the sickening truth is that guys like Busch have that drawing up over their bed or in their bedroom for one reason. Gratification. Reliving it.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

#5977 Jun 8, 2011
Hey, it turns out that Helen was 100% right about the cat being next to Tim's body. It was 29 degrees that night; cat was burrowed up next to Tim for warmth. He was in the fetal position; not on his back or face down. More keeps surfacing. So there was cat hair on him as well as dog hair.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

#5978 Jun 8, 2011
Think this is all spam or that I am clueless? Wait and see.
cody

Detroit, MI

#5979 Jun 8, 2011
This is a lot to respond to ??
I won't even try.....
Wow, as usual.
Question ?? For Grayfield ?
Why the posts about the Allen letters again ?
Did something new turn up on that part of it ?
Allen sounds Cass related. Perhaps ? So, doesn't fit anymore, or does it ?
And I think we passed that by as far as suspects go. But, what motives would Danto have to fake it ? And who was in the bar that night that left ?
I know they never got his name or plate number ? But, there was a man there.
Maybe he was just in the bar and.....well, it was a gay bar....bought them the drinks ?
JustThinking is -- possibly on to a few suspect roles ? Not just one or two men.
Hastings......has he been cleared ? DNA cleared or just talked to ? Talking to someone doesn't clear them ? But, the DNA match - so far - matches someone who knew Busch ? Did Busch know Hastings ?
We knew about the cat on Tim.
Is this leading anyone anywhere ? It's like it's starting over from scratch ?
I'm lost at this point.....
I'm not the spammer by the way.....
Lilly's book, Keepers info, Helen's stuff....etc...who do you think it was ???
Is McKinney out ? Was he cleared or never looked at ?
Tired....Just tired.
cody

Detroit, MI

#5980 Jun 8, 2011
Ok, I did try....to respond to all....too much.
I'm listening to you.
cody

Detroit, MI

#5981 Jun 8, 2011
Grayfield wrote:
If you believe in the letter being true,Allen must have comitted suicide soon after the bar episode. Frank kept quiet and never abducted for murder again.
Why wasn't the man at the bar followed to learn his ID?
What kind of nationality is Allen, what people talk and write in the fashion of his letter and phone conversation?
He can't be American, so how were he and Frank together in VietNam? Is Allen Vietnamese, and hooked up with Frank while Frank was a G.I. Maybe Frank made it possible for Allen to get to the States somehow and then Allen was so thankful that he did any and everything for Frank.
He said there were poloriod photos, were they just souviniers, or were they sex pics for sale? Police say they never surfaced, but do you trust police?
Frank acted alone to seek revenge because he got nothing back for serving his country. Is that a real motive?
This episode ruined the entire investigation in 1977, the answers to all of the OCCK mystery simply lost forever.
Dude ?? What ?? Why ?
EnoughAlready

Tampa, FL

#5982 Jun 9, 2011
Mybrotherskeeper wrote:
Hey, it turns out that Helen was 100% right about the cat being next to Tim's body. It was 29 degrees that night; cat was burrowed up next to Tim for warmth. He was in the fetal position; not on his back or face down. More keeps surfacing. So there was cat hair on him as well as dog hair.
This is the kind of stuff that makes me so irate that LE didn't take Helen more serious. When (IF) the whole story ever comes out, I wonder what else Helen will be 100% right about? Maybe LE should start talking to some of the people who have come forward through the years, like the kids who found Jill's bike, the witness from Alpena, etc...the list goes on and on. Even if "John" really didn't commit the crimes, he knows something.
CandyO

Rockford, IL

#5983 Jun 9, 2011
It makes you wonder if they didn't discount her because they 1) didn't want to do the foot work to follow through 2) She was too aggressive and her being correct about anything would make them look bad 3) She refused to play into their scenario de jour 4)Giving her credibility would require admitting to failures in their initial investigations.

It's a whole lot easier to stamp someone as "crazy" - a pain in the ass, whatever they chose than to take the time to check it all out.
EnoughAlready

Tampa, FL

#5984 Jun 9, 2011
I think you've about covered it CandyO. Sometimes I believe they would rather leave the case unsolved than admit Helen might be right. Kind of funny though how they all keep track of what she posts, lol.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

#5985 Jun 9, 2011
Everyone who has come forward in the past 10 years has been branded as either crazy, unstable, drug or drink-addled, emotionally overwrought, or simply wrong (without further inquiry). Portraits in the Snow is dismissed as sheer speculation. People who dare to keep asking questions or try to make sure their information is considered, have been met with hostility and contempt. Or, in Lilly's case, much worse.
Mybrotherskeeper

Naperville, IL

#5986 Jun 9, 2011
And I agree with Cody--what the hell with the Allen letter, CWW? Are you saying it was the final red herring that threw off the investigation back in the day? Or are you saying the botched sting at the gay bar was the final nail in the investigative coffin?
TruthDude

San Bruno, CA

#5987 Jun 9, 2011
Grayfield wrote:
If you believe in the letter being true,Allen must have comitted suicide soon after the bar episode. Frank kept quiet and never abducted for murder again.
Why wasn't the man at the bar followed to learn his ID?
What kind of nationality is Allen, what people talk and write in the fashion of his letter and phone conversation?
He can't be American, so how were he and Frank together in VietNam? Is Allen Vietnamese, and hooked up with Frank while Frank was a G.I. Maybe Frank made it possible for Allen to get to the States somehow and then Allen was so thankful that he did any and everything for Frank.
He said there were poloriod photos, were they just souviniers, or were they sex pics for sale? Police say they never surfaced, but do you trust police?
Frank acted alone to seek revenge because he got nothing back for serving his country. Is that a real motive?
This episode ruined the entire investigation in 1977, the answers to all of the OCCK mystery simply lost forever.
Gray ufield,

I took the time to read over “Allen’s” note twice, and I believe I believe he is clearly NOT a Vietnamese national writing in English. I learned Vietnamese in my youth from being in an intermarried family with a Vietnamese aunt who taught me her language, and served as a linguist in that capacity. To my experience his structure and expression is not typical of such an ethnic Vietnamese immigrant, or grammer. Of note, in 1976/77 there was a representation of Vietnamese refugees in the United States from mid 1975; but something like 85 percent of them were in California, Texas / Louisiana, and the D.C. beltway area with very few in the Detroit area. Further, they were almost all first generation ESL speakers and writers; with this note perhaps too complex for such an individual.
My take on the letter is that it is purposely dumbed down with inconsistent grammatical mistakes, or uncommon ones. My observation and gut here tells me someone is playing games with it, as it leads to no substantive clues for action to assist the children themselves. The note has a continual theme of fear for self of the perpetrator, whereas it would seem “Allen” was in a position to free them, and himself. He claims he is not an actual co-perpetrator, and as if he is only an important witness to it all who feels guilty. I believe the note was a sick fraud from a person who wanted to feel self aggrandized. I've dealth with such sickos my whole career.
TruthDude

San Bruno, CA

#5988 Jun 9, 2011
Wow, I guess it is obvious I am trying to stay awake from the above with a few of my own typo mistakes. SORRY
just-thinking

Jackson, MI

#5989 Jun 10, 2011
I read an article last night that described how Danto and his family were once victim of a crime. It seemed like a traumatic experience and quite dramatic... Almost incredible. It may not pertain, but does color some background on the man. It is really very interesting and a quick read. The crime he was victim of is not the main theme, but it stands out as the memorable excerpt in my opinion.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/i...
Grayfield

Ashburn, VA

#5990 Jun 10, 2011
Thanks’ for the insight on the Vietnamese pattern of speech, and it makes me think even more of just what kind of writing is in that letter. The consensus of opinion is and has been that the Allen letter is a ruse or fake, and I waffle back and forth with the same opinion, but I still find it thought provoking and at times try to project the idea that it is legit, and if so the consequences were surely the ruination of the investigation. So much time has gone by and no conclusive answers to the mystery.
I also think that the case can already be solved, but cannot be proved, and legal factors that prevent it from going forward, such as written in the letter to the Kings’ by Cooper. If this is true then most likely Allen and Frank have nothing at all to do with it.
Bottom line, I think we will never have the answers.
cody

Detroit, MI

#5991 Jun 10, 2011
Allen ?
That we may never know. I agree. But, this case WILL be solved. Between what the King's have found and what the press has found, it's getting closer and closer to being solved.
I still don't understand why you brought the letter up again, C ?
There's more than a few friends of Alan McCoys' who think he might have wrote it.
He's dead, can't ask him.
The letter did describe what was happening in the Cass during that time. He also read and wrote on about a forth grade level. The begining of the letter sounds like him ? But, the second part doesn't at all. I'm pretty sure Moore had been in the service and he was nuts ? Then Bo ? Same thing. Maybe Alan thought they were killing kids ? Based on what he was seeing everyday, I can see why. But, we'll never know.
That letter didn't cost them the whole case ?? They followed up on a lead, most likely a fake lead, but they did try ? Even if Danto did write it, LE checked into it. What more could they do ? They did screw up by not taking names or car plates down. But, if the letter was a fake, it doesn't matter ? You think it was a fake, C ?
Maybe.....
But, this case didn't die with that letter.
People have been hiding the truth of this case for over 30 years. It's finally coming out.
cody

Detroit, MI

#5992 Jun 10, 2011
No, I really don't think Alan McCoy wrote the letter.....
It was probably some azzhole looking for attention.
But, it's not even being looked at right now ?
They have too much new info and evidence.
That letter has nothing to do with the solving of this case ??
Ok, spam me now......
EnoughAlready

Tampa, FL

#5993 Jun 10, 2011
Just a few thoughts...
1) I don't think the letter had anything to do with Vietnam.
2) Danto didn't write it....no proof...I just don't see where the pieces would fit....why would he? What would he gain??
3) I think it's far more likely that "Allen" knew something about the Cass Corridor freaks than the OCCK. And no, sorry, but I still don't buy the fact the two cases are connected. However, I DO think that the Cass Corridor Crew needs to pay for the hell they caused. They may not be the OCCK, but they aren't a whole lot better IMO. Scum is still scum!(and...if it solves the case than great! I really won't mind being wrong.)

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