Did JonBenet Have Drugs In Her System?

Posted in the JonBenet Ramsey Forum

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“Sarah Palin, Go Home!”

Since: Aug 09

Bexley, Ohio

#1 Sep 28, 2009
Some posters, most notably Wattbc, have theorized that JB was given drugs. Others have said no screening for drugs was performed. The autopsy report indicates otherwise:

<<<AUGUST 17--This is the JonBenet Ramsey autopsy report released by the Boulder County coroner on August 13, 1997. While a Thailand immigration official has said that John Karr, who was arrested yesterday in Bangkok for the girl's murder, reportedly claimed to have drugged the child before raping her, the autopsy notes that a "blood drug screen" was negative.>>>

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet...

So, we can put that to rest. JB was NOT drugged.
Biz

Tampa, FL

#2 Sep 29, 2009
CSIEngland wrote:
Some posters, most notably Wattbc, have theorized that JB was given drugs. Others have said no screening for drugs was performed. The autopsy report indicates otherwise:
<<<AUGUST 17--This is the JonBenet Ramsey autopsy report released by the Boulder County coroner on August 13, 1997. While a Thailand immigration official has said that John Karr, who was arrested yesterday in Bangkok for the girl's murder, reportedly claimed to have drugged the child before raping her, the autopsy notes that a "blood drug screen" was negative.>>>
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet...
So, we can put that to rest. JB was NOT drugged.
I am pretty much hoping that JBR was drugged before this horrible torture was done to her. GHB was very popular as a date rape drug at the time. It would be my first guess on what the perpetrator would use since it makes the person who takes it forget what happened to them. I found this article about GHB not showing up in autopsy reports and even some drug screenings. This article was from South Africa, but I am assuming it would apply here in the states as well. Some drugs cannot be detected at autopsy without a specific test for that particular drug

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php...

“Sarah Palin, Go Home!”

Since: Aug 09

Bexley, Ohio

#3 Sep 29, 2009
Yes, I know some date rape drugs aren't detected on a toxicology screen, but I think the chances of one of those being given to JB are slim and none. It would be terrible to die from being choked - by a scarf, but an article of clothing, by a cord, by anything, but JB was unconscious, by the first episode of choking or by the head blow for most of what went on. She wasn't really tortured. It's terrible that she was murdered, yes, but she wasn't tortured. The crime scene was staged, by intruder or Ramsey, after she was unconscious.
Biz

Tampa, FL

#4 Sep 29, 2009
CSIEngland wrote:
Yes, I know some date rape drugs aren't detected on a toxicology screen, but I think the chances of one of those being given to JB are slim and none. It would be terrible to die from being choked - by a scarf, but an article of clothing, by a cord, by anything, but JB was unconscious, by the first episode of choking or by the head blow for most of what went on. She wasn't really tortured. It's terrible that she was murdered, yes, but she wasn't tortured. The crime scene was staged, by intruder or Ramsey, after she was unconscious.
She tried desperately to get the strangulation device away from her neck. I would say that is torture. Her arms were also tied together in order to manipulate them while the perpetrator violated her. I would say that constitutes torture as well. In fact I can't think of a crime of a child this age involving more torture than this one.
GHB was THE DRUG of that decade. It is a drug that might be given to people who are sadistically tortured and filmed...as I believe could be the case in this murder.
Capricorn

Brooklyn, NY

#5 Sep 29, 2009
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
She tried desperately to get the strangulation device away from her neck. I would say that is torture. Her arms were also tied together in order to manipulate them while the perpetrator violated her. I would say that constitutes torture as well. In fact I can't think of a crime of a child this age involving more torture than this one.
GHB was THE DRUG of that decade. It is a drug that might be given to people who are sadistically tortured and filmed...as I believe could be the case in this murder.
Absolute nonsense. Had she been desperately trying to get that off her neck, this case would have been solved. Do you have any idea how much "stuff" would have been found under her nails? Rubbing burns on her hands and fingers? Her hand would have been bruised and bloody, not to mention the damage she would have done to the skin surrounding her neck, face, chin, etc.

What a crock

The only thing sadistically torturous are your theories and posts!

I have this beautiful bridge in Brooklyn that I'm selling. For you today Biz, I will give you a great price.

You are the perfect customer
Biz

Clearwater, FL

#6 Sep 29, 2009
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolute nonsense. Had she been desperately trying to get that off her neck, this case would have been solved. Do you have any idea how much "stuff" would have been found under her nails? Rubbing burns on her hands and fingers? Her hand would have been bruised and bloody, not to mention the damage she would have done to the skin surrounding her neck, face, chin, etc.
What a crock
The only thing sadistically torturous are your theories and posts!
I have this beautiful bridge in Brooklyn that I'm selling. For you today Biz, I will give you a great price.
You are the perfect customer
There were abrasions on her neck. You draw your conclusion I will draw mind. That little girl fought for her life

“Sarah Palin, Go Home!”

Since: Aug 09

Bexley, Ohio

#7 Sep 29, 2009
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolute nonsense. Had she been desperately trying to get that off her neck, this case would have been solved. Do you have any idea how much "stuff" would have been found under her nails? Rubbing burns on her hands and fingers? Her hand would have been bruised and bloody, not to mention the damage she would have done to the skin surrounding her neck, face, chin, etc.
What a crock
The only thing sadistically torturous are your theories and posts!
I have this beautiful bridge in Brooklyn that I'm selling. For you today Biz, I will give you a great price.
You are the perfect customer
Agree. There is absolutely no sign that she struggled and every sign that she did not.

“Sarah Palin, Go Home!”

Since: Aug 09

Bexley, Ohio

#8 Sep 29, 2009
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
There were abrasions on her neck. You draw your conclusion I will draw mind. That little girl fought for her life
Sure there are abrasions, but there are no DEFENSIVE abrasions and not enough material under her nails to indicate even a slight struggle. No way did she fight for her life. She didn't even struggle at all.
Capricorn

Brooklyn, NY

#9 Sep 29, 2009
CSIEngland wrote:
<quoted text>
Agree. There is absolutely no sign that she struggled and every sign that she did not.
Aw shucks, I guess you won't be inquiring about my bridge :)
Biz

Clearwater, FL

#10 Sep 29, 2009
CSIEngland wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure there are abrasions, but there are no DEFENSIVE abrasions and not enough material under her nails to indicate even a slight struggle. No way did she fight for her life. She didn't even struggle at all.
She obviously scratched her attacker. There is foreign male DNA under her nails.

“Sarah Palin, Go Home!”

Since: Aug 09

Bexley, Ohio

#11 Sep 29, 2009
Capricorn wrote:
<quoted text>
Aw shucks, I guess you won't be inquiring about my bridge :)
No, but not because I don't like the price. I really don't need one. ;)
thewhitewitchone

United States

#12 Sep 29, 2009
Biz wrote:
<quoted text>
She obviously scratched her attacker. There is foreign male DNA under her nails.
You must be kidding. If she had scratched her attacker, she'd have had his SKIN under ner nails and she did not.
The DNA under her nails can not even be positively matched with the other DNA. Quit grasping at straws.
Biz

Clearwater, FL

#13 Sep 29, 2009
thewhitewitchone wrote:
<quoted text>
You must be kidding. If she had scratched her attacker, she'd have had his SKIN under ner nails and she did not.
The DNA under her nails can not even be positively matched with the other DNA. Quit grasping at straws.
It cannot be discounted. I am under the belief that there were not enough markers to compare conclusively but there must have been some that matched. Otherwise they would report evidence of TWO DNA'S not just one.
Ponine

Houston, TX

#14 Oct 22, 2009
You guys need to stop arguing over the details. The point of the matter is that a child has died and her killer was never found. How can she rest peacefully until we find the people or person who did this? I've heard all the controversy stories around her parents, but honestly, what would have been their motive? If it was done by another person/persons, what was their motive? Here are details, in fact, that are important as to how to find Jonbenet's killer, but fighting over whether she was drugged or struggled will not really help.

But of course I am thinking as I write this: the reason she may have not, as evidence suggests, struggled: was it someone she knew or trusted? Which brings us back to the parents, but now I am contradicting myself.

“Sarah Palin, Go Home!”

Since: Aug 09

Bexley, Ohio

#15 Oct 22, 2009
Ponine wrote:
You guys need to stop arguing over the details. The point of the matter is that a child has died and her killer was never found. How can she rest peacefully until we find the people or person who did this? I've heard all the controversy stories around her parents, but honestly, what would have been their motive? If it was done by another person/persons, what was their motive? Here are details, in fact, that are important as to how to find Jonbenet's killer, but fighting over whether she was drugged or struggled will not really help.
But of course I am thinking as I write this: the reason she may have not, as evidence suggests, struggled: was it someone she knew or trusted? Which brings us back to the parents, but now I am contradicting myself.
Answers lie in details.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#16 Oct 22, 2009
Ponine wrote:
I've heard all the controversy stories around her parents, but honestly, what would have been their motive?
In the annals of murder it is often brought up that the killer says something to the effect of "she is mine", i.e. now that the person is dead the person is totally possessed by the killer.

I think this was Patsy's motive. JonBenet had become an object to Patsy that she manipulated to participate in her private fantasies. The control that Patsy exercised over the object became total when Patsy gave herself the right to take JonBenet's life and declare her to be an Angel in heaven with a God awaiting her mother's arrival.

The growing child with a developing self identity was a threat to Patsy. As an Angel JonBenet was completely under Patsy's control to fantasize as she wished.

“Sarah Palin, Go Home!”

Since: Aug 09

Bexley, Ohio

#17 Oct 22, 2009
Ponine wrote:
You guys need to stop arguing over the details. The point of the matter is that a child has died and her killer was never found. How can she rest peacefully until we find the people or person who did this? I've heard all the controversy stories around her parents, but honestly, what would have been their motive? If it was done by another person/persons, what was their motive? Here are details, in fact, that are important as to how to find Jonbenet's killer, but fighting over whether she was drugged or struggled will not really help.
But of course I am thinking as I write this: the reason she may have not, as evidence suggests, struggled: was it someone she knew or trusted? Which brings us back to the parents, but now I am contradicting myself.
You know, a prosecutor doesn't have to supply a motive when prosecuting a case, but of course, a motive sure strengthens a case.

What could the motive have been for John and Patsy to kill JB and stage the scene? Very few people think anyone, intruder OR parent actually wanted JB to die. Some people theorize that Burke might have hit her not meaning to kill her and John and Patsy staged the scene to cover up for him. Since her was under ten, he couldn't be charged with ANY crime in Colorado, but he would have been taken off to Children's Services and the Ramseys would have looked bad to others.

Others theorize that someone (probably Patsy) lost her temper and killed JB, then immediately regretted it, so staged the scene. JB should never have been so much as struck, no kid should be, but by all accounts, she could be a trying kid and was very spoiled, though that doesn't justify murder or abuse - ever.

Some think JB was not taken to a hospital after an accident because or prior sexual abuse.

Most likely, Burke or Patsy lost his or her temper with JB, hit her, then immediately regretted it, but knew their would be legal consequences, so staged the scene to look like a kidnapping gone wrong/sex crime.

The parents could have had motives, but no one really knows.

“Sandy Stranger killed JonBenet”

Since: Jan 08

Not Boulder, Co.

#18 Oct 22, 2009
CSIEngland wrote:
<
Most likely, Burke or Patsy lost his or her temper with JB, hit her, then immediately regretted it, but knew their would be legal consequences, so staged the scene to look like a kidnapping gone wrong/sex crime.
You have said Patsy was normal and functioned well. I presume you think JR was normal too. How does a normal person pull a cord that tight around their child's neck? How does a normal person violate their child's corpse? How does a normal person wipe urine off their child's corpse and then redress it with urine stained clothes?

How do normal people do what was done to JB?

At least in my theory I provide for what was done to JB with the idea that Patsy was mentally ill. I can see a mentally ill person doing all that but not a normal one.

“Sarah Palin, Go Home!”

Since: Aug 09

Bexley, Ohio

#19 Oct 22, 2009
That's one of the weakest and nuttiest things you've ever said. If you don't know that loving parents and "normal" people can do terrible things, you've been living in a cave - alone.

I didn't say she was "normal," whatever "normal" is. I've stated that, in my opinion, she was neurotic. But NOT psychotic. I think John was rather cold, or could be cold if the situation demanded it.

People without MPD/DID, and people who have been perceived as "normal" do horrible things all the time. Sad, but true. Susan Smith pushed her two adorable boys into a lake and watched them drown because her no good lover didn't want kids. She was judge sane. No psychosis. No MPD/DID. And that's one example among many.

When it comes to saving their own behind, people will do a LOT. And the FACTS in this case show the killer of JB did care for her. Why not just take her out and throw her in the woods somewhere? Because they cared that her remains have a decent burial. And it goes on and on.
Biz

Tampa, FL

#20 Oct 22, 2009
BrotherMoon wrote:
<quoted text>
You have said Patsy was normal and functioned well. I presume you think JR was normal too. How does a normal person pull a cord that tight around their child's neck? How does a normal person violate their child's corpse? How does a normal person wipe urine off their child's corpse and then redress it with urine stained clothes?
How do normal people do what was done to JB?
At least in my theory I provide for what was done to JB with the idea that Patsy was mentally ill. I can see a mentally ill person doing all that but not a normal one.
Normal people don't do that! That is why her parents couldn't possibly have done this crime.

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