The Oakland County Child Killer
Helen Dagner

Buffalo, NY

#3762 Dec 26, 2009
Part #4-A second lab report talks about several 22 caliber fired cartridge casings.(Was there more than one bullet or shell casing recovered at the Busch home on the date in question?) The police report doesn't indicate how many items were taken in to evidence. The gun in question a 22 LR caliber Squires Bingham (Kmart) Model 20, semiautomatic rifle. There is no indication in the police report who this gun belonged to.

The one page Autopsy Protocol, General Information Sheet, indicates cause of death as being a “gun shot wound of head.” It doesn't indicate where the bullet entered Chris's head or where or if it exited. The report is in error, as it puts the date of death as 11-20-1978 and the time as 9:30 a.m. Even the police officers could tell that the body of Christopher Busch had been in the bed “a few days”. And what about the news papers stacking up at the door. Even the toxicology report indicates that the “speciman was decomposed” The toxicology report also states that Chris had a blood alcohol of 0.41%(that is four times the legal limit.) No other drugs where detected. So then the report might also be wrong when it says the Manner of Death was “SUICIDE”.
Helen Dagner

Buffalo, NY

#3763 Dec 26, 2009
Ok-Here we go-This is printed on Department Of State Police Stationary-It is the Laboratory Report-Evidence reportedly placed in Firearms Locker-on 12/22/78 at 10:30 AM-Evidence removed from Locker on 12/26/78 at #:00 AM by Robert H. White-Reference-Suicide-Victim -Christopher Busch-Evidence Recived:-1-.22 L.R. caliber Squires Bingham {K-Mart} Model 20,semiautomatic rifile serial #23-891528-Tag#6040 attached.-1-Pressure sealed plastic bag,containing:-1-Lead bullet.-Marked #1 by Undersigned.------1 Coin envelope containing:-1.22 {L.or LR.-Caliber"F"-fired cartridge case-{Marked #2 by undersigned{F}-----1"prin t} envelope,containing:--!-.22 {L.or LR caliber "F" fired cartridge case-Marked # 3 by undersigned}-1-"Print " evelope,containing:-!-.22 {L.or LR calibber "F" fired cartridge case {Marked #4-by Undersigned}.---1"Print " envolope,containing:-1-,22{L.o r LR} caliber "F" fired cartridge case-{Marked #5 by undersigned--------1-"Pri nt envelope containing-10-,22LR caliber "F" caridge{3 used for test}---RESULTS OF EXAMINATION:--The one {1} metal jacket lead bullet{ Item #1}and the {4}{L or LR} caliber "F" fired cartridge cases --{Item #2 thru 5} are identified as having been fired in the -,22 L.R. caliber Squires Bingham {K-Mart},Model 20,semiautomatic rifle Serial #23-891528. Robert H. White-Laboratory Specialist-1/19/79-Long Gun File
CandyO

Portage, IN

#3764 Dec 26, 2009
Helen Dagner wrote:
CandyO...You said-"John's father had an apartment in B'ham believed to be owned by the company he worked for and we were trying to find out if the 555 location was where the apartment was located."WHAT?....I never heard this before-ever??-and could you give us the site name on this comment"but I found a place that says they also manufactured rifle barrels too"....as I have never heard of the Hastings barrels being on anything-but a shotgun...
I think the Hastings barrel info as being made for rifles is incorrect. I can't find anything other than the one place. Nowhere else does it say anywhere that Hastings made barrels for rifles. I asked a local gun dealer last night and he said he had never heard of a rifle with a Hastings barrel either.

As for the other...I will email you.
Reasoning

Warren, MI

#3765 Dec 26, 2009
It was 18 years ago today that I heard the discussion at Big Boy. It was one of the strangest and weirdest days I will ever experience so I remember it very clearly. We drove to Alpena that day and I would be going to Big Boy with a friend around dusk. I really coundn't make heads or tails out of what I was about to hear. And when they left the restaurant that night, I would spend another half hour thinking about it and that was it. It was so far beyond any reality that I never gave it another thought after that evening until many years later.

Who would ever guess that 18 years later I would be writing about it and still wondering about it today. I don't think a day passes where I don't give it a thought.
flipover

New Baltimore, MI

#3767 Dec 26, 2009
Shillicious wrote:
The 555 is a high rise apartment complex with the two lower stories being store fronts.
If you took the street, Bowers, that went directly under the 555 towards Adams, John McKinney's art gallery was right there on that street I believe, just a few hundred yards from 555.
May be relavent, maybe not ----
I know this address is out there for John McKinney but,
I have 1024 Haynes in BH, he owned 1516 S. Cranbrook Rd BH., at the same time. I have a Yaw Gallery at 550 Woodward BH. They did glass, clay, fibre, metal, and clay.
2 more on WW, a Garlelick's, and Gwynn's. No doubt not related.
But, I found it interesting that McKinney had two, and the Yaw's address was closed to 555 .........

Peace please.
Helen Dagner

Buffalo, NY

#3769 Dec 26, 2009
Reasoning...I take it -It's Our Anniversary ....yet we have never met....Some will wonder how that is posible....I have never told you this...But-I and others appriciate your coming forward...Your a great guy!!!...and NO One can say other wise...Sorry for what you have had to endure..but thanks for never giving up...and Happy 18th Anniversary!...and God willing -this will all be over soon!!!
Reasoning

Warren, MI

#3770 Dec 27, 2009
Thanks Helen. I don't have a bone to pick with anyone nor do I owe anyone any favors. I feel so strongly that the truth must be known. The truth is your discussions took place and it was extremely bizarre as I remember it very clearly. No matter what the outcome of John may be on the OCCK, they better be taking a serious look at him. Some of the things John said are very errie thinking about them now 18 years later and knowing the crimes are not solved.

Since: Sep 07

Utica, MI

#3771 Dec 27, 2009
Helen Dagner wrote:
and God willing -this will all be over soon!!!
Helen, do you really believe there is any hope that the OCCK will be solved?
xbham

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#3772 Dec 27, 2009
[Testimony of] Richards, Gerald S., Jackson State Prison, Jackson, Mich [starts p.34]
http://www.archive.org/details/protectionofch... [DL on left side of page]
Helen Dagner

Buffalo, NY

#3773 Dec 27, 2009
Reasoning asked-"Helen, do you really believe there is any hope that the OCCK will be solved?{Answer}-Looks doubtful-No one is really working on it-They all talk a good story....but the facts show otherwise....they just can not bring themselves...To ask the question..that should have been asked-30 plus years ago ....

anon

Ashburn, VA

#3774 Dec 27, 2009
xbham wrote:
[Testimony of] Richards, Gerald S., Jackson State Prison, Jackson, Mich [starts p.34]
http://www.archive.org/details/protectionofch... [DL on left side of page]
> "Protection of children against sexual exploitation : hearings before the Subcommittee to Investigate Juvenile Delinquency of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Ninety-fifth Congress, first session, Chicago, Ill.-May 27, 1977, Washington, D.C.-June 16, 1977"

Interesting Senate hearing, xbham. In mid 1977 too. This guy Richards brings up the name of Fransis Sheldon. Crappy exploitation of young boys for the selfish pleasure (and money) of a large sub culture of men across the country. Creeps.

But the OCCK kids were kidnapped and later killed, this is the puzzling aspect of this crime, and I wonder still if it is a pedophile type of crime at all. Seems like a radical departure from boy lovers and boy photo collector type behaviour. Two of the kids were girls, and we are told, they were not sexually abused.
Helen Dagner

Buffalo, NY

#3775 Dec 27, 2009
Cww-said-"But the OCCK kids were kidnapped and later killed, this is the puzzling aspect of this crime, and I wonder still if it is a pedophile type of crime at all. Seems like a radical departure from boy lovers and boy photo collector type behaviour. Two of the kids were girls, and we are told, they were not sexually abused."----Thanks for recognizing -the fact that this may not be a pedophile type of crime...all indications-that I have found thru advanced research-these passed 18 years have indicated the girls were not molested...and this goes back to interviews with Robertson SR.-Tobias..ect.-What happen here to change this story-was 5 years ago-a Det.started telling his contacts that they were-this is the same Det. that got himself fixated on Busch...sad this happened...but that is one of the reasons -that the Inter net can and does do such damage to cold cases-one person or another-hears something like this then they go and post it and others pick it up-and re-post it-and they have nothing else to compare it to-as they have not done any real research of there own..and then the rumor is off and running-and it is hard for people who are in the loop and know...to chase down these lies and then when you do correct them-there is always the one person-who decides it makes a better post-if they were molested...after all they have heard this from a DET......
cyber

Mableton, GA

#3776 Dec 28, 2009
To those of who have emailed me personally - Thank You. Everyone have a Great and Healthy New Year.
flipover

New Baltimore, MI

#3777 Dec 28, 2009
Question ?
Didn't one of the girls have a pubic hair in their mouth ?

And to CWW - what's with the new - strange - questions ??
You said John Mckinney was bi-sexual. Are you re-thinking he might be involved ?? He was a chaplain too ......
He also became a chaplain because of his past ?
What past was he trying to make up for ?
You also have your own theory on who killed him, so are you looking at a different scenario ?
You said he might be the killer, but probably not.
Are you re-thinking this or do you have another motive ?
You were quiet until the Busch thing and the new addresses ??
Yes, still bitter.......but if you know something-spill it.
flipover

New Baltimore, MI

#3778 Dec 28, 2009
Sheldon is on pages 40 and 44.
He was to put Mr. Richards child through college ?
But, he's part of the three people involved in the school up north here in Michigan ?
So, police have all this then.
They have it to read. And the cases of all those men. Sheldon, Grossmen, Keller,......... Busch and Greene ?? Is this where you're heading ?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#3779 Dec 28, 2009
flipover wrote:
<quoted text>
May be relavent, maybe not ----
I know this address is out there for John McKinney but,
I have 1024 Haynes in BH,
My bad, it was Haynes not Bower, but again, just a few hundred yards from the 555 building and a road that was direct access to the 555 building.
Bewildered

Auburn Hills, MI

#3780 Dec 29, 2009
Helen Dagner wrote:
I was so excited I forgot to answer this-Cww asked"Does anybody know if there were any pellets or buck shot recovered from the crime scene. And does anybody know if a shotgun with rifling can lead to identification through ballistics testing?"---There was NO pellets or buck shot recovered...and yes-today they could identifi rifling through ballistics..
Helen, correct me if I am wrong, but in the book, Wolf in Sheeps clothing, it states that police did recover pellets from the scene.
Helen Dagner

Buffalo, NY

#3781 Dec 29, 2009
Bewildered-No it doesn't say that-in fact it questions...If the Occk was a Ballistice Expert...Who knew enough to pick the casings up...Lol...I will have to look...but first I will have to find the book...
Dan in Detroit

Shreveport, LA

#3782 Dec 29, 2009
Helen Dagner wrote:
Bewildered-No it doesn't say that-in fact it questions...If the Occk was a Ballistice Expert...Who knew enough to pick the casings up...Lol...I will have to look...but first I will have to find the book...
Helen. Why do all of your posts now say that they originate in Michigan? Did you move? Happy Holidays!!!
xbham

Saint Clair Shores, MI

#3783 Dec 29, 2009
"Interesting Senate hearing, xbham. In mid 1977 too." [Especially so if Richards knew Bush and I believe he did.]

"This guy Richards brings up the name of Fransis Sheldon" [Shelden is quite an oily character. Oddly, he has a "Cass Corridor" connection albeit in the wrong context and time frame.]

"But the OCCK kids were kidnapped and later killed, this is the puzzling aspect of this crime, and I wonder still if it is a pedophile type of crime at all. Seems like a radical departure from boy lovers and boy photo collector type behaviour. Two of the kids were girls, and we are told, they were not sexually abused."[I don't know what "type" of crime this is. What I do believe is that during the summer of 1976 Richards began working with federal authorities making everyone he'd come in contact with through his "business" radioactive. That, it seems, would make it less likely that Bush would have the opportunity to commit these crimes.]

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