Jonbenet's grave gives a clue?

Posted in the JonBenet Ramsey Forum

Fiona

Teignmouth, UK

#1 Jul 18, 2014
Apologies if this has been discussed a lot, but I'd love to discuss this. I read that Jonbenet's parents had her grave inscribed with her date of death being 25th Dec. Is this true? Surely with John claiming they found her in the morning of 26th, it (in a way?) shows they knew more about the time of death than they'd originally let on?
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#3 Jul 18, 2014
As Christians, I should think they would not want to associate their daughter's death with Christmas Day. Leave that last day that she lived a joyous day of celebration. The last good memory they had of her. And why would he include "the world" in his statement. It was one person that killed his child.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#4 Jul 18, 2014
Just Wondering wrote:
As Christians, I should think they would not want to associate their daughter's death with Christmas Day. Leave that last day that she lived a joyous day of celebration. The last good memory they had of her. And why would he include "the world" in his statement. It was one person that killed his child.
And to think we thought Patsy was the drama queen! John beats all with that statement, don't you think?
Heloise

Boldon, UK

#5 Jul 19, 2014
Hi LE. Hope you are well. I agree with you about the hyperbole and drama. You would normally attribute that to Patsy.

On another thread, Father Brown talks about John mentioning a bird fluttering around him at Patsy,s grave. He does seem to have taken on Patsy's role of purveyor of purple prose.

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#6 Jul 19, 2014
Heloise wrote:
Hi LE. Hope you are well. I agree with you about the hyperbole and drama. You would normally attribute that to Patsy.
On another thread, Father Brown talks about John mentioning a bird fluttering around him at Patsy,s grave. He does seem to have taken on Patsy's role of purveyor of purple prose.
Hi Heloise, hope you are well also ~ Maybe he was channeling her, LOL. We know he has a flair for the dramatic, just look at his books.
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#7 Jul 19, 2014
Have any of you given thought to perhaps it was John after all that was the guilty party? Perhaps he had used the dire threat of international kidnappers to terrify Patsy and Burke to get them to Michigan. They would be cautioned to keep quiet until the kidnappers called him that day. By that time, he may have successfully gotten the body from the home to a dump site (horrible to think about) on the pretense of dropping off the ransom. Someone was molesting Jonbenet. He was the more likely candidate of the two males in the home. Linda Arndt certainly seemed to think he was involved according to her feeling that afternoon when he found the body.

Or perhaps there was a violent mishap between Burke and Jonbenet and If John had been molesting her, he came up with the idea to make it look as if a pedophile had entered the home that night.

No theory seems to fit conclusively. Oh that the BPD had handled everything differently that morning.

Sorry this is off topic. But if John has a flair for the dramatic...

Since: Aug 09

Round Rock, TX

#8 Saturday Sep 20
Occam's razor must prevail now. The simplest answer when all else fails to explain something, the simplest answer is the one.
In other words if you break it down to the smallest scenario and don't imagine abuse by John or Burke or some friend who was involved in some pedophile ring, etc or the half brother flying in to abuse her and flying back out, or the Santa Claus somehow knowing how to get in and out...

To me the simplest explanation is an accident on Christmas night. JB was the favored child and it created hate between the kids. Burke resented her and wanted her gone. She got more toys than he did and when they went downstairs to play after eating pineapple...he hit her in the head or possibly shoved her but good. you think it can't happen? It happens everyday and not just to kids and people panic.

instead of calling 911 and explaining what happened between the kids, Patsy stupidly made up some incredible story. Maybe Burke had abused JB in the past and Patsy thought it might come out. Whatever was the reason for the made up kidnapping story, once Patsy started it and she could not back track.

And yet at some point I believe she revealed all to John and to Alex Hunter. No one knows for sure what happened in the grand jury, but the DA was reluctant to go forward. Why? I think Patsy would have been convicted of manslaughter just on the note alone and her fibers being in the duct tape. But no one wanted that, BECAUSE PATSY DIDN'T DO IT, BURKE DID. And no one wanted a trial of a child.
robert

Yellowknife, Canada

#9 Sunday Sep 21
John Rs account of the bird fluttering around him at Patsy's grave didn't bond well with me-- JR is getting old and senile -- Maybe he will let something slip yet.
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#10 Monday Sep 22
Rangette wrote:
Occam's razor must prevail now. The simplest answer when all else fails to explain something, the simplest answer is the one.
In other words if you break it down to the smallest scenario and don't imagine abuse by John or Burke or some friend who was involved in some pedophile ring, etc or the half brother flying in to abuse her and flying back out, or the Santa Claus somehow knowing how to get in and out...
To me the simplest explanation is an accident on Christmas night. JB was the favored child and it created hate between the kids. Burke resented her and wanted her gone. She got more toys than he did and when they went downstairs to play after eating pineapple...he hit her in the head or possibly shoved her but good. you think it can't happen? It happens everyday and not just to kids and people panic.
instead of calling 911 and explaining what happened between the kids, Patsy stupidly made up some incredible story. Maybe Burke had abused JB in the past and Patsy thought it might come out. Whatever was the reason for the made up kidnapping story, once Patsy started it and she could not back track.
And yet at some point I believe she revealed all to John and to Alex Hunter. No one knows for sure what happened in the grand jury, but the DA was reluctant to go forward. Why? I think Patsy would have been convicted of manslaughter just on the note alone and her fibers being in the duct tape. But no one wanted that, BECAUSE PATSY DIDN'T DO IT, BURKE DID. And no one wanted a trial of a child.
For some reason, Patsy had to insinuate a pedophile into the situation. Perhaps the garrotte was used in order to cover strangulation marks left by Burke's hands? And the molestation was incorporated to give the garrotte a reason for being used. It is all fantastical.

I, too, think there was hostility between the two children. But I also think there could have been some sexual dallying between the children and Patsy had suspected that for quite a while. Maybe she even came upon the scene and struck out at the two, causing Jonbenet to lose her balance and fall striking her head when she landed. Incest is a taboo in society--but especially in our Christian faith. Patsy definitely would have wanted to cover that up.

But I think Burke as the culprit makes the most reasonable conclusion.
Steve Eller

Brooklyn, NY

#12 Monday Sep 22
Rangette wrote:
Occam's razor must prevail now. The simplest answer when all else fails to explain something, the simplest answer is the one.
In other words if you break it down to the smallest scenario and don't imagine abuse by John or Burke or some friend who was involved in some pedophile ring, etc or the half brother flying in to abuse her and flying back out, or the Santa Claus somehow knowing how to get in and out...
To me the simplest explanation is an accident on Christmas night. JB was the favored child and it created hate between the kids. Burke resented her and wanted her gone. She got more toys than he did and when they went downstairs to play after eating pineapple...he hit her in the head or possibly shoved her but good. you think it can't happen? It happens everyday and not just to kids and people panic.
instead of calling 911 and explaining what happened between the kids, Patsy stupidly made up some incredible story. Maybe Burke had abused JB in the past and Patsy thought it might come out. Whatever was the reason for the made up kidnapping story, once Patsy started it and she could not back track.
And yet at some point I believe she revealed all to John and to Alex Hunter. No one knows for sure what happened in the grand jury, but the DA was reluctant to go forward. Why? I think Patsy would have been convicted of manslaughter just on the note alone and her fibers being in the duct tape. But no one wanted that, BECAUSE PATSY DIDN'T DO IT, BURKE DID. And no one wanted a trial of a child.
I have not made up my mind but this is a terrific post. Especially regarding admissions to Alex Hunter.
Steve Eller

Brooklyn, NY

#13 Tuesday Sep 23
BrotherMoon wrote:
Patsy killed JonBenet deliberately. No one else was involved. There was no staging for police. Everything that was done was done by Patsy for Patsy as part of a psychotic fantasy revolving around an imagined relationship with a supernatural being, the fear of judgment by that God and the fear of death. What people mistakingly take as staging for police had symbolic meaning known only to Patsy. This includes the ransom note. There were two aspects to what was done to the body: the ligatures were suspension devices, the body was posed and viewed and then taken down, placed in the small room, wrapped and the duct tape applied to set the kidnapping scenario up in Patsy's mind. The ransom note is full of the ideas that swirled in Patsy's mind that night and plagued her for many years.
The goal was not to kill JonBenet but to make an Angel out of her.
Patsy herself said after the funeral "JonBenet is in Heaven with God awaiting her mother's arrival and it won't be long." Patsy put JonBenet in that heaven to complete the fantasy and in her mind assure her life after death.
As the dedication in DOI says:
Wherever we go ...
Whatever we do ...
[We're gonna go through it together ...]
And the beat goes on...

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#14 Tuesday Sep 23
Steve Eller wrote:
<quoted text>
And the beat goes on...
So much Kool Aid and so many people drinking it...
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#15 Wednesday Sep 24
Rangette wrote:
Occam's razor must prevail now. The simplest answer when all else fails to explain something, the simplest answer is the one.
In other words if you break it down to the smallest scenario and don't imagine abuse by John or Burke or some friend who was involved in some pedophile ring, etc or the half brother flying in to abuse her and flying back out, or the Santa Claus somehow knowing how to get in and out...
To me the simplest explanation is an accident on Christmas night. JB was the favored child and it created hate between the kids. Burke resented her and wanted her gone. She got more toys than he did and when they went downstairs to play after eating pineapple...he hit her in the head or possibly shoved her but good. you think it can't happen? It happens everyday and not just to kids and people panic.
instead of calling 911 and explaining what happened between the kids, Patsy stupidly made up some incredible story. Maybe Burke had abused JB in the past and Patsy thought it might come out. Whatever was the reason for the made up kidnapping story, once Patsy started it and she could not back track.
And yet at some point I believe she revealed all to John and to Alex Hunter. No one knows for sure what happened in the grand jury, but the DA was reluctant to go forward. Why? I think Patsy would have been convicted of manslaughter just on the note alone and her fibers being in the duct tape. But no one wanted that, BECAUSE PATSY DIDN'T DO IT, BURKE DID. And no one wanted a trial of a child.
What about the indication that there was prior sexual abuse? Do you think Patsy might have convinced the DA that there was no former abuse and that the damage done was only from the cover up that night? Would that have been enough to appease Hunter?

“Hey”

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#16 Friday Sep 26
Wherever we copy....
Whatever we paste....
We're gonna have to read the same post, again.....again.....and again.....
BrotherMoon wrote:
Patsy killed JonBenet deliberately. No one else was involved. There was no staging for police. Everything that was done was done by Patsy for Patsy as part of a psychotic fantasy revolving around an imagined relationship with a supernatural being, the fear of judgment by that God and the fear of death. What people mistakingly take as staging for police had symbolic meaning known only to Patsy. This includes the ransom note. There were two aspects to what was done to the body: the ligatures were suspension devices, the body was posed and viewed and then taken down, placed in the small room, wrapped and the duct tape applied to set the kidnapping scenario up in Patsy's mind. The ransom note is full of the ideas that swirled in Patsy's mind that night and plagued her for many years.
The goal was not to kill JonBenet but to make an Angel out of her.
Patsy herself said after the funeral "JonBenet is in Heaven with God awaiting her mother's arrival and it won't be long." Patsy put JonBenet in that heaven to complete the fantasy and in her mind assure her life after death.
As the dedication in DOI says:
Wherever we go ...
Whatever we do ...
[We're gonna go through it together ...]

“If life gives you melons”

Since: Nov 06

You might be dyslexic

#17 Saturday Sep 27
JimmyWells wrote:
Wherever we copy....
Whatever we paste....
We're gonna have to read the same post, again.....again.....and again.....<quoted text>
Priceless!

Since: Aug 09

Round Rock, TX

#18 Tuesday Sep 30
Just Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the indication that there was prior sexual abuse? Do you think Patsy might have convinced the DA that there was no former abuse and that the damage done was only from the cover up that night? Would that have been enough to appease Hunter?
Yes I think she could have convinced anyone of anything. This was a very successful person who had been a national beauty queen, married a very successful man and had gorgeous children. She certainly would expect to be believed and I believe she either covered for Burke who was a little hot head. He had already hit JB with a golf club in the FACE when they were younger by several years. So you tell me, would Alex Hunter believe that Burke accidentally killed/injured JB especially if told about the prior accident?

yes he would believe it. And he also would prefer not to bring this scenario of a child injuring a sibling and the part about the mom covering the whole thing up. Seriously, who could think up such a tale as Patsy thought up? That ransom novel needs to win an award for fantastical thinking...

I think John was not in on it, but quickly that morning he was told what happened. Why do I say this? Because on the 911 tape, John says to Burke, "we are not talking/speaking to you..." Now why would you say that to a child who is asking questions about their baby sister AND why did they say Burke was in bed during the wHOLE thing?

The simplest answer is always best and detectives are taught not to go to far afield. the first morning, the clues were all there for Linda Arnt. And she knew something was so "off". But the further into it they got, the more the police screwed it up. So no one would believe the cops anymore because they didn't protect the crime scene. Letting the dad discover the body? Are you kidding me?

Most people would have a heart attack or pass out if they discovered their child's dead body in THEIR OWN HOUSE. But not these two. That was because they already knew she was dead.

alex Hunter probably did the right thing if it truly was Burke who did it. Patsy did the worst thing by covering it all up. But no one meant to kill that child. No one.
Becky

Sunset, LA

#19 Wednesday Oct 1
It was Patsy!!!!!!!
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#20 Wednesday Oct 1
Who was sexually abusing Jonbenet then? If there was evidence of previous abuse, would Alex Hunter let that go even if he were convinced that the child's death was caused accidentally by Burke. At that point, there were actually two crimes evidenced. Murder and chronic sexual abuse. Wouldn't it take more than a weeping or snarling Miss West Virginia to subvert justice?

SrokSilamite1969

Louisville, CO

#21 Thursday Oct 2
Anyone know if John Ramsey had a mistress while stationed at Subic Bay, PI? Anyone know if this mistress had a son by John Ramsey who now resides on the East Coast?
Just Wondering

Oak Hill, WV

#22 Saturday Oct 4
I think the police investigated the "mistress" angle fairly well. Besides, if I were the disenfranchised son of a millionaire, I think I would kidnap his young son instead of his young daughter as retribution for his neglect.

We would also have to wonder how he managed to pull the sum of $118,000 for ransom out of thin air.

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