Posted in the JonBenet Ramsey Forum
#1 Oct 13, 2013
The DNA could have come from anyone and anywhere. It does NOT prove that an "unknown person" killed JonBenet. The Ramseys could still very well be involved & I believe they are. The "evidence" supporting the intruder theory is a bunch of waste based on heresy evidence. I want actual solid proof and from what I have seen, there seems to be much more stacked against the family than an intruder. The broken window theory is a load. There were undisturbed spider webs found on the window and grate in front of the broken basement window. Experts concluded that out of the many handwriting samples, Patsy was the closest of any suspects recorded. The practice ransom note was found thrown away in a waste basket. Inform me why any intruder would feel comfortable enough in an intruders home to write not only one, but two ransom notes? Three pages long at that. Throughout the entire investigation the parents remained emotionless and impersonal to the death of their own six year old daughter. Patsy played Jeckle and Hyde through-out her interviews while John Ramsey's first thought was to get a lawyer after miraculously finding his daughter dead in the "train room" within the maze of their basement. White said it was the first door Ramsey checked. Even through Detective Ardnt, in the home with the family during the discovery, directed him & Fleet White to check the home from TOP to bottom. It's ridiculous for anyone to assume they as innocent. I could go on and on with the evidence against them. They are wealthy manipulators with friends in high places. The above stated FACTS come out of Steve Thomas's published book. Feel free to take a look at it.
“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”
Since: Jan 08
Not Boulder, Co.
#2 Oct 13, 2013
The practice ransom note was found thrown away in a waste basket.
finding his daughter dead in the "train room"
#3 Oct 13, 2013
The wine cellar, my mistake, but the wrong naming of the room has nothing to do with any of the above I just stated...
#4 Oct 13, 2013
Good job Taylur. Those are all key points. Another damning fact brought out by Chief Kolar, John Ramsey's only job that morning was to wait for the phone call from "the kidnapper." I would be focused like a laser beam on that phone, BUT NO, Ramsey was "distracted" AWAY from the phone and had to RUN to answer it! THEN he left for an hour and a half, approximately 10:40 a.m. to 12:10 p.m. without telling Arndt where he was going? WHAT IF THE KIDNAPPER HAD CALLED? NO ONE with a missing child in a REAL kidnapping scenario would LEAVE AWOL without telling the police where they would be. HE DIDN'T WANT HER TO KNOW WHERE HE WAS GOING TO BE.
Since: Jan 12
#5 Oct 13, 2013
The "practice note" wasn't found in the trash. It was on a page, still attached, to the RN notepad....BUT, a card from Bill McReynolds was found torn-up in JBR's bedroom trash can.
#6 Oct 13, 2013
Exactly! Don't quote me on this, but I believe his excuse was that he was initially checking the mail. Ardnt said she lost track of him within the chaos which is completely understandable given the circumstances. She was the only cop present! White stated that he had in fact checked the basement earlier that morning, but that when he had looked inside the wine room he didn't see anything around 6 am that morning. White then explained that when the two men went down to the basement around 1pm that day, John Ramsey cried out BEFORE turning on the light within the room. Which sounds fishy considering Fleet's eyes would have been more adjusted to the darkness of the room than Ramsey's.
Since: Jul 10
#7 Oct 13, 2013
GEEZE There was NO note from Bill McReynolds ever found in the trash.
Jonbenet was 6 and could not even read.
It was a note from the pocket of the stuffed Santa Bear. A bear Patsy couldn't remember being given to Jonbenet after a performance in a shopping mall.
They had so much crap they couldn't keep track of it.
Since: Jan 12
#8 Oct 13, 2013
From Steve Thomas deposition, Wolf v. Ramsey:
Q. Was there a note from Bill McReynolds found torn up in JonBenet's trash can in her room?
A. I have heard that.
Q. Did you ever check to see if that were true?
A. I think I was told that it was some sort of card.
Q. From Bill McReynolds?
Q. Was it ever fingerprinted, do you know?
A. Detective Trujillo would know that. I don't.
Q. Did you ever try to find out?
Q. Did you ever try to find out what the card said?
A. I recall at one time. I don't now.
#9 Oct 13, 2013
I've never heard of the that note being in the trash can. They cleared him. He was extremely cooperative with the police which is more than I can say for the family, but there was A LOT of evidence within this case. I really wish I could sit down and go through actual police collected evidence and statements myself.
Since: Jan 12
#10 Oct 13, 2013
Patsy Ramsey, 1998:
13 THOMAS HANEY: Here is another
14 topic. Do you know anything about a Christmas
15 poem that was written out and was torn up and
16 thrown in the trash?
17 PATSY RAMSEY:(No response.)
18 TRIP DeMUTH: You know the poems
19 you wrote and put in the notebook about Santa
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, right.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: Was one torn up and
23 thrown away; do you remember anything like that?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I think I
25 hurriedly put one together the night -- it was
1 usually a kind of a last-minute thing. I don't
2 remember throwing one away.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: I think something
4 like that was seen in the trash, or one of the
5 wastebaskets. Do you remember anything about
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I mean I did it
8 on the computer I think. I mean -- I mean, I am
9 just guessing. Maybe it was a copy that, not a
10 final draft, you know.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
Since: Jan 12
#11 Oct 13, 2013
John Ramsey, 1998:
3 Now these photographs again are
4 unnumbered. And the photographs which are
5 blowups of other photographs that we have,
6 but what I would like to do is just show
7 them to the camera here and it's just a
8 letter and I will let Mr. Ramsey describe
9 what this letter is, if I can.
10 And there is just two
11 different photographs and again these are
12 blowups and they are not very high quality
13 photographs, but sometimes all we have is
14 a videotape record to get these
15 photographs from, so we are trying to take
16 these photos from a videotape. And I will
17 just show you that, these two photos.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: These both the
19 same pretty much, I guess.
20 LOU SMIT: Yes, they are
21 pretty much the same. What do you see in
22 those photographs, Mr. Ramsey?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: I am not really
24 sure. I guess it looks like Christmas, I am not
25 sure. Message that's kind of written in a fancy
1 -- printed in fancy letter style.
2 LOU SMIT: Have you ever seen
3 a letter like that?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: It doesn't look
5 familiar. I can't tell.
6 LOU SMIT: I can tell you
7 that --
8 JOHN RAMSEY: It says
9 somebody loves you all. Merry Christmas.
10 LOU SMIT: I can tell you
11 that these items were found in the trash
12 can in your daughter's room and it was
13 torn up.
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Do you know
15 what the word before "loves" is? Somebody
16 loves you all?
17 LOU SMIT: I am sure that
18 that has been looked at very closely. It
19 appears to be a Santa Claus letter.
20 JOHN RAMSEY:(MULTIPLE
21 SPEAKERS). Friend, enjoy your holidays,
22 Christmas (INAUDIBLE). Well, it doesn't
23 look like anything I have seen before.
24 LOU SMIT: Okay.
25 JOHN RAMSEY: And I don't
1 know what it would be doing, you know,
2 torn up in -- looks like it's torn down
3 here, maybe. On the right side.
4 LOU SMIT: You have no reason or no
5 idea how it may have gotten there?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
7 LOU SMIT: Okay. Again these are
8 two photographs for the camera. Okay. That's
9 all I have for now.
#12 Oct 13, 2013
Then how do you explain the DNA commingled with her blood? That DNA has to be from the killer and it matches the other DNA, including the touch DNA found on the thermal pants waste, the partial markers of DNA found under her fingernails as well. If the DNA profile wasn't commingled with her blood it would still be suspect since the profile matches the markers of DNA under her nails where she would have likely scratched her attacker. IMO the DNA profile found COMINGLED WITH HER BLOOD makes it iron clad.
#13 Oct 13, 2013
"DNA testing appears to indicate all blood evidence belongs to JBR. There is "intermingled" DNA with JBR's bloodspots on the panties, but investigators believe the "foreign" DNA may be saliva and no one has reported it to be blood."
Where have you gotten your information from Biz? While you are correct that a foreign male DNA was found underneath her fingernails, that does not build a case. There is so much speculation as to why touch DNA is utterly useless that I'm not even going to explain why I don't buy into it. You may look that up on your own time. Nothing in this case is "iron clad." If you want to go down that route, fibers from PATSY'S sweater were found "comingled" among the duct tape covering JB's mouth, the blanket, and her clothing. There is a reason the jury voted to indict the parents. In my opinion they were either know what happened and did nothing to stop it or did it themselves. If you want to talk DNA and fingerprints, why did Patsy lie to the police about feeding JB pineapple just hours before her death? Both Burke's and Patsy's fingerprints were on the bowl.
#14 Oct 13, 2013
Quote: "Then how do you explain the DNA commingled with her blood?"
That the DNA was there BEFORE the blood. That DNA hasn't matched ANYONE in 17 years AND there is NO WAY whoever could have written that ransom note will all the personal references and knowledge of Ramsey's bonus that very year, that SMALL amount of people were not KNOWN TO POLICE for YEARS.
#15 Oct 13, 2013
Why does Pastsy never 'KNOW' anything? In these interviews & questionings it's always "I don't know" or "I can't remember". Shouldn't that be a red flag in itself? Patsy wasn't an imbecile. She knew everything she claimed not to.
And she also knew what happened that night.
#16 Oct 13, 2013
I agree. What REALLY struck a nerve with me was when she referred to JB as "that child." It's like she didn't care at all. In numerous interviews she maintained a weepy composure, but lacked the sincerity. If I were in her position I would have done ANYTHING for the police in order to find out who killed my child. Some people give the excuse that the Boulder police and media made them out to be the bad guys and that's why they weren't corporative. But they should have all been working towards the same goal of finding out who murdered the 6 year old. Politics and money seem to be the bases for many of the decisions made throughout the case.
Since: Sep 11
Boksburg, South Africa
#17 Oct 14, 2013
That DNA, to the best of my understanding, was not scattered all over the crotch of her panties, it was specifically mixed with two spots of her blood. To believe that, purely by coincidence, she happened to bleed in the two exact same spots where foreign male DNA had previously been deposited, is beyond the realm of reason.
It is very frustrating that that DNA hasn't been matched in all these years, but that doesn't rule out that someone close to the family could have been involved up to his eyeballs, though he may not be the actual killer. We cannot, should not, give someone like Fleet White, for example, a free pass just because his DNA doesn't happen to match. There's too much about him which warrants a much, much loser look and it's inconceivable to me that this wasn't done. He could have been heavily involved in orchestrating the whole thing without even being present at the crime scene.
Since: Jul 10
Crimson Tide Bulldozed
#18 Oct 14, 2013
Lynette, it is far easier to understand how two minute specs of blood happened to fall on top of scattered DNA, than to believe the only two places on the panties that had both blood and DNA were THOSE two spots –and the rest of the panties were void of either blood or DNA – which is basically what you are trying to say but doing it poorly.
Quit dragging FW into this again. You do it every time you have nowhere else to go with the conversation. It is libel, irresponsible, malicious, and reportable. You don't have to like it, but you need to live with it!
Since: Sep 11
Boksburg, South Africa
#19 Oct 14, 2013
Shouldn't it be also be a red flag that Fleet White, in his deposition, became afflicted with a sudden bout of amnesia? It's surprising he remembered his own name!
Since: Jul 10
Crimson Tide Bulldozed
#20 Oct 14, 2013
There is not one thing in this post of yours that is factual and correct.
It does NOT “HAVE” to be from the killer.
A partial profile cannot match a full profile.
She did “NOT” scratch her attacker unless her attacker had no skin (LOL) for she has no skin under her nails.
There is nothing “iron clad” about this DNA or they would have sourced it by now and they haven’t!
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