Since: Mar 07

South Charleston, OH

#544 Jun 2, 2007
In case anyone doesn`t know what we`re talking about. We`re discussing that I came forward as a witmess for the defense for the Duvall brothers who were accused of killing missing hunters David Tyll and Brian Ognjan and smashing the hunters Ford Bronco. Another female witness testified to having seen the hunters barhopping earlier in the day at a bar and that there was a black and silver sticker on the left rear of the hunters truck. I also later saw the same sticker on the Bronco at the M`s brothers house after the hunters murder. I wish the hunters families the best and that their childrens killers would be caught. It`s just that I`m not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Duvall`s did it.
Bewildered

Lansing, MI

#547 Jun 2, 2007
DETROIT wrote:
In case anyone doesn`t know what we`re talking about. We`re discussing that I came forward as a witmess for the defense for the Duvall brothers who were accused of killing missing hunters David Tyll and Brian Ognjan and smashing the hunters Ford Bronco. Another female witness testified to having seen the hunters barhopping earlier in the day at a bar and that there was a black and silver sticker on the left rear of the hunters truck. I also later saw the same sticker on the Bronco at the M`s brothers house after the hunters murder. I wish the hunters families the best and that their childrens killers would be caught. It`s just that I`m not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Duvall`s did it.
Since DB does not like to give out all of the facts, just the one's that suit his purpose, they were convicted of these crimes and not solely on the testimony of the one female witness. DB is not telling everyone that one of the Duvall's own brothers had turned them in and several other family members.
I can see how DB the police would think you are nuts. You would do anything for attention. I think the words of a person's own relatives has ton's more weight in a case then the ramblings of a recovering amenisia person!!
Bewildered

Lansing, MI

#548 Jun 2, 2007
Grayfield wrote:
This one also referenced a You had a weird experience, and it gnaws away at you, but there really isn’t any thing that is unexplained, at least nothing significant. The cops know what is important and what isn’t. I’m not challenging you, but I still don’t buy into your story completely. We talked about what I thought was quite coincidental in you being present for this episode, and I can accept most of it. But another thing is making me question you though. I picture you in a booth next to HD and John, your position is facing Johns back, John is facing HD and they are conversing. You also have a friend with you during this, and he would be back to back with John, presumably you are conversing with your friend. Some how between two pairs of people conversing, you are able to pick up the conversation from the other booth, and in detail. And also see through your friend and John’s back to the table top on the next booth as John draws a map of a section of Troy. It really isn’t all that important to me, but that is a pretty good trick. Did your friend also pick up this story? Does he concur with what you have been posting and has he been to authorities along with you to provide corroboration?
Talk about Yackety, Yack, Yack....
You question how someone can hear or see something and try to picture it in that little pea sized object in your head you call a brain, yet Kdogg, you have tried for several years to get police and others to believe the outlandish story of Gary the super serial killer of the world!!! Then you start your HD bashing by claiming you have a letter from HD's suspect that clearly states he is not the killer but you have not the balls to show the proof of this. Just more rambling writings from the Dogg Pack. Seems the cat is finally starting to come out of the bag for the two of you. Quite frankly, in your and DB's attempt for noterity and fame with your far fetched stories, the two of you should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice, since that is what the two of you have been doing.
I guess you have forgotten the age old saying, what comes around goes around. The two of you just might get that fame you are looking for but might not be exactly how you pictured it. It could be the two of you headling the news, and instead of seeing Ms. Hilton in an orange jumpsuit, it might very well be the two of you.

Since: Mar 07

AOL

#550 Jun 3, 2007
Bewildered wrote:
<quoted text>
Talk about Yackety, Yack, Yack....
You question how someone can hear or see something and try to picture it in that little pea sized object in your head you call a brain, yet Kdogg, you have tried for several years to get police and others to believe the outlandish story of Gary the super serial killer of the world!!! Then you start your HD bashing by claiming you have a letter from HD's suspect that clearly states he is not the killer but you have not the balls to show the proof of this. Just more rambling writings from the Dogg Pack. Seems the cat is finally starting to come out of the bag for the two of you. Quite frankly, in your and DB's attempt for noterity and fame with your far fetched stories, the two of you should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice, since that is what the two of you have been doing.
I guess you have forgotten the age old saying, what comes around goes around. The two of you just might get that fame you are looking for but might not be exactly how you pictured it. It could be the two of you headling the news, and instead of seeing Ms. Hilton in an orange jumpsuit, it might very well be the two of you.
You're an idiot.
I'm not Kdogg, you fool!
I don't know much about Gary and at this point I don't care about him.
I believe DB is Dan, and I don't know much about him. He's in his own realm and I have no part in it.
I have never even heard of a Ms Hilton.
You need to go take a nap, maybe you can have a dream about orange jumpsuits, just like you pictured it.

Since: Mar 07

AOL

#551 Jun 3, 2007
Here’s an old HD posting.

I have recived many e-mails from readers of this site....saying they still don't understand John's motive-Mabe this will help-John was living in what should have been a well to do community-yet his mother had to babysit to make ends meet,he felt inadaquate socially,he could never get a girl friend and wound up doing odd jobs -like dishes...he couldn't get a higher education,he felt cheated out of his rightful place in society...his father had money,or so he thought because he owned 2 homes,...but let the family struggle financialy...John attended and all boys Catholic school,which made him feel more out of place--something happen at that school,a boy was found dead,and there were rumors of sexual also a boy that was his friend,but who he was jealous of-fell off a water tower to his death-John was present when it happen...Just prior to the first OCCK murder...John's first girl friend that he had hoped to marry-dump him,because he was broke,with no prospects--It was then he started thinking more about the injustices social and financial class system and how he was a victim of it all--He wanted to cause the upper class DEEP and PERMANET PAIN-the only way to do it was to strike at their children...each killing gave him a sense of power...and significance....and intellectual superiority--Yet he some how thought he was saving the children.....At least that is what John told me.....WHAT DO YOU THINK????


I think what should have been a well to do community was without question just that, a well to do community. Bloomfield Township MI.

One line says he could never get a girlfriend, then down to a later line you talk of a girlfriend he had.I think that doesn’t make sense.

I think the rest of “motive” is contrived excuses by someone trying to buffalo someone else. In this case John duping HD.

Since: Mar 07

United States

#552 Jun 3, 2007
Bewildered wrote:
<quoted text>
Since DB does not like to give out all of the facts, just the one's that suit his purpose, they were convicted of these crimes and not solely on the testimony of the one female witness. DB is not telling everyone that one of the Duvall's own brothers had turned them in and several other family members.
I can see how DB the police would think you are nuts. You would do anything for attention. I think the words of a person's own relatives has ton's more weight in a case then the ramblings of a recovering amenisia person!!
From what I was told by the Duvall`s when I first met them and rode there to testify this was because someone was cheating with someone elses wife and they wanted to get even. A 3rd version of an alleged murder with NO DNA on the brush chopper that was supposed to have chopped up 2 human bodies so finely that they could be fed to pigs. No DNA in the pig troughs. No DNA anywhere. My sisters son used to feed pigs for a farmer and he said the same thing seveal other experts on pigs said. Pigs would only eat human remains if they were really hungry and it would have taken a couple weeks to eat two humans remains. Then what about the FACT that witnesses were TOLD what to testify. The Duvall family didn`t just tell me that, I saw it and heard it myself WHEN THE WITNESS REFUSED TO READ HIS SCRIPT that the police wanted him to say. What about the fact that I and another woman both saw the same sticker on the hunters truck. The jury was never allowed to hear that. They were only allowed to hear that I had tried to come forward as a witness in more than one murder trial. Also they never heard that four witnesses signed statements supported my testimony in the Deanna Seifert case, and that this had been verified by the sheriffs department with the witnesses after Andy Trombleys conviction. Noone ever brought up that Trombley was often over at serial killer Leslie Alan Williams house. They let the jury hear only what they wanted them to hear. Furthermore if I was looking for personal attention my real name would ghave been out there a long time ago and I`d have my own website just like Helen does. That tells you who wants attention and who just wants justice.
Bewildered

Lansing, MI

#553 Jun 3, 2007
Grayfield wrote:
Here’s an old HD posting.
I have recived many e-mails from readers of this site....saying they still don't understand John's motive-Mabe this will help-John was living in what should have been a well to do community-yet his mother had to babysit to make ends meet,he felt inadaquate socially,he could never get a girl friend and wound up doing odd jobs -like dishes...he couldn't get a higher education,he felt cheated out of his rightful place in society...his father had money,or so he thought because he owned 2 homes,...but let the family struggle financialy...John attended and all boys Catholic school,which made him feel more out of place--something happen at that school,a boy was found dead,and there were rumors of sexual also a boy that was his friend,but who he was jealous of-fell off a water tower to his death-John was present when it happen...Just prior to the first OCCK murder...John's first girl friend that he had hoped to marry-dump him,because he was broke,with no prospects--It was then he started thinking more about the injustices social and financial class system and how he was a victim of it all--He wanted to cause the upper class DEEP and PERMANET PAIN-the only way to do it was to strike at their children...each killing gave him a sense of power...and significance....and intellectual superiority--Yet he some how thought he was saving the children.....At least that is what John told me.....WHAT DO YOU THINK????
I think what should have been a well to do community was without question just that, a well to do community. Bloomfield Township MI.
One line says he could never get a girlfriend, then down to a later line you talk of a girlfriend he had.I think that doesn’t make sense.
I think the rest of “motive” is contrived excuses by someone trying to buffalo someone else. In this case John duping HD.
You are the idiot but then again, someone with the IQ level of a small child like yourself would have a hard time making sense of anything.
You can sit a lie all you want. Obviously you do not listen to the news or read papers or you would understand when I said Ms. Hilton, since she is the rich girl that is going to jail.
You remind me of a line from Forest Gump. Stupid is as stupid does because it is very clear that you are a stupid person, KDogg!!
Bewildered

Lansing, MI

#554 Jun 3, 2007
DETROIT wrote:
<quoted text>From what I was told by the Duvall`s when I first met them and rode there to testify this was because someone was cheating with someone elses wife and they wanted to get even. A 3rd version of an alleged murder with NO DNA on the brush chopper that was supposed to have chopped up 2 human bodies so finely that they could be fed to pigs. No DNA in the pig troughs. No DNA anywhere. My sisters son used to feed pigs for a farmer and he said the same thing seveal other experts on pigs said. Pigs would only eat human remains if they were really hungry and it would have taken a couple weeks to eat two humans remains. Then what about the FACT that witnesses were TOLD what to testify. The Duvall family didn`t just tell me that, I saw it and heard it myself WHEN THE WITNESS REFUSED TO READ HIS SCRIPT that the police wanted him to say. What about the fact that I and another woman both saw the same sticker on the hunters truck. The jury was never allowed to hear that. They were only allowed to hear that I had tried to come forward as a witness in more than one murder trial. Also they never heard that four witnesses signed statements supported my testimony in the Deanna Seifert case, and that this had been verified by the sheriffs department with the witnesses after Andy Trombleys conviction. Noone ever brought up that Trombley was often over at serial killer Leslie Alan Williams house. They let the jury hear only what they wanted them to hear. Furthermore if I was looking for personal attention my real name would ghave been out there a long time ago and I`d have my own website just like Helen does. That tells you who wants attention and who just wants justice.
DB, you are an absolute idiot!! Since it took 18 years to bring them to justice, I think they had at least your 2 week period for the pigs, but I can see how someone like you can't understand that. You only want people to hear your side of the story and no one elses. Pay close attention, their own brother turned them in and I guess you cannot understand that it is possible for another truck to have the same sticker. As far as the other murder investigation, I'm sure they thought you were a crack pot then just like you are now. If your information was sooo compelling, then they would have not been convicted. Why did it take you 18 years to come forward? Oh I forgot, that little crutch that you use to of having amensia and the voices in your head.
Face it, your story then did not fly and the police thought you were a joke, just like they thought you and KDogg were a joke with the OCCK and they will still think your a joke with your new information of Gary the super serial killer of more than a hundred children!!! LMAO!! Your story is starting to unravel at the seems and you cannot keep it together. Is that why you and your little friend Grayfield are trying to pump HD for more information? You two are pathetic!!! What is going to happen when everyone finds out that you have been lying and that you know absolutely nothing more than what people have heard on the news about JBR? What are you going to do then?
Helen Dagner

AOL

#555 Jun 3, 2007
Grayfield~Why is it you have no research of your own? Yet you continually re-post my items-now I have no idea what your problem really is...with me...and it really doesn't matter..anyone who reads a post of yours..can see that you have one with me-What I would like to know...is what do you think you are adding to the memory of these children & or the solving of these cases?...You are a joke!..If you only knew what the victims families -think of your post..I think you would quit while your ahead...I really do.Now for this statment you made-{think the rest of “motive” is contrived excuses by someone trying to buffalo someone else. In this case John duping HD.}...I can tell you for sure..I do not feel duped by John..but thank you for your concern..You know and this goes for Dan & his statement also-It is Ludicrous..to think that anyone would put the coverage into the Occk cases -that I have for 16 years and then a couple of punks come along..and try to destroy that!..Well lots of luck on that..you have your work cut out for -I have been around along time...I have quite a large readership..they have been with me many years...but then I don't suppose-you guys know anything about loyalty...and less about the Occk cases...I think what upsets you both is my site may carry my name..But your being blinded by the header-S-U-C-C-E-S-S...So you try to play the I need attention game..someone must need attention..or why would you be on the web..talking about the Occk cases..when it is so obvious...you know nothing...

Since: Mar 07

United States

#556 Jun 3, 2007
Bewildered wrote:
<quoted text>
DB, you are an absolute idiot!! Since it took 18 years to bring them to justice, I think they had at least your 2 week period for the pigs, but I can see how someone like you can't understand that. You only want people to hear your side of the story and no one elses. Pay close attention, their own brother turned them in and I guess you cannot understand that it is possible for another truck to have the same sticker. As far as the other murder investigation, I'm sure they thought you were a crack pot then just like you are now. If your information was sooo compelling, then they would have not been convicted. Why did it take you 18 years to come forward? Oh I forgot, that little crutch that you use to of having amensia and the voices in your head.
Face it, your story then did not fly and the police thought you were a joke, just like they thought you and KDogg were a joke with the OCCK and they will still think your a joke with your new information of Gary the super serial killer of more than a hundred children!!! LMAO!! Your story is starting to unravel at the seems and you cannot keep it together. Is that why you and your little friend Grayfield are trying to pump HD for more information? You two are pathetic!!! What is going to happen when everyone finds out that you have been lying and that you know absolutely nothing more than what people have heard on the news about JBR? What are you going to do then?
I forgot more than you ever knew!!! What`s there to pump Helen for? She doesn`t know anything about the OCCKillings, not even that the bodies weren`t all found near police stations.LMAOROFL

Since: Mar 07

AOL

#557 Jun 3, 2007
Bewildered wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the idiot but then again, someone with the IQ level of a small child like yourself would have a hard time making sense of anything.
You can sit a lie all you want. Obviously you do not listen to the news or read papers or you would understand when I said Ms. Hilton, since she is the rich girl that is going to jail.
You remind me of a line from Forest Gump. Stupid is as stupid does because it is very clear that you are a stupid person, KDogg!!
You should try to be more original with your choice of words. I called you an idiot because you don't want to let go of the idea that you think I'm Kdogg.
I have no idea what you are talking about re: Ms Hilton or what it might have to do with me. Your responses to me show how dull you are.

Since: Mar 07

AOL

#558 Jun 3, 2007
Helen Dagner wrote:
Grayfield~Why is it you have no research of your own? Yet you continually re-post my items-now I have no idea what your problem really is...with me...and it really doesn't matter..anyone who reads a post of yours..can see that you have one with me-What I would like to know...is what do you think you are adding to the memory of these children & or the solving of these cases?...You are a joke!..If you only knew what the victims families -think of your post..I think you would quit while your ahead...I really do.Now for this statment you made-{think the rest of “motive” is contrived excuses by someone trying to buffalo someone else. In this case John duping HD.}...I can tell you for sure..I do not feel duped by John..but thank you for your concern..You know and this goes for Dan & his statement also-It is Ludicrous..to think that anyone would put the coverage into the Occk cases -that I have for 16 years and then a couple of punks come along..and try to destroy that!..Well lots of luck on that..you have your work cut out for -I have been around along time...I have quite a large readership..they have been with me many years...but then I don't suppose-you guys know anything about loyalty...and less about the Occk cases...I think what upsets you both is my site may carry my name..But your being blinded by the header-S-U-C-C-E-S-S...So you try to play the I need attention game..someone must need attention..or why would you be on the web..talking about the Occk cases..when it is so obvious...you know nothing...
I've done considerable research on you HD.
I don't think I'm adding anything to the solving of the OCCK crimes, It has never been my intent to do so.
I am not trying to destroy anything to do with you or your work on the OCCK case, I encourage you to continue. You have in fact done a great service for many in shedding light on this mystery.
You should stop trying to tie me with others, I stand alone.
The most of what I am attempting to do is here on Topix, some posts have been blocked but they are not all that important. Read them and come down off your high horse and respond responsibly, then we can agree to disagree.
CandyO

South Ozone Park, NY

#559 Jun 5, 2007
Can't believe I am even addressing this... Dan, does Angel remember Gary gripping her? And was she ever uncomfortable around him before that occurance?

Since: Mar 07

Ann Arbor, MI

#560 Jun 5, 2007
CandyO wrote:
Can't believe I am even addressing this... Dan, does Angel remember Gary gripping her? And was she ever uncomfortable around him before that occurance?
She remembers it vaguely. She was only 5. Gary didn`t come around that often. Things are looking up against Gary though. Mainly his habit of grabbing kids on WED & SUN and in 3 cities in a row will cause these cops to investigate. After the OCCK killings 8/9 kids in Iowa went missing on WED/SUN with back to back kids missing WED 8-1-82 & SUN 8-5-82. Second kid was a paperboy, then the next victim there in 84 was a paperboy. Three cities in a row along US 80. Then in Missouri all the kids missing are in 3 in a row patterns in the whole state with 9 of the first 13 kids missing on WED/SUN. In Kentucky 6/11 missing WED/SUN,then in Arkansas 7/13 missing WED/SUN with back to back kids missing WED 8/13/97 and SUN 8-17-97. The missing in Nebraska form two exact lines intersecting into Zodiac`s cross. In 2006 43% of the kids disappeared on SUN. In 2007 50% disappeared there on WED/SUN. In 2007 in Ohio 29% disappeared WED, in Maryland 27% in 2007 on WED, in Florida in 2006 28% on WED that`s over 1 in 4 on WED, then in FL in 2007 26% on Sunday. Then when this interests police, they`ll investigate and find that the Fire Department came to Gary`s house when he carbon monoxided Jane Allan, and they`ll find that the two days that Gary went missing when on loan to an Indiana company are the same two exact days that girls disappeared there. When police simply investigate they`ll find this grave Gary left in this mans yard in Ypsilanti Michigan and I believe from what he said that I can find his two mass graveyards in Ypsilanti. Many of the early victims, including Kim King should be in that graveyard, as well as kids from multiple states. Things should hit the fan soon.

Since: Mar 07

Ann Arbor, MI

#561 Jun 5, 2007
Should say 43% in New Jersey on Sunday in 2006 and 50% on WED/SUN in 2007. Statistically kids missing any day should be 1/7 or 14% with less kids missing on Tuesday and Wednesday, not more kids missing on WED. Gary`s addicted to WED because he got paid then and got off early and didn`t work SUN. That`s why all the OCCK kids were abducted WED/SUN as was Jane Allan.
CandyO

South Ozone Park, NY

#562 Jun 6, 2007
If I may ask, how many children do you have? All girls? Is Angel the only child (of yours)upon which Gary displayed this behavior?

Is Angel a nickname - Like shortened for Angela? And, if I recall, you said Gary never came back to your home after that. But, did you file a police report then?
CandyO

South Ozone Park, NY

#563 Jun 6, 2007
Sorry Dan, more questions. Can you tell me how old Gary is now? Did he ever work with a partner ( I feel like you may have mentioned one, but don't remember and can't seem to find it)? And finally, would you be willing to tell me which LE agencies are interested in Gary?

Since: Mar 07

Eden, WI

#564 Jun 6, 2007
CandyO wrote:
Sorry Dan, more questions. Can you tell me how old Gary is now? Did he ever work with a partner ( I feel like you may have mentioned one, but don't remember and can't seem to find it)? And finally, would you be willing to tell me which LE agencies are interested in Gary?
Gary was born in May 1949. That`s why when he killed the two girls Robim Cornell and Lisa in Cape Coral in MAY 1990, then molested them after dead OCCK style, before he could remove the bodies the mother came home and he fled taking a watch that said Happy Birthday. He wanted the Happy Birthday watch because the murders were in May and his birthday is that month. I have received permission to send my information to someone with authority to do something. This will include information about the murder of Jane Allan, two girls that Gary killed in Indiana in 1987 when doing construction there,and the locations of two mass graveyards in Ypsilanti and another grave in a mans yard along a road in Ypsilanti. I will also send them maps showing the 3 in a row pattern in multiple states and the wed/sun pattern with back to back wed/sun disappearances in Iowa and Missouri. Gary has partnered with David Norberg,learning to tie knots from him and killing several kids with him to form a satanic message in their names, with Paul B in the mid 1980`s, from which I heard the name Zarzycki, a girl missing in Eastpointe and Kovi, a body police found in Ypsilanti before they could bury it, and Gary mentioned doing B&E`s with Michael, then later killing him (Helgoth), Gary claims to have been involved with Fleet W in the planning of Jonbenet`s murder.

Since: Mar 07

Eden, WI

#565 Jun 6, 2007
CandyO wrote:
If I may ask, how many children do you have? All girls? Is Angel the only child (of yours)upon which Gary displayed this behavior?
Is Angel a nickname - Like shortened for Angela? And, if I recall, you said Gary never came back to your home after that. But, did you file a police report then?
Gary`s dad died when he was 12. Gary was raised by his mother who had short hair and Gary`s only ever girlfriend Jane who rejected Gary had short hair. Our oldest daughter Sassy got along fine with Gary, but Angel was shy and never formed a relationship with Gary. Gary has a problem killing people that he knows well. It surprised me that Gary so easily killed Helgoth. No, we never filed a police report.
CandyO

South Ozone Park, NY

#566 Jun 7, 2007
When was the last time you saw Gary? Was it the day he gripped your daughter or have you had contact since then? If I may ask, who is Beth? You once mentioned her - is she another victim or someone else?

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